On 09/04/18 10:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 22:48, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 14:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 10:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/04/18 03:36, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 19:08:14 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 6 April 2018 16:20:03 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

Plastic drinking straws ! I've just signed a petition against
plastic drinking straws.

How high do you think they are on the list of the planet's
biggest problems?


Judging by the way they wash up beaches and are ingested by marine
life, I think they belong in the top 10, along with all forms of
plastic waste (teabags, coffee cups, sandwich cartons, cook-chill
food trays).

Ah. I thought the planet's top 10 problems contained things like a
billion people in poverty, huge numbers of deaths from diseases,
stuff like that.

The planet has no problems.


But thats all *natural* stuff like wot God does..
Only Man is capable of Sin.

If people lived the *natural* way there would not be the quoted billion
people in poverty.

AFAIK, we have had limited or no success with the supernatural. What's
"natural" in the context?

None of this new fangled life saving stuff like medicine and agriculture.

I was involved in one of those trades, and absolutely everything we did
was perfectly natural.

Oh. So you lived in a cave/outside? No machinery was involved in the
production or transportation?

Only normal machinery obeying physical laws; no supernatural machinery.


This obsession with *supernatural* is not natural.
These machines, where do they grow naturally?

Richard wrote:

On 09/04/18 10:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 22:48, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 14:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 10:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/04/18 03:36, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 19:08:14 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 6 April 2018 16:20:03 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

Plastic drinking straws ! I've just signed a petition against
plastic drinking straws.

How high do you think they are on the list of the planet's
biggest problems?


Judging by the way they wash up beaches and are ingested by marine
life, I think they belong in the top 10, along with all forms of
plastic waste (teabags, coffee cups, sandwich cartons, cook-chill
food trays).

Ah. I thought the planet's top 10 problems contained things like a
billion people in poverty, huge numbers of deaths from diseases,
stuff like that.

The planet has no problems.


But thats all *natural* stuff like wot God does..
Only Man is capable of Sin.

If people lived the *natural* way there would not be the quoted billion
people in poverty.

AFAIK, we have had limited or no success with the supernatural. What's
"natural" in the context?

None of this new fangled life saving stuff like medicine and agriculture.

I was involved in one of those trades, and absolutely everything we did
was perfectly natural.

Oh. So you lived in a cave/outside? No machinery was involved in the
production or transportation?

Only normal machinery obeying physical laws; no supernatural machinery.


This obsession with *supernatural* is not natural.
These machines, where do they grow naturally?

Is a flint axe head natural? Is a stick used by a bird to build a nest
natural? The concept of naturalness vs man made is empty of
significance. It comes down to a sentimental distinction.

--

Roger Hayter

charles wrote:

In article , Roger Hayter
wrote:
charles wrote:


snip

Re-usable straws. So only those who really need them will bother.
People with wired jaws, for instance.

and small children

Largely superseded by cups with spouts for those who really need them.

which are all made of plastic !

But not disposable. So much less plastic and easier to recycle.

--

Roger Hayter

On 09/04/18 12:02, Richard wrote:
On 09/04/18 10:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 22:48, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 14:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 10:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/04/18 03:36, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 19:08:14 UTC+1, AndrewÂ* wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 6 April 2018 16:20:03 UTC+1, whisky-daveÂ* wrote:

Plastic drinking straws !Â* I've just signed a petition against
plastic drinking straws.

How high do you think they are on the list of the planet's
biggest problems?


Judging by the way they wash up beaches and are ingested by
marine
life, I think they belong in the top 10, along with all forms of
plastic waste (teabags, coffee cups, sandwich cartons, cook-chill
food trays).

Ah. I thought the planet's top 10 problems contained things like a
billion people in poverty, huge numbers of deaths from diseases,
stuff like that.

The planet has no problems.


But thats all *natural* stuff like wot God does..
Only Man is capable of Sin.

If people lived the *natural* way there would not be the quoted
billion
people in poverty.

AFAIK, we have had limited or no success with the supernatural.
What's
"natural" in the context?

None of this new fangled life saving stuff like medicine and
agriculture.

I was involved in one of those trades, and absolutely everything we did
was perfectly natural.

Oh. So you lived in a cave/outside? No machinery was involved in the
production or transportation?

Only normal machinery obeying physical laws;Â* no supernatural machinery.


This obsession with *supernatural* is not natural.
These machines, where do they grow naturally?

In naturaly ocuuring factories. Bulit by naturally occurring mammals,.
like birds build nests or beavers build dams




--
€œSome people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of €¨an airplane.€�

Dennis Miller

On 09/04/18 15:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
Is a flint axe head natural? Is a stick used by a bird to build a nest
natural? The concept of naturalness vs man made is empty of
significance. It comes down to a sentimental distinction.

Exactly. Cf the 'Ship of Theseus'

It is in fact a *semantic* distinction.

According to Creationists, nothing is 'Natural'. God made everything.

