On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:35:30 +0000, F wrote:

On 14/12/2017 18:18, F wrote:
Anyone any thoughts on where I could get a replacement for one of
these:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/161457453@N02/iv5D72

I've Googled but not found anything.

Christmas lights: 240v - 4v 1VA with aÂ* spade and pin plug.

Delighted to have provided so much pre-Christmas entertainment, but I'm
still trying to find a replacement.

Nearest I can see is a 4.5v one from CPC: PW02731

You would have to cut the cable from the old one and graft it to the new;
those spade and pin plugs (NOT speaker plugs) are not that common.


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16/12/2017 13:53, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:35:30 +0000, F wrote:

On 14/12/2017 18:18, F wrote:
Anyone any thoughts on where I could get a replacement for one of
these:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/161457453@N02/iv5D72

I've Googled but not found anything.

Christmas lights: 240v - 4v 1VA with aÂ* spade and pin plug.

Delighted to have provided so much pre-Christmas entertainment, but I'm
still trying to find a replacement.

Nearest I can see is a 4.5v one from CPC: PW02731

You would have to cut the cable from the old one and graft it to the new;
those spade and pin plugs (NOT speaker plugs) are not that common.

Thanks: ordered!

--
F

In article ,
F news@nowhere wrote:
On 14/12/2017 18:18, F wrote:
Anyone any thoughts on where I could get a replacement for one of these:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/161457453@N02/iv5D72

I've Googled but not found anything.

Christmas lights: 240v - 4v 1VA with a spade and pin plug.

Delighted to have provided so much pre-Christmas entertainment, but I'm
still trying to find a replacement.

Finding an exact one with the correct plug may be difficult. If it is just
a simple power supply - and not an LED driver/sequencer - any of the
correct spec should do if you are up to fitting a matching connector(s)

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
You would have to cut the cable from the old one and graft it to the
new; those spade and pin plugs (NOT speaker plugs) are not that common.

Loads on Ebay - both line male and female. They were used on car radios
too.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 15/12/2017 14:11, wrote:
On Friday, 15 December 2017 09:06:06 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/12/2017 18:18, F wrote:
Anyone any thoughts on where I could get a replacement for one of
these:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/161457453@N02/iv5D72

I've Googled but not found anything.

Christmas lights: 240v - 4v 1VA with a spade and pin plug.


I like the way it says its a "safety isolating transformer" and then
tells you pin 1 is connected to the coil end.
This implies an autotransformer with a single coil and that is *not* an
isolating transformer.
When are you taking it apart to see what's actually inside?

complete nonsense


So what do you think it means?

Impossible to say without testing whether its actually an autotransformer or
not.

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 18/12/2017 10:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

When the cone on the left is pushing, the one on the right is pulling.
Then the brain might decide the sound is coming from behind you.

--
Max Demian

On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't

http://www.earlevel.com/main/1996/10...tion-of-phase/

The human ear is insensitive to a constant relative phase change in a static waveform. For instance, you cannot here the difference between a steady sawtooth wave (which contains all harmonic frequencies) and a waveform that contains the same harmonic content but with the phase of the harmonics delayed by various (but constant) amounts. The second waveform would not look like a sawtooth on an oscilloscope, but you would not be able to hear the difference. And this is true no matter how ridiculous you get with the phase shifting.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 13:12:10 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/12/2017 10:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:

Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

When the cone on the left is pushing, the one on the right is pulling.
Then the brain might decide the sound is coming from behind you.

what brain?

On Monday, 18 December 2017 13:12:10 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/12/2017 10:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

When the cone on the left is pushing, the one on the right is pulling.
Then the brain might decide the sound is coming from behind you.

That requires a reference point, so how do you know which one is out-of-phase.
The human ear can't detect phase all it can do is detect differncies which does NOT detect phase, because the human ear detects volume not phase, so what happens when you have two signals that are out of phase say through left and rught channels is that yuo get cancallatiuon you are NOT detecting phase but hear the result is two signals cancelling each other out and therefor lowering the amplitude, and that's it.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 13:31:15 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 13:12:10 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/12/2017 10:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:

Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

When the cone on the left is pushing, the one on the right is pulling.
Then the brain might decide the sound is coming from behind you.

what brain?

