http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the preparations.

On 20/08/16 01:37, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.


A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the preparations.


A good way to kick their economy in the nuts if thy have made the
preparations.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to keep
it out of your own back yard.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 20/08/16 08:40, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

I assume you are joking?

The average stupid green and red watermelon lefty**** doesn't care about
pollution except in his street, and doesn't really care about how energy
is made as long as he can afford to buy it and his virtue signalling
windmills are flapping their prayers wheels to placate his precious
conscience.


Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to keep
it out of your own back yard.

Head, nail, hit, on.

Brian



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 20/08/2016 08:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, they do have a way to go to catch us up in terms of reducing CO2
emission per capita. 2014 Figures: Netherlands 9.4t (down from 11.1t
in 2007); UK 6.5t.
http://tinyurl.com/a4jgf5m and http://tinyurl.com/jeq3zcf


They're pretty reliant on fossil fuels. That's changing, and I'd expect
it go down a lot over the next 20 years. Their per-capita consumption of
electricity isn't that high.

I don't think many on this group take CO2 production as a proxy of
anything bad, though.

But I thought Holland was flat and they all rode bicycles!
http://tinyurl.com/hkqkuec


Seems that way from my limited experience!


--
Cheers, Rob

On 8/20/2016 6:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/08/16 01:37, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.


A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the preparations.


A good way to kick their economy in the nuts if thy have made the
preparations.

Don't need much range in the Netherlands. Also no hills. (Don't really
disagree with you though).

On 20-Aug-16 8:40 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Netherlands has loads of wind and tidal power, I thought? Once that is
set up, there's almost no pollution, apart from a bit of noise.

Using excess electricity at night to charge cars seems a perfect
solution to the issue of how to store surplus electricity.

Please feel free to flame me if I'm wrong.

"GB" wrote in message ...

On 20-Aug-16 8:40 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Netherlands has loads of wind and tidal power, I thought? Once that is set
up, there's almost no pollution, apart from a bit of noise.

Using excess electricity at night to charge cars seems a perfect solution
to the issue of how to store surplus electricity.

Please feel free to flame me if I'm wrong.

That would just add CO2.
http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/06/28/dut...secutive-year/

In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the preparations.

I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

-- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror
service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge
protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the
preparations.

I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

If the legislation goes through, I presume the Netherlands will invest
heavily in recharging points. Hopefully by 2025 battery technology will have
improved enough for people to be able to make long journeys by electric cars
without having to stop every n-hundred miles for an overnight recharging
stop.

If I could get an electric car that had the same range (700 miles per
filling) and the same refill time (about 5 mins max for 60 litres / 700
miles) then I might consider an electric car. I wonder what they are like to
drive. I presume electric cars have a single-speed gearing between motor and
wheels, ad can set off from the motor being at rest, without needing a
variety of ratios to match a limited range of motor speeds to a wide range
of road speeds and without needing a clutch.

Do hybrid cars use mechanical transmission from the IC engine to the wheels,
or are they permanently driven by the motor, with power coming either from
the batteries or the engine driving a generator?

On 20/08/16 13:24, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

-- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror
service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge
protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the
preparations.

I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

Still make (Leyland) trucks.


Spyker

http://www.spykercars.com/

Donkervoort

http://www.donkervoort.com/en/

etc etc.



--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On 20/08/16 13:40, NY wrote:
If I could get an electric car that had the same range (700 miles per
filling) and the same refill time (about 5 mins max for 60 litres / 700
miles) then I might consider an electric car.

Me too.

I wonder what they are
like to drive. I presume electric cars have a single-speed gearing
between motor and wheels,

No. Usually a couple of gears minimum

ad can set off from the motor being at rest,
without needing a variety of ratios to match a limited range of motor
speeds to a wide range of road speeds and without needing a clutch.


No clutch unless maybe a centrifugal.


Do hybrid cars use mechanical transmission from the IC engine to the
wheels, or are they permanently driven by the motor, with power coming
either from the batteries or the engine driving a generator?