All this 'Au Naturel' goes back to the Romantics in the 18th century
****tering on about the Loss of Nature, in Towns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism

They were the prototypical Lefty****s, emphasising emotional
masturbation over common sense.




--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/04/18 12:02, Richard wrote:
On 09/04/18 10:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 22:48, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 14:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 10:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/04/18 03:36, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 19:08:14 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 6 April 2018 16:20:03 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:

Plastic drinking straws ! I've just signed a petition against
plastic drinking straws.

How high do you think they are on the list of the planet's
biggest problems?


Judging by the way they wash up beaches and are ingested by
marine
life, I think they belong in the top 10, along with all forms of
plastic waste (teabags, coffee cups, sandwich cartons,
cook-chill
food trays).

Ah. I thought the planet's top 10 problems contained things
like a
billion people in poverty, huge numbers of deaths from diseases,
stuff like that.

The planet has no problems.


But thats all *natural* stuff like wot God does..
Only Man is capable of Sin.

If people lived the *natural* way there would not be the quoted
billion
people in poverty.

AFAIK, we have had limited or no success with the supernatural.
What's
"natural" in the context?

None of this new fangled life saving stuff like medicine and
agriculture.

I was involved in one of those trades, and absolutely everything we
did
was perfectly natural.

Oh. So you lived in a cave/outside? No machinery was involved in the
production or transportation?

Only normal machinery obeying physical laws; no supernatural machinery.


This obsession with *supernatural* is not natural.
These machines, where do they grow naturally?

In naturaly ocuuring factories. Bulit by naturally occurring mammals,.
like birds build nests or beavers build dams


I've sometimes wondered if people's dislike for signs of other people is
a biological thing. Like seeing someone else's spit on the pavement, or
the smell of other people's farts (apologies to those with sensitive
constitutions). Do termites get annoyed by other colonies' termite
mounds? Are they biologically programmed to wish to remove all trace of
them, perhaps to make room for their own? I think that, at some level,
that may be what we are feeling.

On 10/04/18 10:35, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/04/18 12:02, Richard wrote:
On 09/04/18 10:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 22:48, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 14:03, Roger Hayter wrote:
Richard wrote:

On 08/04/18 10:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/04/18 03:36, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 19:08:14 UTC+1, AndrewÂ* wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:54, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 6 April 2018 16:20:03 UTC+1, whisky-daveÂ* wrote:

Plastic drinking straws !Â* I've just signed a petition
against
plastic drinking straws.

How high do you think they are on the list of the planet's
biggest problems?


Judging by the way they wash up beaches and are ingested by
marine
life, I think they belong in the top 10, along with all
forms of
plastic waste (teabags, coffee cups, sandwich cartons,
cook-chill
food trays).

Ah. I thought the planet's top 10 problems contained things
like a
billion people in poverty, huge numbers of deaths from diseases,
stuff like that.

The planet has no problems.


But thats all *natural* stuff like wot God does..
Only Man is capable of Sin.

If people lived the *natural* way there would not be the quoted
billion
people in poverty.

AFAIK, we have had limited or no success with the supernatural.
What's
"natural" in the context?

None of this new fangled life saving stuff like medicine and
agriculture.

I was involved in one of those trades, and absolutely everything we
did
was perfectly natural.

Oh. So you lived in a cave/outside? No machinery was involved in the
production or transportation?

Only normal machinery obeying physical laws;Â* no supernatural
machinery.


This obsession with *supernatural* is not natural.
These machines, where do they grow naturally?

In naturaly ocuuring factories. Bulit by naturally occurring mammals,.
like birds build nests or beavers build dams


I've sometimes wondered if people's dislike for signs of other people is
a biological thing.Â* Like seeing someone else's spit on the pavement, or
the smell of other people's farts (apologies to those with sensitive
constitutions).Â* Do termites get annoyed by other colonies' termite
mounds?Â* Are they biologically programmed to wish to remove all trace of
them, perhaps to make room for their own?Â* I think that, at some level,
that may be what we are feeling.

Remember that 90% of human existence has been spent wandering around in
family groups 'hunter gathering'.

Agricultire is only abput 5000 years old, and cities only about 3000,
and cities that depend entirely on machinery only about 150.

We are simply not used to it.


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/04/18 15:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
Is a flint axe head natural? Is a stick used by a bird to build a nest
natural? The concept of naturalness vs man made is empty of
significance. It comes down to a sentimental distinction.

Exactly. Cf the 'Ship of Theseus'

It is in fact a *semantic* distinction.

According to Creationists, nothing is 'Natural'. God made everything.

All this 'Au Naturel' goes back to the Romantics in the 18th century
****tering on about the Loss of Nature, in Towns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism

They were the prototypical Lefty****s, emphasising emotional
masturbation over common sense.

Just to clarify this "lefty****" descriptor, which seems to be of
uncertain political significance, which of the following qualify:

William Morris
Emily Pankhurst
Stalin
Edward VIII
Oswald Moseley?

I make it two.


--

Roger Hayter