Someone with a brain, could, given the chance to work it out would know that what they are detecting is amplitude NOT phase when this occurs, this is how noise cancelling works it takes the unwanted signal inverts it (puts it out of phase) and adds.

or yuo coulkd tell me exactly what happens when you hear two signals out of phase by 180 deg, what tells you how far out of phase they are ?

Can you tell 180 from 90, from 135, I dout it as human brains can't all they can detect is amplitude or volume.

You can detect differncies but only in volume/amplitude you can NOT dertect what phase they are at.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
That requires a reference point, so how do you know which one is out-of-phase.
The human ear can't detect phase all it can do is detect differncies which does NOT detect phase, because the human ear detects volume not phase, so what happens when you have two signals that are out of phase say through left and rught channels is that yuo get cancallatiuon you are NOT detecting phase but hear the result is two signals cancelling each other out and therefor lowering the amplitude, and that's it.

Not a fan of Russ Andrews, then? Many claim to be able to hear absolute
phase. ;-)

--
*To steal ideas from *one* person is plagiarism; from many, research*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:00:45 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
That requires a reference point, so how do you know which one is out-of-phase.
The human ear can't detect phase all it can do is detect differncies which does NOT detect phase, because the human ear detects volume not phase, so what happens when you have two signals that are out of phase say through left and rught channels is that yuo get cancallatiuon you are NOT detecting phase but hear the result is two signals cancelling each other out and therefor lowering the amplitude, and that's it.

Not a fan of Russ Andrews, then? Many claim to be able to hear absolute
phase. ;-)

Oh yes all the time, who'd be daft enough to buy cheap cables.

I even get them pre-burnt in, don;t want to take any chances. :-)

http://www.russandrews.com/select-ks...s-25609995656/



--
*To steal ideas from *one* person is plagiarism; from many, research*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't


So now you are telling us that humans can't detect which direction a
sound comes from and that all the sound systems like stereo don't work.

You are harry!

As a hint if you hear a sound off to, say, the left it will be delayed
and therefore be out of phase in the right ear compared to the left ear.
You had better believe that most people can tell this and we probably
wouldn't have survived to be humans if our ancestors couldn't.

Now what else do you want to be wrong about when you are trolling?

In article 2d3800f9-3f3e-4303-9f3a-
,
says...

You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't
you , no you probbaly don't


Try the following experiment using reasonably decent
equipment.

Use a recording with a well defined stereo image for the
test. Also a mono recording of speech - a newsreader, say
(or a stereo recording where the speech originates from the
centre). It doesn't matter which.

Play both recordings with the speakers correctly phased and
note how you can clearly define the positions of all the
various instruments across the sound stage and also pinpoint
the solo voice in the centre.

Now reverse the phase on one speaker (only) and repeat the
listeng test. You will notice a loss of bass response and be
unable to locate the origin of any of the instruments or the
solo voice.

This was a standard test during the experimental stereo
broadcasts of the 1950s on Saturday mornings that used BBC
TV sound for one channel and the Third Programme for the
other.

This was preceded by the announcer speaking from the centre,
left and right of the sound stage in turn.



--

Terry

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On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:47:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't


So now you are telling us that humans can't detect which direction a
sound comes from and that all the sound systems like stereo don't work.

That is NOT phase you idiot.

Do you know the differnce between phase and amplitude ?

Didn't think so.





You are harry!

As a hint if you hear a sound off to, say, the left it will be delayed
and therefore be out of phase in the right ear compared to the left ear.

Why if the distance is the same ?
A delay does NOT mean it is out of phase.

Are yuo suggesting that thinder and lighting are out of phase and don;t happen at the same time because you see the lightning first ?



You had better believe that most people can tell this and we probably
wouldn't have survived to be humans if our ancestors couldn't.

That is nothing to do with phase.


Now what else do you want to be wrong about when you are trolling?

you're an idiot and you've got it wrong.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:50:35 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 2d3800f9-3f3e-4303-9f3a-
,
says...

You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't
you , no you probbaly don't


Try the following experiment using reasonably decent
equipment.

Use a recording with a well defined stereo image for the
test. Also a mono recording of speech - a newsreader, say
(or a stereo recording where the speech originates from the
centre). It doesn't matter which.

Play both recordings with the speakers correctly phased.

what do yuo mean by correctly phased ?


and
note how you can clearly define the positions of all the
various instruments across the sound stage and also pinpoint
the solo voice in the centre.

