Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our Victorian terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical reasons, I'm going to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes (complete with weights and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk discount, so I plan to take my time.

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building control certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to involve the council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it finished.

Needless to say, if anyone has done this job which, apart from the measuring and the heavy lifting, would seem to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'll find out the hard way why DG firms want such a huge markup on timber windows.

In article ,
stuart noble writes:
Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our Victori=
an terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical reasons, I'm go=
ing to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes (complete with weight=
s and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk discount, so I plan to take =
my time.=20

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building control=
certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to involve the=
council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it finished.

I think you have to start the work within 3 years, or the application
is cancelled. Once started, you can take as long as you like.
The regs that apply are those in effect at the time you start the
work (not those at time of application). However, building regs
changes that come in after you started the work won't apply to you.

However, check your council website.

If you apply restrospectively, it costs more, and you might have
trouble if the regs have changed since you started the work and your
windows no longer conform.

I rather suspect very few people would bother with building regs
just for a couple of windows, unless the work involved more
substantial building changes which required regs approval.
However, do make sure you fit windows that conform -- check up
on current rules for ventilation, fire escape, need for toughened
glass in windows, energy efficiency, etc. and make sure you get
all that right.

Needless to say, if anyone has done this job which, apart from the measurin=
g and the heavy lifting, would seem to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'l=
l find out the hard way why DG firms want such a huge markup on timber wind=
ows.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 1:47:03 PM UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble writes:
Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our Victori=
an terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical reasons, I'm go=
ing to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes (complete with weight=
s and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk discount, so I plan to take =
my time.=20

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building control=
certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to involve the=
council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it finished.

I think you have to start the work within 3 years, or the application
is cancelled. Once started, you can take as long as you like.
The regs that apply are those in effect at the time you start the
work (not those at time of application). However, building regs
changes that come in after you started the work won't apply to you.

However, check your council website.

If you apply restrospectively, it costs more, and you might have
trouble if the regs have changed since you started the work and your
windows no longer conform.

I rather suspect very few people would bother with building regs
just for a couple of windows, unless the work involved more
substantial building changes which required regs approval.
However, do make sure you fit windows that conform -- check up
on current rules for ventilation, fire escape, need for toughened
glass in windows, energy efficiency, etc. and make sure you get
all that right.

Needless to say, if anyone has done this job which, apart from the measurin=
g and the heavy lifting, would seem to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'l=
l find out the hard way why DG firms want such a huge markup on timber wind=
ows.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Thanks Andrew.
The windows themselves are certainly up to date re the regs etc. and it's a like for like swap, so I doubt anyone will notice the difference.

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our
Victorian terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical
reasons, I'm going to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes
(complete with weights and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk
discount, so I plan to take my time.

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building
control certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to
involve the council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it
finished.

Do you really need permission to replace something like for like?
Replacing wood sash windows with some of the UPVC ones I've seen would be
a different matter.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 3:22:20 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our
Victorian terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical
reasons, I'm going to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes
(complete with weights and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk
discount, so I plan to take my time.

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building
control certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to
involve the council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it
finished.

Do you really need permission to replace something like for like?
Replacing wood sash windows with some of the UPVC ones I've seen would be
a different matter.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You can "repair" them, which includes changing the sashes, but going back to brick does need approval.
I thought about just new sashes and sill, but the price of the whole box with weights, double glazing, draught proofing and a factory finish was a much better bet.

On 26/11/17 12:01, stuart noble wrote:
Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our Victorian terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical reasons, I'm going to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes (complete with weights and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk discount, so I plan to take my time.

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building control certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to involve the council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it finished.

There is no time limit on completing work under Building Control.
However, a few insurers (Admiral) will get arsey.

Retrospecting permission is fine if you are sure the windows you are
using meet Part L (and you can prove it).

Or, 3rd option: Don't bother and if you sell the house, get indemnity
insurance. After 2 years, the LBA cannot prosecute you anyway for what
is a technical breach (failure to notify) and they won't anyway - no one
every got prosecuted for changing their windows.

Needless to say, if anyone has done this job which, apart from the measuring and the heavy lifting, would seem to be pretty straightforward. Maybe I'll find out the hard way why DG firms want such a huge markup on timber windows.

