On Thursday, 22 June 2017 09:02:36 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/06/17 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:
On 21/06/17 20:24, Tim Lamb wrote:

Might as well make it a forum and take money for advertising?


Ugh! Forums are horrid.

No, they are very very good actually.

except they dont get to be quite so free speech

Forums are single points of failure and thus seldom last long term. Any other venue would also mean splitting this group, not a good idea. I'd rule out any separate forum.

Also forums are invariably moderated to varying extents, and the nature of such moderation kills off 99% of them. As someone pointed out moderators just lose the plot 99% of times.


NT

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Someone mentioned this the other day...


Take a look at uk.rec.cycling and uk.rec.cycling.moderated.

At one time uk.rec,cycling was a useful group offering useful information
and general discussion on cycling issues. It was then wrecked by people
posting inflammatory material along with a general insistence that all cyclists
are fools and that bicycles are simply toys (Thanks TMH for that one) Unfortunately
ever since cycling became popular again, there's a new breed of self-righteous
equipment-obsessed born-again cyclists who maybe almost invite such treatment.

Anyway you know a group is in real trouble when a good number of the thread
titles are ALL IN CAPS.

As result uk.rec.cycling.moderated was set up. Taking a quick look just
now, either the mods are all on holiday or activity has really dropped off.
As there are only one or two posts a day, if that. And on some days none at all.
While the range of topics seems very limited and discussions seem to be
limited to the same group of regulars.

The contrast with uk.legal.moderated, which is a very busy group, and generates
lots of threads on the net.news.moderation group, is striking.



michael adams

....

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 10:48:23 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 22/06/2017 09:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Getting some new blood would be nice and the younger do seem to like
web based "forums" but does anybody under 30 actually do any DIY more
advanced than a flatpack bookcase?

yes they do. Far less than our generations, but yes.

My poll[1] shows not a single one of those who do is aware of Usenet or
GG, or would dream of using them on their phones.

[1] non-random, non-stratified, sample size = 3 DIY-ers

Yep, no youngster wants anything to do with a text only medium. It's nowhere near loaded with all the distracting crap they require. None are willing to try it to discover that it's only the garbage that's gone.

If we have a portal maybe it could allow posting pics, then a fair number of posts here would direct people to it. FWIW those links might also appear on the home owners hub site, or whatever it's called.


NT

On 22/06/2017 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:
On 21/06/17 20:24, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
Someone mentioned this the other day...

I've run nntp servers before, admittedly 15 years ago - but a simple
single server "islanded" setup is not hard in itself.

I am not proposing adding to the USENET hierarchy - I'm proposing a
single server. The traffic and number of users is low enough for that
to work.

Pros:

We could moderate and kill OT stuff and obnoxiousness whist
whitelisting anyone who posts reasonable stuff;

Could keep all the leeching web portals off, by force if necessary;

Cons:

I/we have to run a server;

Some people have to be willing to moderate;

Would we need our own properly done web portal to make it popular and
capture new blood?


Opinions please

Might as well make it a forum and take money for advertising?


Ugh! Forums are horrid.

While in many cases true, its what many people know these days, and
hence having one *in addition* to the the usenet group (which is
mirrored both ways) might not be a bad thing. That way if you want
access in the current way you still have it.

In some ways it seems like a natural extension of the faq / wiki site.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 22/06/2017 09:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Getting some new blood would be nice and the younger do seem to like
web based "forums" but does anybody under 30 actually do any DIY more
advanced than a flatpack bookcase?

My poll[1] shows not a single one of those who do is aware of Usenet or GG, or would
dream of using them on their phones.


Posting on Usenet, even assuming somebody knows about it at all
involves jumping through two further hoops as compared with posting
on a web portal.

Even explaining to someone the difference between a news server and
a news reader is difficult enough, never mind trying to persuade them
to subscribe to the one, and then install the second.

Basically as with a lot of things when a second best solution is given to
people on a plate, very few people are going to take the trouble to
look for anything better.

And in any case as NT has pointed out, nowadays its very difficult to argue that
a text based medium based on 8 bit ASCII is in any way superior to one providing
hi-res pictures or youtube videos of fluffy kittens at the click of a mouse.


michael adams

....

