On 28 Dec 2017 19:22:38 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

snip

Our 27 year old White Knight is on its original motor, belt, idlers, drum,
bearings etc.

That sounds like it was a good buy. ;-)

We think so. It was a bit pricey but gas ones cost more.

Ah, so not an 'ordinary' (electric) model then. ;-)


But a 27 year old belt ... how often do you use it?

Just about every day. Frequently for two or three loads in a day. Been
with us since we had two young kids and all the laundry that entails.

Ah, so it has been 'used' then. ;-)

I wonder how their std / condenser models fair?

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
On 28 Dec 2017 19:22:38 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

snip

Our 27 year old White Knight is on its original motor, belt, idlers, drum,
bearings etc.

That sounds like it was a good buy. ;-)

We think so. It was a bit pricey but gas ones cost more.

Ah, so not an 'ordinary' (electric) model then. ;-)

True, but to look at, it looks every bit as flimsy as any cheap electric
model. It certainly doesnt look like extra money was spent on any
internals just because it was a gas model.


But a 27 year old belt ... how often do you use it?

Just about every day. Frequently for two or three loads in a day. Been
with us since we had two young kids and all the laundry that entails.

Ah, so it has been 'used' then. ;-)

I wonder how their std / condenser models fair?

No idea. The trouble is the reliability of a 27 year old model isnt
necessarily representative of newer models. Have been impressed by the
support from Crossley over the years for the very occasional spare part
though.

I would buy White Knight again though.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 28 Dec 2017 19:41:01 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

T i m wrote:
On 28 Dec 2017 19:22:38 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

snip

Our 27 year old White Knight is on its original motor, belt, idlers, drum,
bearings etc.

That sounds like it was a good buy. ;-)

We think so. It was a bit pricey but gas ones cost more.

Ah, so not an 'ordinary' (electric) model then. ;-)

True, but to look at, it looks every bit as flimsy as any cheap electric
model.

;-)

I guess it's like computer cases. In the old days they were very heavy
and robust, now they are (often) just strong enough to hold all the
bits in place because in most cases, that's really all they need to
do.

It certainly doesn’t look like extra money was spent on any
internals just because it was a gas model.

The thing is the difference between a good and a less good bearing is
generally very little (if you are only buying one), so I wonder if you
could tell just by looking from the outside?

When I saved the 13 month old Zanussi washing machine that was written
off because the bearings had failed and the tub was plastic and welded
(rather than bolted) together and so 'not financially viable to
repair', if being done so 'professionally'. I replaced the bearings
with quality bearings and they lasted 7+ times the time of the
original ones.


But a 27 year old belt ... how often do you use it?

Just about every day. Frequently for two or three loads in a day. Been
with us since we had two young kids and all the laundry that entails.

Ah, so it has been 'used' then. ;-)

I wonder how their std / condenser models fair?

No idea. The trouble is the reliability of a 27 year old model isn’t
necessarily representative of newer models.

True.

Have been impressed by the
support from Crossley over the years for the very occasional spare part
though.

Good to know.

I would buy White Knight again though.

And that's always a good test.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:43:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

You'd get clothes dry with a fraction of the energy use by replacing the heating element with a vigorous fan. Do that and you don't need to worry about door seals, thermostats etc.

I also cleared the external exhaust port / grille / flap thing earlier
and she tells me it's all working well again. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:58:57 +0000, T i m wrote:

The tank has never filled up during drying.

If used more than once without emptying?

You are supposed to empty it after each load. We frequently don't, thogh.
It takes a few seconds - slide it out, tip over sink, replace.

It's a big tank, and the total caoacity is that plus the holding tank
inside the machine (I know that's big as well, I've looked).

Sorry, there is more than one tank in use here?

Effectively. The tank you empty is at the top of the machine (in the same
place as the soap powder drawer on a washing machine, and the same
dimensions panel-wise, but full depth).

There is a large holding tank inside the machine that collects water.
When it's full, a sensor starts a pump that moves the water to the
removable tank. If the removable tank fills, a bypass sends it back to
the holding tank. A sensor there detects potential overflow and stops the
machine.


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 29 Dec 2017 00:12:39 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:58:57 +0000, T i m wrote:

The tank has never filled up during drying.

If used more than once without emptying?

You are supposed to empty it after each load.

That sounds like 'a chore'. ;-)

We frequently don't, thogh.

Ok.

It takes a few seconds - slide it out, tip over sink, replace.

