I stumbled across this (no affiliation etc.) the other day:

https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/colorfabb-xt-cf20.html

A couple of years ago I experimented with 3d printing and concluded it
was (at least) a couple of years away from being useful and/or practical.

I wonder now if the technology has moved on enough to be worth spending
time on trying again. There are some very useful things I could do with
printed carbon fibre, but I realise that could end up wasting many hours.

Anyone care to share their views?

Thanks.

On Sunday, 27 September 2015 21:37:22 UTC+1, WeeBob wrote:
I stumbled across this (no affiliation etc.) the other day:

https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/colorfabb-xt-cf20.html

A couple of years ago I experimented with 3d printing and concluded it
was (at least) a couple of years away from being useful and/or practical.

I wonder now if the technology has moved on enough to be worth spending
time on trying again. There are some very useful things I could do with
printed carbon fibre, but I realise that could end up wasting many hours.

Anyone care to share their views?

Thanks.

I gather 3d printing is rather expensive, that all the sub 1k machines are basically pants. The concrete printers look most interesting imho.


NT

On 27/09/2015 21:37, WeeBob wrote:
I stumbled across this (no affiliation etc.) the other day:

https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/colorfabb-xt-cf20.html

A couple of years ago I experimented with 3d printing and concluded it
was (at least) a couple of years away from being useful and/or practical.

I wonder now if the technology has moved on enough to be worth spending
time on trying again. There are some very useful things I could do with
printed carbon fibre, but I realise that could end up wasting many hours.

Anyone care to share their views?

Thanks.

Do any of the laser ones that print in a tank of resin work with
glass/carbon filled resin (~5%)?

If so they could make pretty strong parts.

The ABS extruders have quite a weak bond between layers.

On Monday, 28 September 2015 01:57:45 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 27 September 2015 21:37:22 UTC+1, WeeBob wrote:
I stumbled across this (no affiliation etc.) the other day:

https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/colorfabb-xt-cf20.html

A couple of years ago I experimented with 3d printing and concluded it
was (at least) a couple of years away from being useful and/or practical.

I wonder now if the technology has moved on enough to be worth spending
time on trying again. There are some very useful things I could do with
printed carbon fibre, but I realise that could end up wasting many hours.

Anyone care to share their views?

Thanks.

I gather 3d printing is rather expensive, that all the sub 1k machines are basically pants. The concrete printers look most interesting imho.

3D printing is very expensive unless you're really carfull. Check out the cost of consumables for the printer you have in mind.
We brought a printer recently not sue which one but it was £10k+
Material £500 per KG the washable plastic which is used as support cost £150 a KG and that gets washed down the plug hole !

It;'s also a slow process painfully slow on the sub £1k printers and the resolutions pretty low. It can take 5 hours or more to print something
of more than a couple of inches high & wide.
Also the siftware can be a bit hit and miss some is better than others, some will waste plastic and take far longet to print.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:37:18 +0100, WeeBob
wrote:

I stumbled across this (no affiliation etc.) the other day:

https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/colorfabb-xt-cf20.html

A couple of years ago I experimented with 3d printing and concluded it
was (at least) a couple of years away from being useful and/or practical.

And here we are, with sub £300 machines doing good work. ;-)

I wonder now if the technology has moved on enough to be worth spending
time on trying again.

I think so, depending etc.

There are some very useful things I could do with
printed carbon fibre, but I realise that could end up wasting many hours.

Just this morning I designed and my mate is currently printing a
bracket to support a water trap I found in my workshop to fit onto the
wall near my compressor. This is just one example of many things I've
now designed and printed, including all the plastic parts for my own
printer and for brackets for cycles, torches, trailers and such.

Anyone care to share their views?

Yes. I built a MendelMax 1.5 with / for a mate who would only buy one
(in kit form) if I agreed to help build it with him. ;-)

Luckily, I had previous engineering, electronics, electrical, Arduino
and programming experience so this was nothing completely new, outside
of the actual details of this particular printer. The first test
print, a 20mm cube came out square and 19.97mm so we were pleased we
had understood what was required and done a good job. ;-)

Since it was assembled (from a kit, we thought that would be wise for
the first machine) it has been in near-daily use, with only the odd
misprint and very little in the way of maintenance.

