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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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re grenfell tower fire question
Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains
meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. |
#2
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Friday, 23 June 2017 19:21:28 UTC+1, ss wrote:
Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. Depends on the details of the fridge fault. MCBs certainly don't eliminate all fires. NT |
#3
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re grenfell tower fire question
On 23/06/17 19:21, ss wrote:
Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. What trip switch? |
#4
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
... On 23/06/17 19:21, ss wrote: Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. What trip switch? The over-current or earth leakage trip-switches in the "fuse box". Or in extreme case the 60 A "company fuse" (which i think is always still an old-fashioned melting-metal fuse). But I think you *did* know that. The difficulty is when the short is not to earth and is a lower-than-normal resistance but not a complete short, so you draw a larger current (or a current through the wrong material, allowing it to heat up) but not a current that is large enough to blow/trip the cutout. |
#5
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re grenfell tower fire question
ss wrote
Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. Its not always possible for the trip in the cu to prevent a fire. For example, if the butane like refrigerant in the fridge starts to leak out due to a seal or weld failure and that is ignited by something as simple as a relay tripping normally to start the motor because its not cold enough, no cu trip is going to even notice any electrical problem until the fire melts wires and produces a short that way, by which time the fire is well alight and it doesnt matter if the mains is disconnected, the fire will keep burning. |
#6
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re grenfell tower fire question
On 23/06/17 20:05, NY wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 23/06/17 19:21, ss wrote: What trip switch? The over-current or earth leakage trip-switches in the "fuse box". Or in extreme case the 60 A "company fuse" (which i think is always still an old-fashioned melting-metal fuse). But I think you *did* know that. The difficulty is when the short is not to earth and is a lower-than-normal resistance but not a complete short, so you draw a larger current (or a current through the wrong material, allowing it to heat up) but not a current that is large enough to blow/trip the cutout. It sounded to me like the PP thought there was some magic fire detecting device... Back to the point, the fuse in the fridge's plug would be the first to go, unless there was an RCD *and* the appliance is a Class I (earthed) device (which seems likely for a metal fridge). But it's possible to start a fire with no serious overload - with the right conditions, an amp at 230V can make things extremely hot - and if the hot thing is next to a combustible thing... |
#7
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re grenfell tower fire question
On 23/06/2017 19:21, ss wrote:
Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. Not necessarily - it depends on if the fault caused it to draw too much current or allow excess earth leakage. If the answer to both those is "no", then the circuit protection will be none the wiser that things are going pear shaped elsewhere. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#8
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Friday, 23 June 2017 20:36:46 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 23/06/17 20:05, NY wrote: "Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 23/06/17 19:21, ss wrote: What trip switch? The over-current or earth leakage trip-switches in the "fuse box". Or in extreme case the 60 A "company fuse" (which i think is always still an old-fashioned melting-metal fuse). But I think you *did* know that. The difficulty is when the short is not to earth and is a lower-than-normal resistance but not a complete short, so you draw a larger current (or a current through the wrong material, allowing it to heat up) but not a current that is large enough to blow/trip the cutout. It sounded to me like the PP thought there was some magic fire detecting device... Back to the point, the fuse in the fridge's plug would be the first to go, unless there was an RCD *and* the appliance is a Class I (earthed) device (which seems likely for a metal fridge). But it's possible to start a fire with no serious overload - with the right conditions, an amp at 230V can make things extremely hot - and if the hot thing is next to a combustible thing... The bimetal cutout on the fridge compressor, the plug fuse, the MCB, the RCD, the supplier's fuse and if present (very unlikely) an AFCI are all fire preventing devices. All of them only work on a percentage of fire causing faults. NT |
#9
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re grenfell tower fire question
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#10