So is it effectively a sealed tank, all but a drain hole (that was a
fill hole, at the top)?

It's a big tank, and the total caoacity is that plus the holding tank
inside the machine (I know that's big as well, I've looked).

Sorry, there is more than one tank in use here?

Effectively. The tank you empty is at the top of the machine (in the same
place as the soap powder drawer on a washing machine, and the same
dimensions panel-wise, but full depth).

So, given this tank would end up at about eye level for me (at 6' 2")
it may not be so easy for the Mrs to empty (the person most likely to
be emptying it) at 5' 4"? (Did I see some of the White Knight TD's
look like they have been built upside down)?

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybm5clhf

There is a large holding tank inside the machine that collects water.
When it's full, a sensor starts a pump that moves the water to the
removable tank. If the removable tank fills, a bypass sends it back to
the holding tank. A sensor there detects potential overflow and stops the
machine.

Ah, cool, thanks.

So, you still haven't answered my question Bob and that was 'if you
could wave a magic wand and have it plumbed in, why wouldn't you?'

We were round my Uncles one day and discussing his old open fire and
tiled fire surround. He hinted that he might like a wall mounted gas
fire there but it would be a lot of effort. The Mrs asked", "If you
could wave a magic wand and it be done, would you?" He thought for a
second and said ... "Well, yes."

So, the Mrs looked and me and said "Let's go home and get the tools"
and we did and it was all done within a few days (he didn't mind about
that, it was just going past that first step that was holding him up).

My point was that if we got a condensing TD and no matter how 'easy'
it was to empty, we *would* plumb it in because we would rather not
*have to* do it manually if we didn't need to?

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

On 29 Dec 2017 00:12:39 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:58:57 +0000, T i m wrote:

The tank has never filled up during drying.

If used more than once without emptying?

You are supposed to empty it after each load.

That sounds like 'a chore'. ;-)

We frequently don't, thogh.

Ok.

It takes a few seconds - slide it out, tip over sink, replace.

So is it effectively a sealed tank, all but a drain hole (that was a
fill hole, at the top)?

It's a big tank, and the total caoacity is that plus the holding tank
inside the machine (I know that's big as well, I've looked).

Sorry, there is more than one tank in use here?

Effectively. The tank you empty is at the top of the machine (in the same
place as the soap powder drawer on a washing machine, and the same
dimensions panel-wise, but full depth).

So, given this tank would end up at about eye level for me (at 6' 2")
it may not be so easy for the Mrs to empty (the person most likely to
be emptying it) at 5' 4"? (Did I see some of the White Knight TD's
look like they have been built upside down)?

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybm5clhf

There is a large holding tank inside the machine that collects water.
When it's full, a sensor starts a pump that moves the water to the
removable tank. If the removable tank fills, a bypass sends it back to
the holding tank. A sensor there detects potential overflow and stops the
machine.

Ah, cool, thanks.

So, you still haven't answered my question Bob and that was 'if you
could wave a magic wand and have it plumbed in, why wouldn't you?'

We were round my Uncles one day and discussing his old open fire and
tiled fire surround. He hinted that he might like a wall mounted gas
fire there but it would be a lot of effort. The Mrs asked", "If you
could wave a magic wand and it be done, would you?" He thought for a
second and said ... "Well, yes."

So, the Mrs looked and me and said "Let's go home and get the tools"
and we did and it was all done within a few days (he didn't mind about
that, it was just going past that first step that was holding him up).

My point was that if we got a condensing TD and no matter how 'easy'
it was to empty, we *would* plumb it in because we would rather not
*have to* do it manually if we didn't need to?

Cheers, T i m

Then do your research more carefully than I. I have a moderately
expensive Bosch heat pump one that has no facilities to plumb it in. I
naturally assumed ...

--

Roger Hayter

In message , at 13:17:57 on Thu, 28 Dec
2017, Lee remarked:

A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of
towels spun at 1600rpm dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is about
on par with a non heat pump machine.

Nope. A conventional dryer will cope with that lot in under an hour,
even if spun at 800-1000rpm.

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

Apart from having a control panel to rival a 747 (and no instruction
manual), when it failed to dry half a load in 2hrs the assembled company
decided it was completely unfit for purpose (which was getting some
stuff washed overnight dry again to wear that morning).
--
Roland Perry

On 29/12/2017 11:53, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:17:57 on Thu, 28 Dec
2017, Lee remarked:

A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of
towels spun atÂ* 1600rpmÂ* dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is
about on par with a non heat pump machine.

