Are there any tricks to fixing door handles? I've been putting new door
handles in the rooms. I've had several where the catch won't spring back
properly once both handles have been installed. This is because I
haven't got the handle absolutely square and there's enough friction
between the connecting rod and the handles or the lock so that the spring
can't return the latch properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.

The handles need to be accurately positioned, even 1mm too high too too
low is sufficient to cause the lock to bind. So are there any tricks for
getting the handles accurately positioned and fixed?

Well I found buying handle sets with strong springs was a good idea quite
early on.
Brian

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"Kit Jackson" wrote in message
web.com...
Are there any tricks to fixing door handles? I've been putting new door
handles in the rooms. I've had several where the catch won't spring back
properly once both handles have been installed. This is because I
haven't got the handle absolutely square and there's enough friction
between the connecting rod and the handles or the lock so that the spring
can't return the latch properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.

The handles need to be accurately positioned, even 1mm too high too too
low is sufficient to cause the lock to bind. So are there any tricks for
getting the handles accurately positioned and fixed?

On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.



I don't know if it is the best method but I've found it helps to make a
template for the holes in the plate with stiff card, then use that to
mark the door, drill pilot holes and put the screws in. Then when you
put the handle on the pre-existing holes keep the screws straight.
Well, usually

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:
Are there any tricks to fixing door handles? I've been putting new door
handles in the rooms. I've had several where the catch won't spring back
properly once both handles have been installed. This is because I
haven't got the handle absolutely square and there's enough friction
between the connecting rod and the handles or the lock so that the spring
can't return the latch properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.

Can you not fix the plate before you attach the knob?




--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:54:07 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.



I don't know if it is the best method but I've found it helps to make a
template for the holes in the plate with stiff card, then use that to
mark the door, drill pilot holes and put the screws in. Then when you
put the handle on the pre-existing holes keep the screws straight. Well,
usually

Yes, of course. That's the way to do it. Same as any repeated job,
first make a jig. Thanks.

In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.



I don't know if it is the best method but I've found it helps to make a
template for the holes in the plate with stiff card, then use that to
mark the door, drill pilot holes and put the screws in. Then when you
put the handle on the pre-existing holes keep the screws straight.
Well, usually

Yes. If you can, drill the pilot holes for the fixing screws right through
the door keeping the drill absolutely square.

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:36:29 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:
Are there any tricks to fixing door handles? I've been putting new
door handles in the rooms. I've had several where the catch won't
spring back properly once both handles have been installed. This is
because I haven't got the handle absolutely square and there's enough
friction between the connecting rod and the handles or the lock so that
the spring can't return the latch properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.

Can you not fix the plate before you attach the knob?


We didn't get the handles from Screwfix but these are similar.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/carlisle-b...mortice-knobs-
pair-52mm/9049h

So they are screwed directly in position. What's the part called that
the screws actually go through? Is it a plate or a flange or a rose?

It seems the whole thing is not a handle anyway it's a knob.

On 18/08/2016 15:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.



I don't know if it is the best method but I've found it helps to make a
template for the holes in the plate with stiff card, then use that to
mark the door, drill pilot holes and put the screws in. Then when you
put the handle on the pre-existing holes keep the screws straight.
Well, usually

Yes. If you can, drill the pilot holes for the fixing screws right through
the door keeping the drill absolutely square.

The OP reported 2 problems. What I posted was addressed at the second -
viz. getting the screws in straight. I don't see why that requires
pilot holes drilled "right through the door". Nor do I see why the
drill has to be "absolutely square". But then all I was after was
something better than can be done when there's a big knob in the way.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:14:19 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 18/08/2016 15:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
On 17/08/2016 09:29, Kit Jackson wrote:

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the
handle itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the
door so it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are
all at a very slight angle.



