I've just done a heatloss calculation for a small terraced house (3.8m wide
x 7.4m deep x 2.4m each storey with 2.5m x 4m back addition, mix of carpeted
wooden and solid floors, mostly single glazed, 50mm insulation in the roof)
and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

tia

--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:50:40 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

I've just done a heatloss calculation for a small terraced house (3.8m wide
x 7.4m deep x 2.4m each storey with 2.5m x 4m back addition, mix of carpeted
wooden and solid floors, mostly single glazed, 50mm insulation in the roof)
and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

tia

This seems low to me as well.

Presumably this is an older property with solid walls..??

I would expect the extension to have a fairly large heat loss because
of the external wall area.

How have you treated the party walls?

..


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:04:34 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:50:40 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

I've just done a heatloss calculation for a small terraced house (3.8m wide
x 7.4m deep x 2.4m each storey with 2.5m x 4m back addition, mix of carpeted
wooden and solid floors, mostly single glazed, 50mm insulation in the roof)
and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

tia

This seems low to me as well.

Presumably this is an older property with solid walls..??

I would expect the extension to have a fairly large heat loss because
of the external wall area.

How have you treated the party walls?

Have you allowed for the air changes?

I'd go high on those to allow for the sash windows.

Anyone know of a small output condensing model?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:50:40 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

I've just done a heatloss calculation for a small terraced house (3.8m
wide
x 7.4m deep x 2.4m each storey with 2.5m x 4m back addition, mix of
carpeted
wooden and solid floors, mostly single glazed, 50mm insulation in the
roof)
and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

tia

This seems low to me as well.

Presumably this is an older property with solid walls..??

I've assumed 220mm brick + 13mm plaster, U=2.0 (from BS5449 - I see Myson
use a figure of 1.8 for this construction).

I would expect the extension to have a fairly large heat loss because
of the external wall area.

(The extension shares a party wall with next door.)
I make its loss though external walls 712W. (Actually that includes a new 2m
extension to the ground floor at the back, which has insulated cavity
walls.)

How have you treated the party walls?

I've assumed next door temperatures of 15 downstairs, 10 upstairs (more
pessimistic than the usual 18 up and down, I know).

So for example my big main room (through lounge) has a party wall area of 2
(party walls) * 7.4m (width) * 2.4m (height) = 35.52m^2, and therefore a
heat loss of 35.52 * 2.0 (U value) * 6 (21C - 15C temp diff) = 426 Watts



--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:04:34 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:50:40 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

I've just done a heatloss calculation for a small terraced house (3.8m
wide
x 7.4m deep x 2.4m each storey with 2.5m x 4m back addition, mix of
carpeted
wooden and solid floors, mostly single glazed, 50mm insulation in the
roof)
and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor
and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

tia

This seems low to me as well.

Presumably this is an older property with solid walls..??

I would expect the extension to have a fairly large heat loss because
of the external wall area.

How have you treated the party walls?

Have you allowed for the air changes?

Yup, 1.5 for the main room, 2 for kit & bath, 1 for bedrooms.

I'd go high on those to allow for the sash windows.

Fortunately (from an energy conservation rather than architectural
conservation standpoint :-) they're not sashes. However the front door opens
into the main room so I'll probably go for 2 changes there, though that
still only gives me a total of a bit under 7kW.



Anyone know of a small output condensing model?

I had one of those Isars in the back of my van the other day... :-)


--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
I read a book on improving your memory but I've forgotten what it was
called

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:45:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



I've assumed 220mm brick + 13mm plaster, U=2.0 (from BS5449 - I see Myson
use a figure of 1.8 for this construction).

I would expect the extension to have a fairly large heat loss because
of the external wall area.

(The extension shares a party wall with next door.)
I make its loss though external walls 712W. (Actually that includes a new 2m
extension to the ground floor at the back, which has insulated cavity
walls.)

OK, so that takes out a fair chunk of outside wall area down to a much
lower heat loss.



How have you treated the party walls?

I've assumed next door temperatures of 15 downstairs, 10 upstairs (more
pessimistic than the usual 18 up and down, I know).

Seems reasonably conservative.