Nope. A conventional dryer will cope with that lot in under an hour,
even if spun at 800-1000rpm.

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

Apart from having a control panel to rival a 747 (and no instruction
manual), when it failed to dry half a load in 2hrs the assembled company
decided it was completely unfit for purpose (which was getting some
stuff washed overnight dry again to wear that morning).


Ok, not entirely sure what your point is then, non-condenser models do
dry quicker whether heat pump or not.
Not exactly surprising when you consider how hot they get.

The argument was whether heat pump condenser models are slower than non
heat pump condenser ones.
That's the point I'm not convinced about, except in the circumstances
tabbypurr points out.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:53:59 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:17:57 on Thu, 28 Dec
2017, Lee remarked:

A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of
towels spun at 1600rpm dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is about
on par with a non heat pump machine.

Nope. A conventional dryer will cope with that lot in under an hour,
even if spun at 800-1000rpm.

So by 'conventional' do you mean 'vented' Rowland?

FWIW, we generally spin at 'not the fastest' speed because I'm not
sure it does the bearings any good. [1]

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

A condenser-dryer or heat pump?

Apart from having a control panel to rival a 747 (and no instruction
manual),

That's fine, as long as it's intuitive (and many aren't).

when it failed to dry half a load in 2hrs the assembled company
decided it was completely unfit for purpose (which was getting some
stuff washed overnight dry again to wear that morning).

Great.

Since we have repaired the old vented Zanussi (again) she tells me
it's working very well again. There is a short length of the
corrugated hose going to some of that rectangular box ducting, 90
Degree turn at the top and though the outside wall to a flap valve and
grille. Even when the glass of the dryer door feels fairly warm the
ducting feels fairly cool so I'm guessing most of the heat energy is
going into the clothes to balance the latent heat of vaporisation?

Cheers, T i m

[1] The previous WM had a 1200 spin speed but stamped into the spider
holding the bearings it said 'MAX 1000 RPM'.

In message , at 12:30:36 on
Fri, 29 Dec 2017, T i m remarked:
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:53:59 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:17:57 on Thu, 28 Dec
2017, Lee remarked:

A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of
towels spun at 1600rpm dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is about
on par with a non heat pump machine.

Nope. A conventional dryer will cope with that lot in under an hour,
even if spun at 800-1000rpm.

So by 'conventional' do you mean 'vented' Rowland?

Yes, Tym.

FWIW, we generally spin at 'not the fastest' speed because I'm not
sure it does the bearings any good. [1]

Which is why we use 800rpm most of the time.

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

A condenser-dryer or heat pump?

Dunno - the instruction manual was missing.

--
Roland Perry

On 29/12/2017 12:23, Lee wrote:
On 29/12/2017 11:53, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:17:57 on Thu, 28
Dec 2017, Lee remarked:

A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of
towels spun atÂ* 1600rpmÂ* dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is
about on par with a non heat pump machine.

Nope. A conventional dryer will cope with that lot in under an hour,
even if spun at 800-1000rpm.

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

Apart from having a control panel to rival a 747 (and no instruction
manual), when it failed to dry half a load in 2hrs the assembled
company decided it was completely unfit for purpose (which was getting
some stuff washed overnight dry again to wear that morning).


Ok, not entirely sure what your point is then, non-condenser models do
dry quicker whether heat pump or not.
Not exactly surprising when you consider how hot they get.

The argument was whether heat pump condenser models are slower than non
heat pump condenser ones.
That's the point I'm not convinced about, except in the circumstances
tabbypurr points out.

When I looked at various models, they gave a drying time. This was
generally 50% longer to twice as long for heat pump models.

I suggest you look at example tumble driers on say the Bosch website
yourself so you can become more convinced!

On 29/12/2017 12:43, Fredxx wrote:

When I looked at various models, they gave a drying time. This was
generally 50% longer to twice as long for heat pump models.

I suggest you look at example tumble driers on say the Bosch website
yourself so you can become more convinced!

I'm not going to attempt to argue with specifications, if that's what
the people who make it say, then it must be so

I can only repeat that we have a Bosch heat pump dryer, it dries washing
faster than the machine we were using before (not difficult!) and about
the same as most other condenser machines we've used.

That's based on cotton, mostly and by "dry" meaning dry enough to store
in the cupboard/wardrobe.

