"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The EU is more than a simple trade agreement.

That's where the problem lies yes, with perhaps a dozen or 15
countries manangable but with 27, and plans to extend the problems
will get worse. Which is why other countries haven't tried a similar
thing of that scale.

Of course they have. The United States of America isn't so different. Or
even just the UK.

And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland leave the UK
Ireland isn't part of the UK.

but - the North is and might join with the South

Not going to happen,

to remain in the EU since

regardless of the benefits

there is an open border between the two at present. [part of the Dublin
Peace Accord]

There will be an open border afterwards as well.

Quite how it will work is another matter

tim

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 02/09/2016 15:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The EU is more than a simple trade agreement.

That's where the problem lies yes, with perhaps a dozen or 15 countries
manangable but with 27, and plans to extend the problems will get worse.
Which is why other countries haven't tried a similar thing of that
scale.

Of course they have. The United States of America isn't so different. Or
even just the UK.
And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland
leave the UK - showing their village mentality. Even if you accept all of
England is truly one nation - which plenty would disagree with.


If a piddling little country like Scotland can have independence then the
Midlands can!

not quite so well geographically defined, though, is it?

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:
And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland leave the UK
Ireland isn't part of the UK.

but - the North is and might join with the South

Not going to happen,

to remain in the EU since

regardless of the benefits

there is an open border between the two at present. [part of the Dublin
Peace Accord]

There will be an open border afterwards as well.

Quite how it will work is another matter

Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control immigration.
Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and part of the UK (NI).
So you would then need a fortress border between NI and the UK. Very
convenient - not.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 02/09/2016 15:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The EU is more than a simple trade agreement.

That's where the problem lies yes, with perhaps a dozen or 15
countries manangable but with 27, and plans to extend the problems
will get worse. Which is why other countries haven't tried a similar
thing of that scale.

Of course they have. The United States of America isn't so different.
Or even just the UK. And many of the leavers on here would be happy
to see Scotland and Ireland leave the UK - showing their village
mentality. Even if you accept all of England is truly one nation -
which plenty would disagree with.


If a piddling little country like Scotland can have independence then
the Midlands can!

not quite so well geographically defined, though, is it?

Easy. Trump would have no problem building a wall.





--
*I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 9/3/2016 6:55 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
tim... wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
If a piddling little country like Scotland can have independence then
the Midlands can!

not quite so well geographically defined, though, is it?

Easy. Trump would have no problem building a wall.

And he'd have Mexico pay for it...

On Friday, 2 September 2016 08:15:39 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 1 September 2016 19:18:06 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article , harry
wrote:
On Thursday, 1 September 2016 10:46:40 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 31 August 2016 14:45:53 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
WTF are you talking about ? If we have a trade deal with the USA
will the cost of say an iphone go up or down ?

Apple sets the price they sell things at - not governments.

Who sets the price of VW cars ?

The dealer you buy it from.

Who sets the price of scotch whisky ?

The shop you buy it from.

Drivel. 1st principle of capitalism. Any object is worth what people are
prepared to pay for it.

Have you ever seen a sign in a shop to that effect? No - goods for sale
have a price posted.


You're not at all clever are you?

The price in a shop is the highest people will buy at.

No it's not. If the shop gets it right it's the peak of the profit versus price curve.

It's called a "market".
A market is a place were the monetry worth of an object is established.

may be established, not is established. It often isn't.

When lefty****s try to control this, they end upin trouble.

Or any aspect so business, since lefties so thoroughly fail to understand it. Take the carrier bag charge for example. Informal observation indicates that over 50% at Sainsbury still get new carrier bags, only now they have more than twice as much plastic in than when free.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
Or any aspect so business, since lefties so thoroughly fail to
understand it. Take the carrier bag charge for example. Informal
observation indicates that over 50% at Sainsbury still get new carrier
bags, only now they have more than twice as much plastic in than when
free.

The reverse of my observations. The vast majority bring bags with them now.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/09/2016 12:08, wrote:


Or any aspect so business, since lefties so thoroughly fail to
understand it. Take the carrier bag charge for example. Informal
observation indicates that over 50% at Sainsbury still get new
carrier bags, only now they have more than twice as much plastic in
than when free.

That may be distorted by people like me...
I went into Asda and bought 20 new bags for life so I could use them for
temporary storage while I emptied the kitchen cupboards to replace them.
I don't know what I will do with them later but I doubt if I will just
chuck them at 6p each.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland leave the UK
Ireland isn't part of the UK.

but - the North is and might join with the South

Not going to happen,

to remain in the EU since

regardless of the benefits

there is an open border between the two at present. [part of the Dublin
Peace Accord]

There will be an open border afterwards as well.

