Hi

My plumber will be plumbing my shower booster pump (Stuart Turner
Monsoon twin impeller 2.25 bar) to my bath shower mixer this weekend.
However, he has said that he does not do electrics. He says, (and I
agree with him in theory), that I just need to get it wired up at a
later stage to the mains and it will work.

My question is, do I need to worry about any possible leaks occurring
after the pump is switched on, or is it the case that if there are any
leaks (i.e. incorrectly plumbed), that they will show up whether the
pump is on or off. If its possible, I obviously need to have it
working while he is there, so he can fix any leaks.

My worry is that when the pump is on, obviously the water will be
being pumped out of the outlet pipes at a much higher pressure, and
that this might cause leaks to appear that would not ordinarily be
there when operating at normal (non pumped & gravity fed) hot and cold
pressures.

I have very little plumbing knowledge, and so apologies if this is a
stupid question.

Cheers
GAZ

My question is, do I need to worry about any possible leaks occurring
after the pump is switched on, or is it the case that if there are any
leaks (i.e. incorrectly plumbed), that they will show up whether the
pump is on or off. If its possible, I obviously need to have it
working while he is there, so he can fix any leaks.

I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However, can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end of the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Cheers, Rob.

On 03/02/2004 Ghazali opined:-
Hi

My plumber will be plumbing my shower booster pump (Stuart Turner
Monsoon twin impeller 2.25 bar) to my bath shower mixer this weekend.
However, he has said that he does not do electrics. He says, (and I
agree with him in theory), that I just need to get it wired up at a
later stage to the mains and it will work.

My question is, do I need to worry about any possible leaks occurring
after the pump is switched on, or is it the case that if there are any
leaks (i.e. incorrectly plumbed), that they will show up whether the
pump is on or off. If its possible, I obviously need to have it
working while he is there, so he can fix any leaks.

My worry is that when the pump is on, obviously the water will be
being pumped out of the outlet pipes at a much higher pressure, and
that this might cause leaks to appear that would not ordinarily be
there when operating at normal (non pumped & gravity fed) hot and cold
pressures.

I have very little plumbing knowledge, and so apologies if this is a
stupid question.

Cheers
GAZ

The pressure will obviously be more with the pump running, therefore
more chance of leaks. I would be inclined to fit a 13amp plug on the
pump system and plug it into an extension to try it. Be very careful of
the earthing arrangements and do not be tempted to do any more than
test it with this arrangement.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However, can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end of the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

I would be inclined to fit a 13amp plug on the pump system and
plug it into an extension to try it. Be very careful of the
earthing arrangements and do not be tempted to do any more than
test it with this arrangement.

Why?

I had mine plugged into a 13A socket. The socket was RCD protected to 30mA,
although obviously not itself in the bathroom, as having a bathroom socket
is not allowed.

Christian.

The pressure will obviously be more with the pump running, therefore
more chance of leaks. I would be inclined to fit a 13amp plug on the
pump system and plug it into an extension to try it. Be very careful of
the earthing arrangements and do not be tempted to do any more than
test it with this arrangement.

It depends on where the pump is.

Mine is in the airing cupboard in a bedroom. I changed the immersion heater
FCU to a fused one, spurred off a 13amp outlet, and connected the shower
pump using a 3amp plug top for ease of connection and maintenance.

If it's in the bathroom, I would connect to an unfused, unswitched flex
outlet, running off a 3amp switched FCU somewhere accessible outside the
door.

If the supplying circuit is not RCD protected use an RCD FCU. See
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...14770&ts=21503

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However,
can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end of
the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)


And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....

The advice looks unanimous. Thanks guys for your help. I'll ensure I
have a plug fitted to it when he does the pluming.

Incidentally what will happen to the pump if i test it without any
water flowing through it (i.e. just air). I've heard this can be
terminal - but is the effect immediate - or does it need to happen for
a few minutes before it dies out on you ?