Synthetics are virtually dry when they come out of the washing machine
so do not require much drying time any way.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:05:26 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

snip

My point was that if we got a condensing TD and no matter how 'easy'
it was to empty, we *would* plumb it in because we would rather not
*have to* do it manually if we didn't need to?


Then do your research more carefully than I. I have a moderately
expensive Bosch heat pump one that has no facilities to plumb it in. I
naturally assumed ...

As you might under those circumstances ...

This is the sort of thing I hate when replacing something that has
done just what you need, easily and simply for many years and you
can't find a straight replacement.

Like when we thought the TD was a gonna the last time (the new handle
came today and I've just fitted it btw g) we were actually looking
for a straight replacement but couldn't find one with an exhaust port
on the left. Ours has them at the left, right and the rear!

But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 28/12/2017 10:04, jim wrote:
Jeff Layman Wrote in message:
On 27/12/17 21:07, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

So, makes, models, suppliers and personal recommendations please?

5 years ago when we moved here we decided a condensing TD was required.
After reading reviews and looking at the models, we decided a Beko would
do what we wanted, and got one. It's been fine, even when we heard it
was one of the models Beko were doing a recall on to fit a replacement
part. The technician came and fitted the part when we requested.


+1 for Beko, very pleased with mine.

I have no idea if it was really required or not (maybe we're unusual in
that we regularly clean the filter!), and it's working as well as it did
when we first got it. I must say that it is a bit noisy, and you really
don't want to be in the kitchen for any length of time when it's on.


Yes, agree.

Oh, as a bonus, if you're into fussy house plants, you get a litre of
pure water for watering them after a batch of washing has been dried.


Fsvo of "pure" ;-)


Not sure how pure it is, but it does smell of whatever detergent was
used to wash the clothes.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 28/12/2017 16:58, T i m wrote:
On 28 Dec 2017 15:54:34 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

snip
We haven't found it an issue, and we've had ours about six years. It's a
reminder to users that the fluff/lint filters needcleaning too!

Ok, let's say you could wave a magic wand and it was plumbed in for you,
wouldn't you do it?

I could easily have plumbed it in but it wasn't worth the effort
(although I am not sure it's plumb-able, come to that).

Yes, but assuming it was, that was my question (you didn't have to do
it or pay to have it done).

There are two sinks each within two paces of it, so emptying takes no
time at all.

But *it still needs emptying*. ;-(


Yes, you're quite right - I sense your rage!

I'm with the other posters here who haven't bothered to plumb in the
condensate waste. It's trivial to empty, it's something else to go
worng, and you might have a use for the water. And I think there may be
something of the 'bagless hoover' effect going on - a weird sense of
well being in seeing what it's achieved.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 12:41:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 12:30:36 on
Fri, 29 Dec 2017, T i m remarked:
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:53:59 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:17:57 on Thu, 28 Dec
2017, Lee remarked:

A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of
towels spun at 1600rpm dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is about
on par with a non heat pump machine.

Nope. A conventional dryer will cope with that lot in under an hour,
even if spun at 800-1000rpm.

So by 'conventional' do you mean 'vented' Rowland?

Yes, Tym.

Sorry, only spotted that when reading your reply here (I'm sure it
must be one of those frustrating things you get a lot, unlike my Tym
(which I quite like BTW)), but that's also 'word blindness' for you).
;-(

FWIW, we generally spin at 'not the fastest' speed because I'm not
sure it does the bearings any good. [1]

Which is why we use 800rpm most of the time.

Noted.

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

A condenser-dryer or heat pump?

Dunno - the instruction manual was missing.

Ok ... but I'm guessing it might not be heat pump in a 'holiday
rental', unless the electricity was inclusive?

Cheers, T y m

T i m wrote:



But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(


That's really annoying, and often impossible to find out from the specs.

--

Roger Hayter

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:52:07 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

T i m wrote:



But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(


That's really annoying, and often impossible to find out from the specs.

It is indeed ... and it seems fewer and fewer people care about such
things, willing to accept pretty well whatever they can get easily
rather than going for what they really want.

The problem with the latter (for anyone who has tried) is, as you say,
the lack of good information (including key dimensions sometimes) but
how quickly the choices fade out.

The real frustration is when the things you want and that most agree
are sensible or even a basic minimum, are only available on a small
selection of models, if any? [1]

Like, having the option to 'plumb in' something like a dehumidifier or
condenser dryer and even to have the choice of positions (like not all
appliances can have their doors hinged on either side).