I don't know if it is the best method but I've found it helps to make
a template for the holes in the plate with stiff card, then use that
to mark the door, drill pilot holes and put the screws in. Then when
you put the handle on the pre-existing holes keep the screws straight.
Well, usually

Yes. If you can, drill the pilot holes for the fixing screws right
through the door keeping the drill absolutely square.

The OP reported 2 problems. What I posted was addressed at the second -
viz. getting the screws in straight. I don't see why that requires
pilot holes drilled "right through the door". Nor do I see why the
drill has to be "absolutely square". But then all I was after was
something better than can be done when there's a big knob in the way.

Yes, it's funny how often a big knob will get in the way. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Wednesday, 17 August 2016 09:29:54 UTC+1, Kit Jackson wrote:
Are there any tricks to fixing door handles? I've been putting new door
handles in the rooms. I've had several where the catch won't spring back
properly once both handles have been installed. This is because I
haven't got the handle absolutely square and there's enough friction
between the connecting rod and the handles or the lock so that the spring
can't return the latch properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.

The handles need to be accurately positioned, even 1mm too high too too
low is sufficient to cause the lock to bind. So are there any tricks for
getting the handles accurately positioned and fixed?

Lever type handles should shave a circumferential spring to offset the unbalanced weight of the handle.
Keeps the handle horizontal.

Needs to be moved in some designs depending on left or right hand doors.

On 18/08/2016 17:11, Kit Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:36:29 +0100, John Rumm wrote:


Can you not fix the plate before you attach the knob?


We didn't get the handles from Screwfix but these are similar.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/carlisle-b...mortice-knobs-
pair-52mm/9049h

So they are screwed directly in position. What's the part called that
the screws actually go through? Is it a plate or a flange or a rose?

Yup that design is a bit crap. I find if you loosely fit the knobs on
both sides you can usually feel the point at which the shaft feels free
and "floating" between them.

For awkward fixings, I sometimes use a blob of hot melt adhesive on the
back so that I can stick it in the right place first. That stops it
moving about while getting the screws in.

It seems the whole thing is not a handle anyway it's a knob.

Yup


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Kit Jackson wrote:

Are there any tricks to fixing door handles? I've been putting new door
handles in the rooms. I've had several where the catch won't spring back
properly once both handles have been installed. This is because I
haven't got the handle absolutely square and there's enough friction
between the connecting rod and the handles or the lock so that the spring
can't return the latch properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that the handles are round and the handle
itself is a larger diameter than the plate that screws to the door so
it's difficult to get the screws to go in straight. They are all at a
very slight angle.

The handles need to be accurately positioned, even 1mm too high too too
low is sufficient to cause the lock to bind. So are there any tricks for
getting the handles accurately positioned and fixed?

I found that friction, plus the lack of a return spring on knobs (which
are apparently what you are using) meant that they were nearly always
unsatisfactory with standard door latches. You can get especially
strong latches with a sufficiently strong return spring to overcome a
considerable amount of friction. An example which proved satisfactory:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Euro-Spec-...bi6Eh12pmR3y-Q

Two disadvantages I could warn you about, firstly they only turn one
way, which actually helps if the knob on only one side of the door is a
bit too near the frame for one's knuckles; and secondly they were a
small Imperial unit of measurement bigger than the existing ones. This
may be just because the old ones were old, but possibly they are a
millimetre or two bigger then the standard.

Solved the same problem when I suffered it.




--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Robin wrote:
Yes. If you can, drill the pilot holes for the fixing screws right through
the door keeping the drill absolutely square.

The OP reported 2 problems. What I posted was addressed at the second -
viz. getting the screws in straight. I don't see why that requires
pilot holes drilled "right through the door". Nor do I see why the
drill has to be "absolutely square". But then all I was after was
something better than can be done when there's a big knob in the way.

Because it is often slight misalignment that causes the handles to stick.
It adds friction to the system.

--
*Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Robin wrote:
Yes. If you can, drill the pilot holes for the fixing screws right through
the door keeping the drill absolutely square.