On 22/06/17 10:47, bm wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el art�culo , Tim Watts
escribi�:

Opinions please

I like the idea, but it fragments the DIY audience at a time when usenet
is already contracting fast. You'd have to find people willing to
moderate.

It isn't hard to make uk.d-i-y usable with killfiling and filtering.
Anything posted, and followed up to, by Wodney, Wilkinson, TNP and harry
kills off 90% of the rubbish.

That's a tad harsh, Mike
Wodney? LOL.


Well Tomlin**** is next on the plonk list anyway

Works for me if I simply don't see his racist bigoted drivel

--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

Tim Lamb formulated on Thursday :
Kipling's Stalky and Co has a bit about *baiting* and *rises* which I didn't
understand when first read (teenager) but see it happening all the time in
here. Basically, if you don't respond, the baiter loses. He will likely come
back with something more outrageous and eventually appear very silly.

I plonk the serial offenders and that would work fine, if everyone did
the same or at least ignored their posts, but they can't help
themselves and reply - then we all get to see it.


Off Topic posts can be interesting so long as they don't destroy the
informative nature and original purpose of the group.

Off topic posts are absolutely fine with me.

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:56:25 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:



Opinions please

It's a no from me. Still using a very old reader. "Watch threads"
means quick reading through, just using space bar to advance. "Keep
posts" gives me my own little library of items of interest to me.

I subscribe to about 30 groups, some are better than others but
uk.d-i-y seems a good catchall for anything practical.

Forums are ok but nowhere near as slick and invariably I end up with a
"notify when someone posts" email check box which doesn't always work.

I'm still on a couple of email list systems, again very easy to keep
abreast of topics without having to go searching.

It is noticeable though that the overall quality of postings and help
on usenet has dropped over the years. Letting the young know how to
set up Usenet and Email Lists would only make it worse, full of LOLS,
emoticons and wasteful selfies.

Plenty of free image sites if one is needed. Shame the binaries have
gone LOL!!


--
AnthonyL

On 6/22/2017 2:15 AM, Graham. wrote:



Do you know of any other moderated newsgroup still running?

uk.radio amateur moderated
uk.legal moderated

I can't seem to get ulm any more on my Plusnet feed. I don't *think* I
have ever posted anything unreasonable to them. (uk.legal seems to be
full of idiots).

In message , Tim Watts
writes

Opinions please

I'm not techie enough to know exactly what is being proposed here, but
to me, there are two options - Usenet or anything web based. Trying to
combine the two, or run two in parallel is the stuff of nightmares.

I can see that staying with Usenet, but moderated as uklm has
advantages, but not convinced the advantages outweigh the disadvantages
such as needing volunteer moderators who really should be on duty 24/7.
uklm is an excellent group, but much less traffic than here (because it
is moderated?), and it does or can take hours for messages to appear,
whereas here, conversations can almost be instantaneous.

I suppose some sort of forum is possible, but my view is it might as
well be a Facebook group. Either way, I wouldn't bother. Sorry.

Bottom line? This group is still active, and works well with use of
delete buttons and killfiles for those in need.
--
Graeme

AnthonyL wrote:



Plenty of free image sites if one is needed. Shame the binaries have
gone LOL!!

The binaries are flourishing - you just need to pay a little more to
subscribe to a news server that carries binary groups.

--

Roger Hayter

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:38:54 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/06/17 20:24, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
Someone mentioned this the other day...

====snip====



Opinions please

Might as well make it a forum and take money for advertising?


Ugh! Forums are horrid.

+1 (AoL, if you prefer). :-(

Many years ago, when Zetnet sold out to that asset stripping company,
Breathe Networks Ltd (Spit!), its dispersed membership tried to sustain
the community of "Zetnutters" that had been created by that ISP's closed
newsgroups with a zetnet forum created during zetnet's death throes as BNL
ineptly buggered up zetnet's USP (slowly on account BNL's technical staff
seemed to be a bunch of ignorant ****wits - I got an extra 12 months use
out of zetnet's news server for free before it was given the final coupé
de grace).

During that final troubled year, I joined the zetnet users' forum to get
help with 'work-around' solutions to accessing the USP of zetnet's news
server. I found it such a pain to log into just this one forum that more
or less as soon as BNL had finally killed off the news server, I gave up
trying to stay in touch with my fellow zetnutters.