Cheers, T i m

[1] Years ago I had to spend quite a bit of cash to get a telephone
answering machine that both recorded the date and time stamp on each
incoming message and displayed the number of new messages in a simple
display (rather than expecting you to count the flashes etc). Wouldn't
*everyone* consider those things to be basic requirements, even at the
beginning?

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:42:49 +0000, RJH wrote:

On 28/12/2017 16:58, T i m wrote:
On 28 Dec 2017 15:54:34 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

snip
We haven't found it an issue, and we've had ours about six years. It's a
reminder to users that the fluff/lint filters needcleaning too!

Ok, let's say you could wave a magic wand and it was plumbed in for you,
wouldn't you do it?

I could easily have plumbed it in but it wasn't worth the effort
(although I am not sure it's plumb-able, come to that).

Yes, but assuming it was, that was my question (you didn't have to do
it or pay to have it done).

There are two sinks each within two paces of it, so emptying takes no
time at all.

But *it still needs emptying*. ;-(


Yes, you're quite right - I sense your rage!

I wouldn't quite call it rage though, just it seems difficult to get
an answer to my question. ;-)

I'm with the other posters here who haven't bothered to plumb in the
condensate waste.

Ok.

It's trivial to empty,

But still needs doing. I'm guessing you have plumbed in your
dishwasher rather than hooking the rubber hose over the sink? ;-)

it's something else to go
worng,

Ah, ok, that is at least *an* answer, suggesting that the auto drain
function is more likely to go wrong than forgetting to empty the tray
and have the machine cutoff mid cycle or dropping / spilling the
container whist emptying it (we have spilled the condensate tanks on
both our dehumidifiers and some time or another but the plumed in one
(on the split aircon) has not leaked so far). ;-)

However, in support of that I recently helped a mate 'fix' his aircon
unit because part of the self drain function had become blocked and it
was spraying water all over the place. To be fair to both him and the
design, it did seem that they had allowed quite a bit of debris in
there, possibly during the installation that had helped block the
outlet pipe and the spigot on the outlet tray was fairly small and
poorly designed meaning it was easy to block. After clearing it and
cleaning around to minimise the risk of it happening again, we
overviewed the option of a little re-design, if it happened again in
the future. ;-)

and you might have a use for the water.

See above, we have *more* than enough water of that type and possibly
cleaner than that recovered from clothes from a washing machine?

And I think there may be
something of the 'bagless hoover' effect going on - a weird sense of
well being in seeing what it's achieved.

Maybe I get that fix emptying two de-humidifiers (or seeing them off
because we forgot to). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote

Years ago I had to spend quite a bit of cash to get a telephone
answering machine that both recorded the date and time stamp on each
incoming message and displayed the number of new messages in a simple
display (rather than expecting you to count the flashes etc). Wouldn't
*everyone* consider those things to be basic requirements, even at the
beginning?

Probably, and that's what you get with all smartphones.

In message , at 16:31:40 on
Fri, 29 Dec 2017, T i m remarked:

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

A condenser-dryer or heat pump?

Dunno - the instruction manual was missing.

Ok ... but I'm guessing it might not be heat pump in a 'holiday
rental', unless the electricity was inclusive?

The electricity was all-included, and given the number of electric
heaters the efficiency of a dryer would be down in the noise level.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 08:56:49 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 16:31:40 on
Fri, 29 Dec 2017, T i m remarked:

We stayed at a holiday rental earlier in the month and it had a
condenser-dryer.

A condenser-dryer or heat pump?

Dunno - the instruction manual was missing.

Ok ... but I'm guessing it might not be heat pump in a 'holiday
rental', unless the electricity was inclusive?

The electricity was all-included, and given the number of electric
heaters the efficiency of a dryer would be down in the noise level.

Noted. Still, there is no knowing what the owner thought and could
have been 'sold' on the low power consumption of a heat pump model
without realising where it would sit in the consumption chart?

How many ordinary people really know the running costs of most
household stuff?

I had a reasonably technical mate (in things other than 'electrics')
who called me re what size cable / fuse he would need to put on a
small electric towel rail (don't ask). I think he said it was 150W but
when he tried to look up how to convert that into Amps, the sites he
found mentioned power factor and that wasn't mentioned on the blurb. I
suggested that being it was a purely resistive heater it would
probably have a PF of 1 and so it would just be the 150W / 240V?

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 17:29:18 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

T i m wrote

Years ago I had to spend quite a bit of cash to get a telephone
answering machine that both recorded the date and time stamp on each
incoming message and displayed the number of new messages in a simple
display (rather than expecting you to count the flashes etc). Wouldn't
*everyone* consider those things to be basic requirements, even at the
beginning?