Quite how it will work is another matter

Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control immigration.
Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and part of the UK (NI).
So you would then need a fortress border between NI and the UK. Very
convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in via
a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

tim





--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control
immigration. Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and
part of the UK (NI). So you would then need a fortress border between
NI and the UK. Very convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express again.
Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare system. And
would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor would any employer
think of such a thing.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

Properly policed, eh? And just how many extra 'police' would that take?

We already have perhaps thousands of laws never enforced. If they were,
there'd be no illegal drugs on sale. Etc.

Just love hearing from these theorists. Who almost always want to increase
public expenditure - without a clue how it will be paid for.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/09/16 17:01, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control
immigration. Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and
part of the UK (NI). So you would then need a fortress border between
NI and the UK. Very convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express again.
Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare system. And
would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor would any employer
think of such a thing.

Your obsession with them taking a job is irrelevant. There. Are. Too.
Many. People. Here.

15 million more than when I was a kid.

End of.

2 million at the time of the Black death, and no more than that for
several hundred years.

10-15 million is what we should have.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:
And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland leave the UK
Ireland isn't part of the UK.

but - the North is and might join with the South

Not going to happen,

to remain in the EU since

regardless of the benefits

there is an open border between the two at present. [part of the Dublin
Peace Accord]

There will be an open border afterwards as well.

Quite how it will work is another matter

Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders.
Another example of you claiming to know what others think without any
facts to back up your claims.
To control immigration.
Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and part of the UK (NI).
So you would then need a fortress border between NI and the UK. Very
convenient - not.

Remoaner rides again.
--
bert

In article , tim...
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland leave the UK
Ireland isn't part of the UK.

but - the North is and might join with the South

Not going to happen,

to remain in the EU since

regardless of the benefits

there is an open border between the two at present. [part of the Dublin
Peace Accord]

There will be an open border afterwards as well.

Quite how it will work is another matter

Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control immigration.
Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and part of the UK (NI).
So you would then need a fortress border between NI and the UK. Very
convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

Anyone who keeps repeating the same arguments despite it being shot down
each time is in my book a troll.
you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

tim


Explaining things to a troll is pointless



-- *Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.



--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control
immigration. Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and
part of the UK (NI). So you would then need a fortress border between
NI and the UK. Very convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express again.
Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare system. And
would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor would any employer
think of such a thing.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

Properly policed, eh? And just how many extra 'police' would that take?

We already have perhaps thousands of laws never enforced. If they were,
there'd be no illegal drugs on sale. Etc.

Just love hearing from these theorists. Who almost always want to increase
public expenditure - without a clue how it will be paid for.

You're confusing Tim with Corbyn
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 02/09/2016 15:21, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The EU is more than a simple trade agreement.

That's where the problem lies yes, with perhaps a dozen or 15
countries manangable but with 27, and plans to extend the problems
will get worse. Which is why other countries haven't tried a similar
thing of that scale.

Of course they have. The United States of America isn't so different.
Or even just the UK. And many of the leavers on here would be happy
to see Scotland and Ireland leave the UK - showing their village
mentality. Even if you accept all of England is truly one nation -
which plenty would disagree with.


If a piddling little country like Scotland can have independence then
the Midlands can!

not quite so well geographically defined, though, is it?

Easy. Trump would have no problem building a wall.





Yup M6. M5, M42
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
wrote:
Or any aspect so business, since lefties so thoroughly fail to
understand it. Take the carrier bag charge for example. Informal
observation indicates that over 50% at Sainsbury still get new carrier
bags, only now they have more than twice as much plastic in than when
free.

The reverse of my observations. The vast majority bring bags with them now.

You have frequently demonstrated on here that you are not very
observant.
--
bert

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
And many of the leavers on here would be happy to see Scotland and
Ireland leave the UK
Ireland isn't part of the UK.

but - the North is and might join with the South

Not going to happen,

to remain in the EU since

regardless of the benefits

there is an open border between the two at present. [part of the
Dublin
Peace Accord]

There will be an open border afterwards as well.

Quite how it will work is another matter

Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control immigration.
Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and part of the UK
(NI).
So you would then need a fortress border between NI and the UK. Very
convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

Have fun listing any country that has stopped illegals coming that way.

