Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?
--
--
Jim K

On 31/07/2018 08:11, Jim K wrote:
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

The problem then would be the bits destroying the screw heads. I would
rather damage the bits that the screws.

On 31/07/2018 08:24, Broadback wrote:
On 31/07/2018 08:11, Jim K wrote:
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest
brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

The problem then would be the bits destroying the screw heads. I would
rather damage the bits that the screws.

+1
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 31/07/2018 08:24, Broadback wrote:
On 31/07/2018 08:11, Jim K wrote:
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest
brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

The problem then would be the bits destroying the screw heads. I would
rather damage the bits that the screws.

No, you are better off with the bits made for impact drivers which fail
by brittle fracture. Then (provided you notice) you scrap them. With the
ordinary bits which wear more, they gradually get looserand *that* is
what destroys the screws.

I tend to use DeWalt ones, simply because they are more readily
available on eBay or elsewhere.

And no question, impact drivers (used properly) are less likely to
damage screws than combis.

On 31/07/2018 09:16, newshound wrote:
On 31/07/2018 08:24, Broadback wrote:
On 31/07/2018 08:11, Jim K wrote:
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest
brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

The problem then would be the bits destroying the screw heads. I would
rather damage the bits that the screws.

No, you are better off with the bits made for impact drivers which fail
by brittle fracture. Then (provided you notice) you scrap them. With the
ordinary bits which wear more, they gradually get looserand *that* is
what destroys the screws.

I tend to use DeWalt ones, simply because they are more readily
available on eBay or elsewhere.

And no question, impact drivers (used properly) are less likely to
damage screws than combis.

Oh, and *nothing* is indestructible. You will get through more impact
bits with an impact driver than you would ordinary bits with a combi.
But life will be easier, and you will have to drill a screw head out
less often.

"Jim K" wrote in message
.. .
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest brand
on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

I find that most bits are fairly indestructible. It's the screw heads that
get mashed-up and rounded off after a couple of turns.

The worst screws were some which came with some Rawlplugs. I drilled the
correct size hole in the masonry and used the screws that came with the
Rawplugs (so there were definitely the right size) but they were very
difficult to screw in and kept sticking to the plugs, so I had to use a fair
amount of force. And before I'd got them fully in, the heads of most of the
screws were rounded-off. I ended up having to drill the heads off, grab the
shaft with a Mole grip and them and then use my own screws which were a lot
better. I think the ones I bought may have been brass rather than steel.

On 31/07/18 07:14, Bertie Doe wrote:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest brand
on the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my
Bosch cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.



You need to make sure that you are using the ratchet of the screwdriver
and never letting the bit spin in the head of the screw:

Set the driver ratchet at a low torgue/ tightness and increase it only
when you need to

Hold the driver very straight, inline with the screw

press the driver firmly into the screw as it turns

I know it's all obv but with care you can make the bit last a long time
with less cursing.

Tim w

On 31/07/2018 11:05, NY wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message
.. .
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest
brand on
the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed on my Bosch
cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years. TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

I find that most bits are fairly indestructible. It's the screw heads
that get mashed-up and rounded off after a couple of turns.

Which means either you are using a poorly fitting (or worn) bit, or
cheap and nasty screws.

With a good pozi bit to head fit, you should pretty much be able to lift
the weight of the driver itself, just holding the screw.


The worst screws were some which came with some Rawlplugs. I drilled the
correct size hole in the masonry and used the screws that came with the
Rawplugs (so there were definitely the right size) but they were very
difficult to screw in and kept sticking to the plugs, so I had to use a
fair amount of force. And before I'd got them fully in, the heads of
most of the screws were rounded-off. I ended up having to drill the
heads off, grab the shaft with a Mole grip and them and then use my own
screws which were a lot better. I think the ones I bought may have been
brass rather than steel.