Probably, and that's what you get with all smartphones.

Quite.

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:20:16 +0000
T i m wrote:

But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(

It shouldn't be too hard to rig something to press the button:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqk_nWAjBus

:-)

Rob Morley wrote:

T i m wrote:

But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(

It shouldn't be too hard to rig something to press the button:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqk_nWAjBus

I expected that to be this https://youtu.be/migRN4P1wGI

On 27/12/2017 22:17, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/12/2017 21:07, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

The door opening handle had just broken on our old Zanussi TD-534
vented tumble dryer and assuming the realistic repair timetable
exceeds our clothes drying schedule, we may be in need of a
replacement. ;-(

I'm genuinely surprised anyone is still using a vented tumble drier,
where a condensing one is so much more convenient and efficient.

I have one that also stops on the desired dryness as well. Again makes
for greater efficiency and not having wet or over-dried/melted clothes

Cost and reliability?

Both can have sensor drying.

--


Adam

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:39:37 +0000, Rob Morley
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:20:16 +0000
T i m wrote:

But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(

It shouldn't be too hard to rig something to press the button:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqk_nWAjBus

:-)

Hehe. I have the single version of that so I'm ready to go on the
single TD 'Start' button. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:46:26 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Rob Morley wrote:

T i m wrote:

But then the old TD allowed you to run it from an external timer (E7)
whereas this one requires you to press the start button. ;-(

It shouldn't be too hard to rig something to press the button:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqk_nWAjBus

I expected that to be this https://youtu.be/migRN4P1wGI

Interesting, thanks and bookmarked (for general projects etc).

Cheers, T i m

On 27/12/2017 22:43, wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 21:07:10 UTC, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

The door opening handle had just broken on our old Zanussi TD-534
vented tumble dryer and assuming the realistic repair timetable
exceeds our clothes drying schedule, we may be in need of a
replacement. ;-(

We have repaired it a few times now, from new bearings in the motor, I
turned a new belt tension / idler, replaced the rear bearing spigot
(they actually make / sell that bit saving having to replace the whole
drum) and a couple of drive belts. It currently also needs the front
felt drum-seal and we have that waiting to go on.

The problem we had last time when looking for a replacement machine
was actually finding something that was vented and with a vent port on
the LHS and wasn't likely to self combust. ;-(

So, where are we now with condensing / de-humidifying (non gas) dryers
please?

If any waste heat came into the kitchen, rather than being blown
outside then that would be ok (especially in the winter g) and we
already have a dehumidifier out there (again for the winter) that we
could turn on if any new condenser dryer didn't condense all it's
moisture. The tumble dryer also sits over the washing machine (on a
shelf) and so we could easily plumb-in the condensate drain.

Daughter recently bought us a Bosch washing machine to replace the
Zanussi we salvaged from being scrapped (at 13 months old, from
Freecycle) after that finally died after about 8 years or so.

So, makes, models, suppliers and personal recommendations please?

Cheers, T i m

You'd get clothes dry with a fraction of the energy use by replacing the heating element with a vigorous fan. Do that and you don't need to worry about door seals, thermostats etc.


You'll be telling us next that you cannot get pregnant if you have sex
whilst stood up.

--


Adam

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 21:55:42 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 27/12/2017 22:43, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 21:07:10 UTC, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

The door opening handle had just broken on our old Zanussi TD-534
vented tumble dryer and assuming the realistic repair timetable
exceeds our clothes drying schedule, we may be in need of a
replacement. ;-(

We have repaired it a few times now, from new bearings in the motor, I
turned a new belt tension / idler, replaced the rear bearing spigot
(they actually make / sell that bit saving having to replace the whole
drum) and a couple of drive belts. It currently also needs the front
felt drum-seal and we have that waiting to go on.

The problem we had last time when looking for a replacement machine
was actually finding something that was vented and with a vent port on
the LHS and wasn't likely to self combust. ;-(

So, where are we now with condensing / de-humidifying (non gas) dryers
please?

If any waste heat came into the kitchen, rather than being blown
outside then that would be ok (especially in the winter g) and we
already have a dehumidifier out there (again for the winter) that we
could turn on if any new condenser dryer didn't condense all it's
moisture. The tumble dryer also sits over the washing machine (on a
shelf) and so we could easily plumb-in the condensate drain.