BTW - I won't be trying this - I was just curious.

GAZ

"Ghazali" wrote in message
m...
The advice looks unanimous. Thanks guys for your help. I'll ensure I
have a plug fitted to it when he does the pluming.

Incidentally what will happen to the pump if i test it without any
water flowing through it (i.e. just air). I've heard this can be
terminal - but is the effect immediate - or does it need to happen for
a few minutes before it dies out on you ?

Most don't switch on when energised until they sense water coursing through
their veins.
Pressure switches I believe - that's how they know when to switch on and
off.

"Ghazali" wrote in message
m...
snip

Incidentally what will happen to the pump if i test it without any
water flowing through it (i.e. just air). I've heard this can be
terminal - but is the effect immediate - or does it need to happen for
a few minutes before it dies out on you ?


AIUI it depends on the construction of the pump, some will self destruct
promto, others will be OK, so unless you know what you're dealing with.....

BTW this is pumps in general and not specific to shower pumps.

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However,
can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end of
the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)


And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....




And why should he return for free?? is the plumber running a charity?? No
his time is money, so maybe the oOP should have arranged for a suitable
supply adjacent to the pump prior to installation. Don't expect the plumber
to do some thing for nothing or you may not get a good quality job.

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

Steve Dawson
Fox Electrical Services Ltd
07907 940637

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However,
can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end
of
the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)


And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....




And why should he return for free?? is the plumber running a charity?? No
his time is money, so maybe the oOP should have arranged for a suitable
supply adjacent to the pump prior to installation. Don't expect the
plumber
to do some thing for nothing or you may not get a good quality job.


He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, it wouldn't matter if there
was an electricity supply to hand, in the words of the OP "he has said that
he does not do electrics", so he (the plumper) should either arrange for an
electrician to attend or return when an electrician will be present - after
all the electrician 'might not do water'...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.


Very true, and a fair days work for a fair days pay !

And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....

And why should he return for free?? is the plumber running a charity?? No
his time is money, so maybe the oOP should have arranged for a suitable
supply adjacent to the pump prior to installation. Don't expect the
plumber
to do some thing for nothing or you may not get a good quality job.

He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, it wouldn't matter if there
was an electricity supply to hand, in the words of the OP "he has said that
he does not do electrics", so he (the plumper) should either arrange for an
electrician to attend or return when an electrician will be present - after
all the electrician 'might not do water'...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

Very true, and a fair days work for a fair days pay !

The plumber has given the customer notification prior to the job being
started that he doesn't do electrics. If the customer is unhappy with
this then he has ample opportunity to discuss this matter with the
plumber. If the customer wants the pump working when it is fitted have
the electrician wire the pump prior to final fitting and testing or
make the final connections when the plumber has fitted the pump.
If the plumber would have turned round after the pump was fitted then
I could see there may be a problem.


SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

Jerry. typed:


He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, !

Err how many IEE 16th Edition plumbers do you know then ?
Or perhaps you take no notice of public liability insurance.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:42:11 -0000, "Mark"
wrote:

Jerry. typed:


He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, !

Err how many IEE 16th Edition plumbers do you know then ?
Or perhaps you take no notice of public liability insurance.

Who said you have to be 16th edition approved to wire anything up.
My Dad's a plumber, he 'does electrics', he's not 16th edition. His
liability insurance covers him on 'other trades'. i.e. insured for
doing 'some' electrical, carpentry etc...


SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:48:11 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:

Who said you have to be 16th edition approved to wire anything up.
My Dad's a plumber, he 'does electrics', he's not 16th edition. His
liability insurance covers him on 'other trades'. i.e. insured for
doing 'some' electrical, carpentry etc...

It's possible that in the event something untoward happened as a
result of his electrical plumbing then the insurance company might not
be prepared to underwrite the work.

You can't just assume cover on these things.