I am looking forward to having my own printer and now have most of the
parts ready and waiting (simply for the convenience of prototyping
stuff in my own time).

The PLA we use is pretty tough and fairly cheap (£14/kilo) and the
time it takes to print some things is still generally only a fraction
of the time it would take to manually fabricate / turn / mill the same
(even out of plastic)! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 28/09/2015 14:20, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:37:18 +0100, WeeBob
wrote:

I stumbled across this (no affiliation etc.) the other day:

https://www.goprint3d.co.uk/colorfabb-xt-cf20.html

A couple of years ago I experimented with 3d printing and concluded it
was (at least) a couple of years away from being useful and/or practical.

And here we are, with sub £300 machines doing good work. ;-)

I wonder now if the technology has moved on enough to be worth spending
time on trying again.

I think so, depending etc.

There are some very useful things I could do with
printed carbon fibre, but I realise that could end up wasting many hours.

Just this morning I designed and my mate is currently printing a
bracket to support a water trap I found in my workshop to fit onto the
wall near my compressor. This is just one example of many things I've
now designed and printed, including all the plastic parts for my own
printer and for brackets for cycles, torches, trailers and such.

Anyone care to share their views?

Yes. I built a MendelMax 1.5 with / for a mate who would only buy one
(in kit form) if I agreed to help build it with him. ;-)

Luckily, I had previous engineering, electronics, electrical, Arduino
and programming experience so this was nothing completely new, outside
of the actual details of this particular printer. The first test
print, a 20mm cube came out square and 19.97mm so we were pleased we
had understood what was required and done a good job. ;-)

Since it was assembled (from a kit, we thought that would be wise for
the first machine) it has been in near-daily use, with only the odd
misprint and very little in the way of maintenance.

I am looking forward to having my own printer and now have most of the
parts ready and waiting (simply for the convenience of prototyping
stuff in my own time).

The PLA we use is pretty tough and fairly cheap (£14/kilo) and the
time it takes to print some things is still generally only a fraction
of the time it would take to manually fabricate / turn / mill the same
(even out of plastic)! ;-)

Thanks for that insight, that was my understanding of current 3D
printers and good to hear a positive spin.

surely best used at the moment to make patterns and then use a decent
material for the finished component. Is th elost wax process practial for
DIY?

On 28/09/2015 15:57, DerbyBorn wrote:


surely best used at the moment to make patterns and then use a decent
material for the finished component. Is th elost wax process practial for
DIY?

Aluminium is too difficult to melt on a stove, are there any more
affordable alloys that melt at an easily achievable temperature?

There are some easily fusible allows that could be used directly in a 3D
printer, though most are either toxic or very expensive indeed.

On 28/09/15 17:35, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 15:57, DerbyBorn wrote:


surely best used at the moment to make patterns and then use a decent
material for the finished component. Is th elost wax process practial for
DIY?

Aluminium is too difficult to melt on a stove, are there any more
affordable alloys that melt at an easily achievable temperature?

Solders and woods metal?

There are some easily fusible allows that could be used directly in a 3D
printer, though most are either toxic or very expensive indeed.



--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

On Monday, 28 September 2015 17:35:39 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 15:57, DerbyBorn wrote:

surely best used at the moment to make patterns and then use a decent
material for the finished component. Is th elost wax process practial for
DIY?

Aluminium is too difficult to melt on a stove, are there any more

Yup, you need flower pots and a fan.


NT

On 28/09/2015 17:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 28/09/15 17:35, Fredxxx wrote:
On 28/09/2015 15:57, DerbyBorn wrote:


surely best used at the moment to make patterns and then use a decent
material for the finished component. Is th elost wax process practial
for
DIY?

Aluminium is too difficult to melt on a stove, are there any more
affordable alloys that melt at an easily achievable temperature?

Solders and woods metal?

Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.

I was thinking of some more robust alloy, so long as it melts sub 4-500
degsC.

There are some easily fusible allows that could be used directly in a 3D
printer, though most are either toxic or very expensive indeed.

More appropriate for the Woods metal you mentioned though you wouldn't
see me using that stuff. Cheap but very toxic.