Daughter recently bought us a Bosch washing machine to replace the
Zanussi we salvaged from being scrapped (at 13 months old, from
Freecycle) after that finally died after about 8 years or so.

So, makes, models, suppliers and personal recommendations please?

Cheers, T i m

You'd get clothes dry with a fraction of the energy use by replacing the heating element with a vigorous fan. Do that and you don't need to worry about door seals, thermostats etc.


You'll be telling us next that you cannot get pregnant if you have sex
whilst stood up.

Incorrect. Unlike you I've experimented with clothes drying by fans.


NT

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 17:18:49 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

Incorrect. Unlike you I've experimented with clothes drying by fans.

You don't live near a wind farm do you and are confused what they are?
;-)

So, when we dry clothes outdoors we absorb energy from the environment
as the water evaporates. If we raise the airflow we also raise the
rate of evaporation and so also lower the temperature of the clothes
further (and how people make basic camping coolers with a rag and some
water).

So, if you were to blow air though a (moving?) container of clothes,
what would stop them cooling down to the point where they could
freeze? Worse if you were recycling the air?

Given both of our de-humidifiers (working on the same principal of a
liquid evaporating cooling a surface) often go into defrost mode if
they are in an unheated room in the winter, what is to stop the
clothes simply freezing up, if you don't introduce heat energy into
the system to stop that?

I don't know the answers, I'm just asking the questions? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 17:18:49 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

Incorrect. Unlike you I've experimented with clothes drying by fans.

You don't live near a wind farm do you and are confused what they are?
;-)

So, when we dry clothes outdoors we absorb energy from the environment
as the water evaporates. If we raise the airflow we also raise the
rate of evaporation and so also lower the temperature of the clothes
further (and how people make basic camping coolers with a rag and some
water).

So, if you were to blow air though a (moving?)
container of clothes, what would stop them cooling
down to the point where they could freeze?

Same thing that never sees camping coolers freeze.

Worse if you were recycling the air?

Nope, because once the air is saturated, it
doesn't evaporate any more from the clothes.

Given both of our de-humidifiers (working on the same
principal of a liquid evaporating cooling a surface) often
go into defrost mode if they are in an unheated room in the
winter, what is to stop the clothes simply freezing up, if you
don't introduce heat energy into the system to stop that?

Same thing that never sees camping coolers freeze.

I don't know the answers,

That's obvious.

I'm just asking the questions? ;-)

Stoppit at once or go to your room, boy.

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:56:20 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 17:18:49 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

Incorrect. Unlike you I've experimented with clothes drying by fans.

You don't live near a wind farm do you and are confused what they are?
;-)

So, when we dry clothes outdoors we absorb energy from the environment
as the water evaporates. If we raise the airflow we also raise the
rate of evaporation and so also lower the temperature of the clothes
further (and how people make basic camping coolers with a rag and some
water).

So, if you were to blow air though a (moving?) container of clothes,
what would stop them cooling down to the point where they could
freeze? Worse if you were recycling the air?

Given both of our de-humidifiers (working on the same principal of a
liquid evaporating cooling a surface) often go into defrost mode if
they are in an unheated room in the winter, what is to stop the
clothes simply freezing up, if you don't introduce heat energy into
the system to stop that?

I don't know the answers, I'm just asking the questions? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from ambient to the water in the clothes. I've subjected clothes to some pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen. I suppose if they did they'd thaw again almost instantly.

The same basic principle applies to evaporation, the faster the wind speed the faster the evaporation. Fans dry clothes with a small fraction of the energy use of heat. Whoever designs tumble dryers must be stuck in the 20th century, they're abysmally slow and inefficient compared to their potential.. And they damage clothes more than necessary.


NT

On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 13:32:36 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

So, if you were to blow air though a (moving?)
container of clothes, what would stop them cooling
down to the point where they could freeze?

Same thing that never sees camping coolers freeze.

They do. I've had my Peltier cooler freeze many a time.

Worse if you were recycling the air?

Nope, because once the air is saturated, it
doesn't evaporate any more from the clothes.

Ok, so it might snow instead. ;-)

Given both of our de-humidifiers (working on the same
principal of a liquid evaporating cooling a surface) often
go into defrost mode if they are in an unheated room in the
winter, what is to stop the clothes simply freezing up, if you
don't introduce heat energy into the system to stop that?

Same thing that never sees camping coolers freeze.