Probably worthwhile your Dad considering doing the C&G2381 course at
the local tech - 12 evening classes for around £100 and you get a
certificate at the end (assuming the test is passed - and it's not
difficult to do!).

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:48:11 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:

Who said you have to be 16th edition approved to wire anything up.
My Dad's a plumber, he 'does electrics', he's not 16th edition. His
liability insurance covers him on 'other trades'. i.e. insured for
doing 'some' electrical, carpentry etc...

It's possible that in the event something untoward happened as a
result of his electrical plumbing then the insurance company might not
be prepared to underwrite the work.

You can't just assume cover on these things.

Plumbing NVQ covers electrical work. the plumber is probably someone who
picked it up. If he was full educated and qualified he would be able to
connect up the pump.

Probably worthwhile your Dad considering doing the C&G2381 course at
the local tech - 12 evening classes for around £100 and you get a
certificate at the end (assuming the test is passed - and it's not
difficult to do!).

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However,
can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end
of
the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)


And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....




And why should he return for free?? is the plumber running a charity?? No
his time is money, so maybe the oOP should have arranged for a suitable
supply adjacent to the pump prior to installation. Don't expect the
plumber
to do some thing for nothing or you may not get a good quality job.

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders used to say in the 1970s. Wish
is all ******** of course. A lawyers get paid more for his "fair" days work
than others, and the royal family get paid a fortune for doing next to
nothing. So if this fairs days pay thing is the case the Queen should be in
a semi in Mill Hill.

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this.
However,
can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end
of
the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)


And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....




And why should he return for free?? is the plumber running a charity??
No
his time is money, so maybe the oOP should have arranged for a suitable
supply adjacent to the pump prior to installation. Don't expect the
plumber
to do some thing for nothing or you may not get a good quality job.


He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, it wouldn't matter if
there
was an electricity supply to hand, in the words of the OP "he has said
that
he does not do electrics", so he (the plumper) should either arrange for
an
electrician to attend or return when an electrician will be present -
after
all the electrician 'might not do water'...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.


Very true, and a fair days work for a fair days pay !

A I would have the electrician do the wiring and leave a switch adjacent to
the pump position. The plumber then can fit and connect up the wire. If he
can't do that he is a moron and don't hire him.

In article , IMM
writes

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
.uk...
On 03/02/2004 Rob Nicholson opined:-
I'd be worried about not testing a key component like this. However,
can't
you simpy wire it up temporarily? Just stick a 13A plug on the end
of
the
shower pump wire and plug it into an extension lead.

Snap ;-)


And then, if the plumper requires it, take the plug off again until an
electrician can make the final connections. I would have expected any
plumper to have done this, unless he is willing to return at your
convenience, and for free, when you get the electrician in.....




And why should he return for free?? is the plumber running a charity?? No
his time is money, so maybe the oOP should have arranged for a suitable
supply adjacent to the pump prior to installation. Don't expect the
plumber
to do some thing for nothing or you may not get a good quality job.

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders used to say in the 1970s. Wish
is all ******** of course. A lawyers get paid more for his "fair" days work
than others, and the royal family get paid a fortune for doing next to
nothing. So if this fairs days pay thing is the case the Queen should be in
a semi in Mill Hill.



Well I'd never thought I'd agree with comrade IMM but this is the most
sensible thing he's come up with!...
--
Tony Sayer

Ghazali wrote:

Hi

My plumber will be plumbing my shower booster pump (Stuart Turner
Monsoon twin impeller 2.25 bar) to my bath shower mixer this weekend.

2.25bar? You like an invigorating shower then, or is the shower upstairs
from the pump?

We have an S-T 1.4bar twin impeller with about 5m of 15mm pipe between
it and the shower and that is more than powerful enough but the pump and
the shower are on the same floor.