So for example my big main room (through lounge) has a party wall area of 2
(party walls) * 7.4m (width) * 2.4m (height) = 35.52m^2, and therefore a
heat loss of 35.52 * 2.0 (U value) * 6 (21C - 15C temp diff) = 426 Watts


In the very first house that we had where I installed heating, it was
also a terrace, although quite a bit larger than this one - probably
about 1.5m wider and quite a bit deeper, with an original 2 storey
extension. There was also a fourth bedroom in the loft - basically
in the apex area of the main part of the house.

The design was done when it was customary to allow 3kW for the HW
cylinder. I can remember that the total heat load, worst case, with
10% allowance came to 20kW and I used a legendary Potterton Netaheat
16-22 wound up to full power. This would have meant that the house
peak requirement was probably around 14kW. I did design assuming no
heating in neighbouring properties though.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:56:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



Fortunately (from an energy conservation rather than architectural
conservation standpoint :-) they're not sashes. However the front door opens
into the main room so I'll probably go for 2 changes there, though that
still only gives me a total of a bit under 7kW.


Also don't forget the heat loss of the door. This is going to have
something of an effect since it is opening directly into the living
room, especially if it has glass panels.




Anyone know of a small output condensing model?

I had one of those Isars in the back of my van the other day... :-)

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:45:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"

I've assumed 220mm brick + 13mm plaster, U=2.0 (from BS5449 - I see Myson
use a figure of 1.8 for this construction).

I would expect the extension to have a fairly large heat loss because
of the external wall area.

(The extension shares a party wall with next door.)
I make its loss though external walls 712W. (Actually that includes a new
2m
extension to the ground floor at the back, which has insulated cavity
walls.)

OK, so that takes out a fair chunk of outside wall area down to a much
lower heat loss.



How have you treated the party walls?

I've assumed next door temperatures of 15 downstairs, 10 upstairs (more
pessimistic than the usual 18 up and down, I know).

Seems reasonably conservative.



So for example my big main room (through lounge) has a party wall area of
2
(party walls) * 7.4m (width) * 2.4m (height) = 35.52m^2, and therefore a
heat loss of 35.52 * 2.0 (U value) * 6 (21C - 15C temp diff) = 426 Watts


In the very first house that we had where I installed heating, it was
also a terrace, although quite a bit larger than this one - probably
about 1.5m wider and quite a bit deeper, with an original 2 storey
extension. There was also a fourth bedroom in the loft - basically
in the apex area of the main part of the house.

The design was done when it was customary to allow 3kW for the HW
cylinder. I can remember that the total heat load, worst case, with
10% allowance came to 20kW and I used a legendary Potterton Netaheat
16-22 wound up to full power. This would have meant that the house
peak requirement was probably around 14kW. I did design assuming no
heating in neighbouring properties though.

My first house was similar to the one you describe and I remember when I did
the calcs it wanted a bit more than a 55K BTUs back-boiler would have given.

However the house in question is heated by night storage and it's generally
as warm as toast (during the day, when I've been working there) in the big
main room which has only one storage heater, which can't be chucking out
more than a couple of kW. From that point of view the figures seem
reasonable ... but I'm still not happy with it. :-(


--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
Pessimists are never disappointed

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:45:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:


and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

It seems pretty reasonable to me. Most of your wall area is shared
with the neighbours (assuming it is mid terrace) and if you have good
loft insulation the heat loss would be quite small.

Looking at the heat loss calculations that I did for my house before I
renovated it I got values ranging from 15Kw if I installed no
insulation to 8kw if I installed as much insulation as was feasible.
These included 3.6Kw for air changes. This is for a detached house
about 10M square on 3 floors so it should need a lot more heat than a
terraced house.

Experience has shown that the calculations were pretty accurate.

Bill T

wrote in message
...

Looking at the heat loss calculations that I did for my house before I
renovated it I got values ranging from 15Kw if I installed no
insulation to 8kw if I installed as much insulation as was feasible.
These included 3.6Kw for air changes. This is for a detached house
about 10M square on 3 floors so it should need a lot more heat than a
terraced house.

Unless I'm completely wrong about calculating vent losses, then your air
change figure sounds extremely low. Even at one change an hour (very low
as an average for the house), a three storey 10x10 house is going to need
something like 10*10*7 [height, guess] * 1 * .33 * 24 [tempDrop] = 5.5kW.

How did you do the air-change loss?