Pass: I think both


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

In article ,
charles wrote:
I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

Disappeared without trace, hopefully. ;-)

Didn't it get taken over by Renault?

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
NY wrote:
If I could get an electric car that had the same range (700 miles per
filling) and the same refill time (about 5 mins max for 60 litres / 700
miles) then I might consider an electric car. I wonder what they are
like to drive. I presume electric cars have a single-speed gearing
between motor and wheels, ad can set off from the motor being at rest,
without needing a variety of ratios to match a limited range of motor
speeds to a wide range of road speeds and without needing a clutch.

Never considered an auto? ;-)

--
*Gun Control: Use both hands.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/08/2016 14:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

Disappeared without trace, hopefully. ;-)

Didn't it get taken over by Renault?

No, Volvo.

Some 340s had the DAF rubber bands.

Looks like Volvo moved out - the factory is now making Minis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDL_Nedcar

In article ,
Clive George wrote:
On 20/08/2016 14:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

Disappeared without trace, hopefully. ;-)

Didn't it get taken over by Renault?

No, Volvo.

Ah - of course. And Volvo bought Renault. All Chinese now?

Some 340s had the DAF rubber bands.

Yes.

Looks like Volvo moved out - the factory is now making Minis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDL_Nedcar

--
*Life is hard; then you nap

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/08/2016 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Clive George wrote:
On 20/08/2016 14:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

Disappeared without trace, hopefully. ;-)

Didn't it get taken over by Renault?

No, Volvo.

Ah - of course. And Volvo bought Renault. All Chinese now?

They nearly merged, but that got rejected on the Volvo side. Volvo
trucks did buy Renault trucks though. But yes, Volvo cars went to Ford,
and are now Chinese.

In article e4aab173-f98d-4d2c-847a-0336c2bbd4f7
@googlegroups.com, says...

On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the preparations.

Have they factored in the increased load on electricity
generation?

I wonder just how big that increase would be as a
percentage of current(!) demand?

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 13:23:56 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

-- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror
service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge
protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the
preparations.

I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

They were taken over by Volvo and closed down a few years later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAF_Trucks#Car_business

They still make trucks and buses.

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 13:39:42 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

If the legislation goes through, I presume the Netherlands will invest
heavily in recharging points. Hopefully by 2025 battery technology will have
improved enough for people to be able to make long journeys by electric cars
without having to stop every n-hundred miles for an overnight recharging
stop.

If I could get an electric car that had the same range (700 miles per
filling) and the same refill time (about 5 mins max for 60 litres / 700
miles) then I might consider an electric car. I wonder what they are like to
drive. I presume electric cars have a single-speed gearing between motor and
wheels, ad can set off from the motor being at rest, without needing a
variety of ratios to match a limited range of motor speeds to a wide range
of road speeds and without needing a clutch.

Do hybrid cars use mechanical transmission from the IC engine to the wheels,
or are they permanently driven by the motor, with power coming either from
the batteries or the engine driving a generator?

There are various designs.
The simplest is a front wheel drive ICE with and electric rear wheel drive.
The mechanical connection is the highway.

There are series designs (similar to submarines and parellel devices.
I expect at some point one system or the other will come out on top.

Electric "motors" and "generators" are the same thing.
In electric cars one device does both.

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 13:39:42 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

If the legislation goes through, I presume the Netherlands will invest
heavily in recharging points. Hopefully by 2025 battery technology will have
improved enough for people to be able to make long journeys by electric cars
without having to stop every n-hundred miles for an overnight recharging
stop.

If I could get an electric car that had the same range (700 miles per
filling) and the same refill time (about 5 mins max for 60 litres / 700
miles) then I might consider an electric car. I wonder what they are like to
drive. I presume electric cars have a single-speed gearing between motor and
wheels, ad can set off from the motor being at rest, without needing a
variety of ratios to match a limited range of motor speeds to a wide range
of road speeds and without needing a clutch.

Do hybrid cars use mechanical transmission from the IC engine to the wheels,
or are they permanently driven by the motor, with power coming either from
the batteries or the engine driving a generator?

700 mile ranges are not even on the horizon.