On 26/11/17 13:47, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble writes:
Plan is to gradually replace the sliding sashes at the front of our Victori=
an terraced house. There are 7 openings and, for logistical reasons, I'm go=
ing to do a couple at a time. I can collect the boxes (complete with weight=
s and DG panels) locally, and there is no bulk discount, so I plan to take =
my time.=20

Question is, do I just do them and apply for retrospective building control=
certification? As the job might take 6 months, I don't want to involve the=
council at the outset and find I'm under the cosh to get it finished.

I think you have to start the work within 3 years,

That's planning - and I think that's 2 years.

or the application
is cancelled. Once started, you can take as long as you like.

Yes.

The regs that apply are those in effect at the time you start the
work (not those at time of application). However, building regs
changes that come in after you started the work won't apply to you.

Yes.

On 26/11/2017 17:49, Tim Watts wrote:
Or, 3rd option: Don't bother and if you sell the house, get indemnity
insurance. After 2 years, the LBA cannot prosecute you anyway for what
is a technical breach (failure to notify) and they won't anyway - no one
every got prosecuted for changing their windows.

They (the various BCO's) had their own survey, sent out by the
EST (afaik) where they were asked what they would do about
non-compliance with Part-L and most said they would do nothing
unless it coincided with additional more serious problems. They
would just keep a marker on file.

I did have a link to it some point, but cannot find it.

I know of at least three houses near me where single glazed
windows have been replaced with like-for-like and I even
asked one guy who was doing the work and his attitude was
'who cares ?, the owner is paying'.

if the windows comply with Part-L to the letter, then it's
up to you if decide to pay for a pointless piece of paper.

On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 6:12:08 PM UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 26/11/2017 17:49, Tim Watts wrote:
Or, 3rd option: Don't bother and if you sell the house, get indemnity
insurance. After 2 years, the LBA cannot prosecute you anyway for what
is a technical breach (failure to notify) and they won't anyway - no one
every got prosecuted for changing their windows.

They (the various BCO's) had their own survey, sent out by the
EST (afaik) where they were asked what they would do about
non-compliance with Part-L and most said they would do nothing
unless it coincided with additional more serious problems. They
would just keep a marker on file.

I did have a link to it some point, but cannot find it.

I know of at least three houses near me where single glazed
windows have been replaced with like-for-like and I even
asked one guy who was doing the work and his attitude was
'who cares ?, the owner is paying'.

if the windows comply with Part-L to the letter, then it's
up to you if decide to pay for a pointless piece of paper.

Thanks guys. Another reason not to use installers with their FENSA scare stories.

On 27/11/17 09:09, Huge wrote:

IME, no-one gives a **** about FENSA.



Well, no normal person does.

Stupid solicitors will still kick up a fuss at sale time (been there)

But it is easily overcome (unlike perhaps doing a load of dodgy
structural work)

Huge wrote:

no-one gives a **** about FENSA.
They're trivial to forge.

Probably less trivial to forge the entry on the FENSA website

I just said "No, we don't have them all" which seemed to satisfy
everyone.
Which is what I plan to do, armed with photos showing there were lintels
in place above them, and that I did fit cavity closers where needed.

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 2:23:53 PM UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
Huge wrote:

no-one gives a **** about FENSA.
They're trivial to forge.

Probably less trivial to forge the entry on the FENSA website

I just said "No, we don't have them all" which seemed to satisfy
everyone.
Which is what I plan to do, armed with photos showing there were lintels
in place above them, and that I did fit cavity closers where needed.

I imagine I have lintels up there, but if the building has been resting on a window frame for the last 100 years, I'm in trouble anyway.

On 27/11/17 16:22, stuart noble wrote:
On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 2:23:53 PM UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
Huge wrote:

no-one gives a **** about FENSA.
They're trivial to forge.

Probably less trivial to forge the entry on the FENSA website

I just said "No, we don't have them all" which seemed to satisfy
everyone.
Which is what I plan to do, armed with photos showing there were lintels
in place above them, and that I did fit cavity closers where needed.

I imagine I have lintels up there, but if the building has been resting on a window frame for the last 100 years, I'm in trouble anyway.


It's not impossible - consider bay windows. If replacing with uPVC,
special frames are made with support poles built in.