One thing to be aware of is that they are quite noisy so bear that in
mind when siting it. Ours is in the airing cupboard, sat on the slatted
shelf, which is just studded walls and it makes a lot of noise in the
adjacent bedroom. If I'd have thought about it beforehand I would have
put a piece of paving slab on the shelf under the pump. Unfortunately
there isn't room to lower the shelf to retro-fit one.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:42:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders used to say in the 1970s. Wish
is all ******** of course. A lawyers get paid more for his "fair" days work
than others,

I'm no great fan of lawyers by any stretch of the imagination, but
they make the rates that they do because people are willing to pay.
The actual amount depends on the perceived value of the service to the
customer. Companies spend large amounts of money to use the
services of the large accounting firms or the management
consultancies, not because of the value but because they have the
perception that they are getting value for money but more importantly
covering their backsides. I don't agree with the notion, but it's
up to them.



and the royal family get paid a fortune for doing next to
nothing. So if this fairs days pay thing is the case the Queen should be in
a semi in Mill Hill.

Now come on. How many queens do you know in semis in Mill Hill? She
might be lonely.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:42:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders used to say in the 1970s.
Wish
is all ******** of course. A lawyers get paid more for his "fair" days
work
than others,

I'm no great fan of lawyers by any stretch of the imagination, but
they make the rates that they do because people are willing to pay.
The actual amount depends on the perceived value of the service to the
customer. Companies spend large amounts of money to use the
services of the large accounting firms or the management
consultancies, not because of the value but because they have the
perception that they are getting value for money but more importantly
covering their backsides. I don't agree with the notion, but it's
up to them.

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and other
confusing old English They are scum.

and the royal family get paid a fortune for doing next to
nothing. So if this fairs days pay thing is the case the Queen should be
in
a semi in Mill Hill.

Now come on. How many queens do you know in semis in Mill Hill? She
might be lonely.

It would like to see one there.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Jerry. typed:


He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, !

Err how many IEE 16th Edition plumbers do you know then ?
Or perhaps you take no notice of public liability insurance.

Read my original reply FFS... :~(

What do you not understand about the word TEST, I have never expected the
plumper to make the final electrical connection.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:34:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:42:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and other
confusing old English They are scum.

IMM do you include your god and goddess in that statement?.
They are lawyers aren't they?.

ATB
Kris

2.25bar? You like an invigorating shower then, or is the shower upstairs
from the pump?

The shower head I purchased from www.bathstore.com specifies a min of 2 bar
to work adequately.

Cheers, Rob.

"Kris" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:34:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:42:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and
other
confusing old English They are scum.

IMM do you include your god and goddess in that statement?.
They are lawyers aren't they?.


And at least two of the court jesters are lawers too !

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:34:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:42:14 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders used to say in the 1970s.
Wish
is all ******** of course. A lawyers get paid more for his "fair" days
work
than others,

I'm no great fan of lawyers by any stretch of the imagination, but
they make the rates that they do because people are willing to pay.
The actual amount depends on the perceived value of the service to the
customer. Companies spend large amounts of money to use the
services of the large accounting firms or the management
consultancies, not because of the value but because they have the
perception that they are getting value for money but more importantly
covering their backsides. I don't agree with the notion, but it's
up to them.

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and other
confusing old English They are scum.

Funnily enough I agree with you.

If you pull out a copy of an EU Directive from their website and load
it into Word, then delete every instance of "whereas" it can be read
easily.

Lawyers that I have dealt with commercially in recent years have to
kept on a very tight rein to avoid them turning a perfectly simple
exercise into a major Ben Hur with billing to match.
A tight leash is definitely recommended.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:34:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

snip

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and
other
confusing old English They are scum.

Funnily enough I agree with you.

If you pull out a copy of an EU Directive from their website and load
it into Word, then delete every instance of "whereas" it can be read
easily.


The problem with writing law is to make the written meaning mean what was
meant to mean and not get interpreted to mean some other meaning IYSWIM.