Quite frankly, I can't understand how some folk manage to stay
subscribed to more than two or three such fora without 'cheating' by
simplifying/automating their 'secure' login procedures, let alone getting
to grips with the rather klunky and disparate navigation algorithms
employed.

Usenet and the various client news reader software may not be a perfect
solution but at least it scales well, unlike the web browser accessed
fora, each with their own peculiar login and navigation requirements
which don't (scale, that is!).

The idiot posters and trolls aren't really a problem for those of us
with enough common sense to make good use of the kill filter file (and
the 'ignore thread' file if your news reader client has such an option).
Failing all that, it's easy enough to ignore the postings of trolls and
idiots and the urge to make a 'Knee Jerk Response' in a futile attempt to
'educate the idiots and trolls' of 'the truth'. As one of my friends,
decades ago, was so fond of saying, "It's like trying to educate pork.".

This business of dealing with idiots and trolls might seem like a lot of
hard work - it isn't - but trying to participate in more than two or
three web fora is even more 'hard work' imho. And, what's worse is that
many of the discussions of a 'technical nature' have contributors who
would by comparison make the likes of Rod Speed and TNP look like
geniuses!!! Who'd have thought! :-(

When you've been directed to as many such 'technical fora' in my
googling for solutions to various computer related problems as I have
over the past decade or more, you soon learn 'to bite your lip' as you
realise the futility of even trying to contribute a myth busting fact to
any of these fora. It's been good training in how to make best use of
usenet. :-)

Moderation might seem like a solution to the problem of idiots and
trolls but, quite frankly, this 'cure' can often turn out to be worse
than 'the disease'. After all, there's no guarantee that the moderators
will be any less ill informed or opinionated than the idiots and trolls
it's meant to keep at bay. It's far better, imho, to retain the "Valour
is the better part of discretion." principle in the hands of the
individual contributors rather than leave this in the hands of a select
elite.

--
Johnny B Good

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:21:44 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/06/2017 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:
On 21/06/17 20:24, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
Someone mentioned this the other day...

I've run nntp servers before, admittedly 15 years ago - but a simple
single server "islanded" setup is not hard in itself.

I am not proposing adding to the USENET hierarchy - I'm proposing a
single server. The traffic and number of users is low enough for that
to work.

Pros:

We could moderate and kill OT stuff and obnoxiousness whist
whitelisting anyone who posts reasonable stuff;

Could keep all the leeching web portals off, by force if necessary;

Cons:

I/we have to run a server;

Some people have to be willing to moderate;

Would we need our own properly done web portal to make it popular and
capture new blood?


Opinions please

Might as well make it a forum and take money for advertising?


Ugh! Forums are horrid.

While in many cases true, its what many people know these days, and
hence having one *in addition* to the the usenet group (which is
mirrored both ways) might not be a bad thing. That way if you want
access in the current way you still have it.

In some ways it seems like a natural extension of the faq / wiki site.

I don't believe that splitting this group with a forum would be a good move at all. But perhaps one could present a ukdiy portal that's as easy to access as a forum. Easier in fact,by not splitting it into lots of different sub-areas.


NT

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:28:46 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 22/06/2017 09:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Getting some new blood would be nice and the younger do seem to like
web based "forums" but does anybody under 30 actually do any DIY more
advanced than a flatpack bookcase?

My poll[1] shows not a single one of those who do is aware of Usenet or GG, or would
dream of using them on their phones.


Posting on Usenet, even assuming somebody knows about it at all
involves jumping through two further hoops as compared with posting
on a web portal.

Even explaining to someone the difference between a news server and
a news reader is difficult enough, never mind trying to persuade them
to subscribe to the one, and then install the second.

Basically as with a lot of things when a second best solution is given to
people on a plate, very few people are going to take the trouble to
look for anything better.

And in any case as NT has pointed out, nowadays its very difficult to argue that
a text based medium based on 8 bit ASCII is in any way superior to one providing
hi-res pictures or youtube videos of fluffy kittens at the click of a mouse.


michael adams

That is precisely not what I said.