But they do. See, you may simply be isolating your survey to one, 'Rod
in Auz' but if you consider most Peltier coolers are able to reduce
the temperature on the cold side to -20 DegC below ambient then if we
had one on here when it was even 15 Degrees outside (that's summer for
us g) then it would be -5 Degrees C in the cooler (and that's below
freezing in my world)?

I don't know the answers,

That's obvious.

Shame you don't know you don't know as well then. ;-)

I'm just asking the questions? ;-)

Stoppit at once or go to your room, boy.

Only once you have answered them correctly, as whilst I don't know all
the answers, I can differentiate fact from BS and bluster. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 21:02:02 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from ambient to the water in the clothes.

Ok.

I've subjected clothes to some pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen.

Ok.

I suppose if they did they'd thaw again almost instantly.

Ok.

The same basic principle applies to evaporation, the faster the wind speed the faster the evaporation.

So, for water to make the leap to vapour it must take energy from the
environment to do so. If that environment is open and therefore
potentially limitless then I could see that being the case. I'm not
sure how it might fair in an enclosed world (especially if the air was
trapped etc).

Fans dry clothes with a small fraction of the energy use of heat.

True ... but isn't that only true because it moves the water vapour
away from the clothes and increase the supply of low level energy?

Whoever designs tumble dryers must be stuck in the 20th century, they're abysmally slow and inefficient compared to their potential. And they damage clothes more than necessary.

I wonder why they haven't made a wind turbine model though?

Would it have to be much bigger to get sufficient airflow ... and
sound like a jet taking off?

I now a fan + de-humidifier make for a good low energy clothes dryer
but the separation has to be done manually. Maybe you would need to
try the concept in one of those skydiving machines first? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 31/12/2017 05:02, wrote:

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from
ambient to the water in the clothes. I've subjected clothes to some
pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen. I suppose if they
did they'd thaw again almost instantly.

You haven't pegged them out on a line in January when its 1C then.
They freeze if its windy.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 11:18:35 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 31/12/2017 05:02, wrote:

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from
ambient to the water in the clothes. I've subjected clothes to some
pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen. I suppose if they
did they'd thaw again almost instantly.

You haven't pegged them out on a line in January when its 1C then.
They freeze if its windy.

And of course at those thresholds it's a vicious circle. Increase the
wind speed and whilst that increases the amount of low level energy to
help the evaporation process, it also increases the evaporation
process that increases the chill factor (latent heat of vaporisation)
and in turn lowering the temperature in the water in the clothes.

So what we need is some way to heat some more heat energy into the
clothes to keep the temperature up and make them dry faster, even when
it's cold outside. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:09:30 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 21:02:02 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from ambient to the water in the clothes.

Ok.

I've subjected clothes to some pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen.

Ok.

I suppose if they did they'd thaw again almost instantly.

Ok.

The same basic principle applies to evaporation, the faster the wind speed the faster the evaporation.

So, for water to make the leap to vapour it must take energy from the
environment to do so. If that environment is open and therefore
potentially limitless then I could see that being the case. I'm not
sure how it might fair in an enclosed world (especially if the air was
trapped etc).

if you enclosed the air it would quickly saturate, and no further evaporation occurs

Fans dry clothes with a small fraction of the energy use of heat.

True ... but isn't that only true because it moves the water vapour
away from the clothes and increase the supply of low level energy?

I'm not clear what that means, or what significant difference it makes what's happening at the microscopic level

Whoever designs tumble dryers must be stuck in the 20th century, they're abysmally slow and inefficient compared to their potential. And they damage clothes more than necessary.

I wonder why they haven't made a wind turbine model though?

maybe have never done the basic experiments to see how windspeed, tumble speed and heat all affect drying times, with wind speed going up to much higher than today's machines.

Would it have to be much bigger to get sufficient airflow ... and

the machine no. the fan yes

sound like a jet taking off?

large fans move lots of air without that noise

I now a fan + de-humidifier make for a good low energy clothes dryer
but the separation has to be done manually. Maybe you would need to
try the concept in one of those skydiving machines first? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I've tried dehumidification with & without fans. Dehumidification does improve drying speed but not greatly, and the cost is pointless once you've got a fan.


NT

On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:18:40 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/12/2017 05:02, tabbypurr wrote:

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from
ambient to the water in the clothes. I've subjected clothes to some
pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen. I suppose if they
did they'd thaw again almost instantly.

You haven't pegged them out on a line in January when its 1C then.
They freeze if its windy.

I expect we've all done that. It's of no relevance though.