Lawyers that I have dealt with commercially in recent years have to
kept on a very tight rein to avoid them turning a perfectly simple
exercise into a major Ben Hur with billing to match.
A tight leash is definitely recommended.


The same problem occurs when writing a legal contract, you would not thank
them for sloppy (legal) wording if it cost you tens of thousands of pounds
in a contract that was found to be legally worthless by a better lawyer.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:46:27 -0000, "Jerry."
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:34:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

snip

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and
other
confusing old English They are scum.

Funnily enough I agree with you.

If you pull out a copy of an EU Directive from their website and load
it into Word, then delete every instance of "whereas" it can be read
easily.


The problem with writing law is to make the written meaning mean what was
meant to mean and not get interpreted to mean some other meaning IYSWIM.

Yes I know. What is amusing about the Directives is that the preamble
is written as one long sentence. If you take out every "whereas" and
punctuate everything becomes quite clear.


Lawyers that I have dealt with commercially in recent years have to
kept on a very tight rein to avoid them turning a perfectly simple
exercise into a major Ben Hur with billing to match.
A tight leash is definitely recommended.


The same problem occurs when writing a legal contract, you would not thank
them for sloppy (legal) wording if it cost you tens of thousands of pounds
in a contract that was found to be legally worthless by a better lawyer.

Of course not,. When I do a legal contract, I agree all of the
business points with the other party, and only then involve the
lawyers to check the construction and legal standing.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:46:27 -0000, "Jerry."
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:34:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

snip

Lawyers make the law complicated. Even new laws still hereunto's and
other
confusing old English They are scum.

Funnily enough I agree with you.

If you pull out a copy of an EU Directive from their website and load
it into Word, then delete every instance of "whereas" it can be read
easily.


The problem with writing law is to make the written meaning mean what was
meant to mean and not get interpreted to mean some other meaning IYSWIM.

Yes I know. What is amusing about the Directives is that the preamble
is written as one long sentence. If you take out every "whereas" and
punctuate everything becomes quite clear.


Oh right, I see what you mean now... Hum, I'll take your word for it ! :~)


Lawyers that I have dealt with commercially in recent years have to
kept on a very tight rein to avoid them turning a perfectly simple
exercise into a major Ben Hur with billing to match.
A tight leash is definitely recommended.


The same problem occurs when writing a legal contract, you would not
thank
them for sloppy (legal) wording if it cost you tens of thousands of
pounds
in a contract that was found to be legally worthless by a better lawyer.

Of course not,. When I do a legal contract, I agree all of the
business points with the other party, and only then involve the
lawyers to check the construction and legal standing.


Not quite sure what you really mean here.

Yes I know. What is amusing about the Directives is that the preamble
is written as one long sentence. If you take out every "whereas" and
punctuate everything becomes quite clear.

Have we been taken over by uk.legal? :-)

Jerry. typed:

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Jerry. typed:


He is refusing to test his work !
The plumper is refusing to connect up the unit, !

Err how many IEE 16th Edition plumbers do you know then ?
Or perhaps you take no notice of public liability insurance.

Read my original reply FFS... :~(
quote
"in the words of the OP "he has said that
he does not do electrics", so he (the plumper) should either arrange
for an
electrician"

Depends how you read that!
Any decent plumper will wire up to a suitable adjacent speir.
But some rightly get arssy if the customer expects a wiring job back to the
CU.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders
used to say in the 1970s. Which is all ********
of course. A lawyers get paid more for
his "fair" days work than others, and the
royal family get paid a fortune for doing next to
nothing. So if this fairs days pay thing is
the case the Queen should be in
a semi in Mill Hill.

Well I'd never thought I'd agree with comrade
IMM but this is the most sensible thing he's come up with!...

Except it wasn't he who came up with it but Sue wassername (the Adrian
Mole
author) in "The Queen and I", where Labour gets elected with a Ken
Livingstone-alike prime minister and Brenda and Co get relocated to a
council house. (To be fair to IMM he may have invented the 'Mill Hill' bit
:-)

I never read or saw it.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , IMM
writes

"Steve Dawson" wrote in message
...