Will

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:07:15 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



My first house was similar to the one you describe and I remember when I did
the calcs it wanted a bit more than a 55K BTUs back-boiler would have given.

Mmmm. So in the same range.


However the house in question is heated by night storage and it's generally
as warm as toast (during the day, when I've been working there) in the big
main room which has only one storage heater, which can't be chucking out
more than a couple of kW.

Don't forget that there's quite a big difference between how the place
may feel when you are there working and moving about during the day
and what it could be like sitting still in the evening.

We've also had about a 10-12 degree range over the last couple of
weeks and the design is intended for -3. So 2kW or so at a daytime
temperature of +8 may be OK.


From that point of view the figures seem
reasonable ... but I'm still not happy with it. :-(

Realistically, it isn't the boiler that is going to be the problem.
You could go for an 11-14kW modulating one for example.

The radiator sizings would be more important. For the living room,
having one at each end would be sensible, probably.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Will Dean" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in message
...

Looking at the heat loss calculations that I did for my house before I
renovated it I got values ranging from 15Kw if I installed no
insulation to 8kw if I installed as much insulation as was feasible.
These included 3.6Kw for air changes. This is for a detached house
about 10M square on 3 floors so it should need a lot more heat than a
terraced house.

Unless I'm completely wrong about calculating vent losses, then your air
change figure sounds extremely low. Even at one change an hour (very low
as an average for the house), a three storey 10x10 house is going to need
something like 10*10*7 [height, guess] * 1 * .33 * 24 [tempDrop] = 5.5kW.

How did you do the air-change loss?

This is 2 storey, somewhet smaller than your example: I've got roughly 30m^s
per floor in the main bit, 10m^2 in the back addition so total 40m^s plan
area. Each floor is 2.4m high (call it 5m total), so total house volume
approx 40 * 5 = 200 m^3.

With 2 air changes/hour and 20C difference that'd be 200 * 2 * 20 * .33 =
2.6 kW, which is near enough what I've got on my spreadsheet (actually I'v
been using a factor of .36 which I got from a post of Andy's sometime back).


--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
Bob the builder / it'll cost yer
Bob the builder / loadsa dosh

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:45:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:


and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on
a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor
and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to
completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

It seems pretty reasonable to me. Most of your wall area is shared
with the neighbours (assuming it is mid terrace) and if you have good
loft insulation the heat loss would be quite small.

Looking at the heat loss calculations that I did for my house before I
renovated it I got values ranging from 15Kw if I installed no
insulation to 8kw if I installed as much insulation as was feasible.
These included 3.6Kw for air changes. This is for a detached house
about 10M square on 3 floors so it should need a lot more heat than a
terraced house.

Experience has shown that the calculations were pretty accurate.

Thanks, that's encouraging


--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
practice random kindness and sensless acts of beauty

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:07:15 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



My first house was similar to the one you describe and I remember when I
did
the calcs it wanted a bit more than a 55K BTUs back-boiler would have
given.

Mmmm. So in the same range.


However the house in question is heated by night storage and it's
generally
as warm as toast (during the day, when I've been working there) in the
big
main room which has only one storage heater, which can't be chucking out
more than a couple of kW.

Don't forget that there's quite a big difference between how the place
may feel when you are there working and moving about during the day
and what it could be like sitting still in the evening.

True ...

We've also had about a 10-12 degree range over the last couple of
weeks and the design is intended for -3. So 2kW or so at a daytime
temperature of +8 may be OK.

Even so it was very warm inside when it was brass monkeys outside


From that point of view the figures seem
reasonable ... but I'm still not happy with it. :-(

Realistically, it isn't the boiler that is going to be the problem.
You could go for an 11-14kW modulating one for example.

It's not that I'm worried about - I've already got a 23kW combi installed
(Hepworth Icon/Ikon)

The radiator sizings would be more important. For the living room,
having one at each end would be sensible, probably.

Natch, in fact I'll probably put 3 since they want one in the front bay
where there's not much room and even a double would only give about 600W, so
another on the side wall by the front door and a 3rd at the back, to give c.
4-5Kw for the whole room. This room's heatloss is almost 3K (just under half
the total for the whole house).

I'm thinking I'll go for oversizing the rads as much as possible to give a
decent load to the boiler to reduce cycling (it claims to be 'fully
modulating' on CH but I don't have the manual to hand ATM so I don't know
what it goes down to) and to give good warm-up.