On 28/09/2015 17:48, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.

There's always NaK alloy. The eutectic melts at about -12C, but of
course this is higher for other ratios.

Put some of that in your water pistol.

Cheers
--
Syd

On 28/09/2015 22:50, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 28/09/2015 17:48, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.

There's always NaK alloy. The eutectic melts at about -12C, but of
course this is higher for other ratios.

Put some of that in your water pistol.

Would that be before or after it had been filled with water?

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 14:59:42 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

snip

Thanks for that insight, that was my understanding of current 3D
printers and good to hear a positive spin.

You are welcome.

I believe PLA is one of the easiest plastics to print (low extrusion
temperature (~200DegC) and no need for a temperature controlled
cabinet) and it is pretty strong and whilst flexible when thin, quite
rigid when solid.

My mates Mrs was tasked with pinning down a good starter printer and
in turn asked me for advice (don't know why, I'd not even seen one in
the flesh, let alone built one g). All I could offer was the
following (based on what I'd seen / read on the net and in no
particular order):

The frame should be as rigid as possible.

The design should be open source.

Any kit should be sourced from the UK.

There were a good few out there already.

They should have good reviews.

She came up with the MendelMax 1.5

We did like the Delta printers but thought for our first foray into
the world of 3D printing, a Cartesian printer would be better / safer.

As it turns out the MM has a reasonable print area (l=200, w=200,
h~150 mm) and runs for hours with little in the way of attention.

When first presented with the kit I / we questioned lots of things,
however and in the fullness of time, most of the things we questioned
now make very good sense.

So, the (very) rigid frame means it can be moved without anything
going out of calibration.

Parts and mods can be found all over the net.

Any issues with the original kit (missing parts) were resolved
quickly.

There were plenty of pictures and videos out there to assist us with
the build.

I now have all the electronics for mine (cheap, eBay), the extrusions
for the frame (Misumi Germany), the fastness (local Co), and I'm only
still considering the smooth rods and linear bearings [1]. The .9
degree stepper motors are sitting in my shopping basket.

I'm going to make the actual extruder myself but using some direct
drive parts bought from China (having a lathe helps with such things).

I hope to collect a floor mounted pillar drill soon and that, along
with a printed jig should help me enlarge the (56, two sets) extrusion
holes from 4 to 5mm diameter, ready for tapping to 6mm.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
Yes. I built a MendelMax 1.5 with / for a mate who would only buy one
(in kit form) if I agreed to help build it with him. ;-)

More costly, but we bought an Ultimaker 2. It's a printer, it Just Works.
Take STL file, load into software, set quality dial, save to SD card. Put
SD card into printer, select file, press Print. Thassit. Oh, and wait
somewhere between 10 mins and a couple of hours.

PLA is 30p/m, and usually an inch cube plastic widget comes out at some
fraction of a metre. Changing PLA isn't quite to the level of changing
cartridges in a regular printer (you have to pull out the fibre from the
back of the machine, it helps with feeding/unfeeding but you still have to
poke in into the feed tube), so you don't want to do it after every run but
it doesn't require any special skills.

The thing I liked most is there is zero calibration. It could almost be a
Windows printer - except it doesn't have driver hell like Windows printers
;-)

Theo

On 28 Sep 2015 23:19:45 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Yes. I built a MendelMax 1.5 with / for a mate who would only buy one
(in kit form) if I agreed to help build it with him. ;-)

More costly, but we bought an Ultimaker 2.

Is it also open source OOI? We actually wanted to build something
(open source) so we could then fix it if / when we wanted.

It's a printer, it Just Works.
Take STL file, load into software, set quality dial, save to SD card. Put
SD card into printer, select file, press Print. Thassit. Oh, and wait
somewhere between 10 mins and a couple of hours.

;-)

Or presumably you can also print direct from a PC (if you wanted)?

PLA is 30p/m, and usually an inch cube plastic widget comes out at some
fraction of a metre.

I guess that depends on the density of the print? Ie, if you are
printing 100% (density) and using .3mm nozzle and .3mm layers then
assuming 1" to be 25mm that would be (83 x 25mm / layer, 83 layers?)
more than 1m of filament?