NT

On 22/06/2017 14:27, wrote:
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:21:44 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/06/2017 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:
On 21/06/17 20:24, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim
Watts writes
Someone mentioned this the other day...

I've run nntp servers before, admittedly 15 years ago - but a
simple single server "islanded" setup is not hard in itself.

I am not proposing adding to the USENET hierarchy - I'm
proposing a single server. The traffic and number of users is
low enough for that to work.

Pros:

We could moderate and kill OT stuff and obnoxiousness whist
whitelisting anyone who posts reasonable stuff;

Could keep all the leeching web portals off, by force if
necessary;

Cons:

I/we have to run a server;

Some people have to be willing to moderate;

Would we need our own properly done web portal to make it
popular and capture new blood?


Opinions please

Might as well make it a forum and take money for advertising?


Ugh! Forums are horrid.

While in many cases true, its what many people know these days,
and hence having one *in addition* to the the usenet group (which
is mirrored both ways) might not be a bad thing. That way if you
want access in the current way you still have it.

In some ways it seems like a natural extension of the faq / wiki
site.

I don't believe that splitting this group with a forum would be a
good move at all. But perhaps one could present a ukdiy portal that's
as easy to access as a forum. Easier in fact,by not splitting it into
lots of different sub-areas.

I was not suggesting splitting at all - quite the reverse; providing a
more accessible interface to the group that we control and configure.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:28:46 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

And in any case as NT has pointed out, nowadays its very difficult to argue that
a text based medium based on 8 bit ASCII is in any way superior to one providing
hi-res pictures or youtube videos of fluffy kittens at the click of a mouse.




michael adams

That is precisely not what I said.

No of course you didn't Rod; sorry NT

wrote in message
...

Yep, no youngster wants anything to do with a text only medium. It's nowhere near
loaded with all the distracting crap they require


michael adams

....

On 22/06/2017 12:35, newshound wrote:
On 6/22/2017 2:15 AM, Graham. wrote:



Do you know of any other moderated newsgroup still running?

uk.radio amateur moderated
uk.legal moderated

I can't seem to get ulm any more on my Plusnet feed. I don't *think* I
have ever posted anything unreasonable to them. (uk.legal seems to be
full of idiots).

ulm works well IME.

At first my posts weren't getting through because I hadn't followed
certain rules (naming names or something, I forget), but once I got the
hang of it, all's well. The moderators seem to update a few times a day.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:56:25 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Someone mentioned this the other day...

I've run nntp servers before, admittedly 15 years ago - but a simple
single server "islanded" setup is not hard in itself.

I am not proposing adding to the USENET hierarchy - I'm proposing a
single server. The traffic and number of users is low enough for that to
work.

Pros:

We could moderate and kill OT stuff and obnoxiousness whist whitelisting
anyone who posts reasonable stuff;

Could keep all the leeching web portals off, by force if necessary;

Cons:

I/we have to run a server;

Some people have to be willing to moderate;

Would we need our own properly done web portal to make it popular and
capture new blood?


Opinions please

Moderated groups are like forums. The opinions have to be similar to the admin's. Stupid idea.

Un-moderated groups, using a killfile for the idiots, that's what everyone should do.

--
Yellatio: Really loud oral sex

On 22/06/2017 13:36, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:38:54 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 21/06/17 20:24, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
Someone mentioned this the other day...

====snip====



Opinions please

Might as well make it a forum and take money for advertising?


Ugh! Forums are horrid.

+1 (AoL, if you prefer). :-(


Quite frankly, I can't understand how some folk manage to stay
subscribed to more than two or three such fora without 'cheating' by
simplifying/automating their 'secure' login procedures, let alone getting
to grips with the rather klunky and disparate navigation algorithms
employed.

Usenet and the various client news reader software may not be a perfect
solution but at least it scales well, unlike the web browser accessed
fora, each with their own peculiar login and navigation requirements
which don't (scale, that is!).

+1

However I also accept that we are missing potential contributors because
we don't have a (good) web based way of accessing the group for those
that are not familiar with usenet etc. If you have the web then you need
to retain the newsgroup to keep all players happy.