The OP reported 2 problems. What I posted was addressed at the second -
viz. getting the screws in straight. I don't see why that requires
pilot holes drilled "right through the door". Nor do I see why the
drill has to be "absolutely square". But then all I was after was
something better than can be done when there's a big knob in the way.

Because it is often slight misalignment that causes the handles to stick.
It adds friction to the system.

Speaking as an expert on the making and bodging of errors, I feel your
method will only make the original misalignment worse, and not leave the
option of moving the second knob in the opposite direction to the first!

--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Because it is often slight misalignment that causes the handles to stick.
It adds friction to the system.

Speaking as an expert on the making and bodging of errors, I feel your
method will only make the original misalignment worse, and not leave the
option of moving the second knob in the opposite direction to the first!

Like everything else it needs some skill. It's how I've fitted new handles
for ages even on old doors. But obviously make good any old holes with new
wood first.

Non of my many door handles stick. ;-)

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/08/2016 16:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Because it is often slight misalignment that causes the handles to stick.
It adds friction to the system.

Speaking as an expert on the making and bodging of errors, I feel your
method will only make the original misalignment worse, and not leave the
option of moving the second knob in the opposite direction to the first!

Like everything else it needs some skill. It's how I've fitted new handles
for ages even on old doors. But obviously make good any old holes with new
wood first.


And refitting the latch if that's not square else the spindle will stick
when the roses and spindle are square (if the spindle fits at all then)?

And repainting the whole door if the new roses don't cover the marks
made by the old ones?

If so good for you.

But as I did try to emphasise I was addressing only the issue of getting
the screws in straight(ish). I wasn't making any assumptions about the
OP having not just the skill but also the the time and money to do a
perfect job. (I don't claim to have the skill but I do know I've helped
out neighbours who'd have been mortified if I'd told them they needed
their doors refurbished just 'cos they wanted brass knobs and they
started off with doors where the rose on one side was well above and to
one side of the one on t'other side. And my handles didn't stick after a
bit of bodging by way of enlarging holes, fiddling roses about and
shortening spindles. Well, not much!)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Because it is often slight misalignment that causes the handles to stick.
It adds friction to the system.

Speaking as an expert on the making and bodging of errors, I feel your
method will only make the original misalignment worse, and not leave the
option of moving the second knob in the opposite direction to the first!

Like everything else it needs some skill. It's how I've fitted new handles
for ages even on old doors. But obviously make good any old holes with new
wood first.

Non of my many door handles stick. ;-)

Facetiousness apart, I am sure your method is a very good one if you get
the holes in the right place and you can drill perpendicularly.


--

Roger Hayter

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Like everything else it needs some skill. It's how I've fitted new
handles for ages even on old doors. But obviously make good any old
holes with new wood first.

Non of my many door handles stick. ;-)

Facetiousness apart, I am sure your method is a very good one if you get
the holes in the right place and you can drill perpendicularly.

Only giving the method I use which works well for me. You are perfectly
entitled to ignore it and use whatever suits you best.

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 08:23:41 UTC+1, Kit Jackson wrote:

Yes, of course. That's the way to do it. Same as any repeated job,
first make a jig.

A common fault is not making the holes big enough with thee inevitable result of catching the catches. OTOH if you make them too big your screws won't hold.

If you make a complete hash of it don't be afraid to block it with a stub of broom handle and filler and try again. (Get a drill the diameter of a skinny broom handle to be prepared for that.)

On 19/08/2016 22:59, Roger Hayter wrote:


Facetiousness apart, I am sure your method is a very good one if you get
the holes in the right place and you can drill perpendicularly.



To get the pilot holes perpendicular to the door surface make the jig at
least 2", or more, deep and drill the guide holes with a pillar drill*
through the 2". Clamp the jig to the door and drill through the guide
holes.

* Or with your normal electric drill in a cheap drill stand
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bench-Powe...-/162047662049
--
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