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Saturday, 24 June 2017 00:51:15 UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:02:56 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 23 June 2017 20:36:46 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote: On 23/06/17 20:05, NY wrote: "Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 23/06/17 19:21, ss wrote: What trip switch? The over-current or earth leakage trip-switches in the "fuse box". Or in extreme case the 60 A "company fuse" (which i think is always still an old-fashioned melting-metal fuse). But I think you *did* know that. The difficulty is when the short is not to earth and is a lower-than-normal resistance but not a complete short, so you draw a larger current (or a current through the wrong material, allowing it to heat up) but not a current that is large enough to blow/trip the cutout. It sounded to me like the PP thought there was some magic fire detecting device... Back to the point, the fuse in the fridge's plug would be the first to go, unless there was an RCD *and* the appliance is a Class I (earthed) device (which seems likely for a metal fridge). But it's possible to start a fire with no serious overload - with the right conditions, an amp at 230V can make things extremely hot - and if the hot thing is next to a combustible thing... The bimetal cutout on the fridge compressor, the plug fuse, the MCB, the RCD, the supplier's fuse and if present (very unlikely) an AFCI are all fire preventing devices. All of them only work on a percentage of fire causing faults. I've never seen an AFCI, I see they are now common in the USA and that they are prone to false tripping. AIUI the 18th will make them common here. A workaround will be needed for old arcy sparky equipment. NT |
#11
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re grenfell tower fire question
On 23/06/2017 20:05, NY wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 23/06/17 19:21, ss wrote: Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. What trip switch? The over-current or earth leakage trip-switches in the "fuse box". Or in extreme case the 60 A "company fuse" (which i think is always still an old-fashioned melting-metal fuse). But I think you *did* know that. ELCB may potentially save you if the cable chars or melts sufficiently to allow a live to earth current that trips it out. But if you are out of luck the leak goes live to neutral and a nominal 13A fuse will support something like 20A for a few minutes... Seen that happen with internally molten overloaded extension leads that haven't been unwound properly. All the ones in out village hall now have thermal cutouts to defend against potential abuse. The difficulty is when the short is not to earth and is a lower-than-normal resistance but not a complete short, so you draw a larger current (or a current through the wrong material, allowing it to heat up) but not a current that is large enough to blow/trip the cutout. It is particularly bad in those tall floor fan heaters that swivel from side to side with a 13A fuse and a cable that is forever being twisted to and fro when the thing is in use and allowed to move as designed. It isn't really a case of if it fails so much as when... -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#12
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re grenfell tower fire question
On 23/06/17 21:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/06/2017 19:21, ss wrote: Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. Not necessarily - it depends on if the fault caused it to draw too much current or allow excess earth leakage. If the answer to both those is "no", then the circuit protection will be none the wiser that things are going pear shaped elsewhere. While, assuming there was an RCD on the circuit, it is hard to believe once the fire 'took hold', the insulation wouldn't cause it to trip, the fire could easily continue to burn. The real question is, why the occupier/owner didn't take steps to contain the fire and call the fire brigade. Early reports indicate he collected items and told a neighbour, who could see the fire in his kitchen- meaning the door to his flat was open. Had the precaution of simply closing doors and windows etc. and ensuring the fire service were called, could the fire have been contained? Those being evacuated in Camden reported that there had been several fires in their block(s), all of which had been contained. This isn't an attempt to blame the tenant, he may well have simply panicked or not known what to do for whatever reason. Sadly, such things happen. |
#13
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Brian Reay" wrote in message news On 23/06/17 21:15, John Rumm wrote: On 23/06/2017 19:21, ss wrote: Not being electrically savvy but should the `trip` switch on the mains meter not have clicked in and cut the current off to prevent a fir starting. Not necessarily - it depends on if the fault caused it to draw too much current or allow excess earth leakage. If the answer to both those is "no", then the circuit protection will be none the wiser that things are going pear shaped elsewhere. While, assuming there was an RCD on the circuit, it is hard to believe once the fire 'took hold', the insulation wouldn't cause it to trip, the fire could easily continue to burn. The real question is, why the occupier/owner didn't take steps to contain the fire and call the fire brigade. Early reports indicate he collected items and told a neighbour, who could see the fire in his kitchen- meaning the door to his flat was open. Had the precaution of simply closing doors and windows etc. and ensuring the fire service were called, could the fire have been contained? Those being evacuated in Camden reported that there had been several fires in their block(s), all of which had been contained. This isn't an attempt to blame the tenant, he may well have simply panicked or not known what to do for whatever reason. Sadly, such things happen. when the transformer went in my TS520SE the amount of smoke was unbelievable but I managed to cut the power before the house RCD tripped ....... |
#14
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re grenfell tower fire question
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#15
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? -- Davey. |
#16