The idiot posters and trolls aren't really a problem for those of us
with enough common sense to make good use of the kill filter file (and
the 'ignore thread' file if your news reader client has such an option).
Failing all that, it's easy enough to ignore the postings of trolls and
idiots and the urge to make a 'Knee Jerk Response' in a futile attempt to
'educate the idiots and trolls' of 'the truth'. As one of my friends,
decades ago, was so fond of saying, "It's like trying to educate pork.".

aka "Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it will only upset the pig and
frustrate you!"

Dealing with the spam and common trolls is easy enough (I find simply
have a filter to mark their posts as "read" is adequate most cases, with
the occasional kill sub thread for a few).

However dealing with the general petulance of some posters who
historically were capable of posting interesting content is a slightly
more tricky proposition. ISTM that having a much greater flow of of new
(at least loosely) "on topic" content would go a long way to help. Even
the most die hard "my os/political party/religion/choice of sandpaper is
superior to all yours" type can usually make a decent conversation once
they forget to climb on their personal soap box.

I don't see that we will find many of them by attracting new posters to
usenet.

This business of dealing with idiots and trolls might seem like a lot of
hard work - it isn't - but trying to participate in more than two or
three web fora is even more 'hard work' imho. And, what's worse is that
many of the discussions of a 'technical nature' have contributors who
would by comparison make the likes of Rod Speed and TNP look like
geniuses!!! Who'd have thought! :-(

When you've been directed to as many such 'technical fora' in my
googling for solutions to various computer related problems as I have
over the past decade or more, you soon learn 'to bite your lip' as you
realise the futility of even trying to contribute a myth busting fact to
any of these fora. It's been good training in how to make best use of
usenet. :-)

;-)


Moderation might seem like a solution to the problem of idiots and
trolls but, quite frankly, this 'cure' can often turn out to be worse
than 'the disease'. After all, there's no guarantee that the moderators
will be any less ill informed or opinionated than the idiots and trolls
it's meant to keep at bay. It's far better, imho, to retain the "Valour
is the better part of discretion." principle in the hands of the
individual contributors rather than leave this in the hands of a select
elite.

Indeed, and also in this day and age one takes the risk of no longer
being seen as a "common carrier" if you have moderation in place, and
then someone moans that you did not moderate something (they think) you
should have.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 22/06/2017 09:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Getting some new blood would be nice and the younger do seem to like
web based "forums" but does anybody under 30 actually do any DIY more
advanced than a flatpack bookcase?

My poll[1] shows not a single one of those who do is aware of Usenet or
GG, or would dream of using them on their phones.

[1] non-random, non-stratified, sample size = 3 DIY-ers

Usenet was never universally liked either. Or indeed ever used by plenty
early computer types.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
wrote:
Forums are single points of failure and thus seldom last long term

I really don't know where you get that idea from.

I read several forums - car related - which started out text only based
before becoming a forum. All are still running and moderately busy. Unlike
the text only side which is moribund.

But all of these sort of forums are moderated in some way - if only to
block spam.

--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
wrote:
If we have a portal maybe it could allow posting pics, then a fair
number of posts here would direct people to it. FWIW those links might
also appear on the home owners hub site, or whatever it's called.

How would that be any better than just posting a link here to Photobucket,
etc?

The difference with a web forum is any link like than can appear as the
actual picture in your post - without the forum server having to store the
pic.

--
*WHY IS THERE AN EXPIRATION DATE ON SOUR CREAM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
And in any case as NT has pointed out, nowadays its very difficult to
argue that a text based medium based on 8 bit ASCII is in any way
superior to one providing hi-res pictures or youtube videos of fluffy
kittens at the click of a mouse.

You don't even need to click on a mouse on any forum I've ever seen. Your
browser inserts the picture in the text.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 14:46:39 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:28:46 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

And in any case as NT has pointed out, nowadays its very difficult to argue that
a text based medium based on 8 bit ASCII is in any way superior to one providing
hi-res pictures or youtube videos of fluffy kittens at the click of a mouse.




michael adams

That is precisely not what I said.

No of course you didn't Rod; sorry NT

tabbypurr wrote in message
...

Yep, no youngster wants anything to do with a text only medium. It's nowhere near
loaded with all the distracting crap they require

I see you have a basic comprehension problem.
ISTR you did say something constructive once.

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 14:46:39 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:28:46 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

And in any case as NT has pointed out, nowadays its very difficult to argue that
a text based medium based on 8 bit ASCII is in any way superior to one providing
hi-res pictures or youtube videos of fluffy kittens at the click of a mouse.




michael adams

That is precisely not what I said.

No of course you didn't Rod; sorry NT

tabbypurr wrote in message
...

Yep, no youngster wants anything to do with a text only medium. It's nowhere near
loaded with all the distracting crap they require

I see you have a basic comprehension problem.

There is no comprehension problem UK.Rod. Both statements mean exactly the same.

Your posting style with one and two word comments is now very close to Rod Speed's.

You're almost turning yourself into a British version in fact, UK.Rod.

Rod Speed is easily avoided . You on the other hand are equally adept at wasting
people's time to no good purpose.

Anyone pointing the finger, as you were doing towards Rod Speed is simply
trying to divert attention away from themselves. This is hardly a blinding
revelation; but it appears to be one that you're blissfully unaware of
yourself.

ISTR you did say something constructive once.

Given the obviously parlous state of your memory and your propensity to contradict
yourself on a regular basis I'm unable to place any value in that statement
I'm afraid.

So your pathetic attempt at creepy crawling has all been in vain.


michael adams

....

"newshound" wrote in message
...
On 6/22/2017 2:15 AM, Graham. wrote:



Do you know of any other moderated newsgroup still running?

uk.radio amateur moderated
uk.legal moderated

I can't seem to get ulm any more on my Plusnet feed.

That's strange. I'm on Plusnet on the news.plus.net server, which is
actually rebadged Gignews, and get ULM o.k.

I can also get it on Eternal September. Which I only use in
emergencies as posts made to this group don't always show
up on ES for some reason.


michael adams

....

On 22/06/2017 14:44, John Rumm wrote:

I was not suggesting splitting at all - quite the reverse; providing a
more accessible interface to the group that we control and configure.

It wouldn't hurt to put a *few* ads on it either to pay for the server
and bandwidth.

On 22/06/2017 12:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well Tomlin**** is next on the plonk list anyway

Works for me if I simply don't see his racist bigoted drivel


Pot, kettle, dark colour spring to mind.

On 22/06/2017 18:58, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/06/2017 14:44, John Rumm wrote:

I was not suggesting splitting at all - quite the reverse; providing a
more accessible interface to the group that we control and configure.

It wouldn't hurt to put a *few* ads on it either to pay for the server
and bandwidth.

Yup, could work... spare revenue could be used for tool givaways or
similar...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 21:11:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 22/06/2017 19:31, John Rumm wrote:

Yup, could work... spare revenue could be used for tool givaways or
similar...


That prompts the thought that a website might provide a platform for
reviews of tools, fixings, etc. sent to the webmaster(s) by
manufacturers/importers keen to reach a growing audience.

Well, it seems to work for some pretty odd sites which review IT kit

That only works if you positively review almost everything. And that's impossible unless the reviews are just cobblers.


NT

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
Moderation always seems like a good idea to some, but it invariably it
isn't.
Separating out the on topic stuff from the off topic stuff is easy with a
proper
newsreader. Killfiles for the odd few eliminate most of the problems
except
those that seem to want to reply to the morons. Cross posting and
infiltraton
from previously destroyed groups is an ongoing problem. The former easy
to
kill, the latter just a matter of time to identify the ******s.

But leave it long enough and a few will be behind bars for life following
road
rage killing of cyclists (with ample evidence of pre-meditation by the
bucket
load in their postings)

One will hopefully be sectioned/kneecapped/buried alive in the desert by a
biker
gang for being abnormal even for Australia

Meanwhile a few might eventually become bored of posting rants and a few
will be
thumped into a coma by fine upstanding citiizens for their obnoxious
fascist/socialist/racist views.

Some may fall victim to renewable energy issues (fall off roof, PV DC
shock,
beaten up for driving up energy prices, freeze/suffocate/burn in their
bunkers)

Some will become too old /unfit and just die off

As for attracting new blood then home DIY is IMHO close to dead, most
can't
afford homes to buy, those that can afford it are so incapable they 'get
someone
in'

So you are left with those that have some degree of DIY skills, getting
older
and less capable and It could be that those long despised forum originated
posts
come to dominate this newsgroup in years to come.