Now reverse the phase on one speaker (only) and repeat the
listeng test. You will notice a loss of bass response and be
unable to locate the origin of any of the instruments or the
solo voice.

this is because the amplidues are cancelled out it is how noise cancelling works.

Try this use two signals one 30 degrees out of phase with the other and see if you can tell which is which.
Which is out of phase and by how much it is out of phase.


This was a standard test during the experimental stereo
broadcasts of the 1950s on Saturday mornings that used BBC
TV sound for one channel and the Third Programme for the
other.

This was preceded by the announcer speaking from the centre,
left and right of the sound stage in turn.

But little to do with phase and detecting it.

Just like sticking yuor tongue on he mains you can not detect it's phase.
Take the label of the red, blue, yellow phases yuo can;t tell with a meter which is which, only by comparing two of them can you tell which is at peak and which insn't at that moment in time.

On 18/12/2017 16:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:47:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't


So now you are telling us that humans can't detect which direction a
sound comes from and that all the sound systems like stereo don't work.

That is NOT phase you idiot.

Do you know the differnce between phase and amplitude ?

Didn't think so.





You are harry!

As a hint if you hear a sound off to, say, the left it will be delayed
and therefore be out of phase in the right ear compared to the left ear.

Why if the distance is the same ?

You have your ears front and back then?

A delay does NOT mean it is out of phase.

Yes it does.


Are yuo suggesting that thinder and lighting are out of phase and don;t happen at the same time because you see the lightning first ?

You are an idiot for comparing the two.

You had better believe that most people can tell this and we probably
wouldn't have survived to be humans if our ancestors couldn't.

That is nothing to do with phase.

Yes it has!



Now what else do you want to be wrong about when you are trolling?

you're an idiot and you've got it wrong.

You are an idiot and you get everything wrong!

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

With a two speaker system, both speakers should be moving
towards the listener at the same time. If you have the electrical
connection to one reversed, you get the opposite, out of phase.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 16:49:23 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 16:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:47:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't


So now you are telling us that humans can't detect which direction a
sound comes from and that all the sound systems like stereo don't work.

That is NOT phase you idiot.

Do you know the differnce between phase and amplitude ?

Didn't think so.





You are harry!

As a hint if you hear a sound off to, say, the left it will be delayed
and therefore be out of phase in the right ear compared to the left ear.

Why if the distance is the same ?

You have your ears front and back then?

No at the side like most people.



A delay does NOT mean it is out of phase.

Yes it does.

So in a 3 phase system where each is out of pahse with the other which started first red, blue or green ?

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:

This was a standard test during the experimental stereo
broadcasts of the 1950s on Saturday mornings that used BBC
TV sound for one channel and the Third Programme for the
other.

And not a brilliant one given most used entirely different amps and
speakers for each channel. ;-)

Ping pong sort of worked, though.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it
shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?

Yep, if you do that with just one of the two speakers.

You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you ,

It can with a pair of stereo speakers with one with the wires transposed.

http://www.earlevel.com/main/1996/10...tion-of-phase/

The human ear is insensitive to a constant relative phase change in a
static waveform.

What you get on speakers aint a static waveform, stupid.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:

This was a standard test during the experimental stereo
broadcasts of the 1950s on Saturday mornings that used BBC
TV sound for one channel and the Third Programme for the
other.

And not a brilliant one given most used entirely different amps and
speakers for each channel. ;-)

Ping pong sort of worked, though.

Despite only aving an AM radio for the Third Programme feed,
my memories of these tests was very impressive.

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 18 December 2017 13:12:10 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/12/2017 10:59, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

When the cone on the left is pushing, the one on the right is pulling.
Then the brain might decide the sound is coming from behind you.

That requires a reference point,

Nope.

so how do you know which one is out-of-phase.

Doesnt matter. Its audibly different when they are in phase.

The human ear can't detect phase all it can do is detect differncies

And there will obviously be differences with one speaker out of phase.

which does NOT detect phase, because the human ear detects volume not
phase,

But the volume will be different with the speakers out of phase.

so what happens when you have two signals that are out of phase
say through left and rught channels is that yuo get cancallatiuon

And that means that with the two speakers out of phase, it sounds different.

you are NOT detecting phase but hear the result is two signals cancelling
each other out and therefor lowering the amplitude, and that's it.

