Not exactly a DIY question (yet, at least), but I am sure the combined
knowledge here will produce the answers that I am after...

I in the process of putting down an offer for a house in the (always wet)
west of Scotland.

The house is quite "different" from your average detached house in the area,
as it is the result of some design competition from the 1930's, and is of
Art Deco style. The house looks very sound in general.

The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed) if
flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up completely
earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year guarantee. So far, so good
(my solicitor will put that as a condition to the offer).

However, during viewing I was looking down from the second floor window at
the roof of the single-story extension at the back (also new roof), in a
very rainy day may I add, showed that the whole extension roof was basically
one big shallow paddle (at least 0.5 " deep I would estimate). I haven't had
a chance to look at the roof of the rest of the building. Is this
common/what one should expect with a flat roof? or is it just a matter of
time before it will start leaking?

Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to decorate
after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

Any thoughts/comments will be much appreciated.

TIA,

J.

A constant source of expense. Walk away from it!

none none wrote:

I in the process of putting down an offer for a house in the (always wet)
west of Scotland.

The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed) if
flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up completely
earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year guarantee. So far, so good
(my solicitor will put that as a condition to the offer).

There's a reason for the steep angle of the traditional roofstyle in the
northwest. I wouldn't be at all happy with a flat roof.

Sheila, in NorthWest Sutherland

none none wrote:

I in the process of putting down an offer for a house in the (always wet)
west of Scotland.
The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed) if
flat.

As the owner of a property with a main flat roof, don't walk away from
it, run. Very quickly.

If you decide you really want this property, then at least contract
someone who is an expert in flat roofs to examine its design and
construction, and be prepared for ongoing maintenance and possible
difficulty in obtaining *adequate* insurance cover.

Lee
--
To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:31:01 -0000, "none none" wrote:

The house is quite "different" from your average detached house in the area,
as it is the result of some design competition from the 1930's, and is of
Art Deco style.

It's not listed as well by any chance? If listing carries the same
problems as down here in Southern England then be very careful - you
might have to keep it as is .



Barley Twist
(Please put out the cats to reply direct)

Oops! well spotted!

It is indeed a C-listed building, and as you already mentioned the exterior
of the building cannot be changed (according to the vendor - a property
lawyer...).


"Barley Twist" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:31:01 -0000, "none none" wrote:

The house is quite "different" from your average detached house in the
area,
as it is the result of some design competition from the 1930's, and is of
Art Deco style.

It's not listed as well by any chance? If listing carries the same
problems as down here in Southern England then be very careful - you
might have to keep it as is .



Barley Twist
(Please put out the cats to reply direct)

none none wrote:
Oops! well spotted!

It is indeed a C-listed building, and as you already mentioned the exterior
of the building cannot be changed (according to the vendor - a property
lawyer...).

Forget walking or running away, find a nice fast car...

--
Grunff

"none none" wrote in message
...

Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

My house has has a partly flat roof, when this inevitably failed I used some
high performance roofing felt which I managed to find, rather than the regular
stuff. I also used block board rather than chipboard underneath.

My roof is covered with little stones, I think to stop the sun getting at the
felt. If I find any stones in the gutter I always put them back


Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to decorate
after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

Luckily there is a small hole in my ceiling, when one day I found water coming
through, I got the roof fixed pretty quickly. So there was no internal damage.
Not a DIY job!


Michael Chare

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
My house has has a partly flat roof, when this inevitably failed I used
some high performance roofing felt which I managed to find, rather than
the regular stuff. I also used block board rather than chipboard
underneath.

Exterior ply is the recommended stuff.

--
*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

none none wrote:
Not exactly a DIY question (yet, at least), but I am sure the combined
knowledge here will produce the answers that I am after...

I in the process of putting down an offer for a house in the (always
wet) west of Scotland.

The house is quite "different" from your average detached house in
the area, as it is the result of some design competition from the
1930's, and is of Art Deco style. The house looks very sound in
general.

The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed)
if flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up
completely earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year
guarantee. So far, so good (my solicitor will put that as a condition
to the offer).

However, during viewing I was looking down from the second floor
window at the roof of the single-story extension at the back (also
new roof), in a very rainy day may I add, showed that the whole
extension roof was basically one big shallow paddle (at least 0.5 "
deep I would estimate). I haven't had a chance to look at the roof of
the rest of the building. Is this common/what one should expect with
a flat roof? or is it just a matter of time before it will start
leaking?

Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to
decorate after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

Any thoughts/comments will be much appreciated.