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

That's is what Tory Little Middle Englanders used to say in the 1970s.
Wish
is all ******** of course. A lawyers get paid more for his "fair" days
work
than others, and the royal family get paid a fortune for doing next to
nothing. So if this fairs days pay thing is the case the Queen should be
in
a semi in Mill Hill.



Well I'd never thought I'd agree with comrade IMM but this is the most
sensible thing he's come up with!...

Except it wasn't he who came up with it but Sue wassername (the Adrian Mole
author) in "The Queen and I", where Labour gets elected with a Ken
Livingstone-alike prime minister and Brenda and Co get relocated to a
council house. (To be fair to IMM he may have invented the 'Mill Hill' bit
:-)

In article ,
says...

A I would have the electrician do the wiring and leave a switch adjacentup the wire.
to the pump position. The plumber then can fit and connect
If he can't do that he is a moron and don't hire him.



I'm afraid I'd have to agree!!

There, I did it... I publicly agreed with IMM...
Must... go.. lie down...


--
http://www.mxf.info - information for developers of mxf systems

"Matt Beard" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

A I would have the electrician do the wiring and leave a switch adjacent
to the pump position. The plumber then can fit and connect
If he can't do that he is a moron and don't hire him.

I'm afraid I'd have to agree!!

There, I did it... I publicly agreed with IMM...
Must... go.. lie down...

That is encouraging. You are learning at last.

"Rob Nicholson" wrote in message
...
Yes I know. What is amusing about the Directives is that the preamble
is written as one long sentence. If you take out every "whereas" and
punctuate everything becomes quite clear.

Have we been taken over by uk.legal? :-)



No, just uk.politics...! [ see the thread 'IMM fodder' ]

Parish wrote in message ...
Ghazali wrote:

Hi

My plumber will be plumbing my shower booster pump (Stuart Turner
Monsoon twin impeller 2.25 bar) to my bath shower mixer this weekend.

2.25bar? You like an invigorating shower then, or is the shower upstairs
from the pump?

We have an S-T 1.4bar twin impeller with about 5m of 15mm pipe between
it and the shower and that is more than powerful enough but the pump and
the shower are on the same floor.

One thing to be aware of is that they are quite noisy so bear that in
mind when siting it. Ours is in the airing cupboard, sat on the slatted
shelf, which is just studded walls and it makes a lot of noise in the
adjacent bedroom. If I'd have thought about it beforehand I would have
put a piece of paving slab on the shelf under the pump. Unfortunately
there isn't room to lower the shelf to retro-fit one.


It's a 2.25 bar because I picked it up second hand off Ebay. However,
I wish I'd read your post earlier regarding noise. I have put the
pump under the bath and on the floorboards. You can imagine the noise
- it's very loud.
I snapped it up because I saw that it was a Stuart Turner Monsoon,
which are very highly recommended and also quite quiet. What I had
failed to research was that it is only the brass bodied ones that are
known to be quiet. Mine
is the 'engineered plastic type'. I had never had experience of a pump
before - and did not realise they can be as loud as they are. Of
course, if I want to put it on a concrete slab that would mean having
to get the plumber round again!

Anyway, in retrospect, having the 2.25 bar (as oppose to being lower)
was a blessing because for some reason the rerouting (due to different
bath position) of the 22mm cold feed from the loft storage has
resulted in very poor cold pressure. (The shower mixer doesn't even go
on when you press the mixer/shower button due to such bad pressure). I
suspect its an airlock, but it could also be the pump. My plumber
tried to suck out the airlock with some but insufficient success. He
also tried to blow it out from the top (near the tank itself).
Subsequent to this I have tried to cover up the mixer with my hand
whilst opening up the hot to try and let the hot run up the cold pipes
- even this has failed. Still, my point is, at least the pump gives me
a decent flow.