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Davey" wrote in message news On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? yes that .... |
#17
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). -- Johnny B Good |
#18
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT
Johnny B Good wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). Thank you. It would have been simple to include a reference to its purpose in the original message, such as: "when the transformer went in my TS520SE shortwave transceiver, ... . " -- Davey. |
#19
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 00:37:25 +0100, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT Johnny B Good wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). Thank you. It would have been simple to include a reference to its purpose in the original message, such as: "when the transformer went in my TS520SE shortwave transceiver, ... . " Agreed! :-) -- Johnny B Good |
#20
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 00:37:25 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT Johnny B Good wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). Thank you. It would have been simple to include a reference to its purpose in the original message, such as: "when the transformer went in my TS520SE shortwave transceiver, ... . " Agreed! :-) jeeezus christ I was replying to another albeit class B radio ham Brian Reay... |
#21
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:22:16 +0100, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 00:37:25 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT Johnny B Good wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). Thank you. It would have been simple to include a reference to its purpose in the original message, such as: "when the transformer went in my TS520SE shortwave transceiver, ... . " Agreed! :-) jeeezus christ I was replying to another albeit class B radio ham Brian Reay... No such thing as a class B. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#22
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Saturday, 24 June 2017 01:20:09 UTC+1, wrote:
I've never seen an AFCI, I see they are now common in the USA and that they are prone to false tripping. AIUI the 18th will make them common here. A workaround will be needed for old arcy sparky equipment. And 18th Edition Amendment 1 will introduce requirements for emergency lighting to stop people falling down stairs in darkness from the false tripping.. 18th Edition Amendment 2 will require all telecoms equipment to be supplied through UPS so that people can call 999 on their cordless phone after they've fallen down the stairs in darkness from the false tripping but not updated their installation to Amendment 1. NICEIC will introduce a new mandatory course for members "Plugging in a UPS". The Scottish Government will require all fridge-freezers in rented accommodation to be inspected annually by an accredited electrician ... oh hang on, they already do. Owain |
#23
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re grenfell tower fire question
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#24
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 11:12:24 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
All of them, or just the ones on a landlord's inventory? If it's also ones supplied by tenants (as appears to be the case in most social housing, according to people posting here), how do TPTB know which flats need inspecting? Simples. It'll be assumed that all address's have one or more of fridge or freezer or fridge/freezer. The inspection authority will be able to obtain a warrant to search any property they suspect may have an unregistered fridge, freezer or fridge/freezer. The inspection authority will also write annual threatening letters to any address that doesn't have a current record of the precense of an inspected fridge or freezer or fridge freezer. It will be up to the householder to obtain, at their cost, an Inspection Certificate from an accredited Inspection Provider. Once obtained the housholder will have to pass the certificate details to the Inspection Authority, this will only be able to be done online. Failure to submit the certificate details will result in an automatic, non-contestable, fine. Not being able to use the online submission service will not be a valid excuse for not submitting the certificate details. -- Cheers Dave. |
#26
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Bob Eager" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:22:16 +0100, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote: "Johnny B Good" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 00:37:25 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT Johnny B Good wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). Thank you. It would have been simple to include a reference to its purpose in the original message, such as: "when the transformer went in my TS520SE shortwave transceiver, ... . " Agreed! :-) jeeezus christ I was replying to another albeit class B radio ham Brian Reay... No such thing as a class B. only class Bs believe that ....tee hee |
#27