I liked that ....you could have been talking about amateur radio

On 22/06/2017 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:
Ugh! Forums are horrid.

Mr shouty sold MoneyStupid.com or whatever it was called for
a nice big sum.

On 22/06/2017 21:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 21:11:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 22/06/2017 19:31, John Rumm wrote:

Yup, could work... spare revenue could be used for tool givaways or
similar...


That prompts the thought that a website might provide a platform for
reviews of tools, fixings, etc. sent to the webmaster(s) by
manufacturers/importers keen to reach a growing audience.

Well, it seems to work for some pretty odd sites which review IT kit

That only works if you positively review almost everything. And that's impossible unless the reviews are just cobblers.

IMHO the more intelligent reviewers simply shift the scale - much as
NASA did with condoms when they offered astronauts a choice between
"large, gigantic, or humongous" rather than "small, medium, or large".


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:16:51 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 22/06/2017 21:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 22 June 2017 21:11:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 22/06/2017 19:31, John Rumm wrote:

Yup, could work... spare revenue could be used for tool givaways or
similar...


That prompts the thought that a website might provide a platform for
reviews of tools, fixings, etc. sent to the webmaster(s) by
manufacturers/importers keen to reach a growing audience.

Well, it seems to work for some pretty odd sites which review IT kit

That only works if you positively review almost everything. And that's impossible unless the reviews are just cobblers.

IMHO the more intelligent reviewers simply shift the scale - much as
NASA did with condoms when they offered astronauts a choice between
"large, gigantic, or humongous" rather than "small, medium, or large".

So not worth having if it's free becomes not the number one. Makes the reviews of no value.


NT

On 22/06/2017 21:03, The Other Mike wrote:

As for attracting new blood then home DIY is IMHO close to dead, most can't

I am not sure that is true. There seems to be quite flourishing "maker"
movement at the moment, and lots of growth in online content to satisfy
that appetite.

afford homes to buy, those that can afford it are so incapable they 'get someone
in'

That is true, and it indicates that the nature of what people DIY may
change - i.e. be less home improvement focussed, but that does not mean
DIY stops altogether. We will see far more crossover stuff that features
electronics, software, CAD, CAM, CNC etc as well as more traditional
skills.

So you are left with those that have some degree of DIY skills, getting older
and less capable and It could be that those long despised forum originated posts
come to dominate this newsgroup in years to come.

They have been about for many years now - starting with diybanter and
similar. There does not seem to have been much growth in posts from
those sources as a proportion of the total though it seems to me. I get
the impression that many of the forums are poor at getting responses
back to the OP and hence they soon lose interest.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

En el artículo . com,
bm escribió:

That's a tad harsh, Mike
Wodney? LOL.

Heh.

He lost his entertainment value in, ooh, about 1994.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

Tim Watts wrote:

Opinions please

I don't generally like the idea of moderated groups, but find that
uk.legal.m does tend to work reasonably well.

I think an islanded group would find it hard to attract anyone beyond
the regulars here who "know" the other regulars, have their own ideas
about what's on/off topic, who needs kill-filing, it's the nature of the
beast ...

dennis@home wrote:

If we were running a server it could allow images to be posted.
Most modern news readers can cope with images.
I suppose it could force font color=#0f0 for weatherlawyer's rumblings

John Rumm wrote:

Something that could sit alongside the existing web site and enable
discussion there could be good. It could act as a gateway to existing
usenet users, bridging conversation here

A few years ago I noticed an extremely impressive proof of concept web
frontend to usenet, then it disappeared, seems it moved here

http://news.nemoweb.net

and is open-sourced ...

RJH wrote:

newshound wrote:

I can't seem to get ulm any more on my Plusnet feed.

It's still in plusnet's (outsourced) feed.

ulm works well IME.

At first my posts weren't getting through because I hadn't followed
certain rules (naming names or something, I forget), but once I got the
hang of it, all's well. The moderators seem to update a few times a day.

Regulars who don't post anything contentious (even if they don't post
any weighty legal answers) get whitelisted and then replies flow more
freely.