--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
procrastinate now!

John Stumbles wrote:

I've just done a heatloss calculation for a small terraced house (3.8m wide
x 7.4m deep x 2.4m each storey with 2.5m x 4m back addition, mix of carpeted
wooden and solid floors, mostly single glazed, 50mm insulation in the roof)
and get just over 6.5kW, which seems very low. I've done the calcs on a
spreadsheet but cross-checked with the Myson calculator for the floor and
air changes of one room, to sanity check.

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to completely
cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...



It seems a tad on the high side to me.

I have 200 sq meters here (100 meters sq per floor) and that was
calculated at a shade over 9KW. But insulation is to specs.


you have 70 sq meters of floor roughly, so you are calculating 100W per
square meter more or less. That's about double what I need. Which seems
reasonable for solid or unisulated walls and floors. And single glazing.

Anyway, even a small boiler will do 10Kw in all probability, so just
bunf one in and let the thermostats take care of the rest.


tia

--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:53:18 -0000, "Will Dean"
wrote:


Unless I'm completely wrong about calculating vent losses, then your air
change figure sounds extremely low. Even at one change an hour (very low
as an average for the house), a three storey 10x10 house is going to need
something like 10*10*7 [height, guess] * 1 * .33 * 24 [tempDrop] = 5.5kW.

How did you do the air-change loss?

Will

Its over 12 years since I did the calcs, and I only have the results
now. I think that I would have used an average of one air change an
hour, but I used -1 outside 21 inside so a 22 temperature drop, and
the house is actually a bit smaller, than it seems. The bottom floor
is smaller than the upper two (built onto a bank), and it has very
thick walls - the 10M is the outside dimension.

Bill

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to
completely cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

Victorian terraces are actually quite good on energy conservation, despite
the lack of insulation and cavities and old leaky windows. This is because
the "external" walls are primarily party walls, with only thin slivers of
genuine cold outside walls at the front and back. The worst parts are the
rear extensions.

The survey SAP rating on mine when I moved was good, despite no insulation
(other than the roof) and single glazed sashes at the back. It is a 3
bedroom Edwardian (Victorian style) mid terrace.

I calculated my losses to be around 8.4kW, but this is probably higher than
most would calculate, as I calculated the lounge and dining room at 22C and
bedrooms at 20C. This is for an outside temperature of -3C.

Christian.

P.S. Have you finished that bathroom yet, John? The old Glowworm Fuelsaver
has started making a funny noise.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:43:08 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Does this seem right? I could put it all through the Myson to
completely cross-check it but it's a lot of extra work ...

Victorian terraces are actually quite good on energy conservation, despite
the lack of insulation and cavities and old leaky windows. This is because
the "external" walls are primarily party walls, with only thin slivers of
genuine cold outside walls at the front and back. The worst parts are the
rear extensions.

The survey SAP rating on mine when I moved was good, despite no insulation
(other than the roof) and single glazed sashes at the back. It is a 3
bedroom Edwardian (Victorian style) mid terrace.

I calculated my losses to be around 8.4kW, but this is probably higher than
most would calculate, as I calculated the lounge and dining room at 22C and
bedrooms at 20C. This is for an outside temperature of -3C.

Christian.

P.S. Have you finished that bathroom yet, John? The old Glowworm Fuelsaver
has started making a funny noise.

They do.... you're living on borrowed time ;-)





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:34:46 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:56:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



Fortunately (from an energy conservation rather than architectural
conservation standpoint :-) they're not sashes. However the front door opens
into the main room so I'll probably go for 2 changes there, though that
still only gives me a total of a bit under 7kW.


Also don't forget the heat loss of the door. This is going to have
something of an effect since it is opening directly into the living
room, especially if it has glass panels.




Anyone know of a small output condensing model?

I had one of those Isars in the back of my van the other day... :-)


Let me know how it goes, also if you fit any condensing combi that you
feel happy with since I want to have a model of choice for after next spring.

I guess the heat loss from this small terraced house is quite small.
A 1kW fan heater in each room would probably make it quite warm.

However it would be good to fit a boiler capable of fully using the
indirect coil of the 'Part L' cylinder - so that would be c. 12kW nominal.