There might be cars where the battery electrolyte is changed to "recharge" the battery.

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to keep
it out of your own back yard.
Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night.
It's the only way the system could stand it.

In article , harry
wrote:
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is
where the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes
on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to
keep it out of your own back yard. Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night.

From your solar panels. I assume

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 20/08/16 16:54, Sam Plusnet wrote:
In article e4aab173-f98d-4d2c-847a-0336c2bbd4f7
@googlegroups.com, says...

On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the preparations.

Have they factored in the increased load on electricity
generation?

I wonder just how big that increase would be as a
percentage of current(!) demand?

I did that calc once. Hard top be exact but to move to all electric
vehicles is probably around doubling the grid, and to move to all
electric everything else is around trebling it.

IIRC the total UK consumption of energy is around 350GW average, but of
course some of that fuel burn is in inefficient IC engines.

100 Hinkley points would power rhe entire country for everything.

Dont even ask how many solar panels....or windmills


--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

-- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror
service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge
protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the
preparations.

I'd guess the vast number of Dutch cars are imported? If not all?

whatever happened to DAF?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDL_Nedcar

In article , GB
writes
On 20-Aug-16 8:40 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Netherlands has loads of wind and tidal power, I thought? Once that is
set up, there's almost no pollution, apart from a bit of noise.

Using excess electricity at night to charge cars seems a perfect
solution to the issue of how to store surplus electricity.

And on a calm night?
Please feel free to flame me if I'm wrong.



--
bert

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

The EU won't allow them to restrict moment of foreigner through their
country which is on major trans-Europe routes

And not until 2025.

I doubt that there will be affordable products available even by then, for
it to be enforced.


And the legislation is not a certainty.

But looking likely

tim

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 8/20/2016 6:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/08/16 01:37, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.


A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the
preparations.


A good way to kick their economy in the nuts if thy have made the
preparations.

Don't need much range in the Netherlands. Also no hills. (Don't really
disagree with you though).

Most people in Europe frequently cross borders.

Suggesting that the Dutch only need the range to reach Dutch locations is
silly

tim

"NY" wrote in message
...
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

If the legislation goes through, I presume the Netherlands will invest
heavily in recharging points. Hopefully by 2025 battery technology will
have improved enough for people to be able to make long journeys by
electric cars without having to stop every n-hundred miles for an
overnight recharging stop.

If I could get an electric car that had the same range (700 miles per
filling) and the same refill time (about 5 mins max for 60 litres / 700
miles) then I might consider an electric car.

what, at any price

or is price still a barrier for you

tim

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 16:54:37 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

In article e4aab173-f98d-4d2c-847a-0336c2bbd4f7
, says...

On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:32:50 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:25:56 -0700, harry wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e/netherlands-
petrol-car-ban-law-bill-to-be-passed-reduce-climate-change-emissions-
a7197136.html

All cars to be electric.

Well, that's a bit of a leap. Banning sale, not use.

And not until 2025.

And the legislation is not a certainty.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

A good way to kick start their economy if thy have made the
preparations.

Have they factored in the increased load on electricity
generation?

I wonder just how big that increase would be as a
percentage of current(!) demand?

250%

Government estimates that in 2014 UK road transport used 40 mtoe
(million tonnes of oil equivalent)*. That's 40 x 11630 GWh, or 465200
GWh, i.e. a power requirement of 53 GW (465200/365/24). Average UK
electrical power consumption at present is about 35 GW. So road
transport uses about 1.5 times as much energy as the national grid
presently supplies.


Though somewhat less efficiently so you can perhaps knock 20% off your
number (not that it makes it much easier)

tim

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to
keep
it out of your own back yard.
Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night.
It's the only way the system could stand it.

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require a
complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to get
better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral garages
into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage and planning rules
would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont have the facilities
to charge up at home - Charging up on the street, unguarded, overnight just
isn't going to work.

tim

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is
where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to
keep
it out of your own back yard.
Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night.
It's the only way the system could stand it.

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require
a complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to
get better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral
garages into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage and planning
rules would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont have the
facilities to charge up at home - Charging up on the street, unguarded,
overnight just isn't going to work.