On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already here
then!?

On 03/09/2016 17:01, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control
immigration. Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and
part of the UK (NI). So you would then need a fortress border between
NI and the UK. Very convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express again.
Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare system. And
would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor would any employer
think of such a thing.

Your obsession with them taking a job is irrelevant. There. Are. Too.
Many. People. Here.

15 million more than when I was a kid.

End of.


14 million of those would be British so which ones are you going to get
rid of and how?

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control
immigration. Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and
part of the UK (NI). So you would then need a fortress border
between NI and the UK. Very convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express again.
Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare system. And
would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor would any employer
think of such a thing.

Your obsession with them taking a job is irrelevant. There. Are. Too.
Many. People. Here.

15 million more than when I was a kid.

End of.

And you've neatly sidestepped just how we are going to seal those borders.

Rather typical of the leavers. State all the things they dislike without
having a clue how to sort them.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Indeed. Many want fortress UK as regards borders. To control
immigration. Yet no border at all between an EU country (Eire) and
part of the UK (NI). So you would then need a fortress border between
NI and the UK. Very convenient - not.

how many more times do you need to be told

you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express again.
Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare system. And
would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor would any employer
think of such a thing.

The incidents of this are going down as penalties increase

tim

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already here
then!?


we have only recently enacted stronger laws to stop them working/getting
accommodation

it will take time to bed in

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:
You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express
again. Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare
system. And would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor
would any employer think of such a thing.

The incidents of this are going down as penalties increase

I doubt penalties make much of a difference. I'd say most law abiding
citizens see nothing wrong in paying their window cleaner etc in cash. And
any other 'domestics' they might employ. And a builder, etc, if he offers
a discount for cash.

To police the cash economy properly would require numbers no government
would entertain. And my guess is the same will apply to borders.

--
*And the cardiologist' s diet: - If it tastes good spit it out.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already here
then!?


we have only recently enacted stronger laws to stop them working/getting
accommodation

it will take time to bed in

Plenty of places have had those for years now and it makes no difference.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
You're having a laugh, aren't you? You've been reading the Express
again. Where immigrants just come here to freeload off the welfare
system. And would never dream of taking a job which paid cash. Nor
would any employer think of such a thing.

The incidents of this are going down as penalties increase

I doubt penalties make much of a difference. I'd say most law abiding
citizens see nothing wrong in paying their window cleaner etc in cash.

we pay our window cleaner by bank transfer - that's the way he wants it.
But then, he's from eastern Europe with a flourishing businesss.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 04/09/2016 09:02, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already
here then!?


we have only recently enacted stronger laws to stop them working/getting
accommodation

That's rubbish.
Its always been illegal to employ an illegal.


it will take time to bed in

tim

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 04/09/2016 09:02, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already
here then!?


we have only recently enacted stronger laws to stop them working/getting
accommodation

That's rubbish.

Nope.

Its always been illegal to employ an illegal.

But there have been stronger laws that require you
to check if those you are about to employ or provide
accommodation for are legally in the country with
more severe penaltys if you don’t bother to do that.

it will take time to bed in

On Saturday, 3 September 2016 23:36:35 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already here
then!?

They are here because we're NOT properly policed.

In article ,
harry writes
On Saturday, 3 September 2016 23:36:35 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already here
then!?

They are here because we're NOT properly policed.
...and when the police do do their job the pc mob don't let us get rid of
them, hence there is no deterrent effect.
--
bert

On 30/08/2016 09:20, Nightjar wrote:
On 29-Aug-16 7:57 AM, harry wrote:
https://www.apnews.com/ed56e6f1643e4...r-distribution



We haven't left yet and we don't yet know what conditions will be
imposed upon us if, as is probable, we wish to continue to be part of
the single market. While in, we had several exemptions from EU
requirements, including control of immigration, that we can no longer
guarantee once we leave.




Article 50 not even initiated ......... wouldn't surprise me if we get
some improved positions, and UK Gov decides not to leave after all.
They do not have to leave the vote is not binding.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 3 September 2016 23:36:35 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/09/2016 15:16, tim... wrote:


you do not need border controls to control immigration

Immigration is controlled by making sure that anybody who does sneak in
via a backdoor method has no rights when they get here.

Properly policed they would soon learn not to come

That would explain why there are so many illegal immigrants already here
then!?

They are here because we're NOT properly policed.

They are there because it isnt even possible to properly police
because anyone can show up on a tourist visa and stay for as
long as they like.