For many thing that come with screws, the quality of screw often leaves
much to be desired IME.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:35:10 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

FWIW, hex-shafted screwdriver bits, whether PZ or PH, fit comfortable
into an old-fashioned brace. With that arrangement you can apply
considerable um...axial force to keep the bit in the screw head and
stop it caming out and ruining the screw head and/or the bit, and you
can exert a lot of torque at the same time, probably more than with a
hand-held electric screwdriver.

For "out", yes.

For "in"? Torx! Using Torx screwdrivers on wood screws is fun: just enough axial
pressure to keep the head in place --hardly any-- and the rest is torque.




Thomas Prufer

"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:35:10 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

FWIW, hex-shafted screwdriver bits, whether PZ or PH, fit comfortable
into an old-fashioned brace. With that arrangement you can apply
considerable um...axial force to keep the bit in the screw head and
stop it caming out and ruining the screw head and/or the bit, and you
can exert a lot of torque at the same time, probably more than with a
hand-held electric screwdriver.

For "out", yes.

For "in"? Torx! Using Torx screwdrivers on wood screws is fun: just enough
axial
pressure to keep the head in place --hardly any-- and the rest is torque.

The opposite of this is the flat-blade "screw head" on my old Peugeot 306
for securing the spare wheel cage to the underside of the boot. Now anyone
with an ounce of common sense would make the head of this long bolt
hexagonal, of the same size as the wheelnuts. But no, Peugeot do it
differently. They put a very broad half-cylindrical notch in a round head,
and then instruct you to use the flattened end of the wheelbrace as a
makeshift "screwdriver". It doesn't work well. When I had a puncture, the
threads of the bolt had rusted to the nut on the cage, and even putting all
my weight on the wheelbrace to hold the "blade" into the notch, I couldn't
exert enough torque to shift the rusted nut without the blade jumping out of
the notch.

I actually had to call out the RAC (oh, the embarrassment, just for a flat
tyre) - simply to get the cage undone. We tried WD40, axle grease, heat
(being careful to shield the tyre of the spare wheel) and eventually got it
to move. After that, changing the wheel was a five-minute doddle.

Learning by my mistake, I got into the habit of spraying WD40 over the
thread every few weeks, and sometimes took the bolt right out and greased it
liberally. I wasn't risking a repeat performance :-)

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 12:48:48 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2018 11:05, NY wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message
.. .
"Bertie Doe" Wrote in message:
Ok there's no such thing as indestructible but what's the toughest
brand on the market. Despite using pilot holes and the slowest speed
on my Bosch cordless, I've destroyed countless sets over the years.
TIA.

What kind of "destroyed"?

I find that most bits are fairly indestructible. It's the screw heads
that get mashed-up and rounded off after a couple of turns.

Which means either you are using a poorly fitting (or worn) bit, or
cheap and nasty screws.

With a good pozi bit to head fit, you should pretty much be able to lift
the weight of the driver itself, just holding the screw.


The worst screws were some which came with some Rawlplugs. I drilled
the correct size hole in the masonry and used the screws that came with
the Rawplugs (so there were definitely the right size) but they were
very difficult to screw in and kept sticking to the plugs, so I had to
use a fair amount of force. And before I'd got them fully in, the heads
of most of the screws were rounded-off. I ended up having to drill the
heads off, grab the shaft with a Mole grip and them and then use my own
screws which were a lot better. I think the ones I bought may have been
brass rather than steel.

For many thing that come with screws, the quality of screw often leaves
much to be desired IME.

I bought some long frame fixings and tore the heads off the screws with
the combi drill/driver.

I ended up having to grease the screws to stop them binding in the fixings
and snapping.

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"NY" Wrote in message:
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:35:10 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

FWIW, hex-shafted screwdriver bits, whether PZ or PH, fit comfortable
into an old-fashioned brace. With that arrangement you can apply
considerable um...axial force to keep the bit in the screw head and
stop it caming out and ruining the screw head and/or the bit, and you
can exert a lot of torque at the same time, probably more than with a
hand-held electric screwdriver.

For "out", yes.