If I can't solve this problem of bad cold flow (and also the noise of
the pump)I am thinking of doing the following......its controversial,
so please give your expert comments.

I am thinking of running both the basin mixer and bath shower/mixer
cold taps off of the mains, whilst still having the hot from the hot
cylinder.

My thinking is that I will turn up the thermostat on the hot cylinder
so that it gives much hotter temperature, and then I will only need to
use a small amount of hot flow in the mixer shower, thus utilising
mainly the increased pressure/flow of the cold mains, whilst still
getting a decent temperature.

Now I know it is not the done thing to do this, but before giving your
comments please consider the following:

1. A kithchen sink mixer also usually runs cold off the mains and hot
from the storage cylinder, yet I never hear pple complaining about
'pressure imbalance' for washing up purposes. Why is it any different
for a shower.

2. I usually have an early morning shower, at a time when no-one else
is using any other water supply in the house, so there is no risk of
any sudden temperature/flow change from, say, another tap being used
elsewhere.

3. Because of the usual daily timing of the shower, surely the mains
pressure will also be similar. (I have heard it can vary depending on
how many other pple are using it on the street, or at different times
of the day).

4. If the water is coming through a shower mixer (i.e. pre-mixed), why
would a pressure imbalance between hot and cold have any noticeable
effect?

BTW: I'm not a plumber remember - so please could any
comments/suggestions be of a sort that I can understand and relay to
my plumber in layman's terms.
Cheers

"Ghazali" wrote
| I am thinking of running both the basin mixer and bath shower/mixer
| cold taps off of the mains, whilst still having the hot from the hot
| cylinder.
| 1. A kithchen sink mixer also usually runs cold off the mains and hot
| from the storage cylinder, yet I never hear pple complaining about
| 'pressure imbalance' for washing up purposes. Why is it any different
| for a shower.

A kitchen mixer does not mix the H&C waters inside the tap, if you look
closely at the kitchen mixer tap outlet you should see two spouts (often
concentric, with the cold on the outside so the tap remains cool to touch).
The "mix" happens in the air outside the shower.

A shower mixes the H&C inside the unit, and with a pressure imbalance the
high pressure cold can push the low pressure hot back, so you don't get a
mix.

Also, from a safety point of view, you usually only have your hands under
the kitchen tap and can pull them back quickly if it's too hot. With a
shower, you're confined inside the shower cubicle and your whole body is
vulnerable. Most people also expect a kitchen tap to be hot-hot.

| 2. I usually have an early morning shower, at a time when no-one else
| is using any other water supply in the house, so there is no risk of
| any sudden temperature/flow change from, say, another tap being used
| elsewhere.

That may be your current lifestyle, but what happens if you have visitors or
change your routine for any reason.

| 4. If the water is coming through a shower mixer (i.e. pre-mixed), why
| would a pressure imbalance between hot and cold have any noticeable
| effect?

See first point.

Bear in mind too that if you have your pump sucking from the mains (which
may not be allowed under water regs) and you have low mains flow/pressure,
and you are running the shower, the loft tank will be emptying and its ball
valve will open to refill it. However, if the pump is sucking all the mains
water for the shower, no mains water will go up to refill the tank and then
the HW cylinder, air will get into the pipes (because the ball valve is
open) and you'll have the possibility of another airlock.

If the pump suction and the layout of the pipes is such that the hot water
cylinder is sucked dry, that may do it no good (those cylinders have almost
no structural strength without the weight of water inside them) and as the
heat from your boiler will have nowhere to go the boiler might overheat. All
of this is somewhat hypothetical and worst-case, but it's not sounding like
a good idea so far.

What you really want to do is have H & C waters at similar pressure going
into a *thermostatic* mixing valve. The best thing really is (although I'm
not an expert) to sort out that cold feed piping.

Owain