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Huge" wrote in message ... On 2017-06-25, Bob Eager wrote: On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:22:16 +0100, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote: "Johnny B Good" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 00:37:25 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT Johnny B Good wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 17:01:44 +0100, Davey wrote: On Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:27 +0100 "Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote: when the transformer went in my TS520SE Your what? For the benefit of those who lack basic google skills (or CBA to google), it's a 1970s Kenwood "Ham Radio" shortwave transciever designed to be run off mains power (120/220/240vac). Presumably he meant the mains transformer in the integrated supply which, in this case would have been a special to provide heater and HT voltages for the valves (vacuum tubes) as well as low level DC voltages for the transistorised portions (it was a 'Hybrid' design relying on valves in the final stages of the transmitter to achieve its 100W PEP RF output power rating). Thank you. It would have been simple to include a reference to its purpose in the original message, such as: "when the transformer went in my TS520SE shortwave transceiver, ... . " Agreed! :-) jeeezus christ I was replying to another albeit class B radio ham Brian Reay... So why use a broadcast medium? No such thing as a class B. Can we not do that here? worth doing it anywhere ..... |
#28
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re grenfell tower fire question
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote: On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 11:12:24 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: All of them, or just the ones on a landlord's inventory? If it's also ones supplied by tenants (as appears to be the case in most social housing, according to people posting here), how do TPTB know which flats need inspecting? Simples. It'll be assumed that all address's have one or more of fridge or freezer or fridge/freezer. The inspection authority will be able to obtain a warrant to search any property they suspect may have an unregistered fridge, freezer or fridge/freezer. The inspection authority will also write annual threatening letters to any address that doesn't have a current record of the precense of an inspected fridge or freezer or fridge freezer. It will be up to the householder to obtain, at their cost, an Inspection Certificate from an accredited Inspection Provider. Once obtained the housholder will have to pass the certificate details to the Inspection Authority, this will only be able to be done online. Failure to submit the certificate details will result in an automatic, non-contestable, fine. Not being able to use the online submission service will not be a valid excuse for not submitting the certificate details. But would a casual inspection show a fridge freezer or tumble drier etc is likely to catch fire? Bit like saying a car with a fresh MOT won't break down. -- *HOW DO THEY GET DEER TO CROSS THE ROAD ONLY AT THOSE YELLOW ROAD SIGNS? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#29
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re grenfell tower fire question
But would a casual inspection show a fridge freezer or tumble drier etc is likely to catch fire? Bit like saying a car with a fresh MOT won't break down. I think the warning is in the name HOTpoint ..... |
#30
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re grenfell tower fire question
In article , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes But would a casual inspection show a fridge freezer or tumble drier etc is likely to catch fire? Bit like saying a car with a fresh MOT won't break down. I think the warning is in the name HOTpoint ..... Didn't Beko have a similar problem not long ago? -- bert |
#31
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re grenfell tower fire question
"bert" wrote in message ... In article , Jim GM4DHJ ... writes But would a casual inspection show a fridge freezer or tumble drier etc is likely to catch fire? Bit like saying a car with a fresh MOT won't break down. I think the warning is in the name HOTpoint ..... Didn't Beko have a similar problem not long ago? yes wouldn't touch a Beko anything ..... |
#32
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 14:57:51 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article l.net, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 11:12:24 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: All of them, or just the ones on a landlord's inventory? If it's also ones supplied by tenants (as appears to be the case in most social housing, according to people posting here), how do TPTB know which flats need inspecting? Simples. It'll be assumed that all address's have one or more of fridge or freezer or fridge/freezer. The inspection authority will be able to obtain a warrant to search any property they suspect may have an unregistered fridge, freezer or fridge/freezer. The inspection authority will also write annual threatening letters to any address that doesn't have a current record of the precense of an inspected fridge or freezer or fridge freezer. It will be up to the householder to obtain, at their cost, an Inspection Certificate from an accredited Inspection Provider. Once obtained the housholder will have to pass the certificate details to the Inspection Authority, this will only be able to be done online. Failure to submit the certificate details will result in an automatic, non-contestable, fine. Not being able to use the online submission service will not be a valid excuse for not submitting the certificate details. But would a casual inspection show a fridge freezer or tumble drier etc is likely to catch fire? I suspect most "eletrical appliance" fires are damaged or otherwise abused cables and plug/sockets rather than an actual fault with the appliance(*). Just like most things failing a PAT on the visual inspection rather than what the box says when the button is pressed. (*) Note "fault" not "poor design". -- Cheers Dave. |
#33
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re grenfell tower fire question