Also some spare capacity to deal with both neighbours on holiday in winter
(say next door at 12C both sides). This should bring things up to around
10kW maybe.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:34:46 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:56:48 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



Fortunately (from an energy conservation rather than architectural
conservation standpoint :-) they're not sashes. However the front door
opens
into the main room so I'll probably go for 2 changes there, though that
still only gives me a total of a bit under 7kW.


Also don't forget the heat loss of the door. This is going to have
something of an effect since it is opening directly into the living
room, especially if it has glass panels.




Anyone know of a small output condensing model?

I had one of those Isars in the back of my van the other day... :-)


Let me know how it goes, also if you fit any condensing combi that you
feel happy with since I want to have a model of choice for after next
spring.

Wasn't too impressed with it tbh: it looks as if someone's shoved all the
controls into the box and slammed the cover shut on it :-). In commissioning
it you have to swing down the electronic controls housing so you can rotate
the diverter valve enough to get the head off it to actuate it for bleeding
the system. The ignition cable goes across the controls housing so you have
to unplug the cable to swing the housing down, which means you can't operate
the boiler in this state. To get at the gas valve you have to swing down the
controls. I notice there's no mention in the manual of measuring the burner
pressure, because if you touch the burner pressure test point how are you
going to leak-test it afterwards? (You could probably just about manage to
swing the controls out of the way enough to see the valve with the boiler
running, but it'd be a bit iffy.) Shame really, in other respects it seems a
nice enough bit of kit, and it's the only one at a reasonable price.

Another downer is the weight: 45kG. Definitely not a 1-man install unless
you're governor of California :-)


--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
Which Tyler: leader of the pedants' revolt.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:04:39 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:



Wasn't too impressed with it tbh: it looks as if someone's shoved all the
controls into the box and slammed the cover shut on it :-). In commissioning
it you have to swing down the electronic controls housing so you can rotate
the diverter valve enough to get the head off it to actuate it for bleeding
the system. The ignition cable goes across the controls housing so you have
to unplug the cable to swing the housing down, which means you can't operate
the boiler in this state. To get at the gas valve you have to swing down the
controls. I notice there's no mention in the manual of measuring the burner
pressure, because if you touch the burner pressure test point how are you
going to leak-test it afterwards?

I think that this might be a function of the injector and mixing
arrangement with the fan.

Mine has a fairly similar arrangement with the injector and fan,
although the gas feed is at the back. I asked the manufacturer
about it because there was no mention in the commissioning
instructions regarding pressure test, even though there are nipples on
the gas valve on the input and output side.

They told me that the setup procedure doesn't involve the equivalent
of burner pressure testing and in fact, if measured it would show
anything from slightly positive to slightly negative. Instead of
this, there are adjusters on the gas valve - one for the burner
running at minimum level and the other for maximum. A combustion
analyser is used and the CO2 level measured at either end - it's a bit
iterative and took a little while to do. It has to be within a range
at either end. They then call for a CO check at top and bottom as
well which must be less than so much, The input gas rate is also
checked at top and bottom as well.

IIRC, the Keston has a similar procedure.

(You could probably just about manage to
swing the controls out of the way enough to see the valve with the boiler
running, but it'd be a bit iffy.) Shame really, in other respects it seems a
nice enough bit of kit, and it's the only one at a reasonable price.

Another downer is the weight: 45kG. Definitely not a 1-man install unless
you're governor of California :-)

So how did you manage?





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:04:39 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

---8---

Another downer is the weight: 45kG. Definitely not a 1-man install unless
you're governor of California :-)

So how did you manage?

Steroids ;-)

BSF, I was just doing gas, flue & commission for the client and he helped me
lift it.


--
John Stumbles
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The most dangerous component in a car is the nut that holds the steering
wheel

In article ,
"John Stumbles" ] writes:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 21:04:39 -0000, "John Stumbles"
] wrote:

---8---

Another downer is the weight: 45kG. Definitely not a 1-man install unless
you're governor of California :-)

So how did you manage?

Steroids ;-)

The Keston is 38kg. Carrying that up a light-duty home step ladder
and balancing with it on the top whilst trying to hang it on the wall
bracket was no joke I can tell you. If I ever put another one in, it
probably won't be mounted as high as a 9' ceiling allows, no matter
how good a use of space it is ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel