Huge wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid writes:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)



But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after matriculation,
innit?


And £35.



Was it? Don't remember. I think thats only if you bother to attend the
jolly.

Huge wrote:

The Natural Philosopher writes:

Huge wrote:


[21 lines snipped]


The kinds of functionality we are talking about here takes place "below"
the O/S level (not that W/98 is much of an O/S in the first place). (Despite
my earlier facetious remark about O/S idel loops...)



Nothing except internal machine codes takes place below operating system
level.


No offence, but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Can I
suggest you go and read about the IBM S/360 and Transmeta processor
architectures?





Frankly, I'd rather not.

All processors are CPU, varous hardware bits and microcode. The OS core
is ultimately in machine code, and the microcode interprets that and
fiddles with the actual hardware.

Sop below OS is only the microcode.

Steve Firth wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote:


But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after matriculation,
innit?


Plus resisting the temptation to rape the bursar for that couple of
years. After that it's OK.




Temptation? You haven't SEEN the bursar.

Neither have I to be honest...

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:36:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote:


But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after matriculation,
innit?


Plus resisting the temptation to rape the bursar for that couple of
years. After that it's OK.




Temptation? You haven't SEEN the bursar.

Neither have I to be honest...


I was thinking that he must get fed up being raped by all these
graduates..... ;-)





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:53:34 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

I was thinking that he must get fed up being raped by all these
graduates..... ;-)

Is this a required feature of Bliars brave new world of paying top-up
fees?

PoP

Replying to the email address given by my news reader
will result in your own email address being instantly
added to my anti-spam database! If you really want to
contact me try changing the prefix in the given email
address to my newsgroup posting name.....

Juliette wrote
"nightjar" says...

I started using TFT monitors almost as soon as they became available. I had
one user who could see flicker on even the highest spec CRT I could buy at
the time and, at a cost of £2k, the TFT cured the problem.

We replaced my partner's CRT monitor with a TFT because I could
see the flicker and although he couldn't he was suffering rather
badly with eyestrain and headaches.

Quality CRT's can go up to 85MHz refresh rate, I have no discernable
flicker on mine.

Like yours, this wasn't a cheap, nasty CRT - computers are how we make a
living so we don't cut corners on quality.

I'm on a Sun 21" Re-badged Sony Trinitron

The TFT did cure the eyestrain and the headaches

I've used both, but i'm staying on a decent CRT for the moment, until
we can get bigger TFT screens.

Cheers,

Paul.

Quality CRT's can go up to 85MHz refresh rate, I have no
discernable flicker on mine.

I find 85Hz an absolute minimum. My eyes much prefer 100Hz or 120Hz. 75Hz is
very noticeable. 60Hz is like a power drill in my face.

Christian.

Zymurgy wrote:

Quality CRT's can go up to 85MHz refresh rate, I have no discernable
flicker on mine.

85MHz - now that I would have to see ;-) With a vertical resolution of
say 1200 lines that would need a line rate in excess of 102GHz! Might
have some interesting X-Ray emmision problems as well!

A top end CRT will do say 150Hz vertical refresh... with a line rate of
no more than a few hundred KHz

A good proportion of people will see no flicker at a vertical refresh of
72Hz or better on a small ish screen, most are happy by 85Hz or more
on screens upto 21"

(bigger screens are more of a problem because you see more of them in
your peripheral vision which is far more sensitve to movement (and hence
flicker) than your main field of view)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote
Zymurgy wrote:

Quality CRT's can go up to 85MHz refresh rate, I have no discernable
flicker on mine.

85MHz - now that I would have to see ;-)

:-) I spotted my little error after I posted, seems you did too ;-)

Humble Hertz are so quaint in todays computing world

Cheers,

Paul.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid writes:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after
matriculation,
innit?

And £35.

Quite right! All these snotty unis are up to all sorts of tricks.

Was it? Don't remember.

Selective amnesia eh!


---
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
RichardS wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after
matriculation,
innit?

Yes, but teh BA course is of MA standard.

Yerrr! Sure it is! Is that what they told you?


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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh , my!
And what amazes me he actually does think he is.


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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:36:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Steve Firth wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote:

But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after
matriculation,
innit?

Plus resisting the temptation to rape the bursar for that couple of
years. After that it's OK.

Temptation? You haven't SEEN the bursar.

Neither have I to be honest...

I was thinking that he must get fed up being raped by all these
graduates..... ;-)

These things happen in the snotty uni's.


---
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IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

RichardS wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after

matriculation,

innit?

Yes, but teh BA course is of MA standard.


Yerrr! Sure it is! Is that what they told you?



No, its what every body else told me.



---
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IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)


And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh , my!
And what amazes me he actually does think he is.



No, I am just an electronic enigeneer of some 35 years experience, who
switched from hardware to software in the 80's and spent the next ten
years progarmming real time and embedded systems.


After that I was running systems integration companies. Then I sold
mine, and reitired..



---
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)


And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh ,
my!
And what amazes me he actually does think he is.

No, I am just an electronic enigeneer

It said "Electrical".

of some 35 years experience, who
switched from hardware to software in the 80's and spent the next ten
years progarmming real time and embedded systems.

After that I was running systems integration companies. Then I sold
mine, and reitired..

Couldn't hack it eh? Didn't know enough about the game.


---
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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

RichardS wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

But from Cambridge that's a BA + a wait of a few years after

matriculation,

innit?

Yes, but teh BA course is of MA standard.


Yerrr! Sure it is! Is that what they told you?

No, its what every body else told me.

Snotty uni people of course.


---
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IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...



MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)


And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh ,

my!

And what amazes me he actually does think he is.

No, I am just an electronic enigeneer


It said "Electrical".



Thats what you get at a snotty uni IMM.

Everything from mechanical engineering to electronics.

El;ectrical sciences covers everything from microwaves through
electronics down to power stations.



of some 35 years experience, who
switched from hardware to software in the 80's and spent the next ten
years progarmming real time and embedded systems.

After that I was running systems integration companies. Then I sold
mine, and reitired..


Couldn't hack it eh? Didn't know enough about the game.


No, IMM. I knew too much....but that is another story.




---
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:03:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...



MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)


And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh ,

my!

And what amazes me he actually does think he is.

No, I am just an electronic enigeneer


It said "Electrical".



Thats what you get at a snotty uni IMM.

Everything from mechanical engineering to electronics.

El;ectrical sciences covers everything from microwaves through
electronics down to power stations.

I don't think that he has much idea of what a university education is
all about anyway - i.e. that it's not some kind of vocational training
setup, but rather how to go about identifying and dealing with issues
set against a subject background.

The second of these is portable across disciplines and endures time,
the first often is not.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:03:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

IMM wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...



MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)


And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh ,

my!

And what amazes me he actually does think he is.

No, I am just an electronic enigeneer


It said "Electrical".



Thats what you get at a snotty uni IMM.

Everything from mechanical engineering to electronics.

El;ectrical sciences covers everything from microwaves through
electronics down to power stations.

I don't think that he has much idea of what a university education is
all about anyway

Having been through one I certainly do, my old chum.

- i.e. that it's not some kind of vocational training
setup, but rather how to go about identifying and dealing with issues
set against a subject background.

Electrical and electronic are now very different fields and have been for a
very long time.




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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:40:51 -0000, "IMM" wrote:





It said "Electrical".



Thats what you get at a snotty uni IMM.

Everything from mechanical engineering to electronics.

El;ectrical sciences covers everything from microwaves through
electronics down to power stations.

I don't think that he has much idea of what a university education is
all about anyway

Having been through one I certainly do, my old chum.

You have never presented any credible evidence to support that claim.


- i.e. that it's not some kind of vocational training
setup, but rather how to go about identifying and dealing with issues
set against a subject background.

Electrical and electronic are now very different fields and have been for a
very long time.

One can very easily do either or both with an appropriate degree
course or migrate from one to the other.





---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

One can very easily do either or both with an appropriate degree
course or migrate from one to the other.

Indeed. Once you get past the A-Level stage, they are all just flavours of
applied mathematics. Three dimensional differential equations in conical
coordinates, anyone?

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote in message 400d61d4$0$13350Indeed. Once you get
past the A-Level stage, they are all just flavours of
applied mathematics. Three dimensional differential equations in conical
coordinates, anyone?

Don't you just hate it when people take the easy option, instead of doing
the job properly with partials and integrating round the loop, so that they
may perhaps, understand it?

Regards
Capitol

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:48:21 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid writes:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

Quite right! All these snotty unis are up to all sorts of tricks.

Was it? Don't remember.

Selective amnesia eh!

Your sure do have a chip on your shoulder don't you IMM ?.

Did somebody who went to uni catch you having a w**k in the
shower(you do have one don't ya?) and this is your way of getting your
own back by trying to shoot down people who are in almost every case
your intellectual superior.

Why don't you please leave this ng and do most of us a favor.

Please guys send all your spare rpg's to imm.



ATB

Kris

"Kris" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:48:21 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid writes:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)

Quite right! All these snotty unis are up to all sorts of tricks.

Was it? Don't remember.

Selective amnesia eh!

Your sure do have a chip on your shoulder don't you IMM ?.

For observing and knowing? Why would I?

snip tripe

Why don't you please leave this ng and do most of us a favor.

Me go? If you don't like it, then....


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IMM wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:03:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


IMM wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...




MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)



And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh ,


my!


And what amazes me he actually does think he is.


No, I am just an electronic enigeneer


It said "Electrical".



Thats what you get at a snotty uni IMM.

Everything from mechanical engineering to electronics.

El;ectrical sciences covers everything from microwaves through
electronics down to power stations.


I don't think that he has much idea of what a university education is
all about anyway


Having been through one I certainly do, my old chum.


- i.e. that it's not some kind of vocational training
setup, but rather how to go about identifying and dealing with issues
set against a subject background.


Electrical and electronic are now very different fields and have been for a
very long time.




Only in jumped up technical colleges where its not to be expected that
you will be taught to think for yourself.

The ordinary degree at cambridge is in engineering only.

Covering everything from building bridges via heat engines to electronics.

Only the masters degree specialises, by dropping mechanical engineering
in favour of e.g. microwave waveguide analysis.




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Christian McArdle wrote:

One can very easily do either or both with an appropriate degree
course or migrate from one to the other.


Indeed. Once you get past the A-Level stage, they are all just flavours of
applied mathematics. Three dimensional differential equations in conical
coordinates, anyone?



No thanks. Bloody tensor calculus. Yuk.


Christian.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:03:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


IMM wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


IMM wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...




MA Electrical sciences, Cambridge :-)



And you are a computer expert by studying electric sockets? My, oh
,


my!


And what amazes me he actually does think he is.


No, I am just an electronic enigeneer


It said "Electrical".



Thats what you get at a snotty uni IMM.

Everything from mechanical engineering to electronics.

El;ectrical sciences covers everything from microwaves through
electronics down to power stations.


I don't think that he has much idea of what a university education is
all about anyway


Having been through one I certainly do, my old chum.


- i.e. that it's not some kind of vocational training
setup, but rather how to go about identifying and dealing with issues
set against a subject background.


Electrical and electronic are now very different fields and have been
for a
very long time.

Only in jumped up technical colleges where its not to be expected that
you will be taught to think for yourself.

********!! Snotty uni attitude again. Snotty uni's don't teach properly,
as they give all the top jobs to themselves, so why know about something
useful.

The ordinary degree at cambridge is in engineering only.

Covering everything from building bridges via heat engines to electronics.

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer, saying "the next job is doing
a bridge". get real. Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.




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Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer, saying "the next job is
doing
a bridge". get real. Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering disciplines. It is basically
mathematics. There's not much difference in the mathematic contortions
required to design a bridge to resist wind loads as compared with designing
any other control system (mechanical, electrical or electronic).

It's basically all solving differential equations to the highest order you
need. Obviously, there is a certain amount of specialisation into fields,
but this is only about 20-30% of the game. About 70-80% is identical between
disciplines.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer,
saying "the next job is doing a bridge". get real.
Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a
certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering
disciplines. It is basically
mathematics.

Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

Obviously, there is a certain amount of specialisation into fields,
but this is only about 20-30% of the game. About 70-80% is identical
between
disciplines.

What planet are you on?


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Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

Well, on the surface this is true. However, when you get to the really deep
stuff, you'll find yourself solving the same sort of control theory problems
whether you are designing a bridge, or an optimising heating controller.
Whether the solution to the control theory problem is made of steel,
transistors or x86 assembly language is just window dressing.

Christian.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:03:49 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:03:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


IMM wrote:


Electrical and electronic are now very different fields and have been
for a
very long time.

Only in jumped up technical colleges where its not to be expected that
you will be taught to think for yourself.

********!! Snotty uni attitude again. Snotty uni's don't teach properly,
as they give all the top jobs to themselves, so why know about something
useful.

You really have no idea, do you? When I applied to go to university,
I interviewed at five different places, as was the norm through UCCA
(now UCAS). These were from a range of traditional and redbricks,
some in what is now known as the Russell Group, some not. All of them
took great pains to explain that they are not in the business of
vocational training but in an education in how to think and how to
approach issues, exactly as I already stated and TNP echoed.
Absolutely not an Oxbridge thing.

More recently, my daughter did a similar application exercise and
interview round among a range of universities including some of the
ex-polys. Among the original universities the principles of what
they are about have not changed from their perspective, although some
of the ex-polys did say that they considered themselves to be more
vocational.

To me the issue is not about teaching, but about learning, and the
main part about learning is motivation and breadth of thought. I
certainly had relatively few lectures, and then there were tutorials
and practicals and projects. The timetabled time was a relatively
small proportion in total. The main aspect was self motivated study,
going and talking to the researchers and lecturers to get information
and reading above and beyond the minimum expected.

Not surprisingly, a lot of people who do well in that environment end
up being adaptable to different situations afterwards and have a
thirst to find out about new things. That may well correlate with a
successful career.

This type of environment isn't for everybody. Some people do better
in an environment where more of the information is taught and it is
more vocational. I see nothing wrong with that or view it less
valuable to society or the individuals involved than a university
environment.

The point is that the university education is and should be more about
how to think, how to go about finding, dissecting and applying
information, and doing so quickly, efficiently and adaptably.


The ordinary degree at cambridge is in engineering only.

Covering everything from building bridges via heat engines to electronics.

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer, saying "the next job is doing
a bridge". get real. Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

That isn't what was being said. The point is one of adaptability of
the individual and is perfectly real..





---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
et...
Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

Well, on the surface this is true. However, when you get to the really
deep
stuff, you'll find yourself solving the same sort of control theory
problems
whether you are designing a bridge, or an optimising heating controller.
Whether the solution to the control theory problem is made of steel,
transistors or x86 assembly language is just window dressing.

You oversimplify.


---
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:36:11 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer, saying "the next job is
doing
a bridge". get real. Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering disciplines. It is basically
mathematics. There's not much difference in the mathematic contortions
required to design a bridge to resist wind loads as compared with designing
any other control system (mechanical, electrical or electronic).

It's basically all solving differential equations to the highest order you
need. Obviously, there is a certain amount of specialisation into fields,
but this is only about 20-30% of the game. About 70-80% is identical between
disciplines.

Christian.

Exactly.

Also with engineering an important factor is identifying and dealing
with the issues that are going to have the major effects on the
outcome, while being aware of the others and being satisfied that they
are not. This is partly discipline specific, but largely not.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:41:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer,
saying "the next job is doing a bridge". get real.
Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a
certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering
disciplines. It is basically
mathematics.

Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

The point is that equipped with the educational backgound, it is
possible for an individual to embark on a career doing either and to
adapt to doing completely new things. Since the core of what is
required is the same, and many of the thought processes, it is
perfectly possible.



Obviously, there is a certain amount of specialisation into fields,
but this is only about 20-30% of the game. About 70-80% is identical
between
disciplines.

What planet are you on?

One that understands the enduring nature of education based on how to
think, I would imagine.



---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:03:49 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:03:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


IMM wrote:


Electrical and electronic are now very different fields and have been
for a
very long time.

Only in jumped up technical colleges where its not to be expected that
you will be taught to think for yourself.

********!! Snotty uni attitude again. Snotty uni's don't teach
properly,
as they give all the top jobs to themselves, so why know about something
useful.

You really have no idea, do you?

It appears I am one of the few who does have an idea.

When I applied to go to university,
I interviewed at five different places, as was the norm through UCCA
(now UCAS). These were from a range of traditional and redbricks,
some in what is now known as the Russell Group, some not. All of them
took great pains to explain that they are not in the business of
vocational training but in an education in how to think and how to
approach issues, exactly as I already stated and TNP echoed.
Absolutely not an Oxbridge thing.

Uni's do make you think, that is for sure. If you want to know Microsoft
then go and get an MS course. But they do specialise in certain fields.
Lumping it all into one is silly. I know of no uni that does that, apart
from the snots.

More recently, my daughter did a similar application exercise and
interview round among a range of universities including some of the
ex-polys. Among the original universities the principles of what
they are about have not changed from their perspective, although some
of the ex-polys did say that they considered themselves to be more
vocational.

To me the issue is not about teaching, but about learning, and the
main part about learning is motivation and breadth of thought. I
certainly had relatively few lectures, and then there were tutorials
and practicals and projects. The timetabled time was a relatively
small proportion in total. The main aspect was self motivated study,
going and talking to the researchers and lecturers to get information
and reading above and beyond the minimum expected.

Not surprisingly, a lot of people who do well in that environment end
up being adaptable to different situations afterwards and have a
thirst to find out about new things. That may well correlate with a
successful career.

People who do not vertically integrate, specialise, don't do well at all. I
know of people who have not bee to a uni and stayed in then one field
mastering it, rising to the top. They know all within the field, but FA
outside of it, and would find it difficult to adapt. Success? Beyond doubt!
Spreading yourself is not a good thing in a financial sense, as the ST Rich
list proves, in that most of them are not that well educated - look at the
Barclay twins who were decorators. Many of the richest people are not that
bright, but bright enough to know that specialising is the way. This is
where the ex Polys score. Also, the ex Polys have been unis for so long, it
is not worth mentioning that anymore.

On taking in graduates, I generally found the ex Poly uni's graduates far
more clued up and ready to go without to much tuition than the older uni's,
and they could think and reason and adapt to other fields too. Although
this distinction has faded. They are far more up to date, and aware of what
is going on outside. they are not in their Ivory towers.

This type of environment isn't for everybody. Some people do better
in an environment where more of the information is taught and it is
more vocational. I see nothing wrong with that or view it less
valuable to society or the individuals involved than a university
environment.

The point is that the university education is and should be more about
how to think, how to go about finding, dissecting and applying
information, and doing so quickly, efficiently and adaptably.

In my experience all do that except the snots.



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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:13:23 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

Well, on the surface this is true. However, when you get to the really
deep
stuff, you'll find yourself solving the same sort of control theory
problems
whether you are designing a bridge, or an optimising heating controller.
Whether the solution to the control theory problem is made of steel,
transistors or x86 assembly language is just window dressing.

You oversimplify.


I don't think so. The issue is whether the person knows where and
how to find the information and how to apply it.

It's a dangerous position to be in to have expert knowledge in a
specific technology area but not understand the basis of it and
therefore not be able to migrate to the next technology or something
to the side.

The basic principles remain the same.


---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:41:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer,
saying "the next job is doing a bridge". get real.
Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a
certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering
disciplines. It is basically
mathematics.

Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

The point is that equipped with the educational backgound, it is
possible for an individual to embark on a career doing either and to
adapt to doing completely new things.

OK, a board designer joins Ove Arup as a bridge designer. How long will it
be before he does anything useful at all? I would say about 5 years, and
only after course on bridge building. You make sound as if all these snotty
uni people can just flit from one field to another and mater it in weeks.
Please get real.

What planet are you on?

One that understands the enduring nature of education based on how to
think, I would imagine.

See above


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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:32:31 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:41:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer,
saying "the next job is doing a bridge". get real.
Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a
certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering
disciplines. It is basically
mathematics.

Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective of
sums.

The point is that equipped with the educational backgound, it is
possible for an individual to embark on a career doing either and to
adapt to doing completely new things.

OK, a board designer joins Ove Arup as a bridge designer. How long will it
be before he does anything useful at all? I would say about 5 years, and
only after course on bridge building. You make sound as if all these snotty
uni people can just flit from one field to another and mater it in weeks.
Please get real.

Nobody said weeks, or any other timescale.

Personally, I have done analogue, digital, RF, power and
microprocessor systems design - hardware, machine code, assembler, C
and other high level language development; control systems, audio and
video systems. I've then designed and used real time and other
operating systems, networking since before ethernet and IP became
commonplace and datacomms, mainframe and minicomputer
environments..... Apart from engineering, I've done support, sales,
marketing and run businesses successfully.

I could have stayed on a path of designing microprocessor based
control systems and to an extent been perfectly happy with it.
However, it never occurred to me that there should be a limit on
finding out and doing more so I have.

I use the principles of how to go about thinking and finding
information every day. If I needed to go and design a control
system, I could find the relevant information and apply it extremely
quickly.

That's very real.





What planet are you on?

One that understands the enduring nature of education based on how to
think, I would imagine.

See above


---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:32:31 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:41:57 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in
message
. net...

Madness!!!! I can just see a board designer,
saying "the next job is doing a bridge". get real.
Well reality passed the snots by a long time ago.

You'll find that once you get past a
certain level, there isn't actually
much difference between engineering
disciplines. It is basically
mathematics.

Many can adapt to the mathematics of different fields, but designing
an
electronic board and designing a bridge are miles apart, irrespective
of
sums.

The point is that equipped with the educational backgound, it is
possible for an individual to embark on a career doing either and to
adapt to doing completely new things.

OK, a board designer joins Ove Arup as a bridge designer. How long will
it
be before he does anything useful at all? I would say about 5 years, and
only after course on bridge building. You make sound as if all these
snotty
uni people can just flit from one field to another and mater it in weeks.
Please get real.

Nobody said weeks, or any other timescale.

Personally, I have done analogue, digital, RF, power and
microprocessor systems design - hardware, machine code, assembler, C
and other high level language development; control systems, audio and
video systems. I've then designed and used real time and other
operating systems, networking since before ethernet and IP became
commonplace and datacomms, mainframe and minicomputer
environments.....

All related in some way. Now this bridge building.




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