I suspect most "eletrical appliance" fires are damaged or otherwise abused cables and plug/sockets rather than an actual fault with the appliance(*). Just like most things failing a PAT on the visual inspection rather than what the box says when the button is pressed. (*) Note "fault" not "poor design". There were some Hotpoint fridge/freezers a few years ago that apparently had a problem with the wires that went out to the doors, they would chafe, or something. Ours was similar, but not of the exact range that suffered from the problem. -- Davey. |
#34
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re grenfell tower fire question
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote: But would a casual inspection show a fridge freezer or tumble drier etc is likely to catch fire? I suspect most "eletrical appliance" fires are damaged or otherwise abused cables and plug/sockets rather than an actual fault with the appliance(*). Just like most things failing a PAT on the visual inspection rather than what the box says when the button is pressed. (*) Note "fault" not "poor design". That might apply to truly portable things - but fridge freezers and tumble driers? -- *You can't have everything, where would you put it?* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#35
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re grenfell tower fire question
On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:46:58 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I suspect most "eletrical appliance" fires are damaged or otherwise abused cables and plug/sockets rather than an actual fault with the appliance(*). Just like most things failing a PAT on the visual inspection rather than what the box says when the button is pressed. (*) Note "fault" not "poor design". That might apply to truly portable things - but fridge freezers and tumble driers? Why not? Plugged in via extension cable and/or multi socket plug stuff dangling in the space, things gradually corrode/work loose, high resistance, heat, fire... You, I and most people in here wouldn't do that sort of thing but great many people haven't a clue about electricity. -- Cheers Dave. |
#36
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re grenfell tower fire question
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote: On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:46:58 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: I suspect most "eletrical appliance" fires are damaged or otherwise abused cables and plug/sockets rather than an actual fault with the appliance(*). Just like most things failing a PAT on the visual inspection rather than what the box says when the button is pressed. (*) Note "fault" not "poor design". That might apply to truly portable things - but fridge freezers and tumble driers? Why not? Plugged in via extension cable and/or multi socket plug stuff dangling in the space, things gradually corrode/work loose, high resistance, heat, fire... These were newly refurbished flats. With, I'd guess, enough sockets for the normal kitchen stuff - and in the right place. I You, I and most people in here wouldn't do that sort of thing but great many people haven't a clue about electricity. It's mostly AV and computer stuff that ends up on extension leads. Kitchens tend to be much better in that respect. -- *Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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re grenfell tower fire question
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article l.net, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:46:58 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: I suspect most "eletrical appliance" fires are damaged or otherwise abused cables and plug/sockets rather than an actual fault with the appliance(*). Just like most things failing a PAT on the visual inspection rather than what the box says when the button is pressed. (*) Note "fault" not "poor design". That might apply to truly portable things - but fridge freezers and tumble driers? Why not? Plugged in via extension cable and/or multi socket plug stuff dangling in the space, things gradually corrode/work loose, high resistance, heat, fire... These were newly refurbished flats. With, I'd guess, enough sockets for the normal kitchen stuff - and in the right place. I You, I and most people in here wouldn't do that sort of thing but great many people haven't a clue about electricity. It's mostly AV and computer stuff that ends up on extension leads. Kitchens tend to be much better in that respect. Even sillier than you usually manage, and that’s saying something. |
#38
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re grenfell tower fire question
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
These were newly refurbished flats. With, I'd guess, enough sockets for the normal kitchen stuff - and in the right place. Other than new windows and possibly new heating, was anything else done inside the individual flats? |
#39
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re grenfell tower fire question
In message , at 07:41:08 on Tue, 27
Jun 2017, Andy Burns remarked: These were newly refurbished flats. With, I'd guess, enough sockets for the normal kitchen stuff - and in the right place. Other than new windows and possibly new heating, was anything else done inside the individual flats? The former galley kitchen and lounge were converted into a kitchen/diner. I'd be surprised if they didn't also have new bathrooms. -- Roland Perry |
#40
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re grenfell tower fire question
In article , Andy Burns
writes Dave Plowman (News) wrote: These were newly refurbished flats. With, I'd guess, enough sockets for the normal kitchen stuff - and in the right place. Other than new windows and possibly new heating, was anything else done inside the individual flats? Hopefully as they spent £70k per flat compared to £50k next door. -- bert |
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