For "in"? Torx! Using Torx screwdrivers on wood screws is fun: just enough
axial
pressure to keep the head in place --hardly any-- and the rest is torque.

The opposite of this is the flat-blade "screw head" on my old Peugeot 306
for securing the spare wheel cage to the underside of the boot. Now anyone
with an ounce of common sense would make the head of this long bolt
hexagonal, of the same size as the wheelnuts. But no, Peugeot do it
differently. They put a very broad half-cylindrical notch in a round head,
and then instruct you to use the flattened end of the wheelbrace as a
makeshift "screwdriver". It doesn't work well. When I had a puncture, the
threads of the bolt had rusted to the nut on the cage, and even putting all
my weight on the wheelbrace to hold the "blade" into the notch, I couldn't
exert enough torque to shift the rusted nut without the blade jumping out of
the notch.

I actually had to call out the RAC (oh, the embarrassment, just for a flat
tyre) - simply to get the cage undone. We tried WD40, axle grease, heat
(being careful to shield the tyre of the spare wheel) and eventually got it
to move. After that, changing the wheel was a five-minute doddle.

Learning by my mistake, I got into the habit of spraying WD40 over the
thread every few weeks, and sometimes took the bolt right out and greased it
liberally. I wasn't risking a repeat performance :-)



Couldn't you have located a suitable hex headed replacement &
saved some bother?
--
--
Jim K

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 17:54:28 +0100, "NY" wrote:

The opposite of this is the flat-blade "screw head" on my old Peugeot 306
for securing the spare wheel cage to the underside of the boot.

And for mayhem: use a "yankee drill" with a flat screwdriver blade. The ratio of
torque to pressure is fixed by the pitch of the leadscrew, and optimized so that
the blade digs deep into wood, paint, and flesh.


Thomas Prufer

On 31/07/2018 17:54, NY wrote:


The opposite of this is the flat-blade "screw head" on my old Peugeot
306 for securing the spare wheel cage to the underside of the boot. Now
anyone with an ounce of common sense would make the head of this long
bolt hexagonal, of the same size as the wheelnuts. But no, Peugeot do it
differently. They put a very broad half-cylindrical notch in a round
head, and then instruct you to use the flattened end of the wheelbrace
as a makeshift "screwdriver". It doesn't work well. When I had a
puncture, the threads of the bolt had rusted to the nut on the cage, and
even putting all my weight on the wheelbrace to hold the "blade" into
the notch, I couldn't exert enough torque to shift the rusted nut
without the blade jumping out of the notch.

I actually had to call out the RAC (oh, the embarrassment, just for a
flat tyre) - simply to get the cage undone. We tried WD40, axle grease,
heat (being careful to shield the tyre of the spare wheel) and
eventually got it to move. After that, changing the wheel was a
five-minute doddle.

Learning by my mistake, I got into the habit of spraying WD40 over the
thread every few weeks, and sometimes took the bolt right out and
greased it liberally. I wasn't risking a repeat performance :-)

Similar performance on Suzuki Carry van, even though that is a hex bolt
the same as wheel nuts. IIRC I also put a length of hosepipe over the
exposed threads to keep the mud off in future, after cleaning and
greasing them liberally.

On 31/07/2018 12:48, John Rumm wrote:


For many thing that come with screws, the quality of screw often leaves
much to be desired IME.



+1, I have a box full of such things which I would not dream of using
but am too mean to throw out. (To be fair, the plugs go in there as
well, and I sometimes find one which is worth salvaging to use).

Also, PH is the spawn of the devil, IMHO. Surprised no-one else said so.
Nice to find it is becoming less common even on machine assembled stuff,
e.g. the way washing machine backs are usually Torx these days.

On 01/08/2018 07:31, Thomas Prufer wrote:

And for mayhem: use a "yankee drill" with a flat screwdriver blade. The ratio of
torque to pressure is fixed by the pitch of the leadscrew, and optimized so that
the blade digs deep into wood, paint, and flesh.

Oh yes, I remember those savage beasts.

On 01/08/2018 13:21, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 01/08/2018 07:31, Thomas Prufer wrote:

And for mayhem: use a "yankee drill" with a flat screwdriver blade. The ratio of
torque to pressure is fixed by the pitch of the leadscrew, and optimized so that
the blade digs deep into wood, paint, and flesh.

Oh yes, I remember those savage beasts.


Barry Bucknell made it look so easy. But of course all his stuff was
pre-drilled and pre-assembled.

On 01/08/2018 13:06, newshound wrote:
On 31/07/2018 12:48, John Rumm wrote:


For many thing that come with screws, the quality of screw often
leaves much to be desired IME.



+1, I have a box full of such things which I would not dream of using
but am too mean to throw out. (To be fair, the plugs go in there as
well, and I sometimes find one which is worth salvaging to use).

Also, PH is the spawn of the devil, IMHO. Surprised no-one else said so.
Nice to find it is becoming less common even on machine assembled stuff,
e.g. the way washing machine backs are usually Torx these days.

They are handy for some things... dry lining screws for example, where
you want the behaviour they were designed to exhibit (i.e. to cam out
once a certain level of torque was reached)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 01/08/2018 13:21, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 01/08/2018 07:31, Thomas Prufer wrote:

And for mayhem: use a "yankee drill" with a flat screwdriver blade. The ratio of
torque to pressure is fixed by the pitch of the leadscrew, and optimized so that
the blade digs deep into wood, paint, and flesh.

Oh yes, I remember those savage beasts.

Absolutely banned on most of the sites I have visited.

SteveW

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:16:25 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Absolutely banned on most of the sites I have visited.

*I* don't miss them.

I have one, good quality, here because it was a nicely-made tool and looking for
a home with sad big eyes saying "take me home", and it cost very little, 50
Euro-Cents, and so how could I resist? It might cumminhandi as a long ratcheting
screwdriver, as it can be locked in the extended position.

Thomas Prufer

On 02/08/2018 10:53, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:16:25 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Absolutely banned on most of the sites I have visited.

*I* don't miss them.

I have one, good quality, here because it was a nicely-made tool and looking for
a home with sad big eyes saying "take me home", and it cost very little, 50
Euro-Cents, and so how could I resist? It might cumminhandi as a long ratcheting
screwdriver, as it can be locked in the extended position.

Thomas Prufer


I came across mine this morning.
Must be thirty years old.
They were OK for pozi screws but I never did like it for slotted screws.
I think its the shorter version.

In article , dennis@home
wrote:
On 02/08/2018 10:53, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:16:25 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

Absolutely banned on most of the sites I have visited.

*I* don't miss them.

I have one, good quality, here because it was a nicely-made tool and
looking for a home with sad big eyes saying "take me home", and it cost
very little, 50 Euro-Cents, and so how could I resist? It might
cumminhandi as a long ratcheting screwdriver, as it can be locked in
the extended position.

Thomas Prufer


I came across mine this morning. Must be thirty years old. They were OK
for pozi screws but I never did like it for slotted screws. I think its
the shorter version.

I bought my first one in 1961. They hadn't invented PZ screws then.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 01/08/2018 14:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/08/2018 13:06, newshound wrote:
On 31/07/2018 12:48, John Rumm wrote:


For many thing that come with screws, the quality of screw often
leaves much to be desired IME.



+1, I have a box full of such things which I would not dream of using
but am too mean to throw out. (To be fair, the plugs go in there as
well, and I sometimes find one which is worth salvaging to use).

Also, PH is the spawn of the devil, IMHO. Surprised no-one else said
so. Nice to find it is becoming less common even on machine assembled
stuff, e.g. the way washing machine backs are usually Torx these days.

They are handy for some things... dry lining screws for example, where
you want the behaviour they were designed to exhibit (i.e. to cam out
once a certain level of torque was reached)

Fair point (although you don't even need that if you use the special
bits with a collar).