Still means you can hear it when one speaker is out of phase.

In article 147ccbce-e895-4798-80d4-2b5a72d242c5
@googlegroups.com, says...

On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:50:35 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:


Play both recordings with the speakers correctly phased.

what do yuo mean by correctly phased ?


You really don't have clue, do you?

If you really need to have it explained to you, when playing
a mono source, the cones of both speakers move in the same
direction all the time so that the sound produced by one
speaker is IN PHASE with sound produced by the other.

If using separate speakers, the connections to the amplifier
and the speakers are usually colour coded (or marked + and
-) so it isn't rocket science to get it right.

I think it's time you joined Wodney in my kill file - you
should get on well together ...

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:01:27 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

You have your ears front and back then?

No at the side like most people.

In your case, it's the backhaul that doesn't work.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you
probbaly don't


So now you are telling us that humans can't detect which direction a sound
comes from and that all the sound systems like stereo don't work.

You are harry!

As a hint if you hear a sound off to, say, the left it will be delayed and
therefore be out of phase in the right ear compared to the left ear.

No phase involved, the noise arrives at a different time in each ear
and thats how you determine where the sound is coming from.

On 18/12/2017 17:01, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 16:49:23 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 16:20, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 15:47:59 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't


So now you are telling us that humans can't detect which direction a
sound comes from and that all the sound systems like stereo don't work.

That is NOT phase you idiot.

Do you know the differnce between phase and amplitude ?

Didn't think so.





You are harry!

As a hint if you hear a sound off to, say, the left it will be delayed
and therefore be out of phase in the right ear compared to the left ear.

Why if the distance is the same ?

You have your ears front and back then?

No at the side like most people.

So how is a source to the left at the same distance then?




A delay does NOT mean it is out of phase.

Yes it does.

So in a 3 phase system where each is out of pahse with the other which started first red, blue or green ?



You don't half look stupid when you ask questions like that.

They are all on the same shaft so they all start at the same time.

On 18/12/2017 13:24, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

So yuop don;t knopw do you.
Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?
You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you , no you probbaly don't

http://www.earlevel.com/main/1996/10...tion-of-phase/

The human ear is insensitive to a constant relative phase change in a static waveform. For instance, you cannot here the difference between a steady sawtooth wave (which contains all harmonic frequencies) and a waveform that contains the same harmonic content but with the phase of the harmonics delayed by various (but constant) amounts. The second waveform would not look like a sawtooth on an oscilloscope, but you would not be able to hear the difference. And this is true no matter how ridiculous you get with the phase shifting.


And a little further down the same article:

"Now, even if the phase is linear (simply an overall delay), we can
easily detect a phase difference if we have a reference. For instance,
you can get closer to one of your stereo speakers than the other; even
if you use the stereo balance control to even the relative loudness
between speakers, it wont sound the same as being equidistance [sic]
between them."

Andy

On 18/12/2017 18:09, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:01:27 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

You have your ears front and back then?

No at the side like most people.

In your case, it's the backhaul that doesn't work.

Thats a very very likeable word is Backhaul

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:

This was a standard test during the experimental stereo
broadcasts of the 1950s on Saturday mornings that used BBC
TV sound for one channel and the Third Programme for the
other.

And not a brilliant one given most used entirely different amps and
speakers for each channel. ;-)

Ping pong sort of worked, though.

Despite only aving an AM radio for the Third Programme feed,
my memories of these tests was very impressive.

TV sound being of course AM too in those days. In Aberdeen (where I played
with these tests) the landlines to the transmitters determined the upper
frequency cutoff - rather than the TX medium. Was quite a revelation on FM
when they did a local opt out with only a few miles of cable rather than
hundreds. ;-)

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
"Now, even if the phase is linear (simply an overall delay), we can
easily detect a phase difference if we have a reference. For instance,
you can get closer to one of your stereo speakers than the other; even
if you use the stereo balance control to even the relative loudness
between speakers, it won‘t sound the same as being equidistance [sic]
between them."

Yup. One reason why 'stereo' created by pan potting mono sources isn't
that good.

--
*I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:00:37 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

With a two speaker system, both speakers should be moving
towards the listener at the same time. If you have the electrical
connection to one reversed, you get the opposite, out of phase.