Changing PLA isn't quite to the level of changing
cartridges in a regular printer (you have to pull out the fibre from the
back of the machine, it helps with feeding/unfeeding but you still have to
poke in into the feed tube), so you don't want to do it after every run but
it doesn't require any special skills.

Similar with the MM. It also needs to be done hot.

The thing I liked most is there is zero calibration.

Similar with this MM. The X and Y axis positions are set from the home
end-stop micro switches and are not critical (as long as the print job
ends up on the bed g).

The Z axis is a bit more critical re setup but once set (and it takes
about 5-10 mins to do with nothing more complicated that a strip of
paper as a feeler gauge) seems to be pretty 'hands off'.

Ok, if you change the nozzle and the replacement is slightly longer /
shorter then you may have to re-tweek the Z but we printed a
micrometer mount for that so even that is pretty easy / quick now. ;-)

It could almost be a
Windows printer - except it doesn't have driver hell like Windows printers
;-)

I can't say I've really experienced that myself (over many many years)
but have with the much less common / popular alternatives (OSX /
Linux). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Monday, 28 September 2015 17:48:52 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:


Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.

How about using a microwave :-)

T i m wrote:
On 28 Sep 2015 23:19:45 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Yes. I built a MendelMax 1.5 with / for a mate who would only buy one
(in kit form) if I agreed to help build it with him. ;-)

More costly, but we bought an Ultimaker 2.

Is it also open source OOI? We actually wanted to build something
(open source) so we could then fix it if / when we wanted.

It is, sort of:
https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ul...es#information
They release designs and code but not CAD files.

Having previously had a RepRap that required endless fiddling, we realised
was costing more in time than it saved in money. So we wanted something
that worked out of the box. The files released mean we can repair it or fix
bugs if we have to. Compared with most other equipment the software isn't
terrible, so we haven't needed to go near it.

It's a printer, it Just Works.
Take STL file, load into software, set quality dial, save to SD card. Put
SD card into printer, select file, press Print. Thassit. Oh, and wait
somewhere between 10 mins and a couple of hours.

;-)

Or presumably you can also print direct from a PC (if you wanted)?

You can, but the little ATMega inside doesn't have a lot of RAM so the PC
has to feed it gcode in real time. It's also a USB-serial thingy so not too
quick. Octoprint supports it. It is possible to send gcode to save
downloaded files to the SD to save pulling the card - I haven't tried that.

PLA is 30p/m, and usually an inch cube plastic widget comes out at some
fraction of a metre.

I guess that depends on the density of the print? Ie, if you are
printing 100% (density) and using .3mm nozzle and .3mm layers then
assuming 1" to be 25mm that would be (83 x 25mm / layer, 83 layers?)
more than 1m of filament?

Yes. I imagine it's the same for any printer.

The thing I liked most is there is zero calibration.

Similar with this MM. The X and Y axis positions are set from the home
end-stop micro switches and are not critical (as long as the print job
ends up on the bed g).

The Z axis is a bit more critical re setup but once set (and it takes
about 5-10 mins to do with nothing more complicated that a strip of
paper as a feeler gauge) seems to be pretty 'hands off'.

All this is done in the factory. You do have to level the bed when it comes
out of the box, but there's a step-by-step guide on the LCD.

Ok, if you change the nozzle and the replacement is slightly longer /
shorter then you may have to re-tweek the Z but we printed a
micrometer mount for that so even that is pretty easy / quick now. ;-)

I haven't tried changing the nozzle; they were experimenting with a dual
extruder Ultimaker 2 but it turned out not to be good enough, so they
didn't go into production. Getting the spatial thing right so they didn't
bump into the thing they just printed turned out to be trickier than
expected.

Theo

On 29 Sep 2015 16:34:11 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
wrote:

T i m wrote:
On 28 Sep 2015 23:19:45 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Yes. I built a MendelMax 1.5 with / for a mate who would only buy one
(in kit form) if I agreed to help build it with him. ;-)

More costly, but we bought an Ultimaker 2.

Is it also open source OOI? We actually wanted to build something
(open source) so we could then fix it if / when we wanted.

It is, sort of:
https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ul...es#information
They release designs and code but not CAD files.