TIA,

J.

I wouldn't have a flat roof even on my small extension in southern England
because I saw so many people had problems with them..
It noticable that the local council has put pitched roofs on many of its
older blocks of flats around here... They look so much better too.
Flat roofs may be ok in e.g. Greece but not in northern europe.

none none wrote:
I in the process of putting down an offer for a house in the (always wet)
west of Scotland.

The house is quite "different" from your average detached house in the area,
as it is the result of some design competition from the 1930's, and is of
Art Deco style. The house looks very sound in general.

So it's survived well with a flat roof for about 70 years. The only
question seems therefore to be cost, which you can ascertain fairly
easily.


The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed) if
flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up completely
earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year guarantee. So far, so good
(my solicitor will put that as a condition to the offer).

However, during viewing I was looking down from the second floor window at
the roof of the single-story extension at the back (also new roof), in a
very rainy day may I add, showed that the whole extension roof was basically
one big shallow paddle (at least 0.5 " deep I would estimate). I haven't had
a chance to look at the roof of the rest of the building. Is this
common/what one should expect with a flat roof? or is it just a matter of
time before it will start leaking?

This is quite normal for a flat roof - it should be absolutely waterproof,
as this one seems to be.


Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

You won't be able to tell without taking it apart, unless you saw it
being put on.


Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to decorate
after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

They aren't normally that sudden - you get warning in the way of damp
rather than a sudden deluge (unless someone does something daft).


Any thoughts/comments will be much appreciated.

There will be a maintenance overhead. The roof, if felt, should
last at least 10 years, and 20-30 is easily possible. The property
is listed - find out whether a replacement such as fibreglass
(suitably coloured) would be acceptable.


J.B.
--

In article ,
BillR wrote:
I wouldn't have a flat roof even on my small extension in southern
England because I saw so many people had problems with them..

No roof lasts for ever. A well designed 'flat' roof can have an acceptable
one.

It noticable that the local council has put pitched roofs on many of its
older blocks of flats around here... They look so much better too.
Flat roofs may be ok in e.g. Greece but not in northern europe.

I had no option with my attic room conversion since I wanted more usable
floor space than a pitched roof could provide. The important thing with a
felted flat roof is to make it so water doesn't lie. This requires skilled
design and construction. And of course then it's not really a flat
roof. ;-)

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Had a word with the people at Scottish Heritage today, and apparently there
is no just of getting permission for making any changes to the roof, so
based on the comments so far I am already getting a lot less enthusiastic
about this house.

I don't mind paying a little every year to keep the roof in good order
(something you really should do in this neck of the woods anyway, regardless
of the type of roof you have), but I really don't want it to break the bank
every year.

Just out of interest for those in the know: what should I budget for annual
up keep (average)?



"none none" wrote in message
...
Not exactly a DIY question (yet, at least), but I am sure the combined
knowledge here will produce the answers that I am after...

I in the process of putting down an offer for a house in the (always wet)
west of Scotland.

The house is quite "different" from your average detached house in the
area,
as it is the result of some design competition from the 1930's, and is of
Art Deco style. The house looks very sound in general.

The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed) if
flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up completely
earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year guarantee. So far, so
good
(my solicitor will put that as a condition to the offer).

However, during viewing I was looking down from the second floor window at
the roof of the single-story extension at the back (also new roof), in a
very rainy day may I add, showed that the whole extension roof was
basically
one big shallow paddle (at least 0.5 " deep I would estimate). I haven't
had
a chance to look at the roof of the rest of the building. Is this
common/what one should expect with a flat roof? or is it just a matter of
time before it will start leaking?

Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to decorate
after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

Any thoughts/comments will be much appreciated.

TIA,

J.

In article ,
none none wrote:
Just out of interest for those in the know: what should I budget for
annual up keep (average)?

Zero - other than the usual removal of leaves etc and checking guttering
or any other drainage. If it's well constructed, budget for felt
replacement about every 20 years. If it's done before it's needed it's
cheaper than leaving it until it leaks.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
none none wrote:
Just out of interest for those in the know: what should I budget for
annual up keep (average)?

Zero - other than the usual removal of leaves etc and checking guttering
or any other drainage. If it's well constructed, budget for felt
replacement about every 20 years. If it's done before it's needed it's
cheaper than leaving it until it leaks.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

We live in what is probably an equally wet but at times colder? climate next
to the North Atlantic.
Everyone, including 'architected' commercial let alone residences buildings
seem to have trouble here with flat roofs.
As aresult there are hardly any houses with flat roofs. In fact there are at
least two homes in this community where new owners have replaced with
conventional sloped ones.
Personally I would avoid. Terry.

"Jerry Built" ] wrote in message . ..
none none wrote:

So it's survived well with a flat roof for about 70 years. The only
question seems therefore to be cost, which you can ascertain fairly
easily.

Well, we dont know that. It might have limped along truoblesomely and
expensively for 70 years, with one owner after another pulling their
hair out.


The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed) if
flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up completely
earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year guarantee. So far, so good
(my solicitor will put that as a condition to the offer).

I would want to know what that gtee covers - youll probably find it
doesnt cover what you'd like it to.

However, during viewing I was looking down from the second floor window at
the roof of the single-story extension at the back (also new roof), in a
very rainy day may I add, showed that the whole extension roof was basically
one big shallow paddle (at least 0.5 " deep I would estimate). I haven't had
a chance to look at the roof of the rest of the building. Is this
common/what one should expect with a flat roof?

yes

or is it just a matter of
time before it will start leaking?

yes


Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

Nothing puts a flat roof buyers mind at rest. If you want the resting
mind, leave it. If you want to cut a cheap deal, count on the fact
that everyone else will leave it.


Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to decorate
after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

thats minor. In short your roof will probably need redoing every 10 to
20 years, with smaller leaks between times. You'll be busy and put it
off, by which time it wont need refelting, but refelting and
reboarding. And sometimes the beams rot too, and you need a new roof
structure. Had that in one house.

Thats the downside. Oh and good luck selling it. The upside is you
might be able to be aggressive on the bargaining front. In short, if
youre looking for trouble, go for it.


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
"Jerry Built" ] wrote in message
. ..
none none wrote:

So it's survived well with a flat roof for about 70 years. The only
question seems therefore to be cost, which you can ascertain fairly
easily.

Well, we dont know that. It might have limped along truoblesomely and
expensively for 70 years, with one owner after another pulling their
hair out.


The only concern I have is that the roof of the entire house (4 bed)
if
flat. The owners assured me that the roof has been done up completely
earlier this year, and the work carries a 10-year guarantee. So far,
so good
(my solicitor will put that as a condition to the offer).

I would want to know what that gtee covers - youll probably find it
doesnt cover what you'd like it to.

However, during viewing I was looking down from the second floor
window at
the roof of the single-story extension at the back (also new roof), in
a
very rainy day may I add, showed that the whole extension roof was
basically
one big shallow paddle (at least 0.5 " deep I would estimate). I
haven't had
a chance to look at the roof of the rest of the building. Is this
common/what one should expect with a flat roof?

yes

or is it just a matter of
time before it will start leaking?

yes


Also, what should I look for in a flat roof to put my mind at rest?

Nothing puts a flat roof buyers mind at rest. If you want the resting
mind, leave it. If you want to cut a cheap deal, count on the fact
that everyone else will leave it.


Whilst having a guarantee is reassuring, the thought of having to
decorate
after each leak appears is not particularly appealing...

thats minor. In short your roof will probably need redoing every 10 to
20 years, with smaller leaks between times. You'll be busy and put it
off, by which time it wont need refelting, but refelting and
reboarding. And sometimes the beams rot too, and you need a new roof
structure. Had that in one house.

Thats the downside. Oh and good luck selling it. The upside is you
might be able to be aggressive on the bargaining front. In short, if
youre looking for trouble, go for it.


Regards, NT

Thanks for the useful advice.

One thing worth adding is that here in Scotland we are in a seller's market,
and the system is somewhat different. I expect the sellers to receive at
least 5 or 6 offers for the house (amount of your choice, in sealed
envelopes). The going rate here at the moment is that unless you offer
20-30% ABOVE the valuation price you don't stand a chance. The upside is
that when you come to sell (and the market is similar) it is you who
benefit.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:03:53 -0000, "none none" wrote:




One thing worth adding is that here in Scotland we are in a seller's market,
and the system is somewhat different. I expect the sellers to receive at
least 5 or 6 offers for the house (amount of your choice, in sealed
envelopes). The going rate here at the moment is that unless you offer
20-30% ABOVE the valuation price you don't stand a chance. The upside is
that when you come to sell (and the market is similar) it is you who
benefit.

As a system it is crazy. It's supposed to be a "valuation" but you
have to pay as you say considerably more.
Then you have paid a substantial sum for something for which you have
a bit of paper saying it isn't worth that.

Can't last forever.

--
Niall