So ?
Try it.
and phase has more than just two states of being in phase or out of phase.

On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:25:59 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it
shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?

Yep, if you do that with just one of the two speakers.

You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you ,

It can with a pair of stereo speakers with one with the wires transposed.

http://www.earlevel.com/main/1996/10...tion-of-phase/

The human ear is insensitive to a constant relative phase change in a
static waveform.

What you get on speakers aint a static waveform, stupid.

And humans can't detect phase, they can tell if something sounds distorted but that doesnl;t tell then what phase the signals are at.

On 19/12/17 10:18, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:25:59 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it
shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?

Yep, if you do that with just one of the two speakers.

You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you ,

It can with a pair of stereo speakers with one with the wires transposed.

http://www.earlevel.com/main/1996/10...tion-of-phase/

The human ear is insensitive to a constant relative phase change in a
static waveform.

What you get on speakers aint a static waveform, stupid.

And humans can't detect phase, they can tell if something sounds distorted but that doesnl;t tell then what phase the signals are at.

the ear sure can tell when too sounds otherwise the same arrive in
antiphase qand cancel each other out.

Bass performance of a pair of stereo speakers is seriously ****ed if one
is in antiphase. Mind you with subwoofers these days the problem is less
noticeable.





--
€œA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
€œWe did this ourselves.€�

ۥ Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

On 19/12/17 10:16, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:00:37 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

With a two speaker system, both speakers should be moving
towards the listener at the same time. If you have the electrical
connection to one reversed, you get the opposite, out of phase.

So ?
Try it.

Have done. Many times. ****s up bass response

and phase has more than just two states of being in phase or out of phase.


Not with the same signal being fed to two speakers one of which is wired
backwards


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 10:58:34 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/12/17 10:18, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:25:59 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 18 December 2017 12:55:57 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:59:25 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it
shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

Are you saying that getting the speaker wires crossed is out of phase ?

Yep, if you do that with just one of the two speakers.

You do know that the human ear can;t detect phase don't you ,

It can with a pair of stereo speakers with one with the wires transposed.

http://www.earlevel.com/main/1996/10...tion-of-phase/

The human ear is insensitive to a constant relative phase change in a
static waveform.

What you get on speakers aint a static waveform, stupid.

And humans can't detect phase, they can tell if something sounds distorted but that doesnl;t tell then what phase the signals are at.

the ear sure can tell when too sounds otherwise the same arrive in
antiphase qand cancel each other out.

but only if they are the same and cancel each other out, and that still relies on the amplitude rather than the phase.
That's hwo noise canceling works, it doesn;t mean there;s no noise, so how would yuo tell the differnce between two signals in anti-phase (inverted or 180) from a system that is off ?



Bass performance of a pair of stereo speakers is seriously ****ed if one
is in antiphase. Mind you with subwoofers these days the problem is less
noticeable.

but you still can't tell phase, what you hear is amplitude NOT phase.

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 11:01:04 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/12/17 10:16, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 18 December 2017 17:00:37 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 15 December 2017 17:54:23 UTC, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 15/12/2017 16:06, whisky-dave wrote:
Apparently human ears can't detect the differnt phase so it shouldn;t
make a differnce.

They can certainly tell the difference if the left and right hand
channels are out of phase.

What do you mean by out of phase ?

With a two speaker system, both speakers should be moving
towards the listener at the same time. If you have the electrical
connection to one reversed, you get the opposite, out of phase.

So ?
Try it.

Have done. Many times. ****s up bass response

it ****s all freqwuencies here we go up to THz not just audio.



and phase has more than just two states of being in phase or out of phase.


Not with the same signal being fed to two speakers one of which is wired
backwards.

So what in your head measures 180 ?

you have no idea, humans ears can detect amplidue/volume NOT phase.
if you add two signals that are in phase the sound beomes louder.

That is what you're ears are detecting the resultant amplitude and that is it.

On 19/12/2017 11:23, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 10:58:34 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Bass performance of a pair of stereo speakers is seriously ****ed if one
is in antiphase. Mind you with subwoofers these days the problem is less
noticeable.

but you still can't tell phase, what you hear is amplitude NOT phase.

You only have one subwoofer so phase isn't a problem.

--
Max Demian