Ok. Thanks for that.

Having previously had a RepRap that required endless fiddling, we realised
was costing more in time than it saved in money. So we wanted something
that worked out of the box. The files released mean we can repair it or fix
bugs if we have to. Compared with most other equipment the software isn't
terrible, so we haven't needed to go near it.

Maybe then we were just lucky with the RAMPS / Marlin solution as
since we first set it up we haven't touched it either. ;-)

It's a printer, it Just Works.
Take STL file, load into software, set quality dial, save to SD card. Put
SD card into printer, select file, press Print. Thassit. Oh, and wait
somewhere between 10 mins and a couple of hours.

;-)

Or presumably you can also print direct from a PC (if you wanted)?

You can, but the little ATMega inside doesn't have a lot of RAM so the PC
has to feed it gcode in real time.

Sure.

It's also a USB-serial thingy so not too
quick.

We often print directly to ours using USB and can't say we have had
any real issues?

Octoprint supports it.

I've only played with that, not actually used it in earnest (yet). ;-)

It is possible to send gcode to save
downloaded files to the SD to save pulling the card - I haven't tried that.

You are supposed to be able to do that with Repetier Host but I
haven't figured out how to yet? So that means if we are printing a
long job, we generally stick the gcode on an SD card and print
directly from the RAMPS.

PLA is 30p/m, and usually an inch cube plastic widget comes out at some
fraction of a metre.

I guess that depends on the density of the print? Ie, if you are
printing 100% (density) and using .3mm nozzle and .3mm layers then
assuming 1" to be 25mm that would be (83 x 25mm / layer, 83 layers?)
more than 1m of filament?

Yes. I imagine it's the same for any printer.

The thing I liked most is there is zero calibration.

Similar with this MM. The X and Y axis positions are set from the home
end-stop micro switches and are not critical (as long as the print job
ends up on the bed g).

The Z axis is a bit more critical re setup but once set (and it takes
about 5-10 mins to do with nothing more complicated that a strip of
paper as a feeler gauge) seems to be pretty 'hands off'.

All this is done in the factory. You do have to level the bed when it comes
out of the box, but there's a step-by-step guide on the LCD.

Yes, we do that (with the paper / feeler gauge technique) and in so
doing set the Z home position. Is yours automatic on the Z axis (after
bed level calibration).

Ok, if you change the nozzle and the replacement is slightly longer /
shorter then you may have to re-tweek the Z but we printed a
micrometer mount for that so even that is pretty easy / quick now. ;-)

I haven't tried changing the nozzle; they were experimenting with a dual
extruder Ultimaker 2 but it turned out not to be good enough, so they
didn't go into production.

Mate bought the 'deluxe' kit that came with dual extruders and whilst
both are mounted and wired up, we have not actually tried it with both
as yet. *Personally* I just see it as a liability but have agreed with
my mate that we will try it, if only the once. ;-)

Getting the spatial thing right so they didn't
bump into the thing they just printed turned out to be trickier than
expected.

It still amazes us to see it in action and how it deals with all that
sort of thing. I bow to the folk who did all the programming, all the
movement dynamics and path optimisation etc.

Cheers, T i m

whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 28 September 2015 17:48:52 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:


Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.

How about using a microwave :-)



You lot are wimps, we used to spray cadmium/tin! Then run it
through the furnace. It was then put through the punch presses which
created lot of dust. I do wonder how many birth and other defects we caused?

On 29/09/2015 18:25, Capitol wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 28 September 2015 17:48:52 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:

Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.
How about using a microwave :-)


You lot are wimps, we used to spray cadmium/tin! Then run it
through the furnace. It was then put through the punch presses which
created lot of dust. I do wonder how many birth and other defects we
caused?

I thought the main toxic effects of cadmium were health issues like
cancer, kidney failure and loss of smell?

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 28 September 2015 17:48:52 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:


Yes, but I wouldn't touch Woods metal containing Cadmium. The idea of
melting it on a stove fills me with horror.

How about using a microwave :-)



You lot are wimps, we used to spray cadmium/tin! Then run it
through the furnace. It was then put through the punch presses which
created lot of dust.

Certainly explains your ear to ear dog ****.