And we'd have to get used to changing how we use our cars, because we could
never venture further away from home (or some other place which has a
charging point and where we intend to spend the night) than range of the car
will allow. No more driving a couple of hundred miles in a day when going
to/from holiday or going to see relatives.

And you could only visit people who had a charging point. Do electric cars
generally require specialised hardware at the charging point or can that
hardware be made portable so it can be taken with you and plugged into any
three-pin socket?

In article , tim...
wrote:

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is
where the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes
on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa
to keep it out of your own back yard. Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night. It's the only way
the system could stand it.

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require
a complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to
get better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral
garages into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage and planning
rules would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont have the
facilities to charge up at home - Charging up on the street, unguarded,
overnight just isn't going to work.

Communal car parks with charging points would work fine. They already
exist in parts of Norway/Sweden to provide power for engine heaters. There
is no basic reason why roadside parking meters could be conveted into power
outlets. There's the underlying infrastructure, of course, but it could be
done.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is
where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to
keep
it out of your own back yard.
Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night.
It's the only way the system could stand it.

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require
a complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to
get better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral
garages into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage

Nope, you'd be free to charge it in the drive or even
in the communal parking if that is designed properly.

and planning rules would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont
have the facilities to charge up at home - Charging up on the street,
unguarded, overnight just isn't going to work.

Corse it would in communal parking.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"tim..." wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is
where
the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa to
keep
it out of your own back yard.
Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night.
It's the only way the system could stand it.

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require
a complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to
get better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral
garages into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage and planning
rules would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont have the
facilities to charge up at home - Charging up on the street, unguarded,
overnight just isn't going to work.

And we'd have to get used to changing how we use our cars, because we
could never venture further away from home (or some other place which has
a charging point and where we intend to spend the night) than range of the
car will allow. No more driving a couple of hundred miles in a day when
going to/from holiday or going to see relatives.

And you could only visit people who had a charging point. Do electric cars
generally require specialised hardware at the charging point or can that
hardware be made portable so it can be taken with you and plugged into any
three-pin socket?

Depends on how long you want to wait for the car to be charged.

On 21/08/16 10:58, charles wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 08:40:52 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
I expect all those in the eu who live neer a pwoer station which is
where the increase in pollution will go, to take action if this goes
on.

Its a bit like taking all your awkward to dispose of waste to Africa
to keep it out of your own back yard. Brian

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night. It's the only way
the system could stand it.

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require
a complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to
get better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral
garages into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage and planning
rules would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont have the
facilities to charge up at home - Charging up on the street, unguarded,
overnight just isn't going to work.

Communal car parks with charging points would work fine. They already
exist in parts of Norway/Sweden to provide power for engine heaters. There
is no basic reason why roadside parking meters could be conveted into power
outlets. There's the underlying infrastructure, of course, but it could be
done.

for decent charge rates - e.g, a 1 hour charge on a 50Kwh battery you
need some hefty infrastructure.

Not saying its not possible, over a period of time, but its not cheap
and it isn't that simple.

Will rollout similar to broadband I'd say - 20 years or so.

I think that with nuclear power we are on the cusp. 1 hour fast charge
means that you can use e.g supermarkets equipped with power points.

If we could get a real 100 mile range and fast charge - under an hour -
then its not ideal, but a lot of people would say that that is an
acceptable performance for the vast majority of urban/suburban trips
which are indeed school run supermarket etc.

Of course it would have to be cost effective too. And the loss of tax
income from falling fuel sales would be a problem.








--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

In article ,
NY wrote:
If the legislation goes through, I presume the Netherlands will invest
heavily in recharging points. Hopefully by 2025 battery technology will
have improved enough for people to be able to make long journeys by
electric cars without having to stop every n-hundred miles for an
overnight recharging stop.

I'd not hold my breath. Since the very first electric car well over 100
years ago, the quest has been on for better batteries. As it is for
virtually every type of portable electric device. The chances of some
breakthrough that will provide what you want at a affordable price, remote.

--
*The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.