On 31/07/15 23:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

8

So which apps do you run on your router/nas/mobile that don't run on
windows anyway?


network address translation Ethernet over ATM, ATM over ADSL,
routing of
thee RIP OSPF or BGP flavours, hardware firewall..need I go on?

So which apps do you run that don't run on windows anyway?

Why should that be of interest?


If the same app runs on windows and linux, that one more reason to run
linux, since windows doesn't actually work.



More lies.
You have the nerve to accuse me of being a liar and you come out with
cr@p like that.
You may as well stop posting as nobody will believe a word you say.


Of course the one app i wouldn't be without is MATE.

Since when has a windows manager been an app? It doesn't do anything
useful.


hahahaha.

That is probably true in the case of Windows.

A window manage is a program. You might as well say that a browser isn't
an app because it doesn't do anything useful.



Then there's cron, syslog, and ysefil stuff like that.

But they run on windows.

not as standard they don't.

And not very well,






--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/2015 22:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'



Which hasn't been true for years.

Is still true today.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/887012

You really tell some porkies don't you?




So you found one that request a reboot and think that counts as "upgrade
of anything" you really are dragging the bottom.

On 31/07/15 23:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 21:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 13:18, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Well exactly.

Stasbility and speed wasn't seen as a primary requirement



Yet they are almost always working and when they aren't its usually the
server that's down (running linux?).

Dennois. You have a problem. You are clutching at any straw to defend
windows the way Harry defends renewable enertgy.
Let me gues: you are a certified lunatic^H^H^H^H^HMicro**** support cl0ne



I only correct your errors and lies.

I see. Its NPD again. projecting all; your qualities onto someone else.
Get some psychiatric help dennis


I use linux more than windows but I use whats best for the job not linux
because its free.
A lot of people can't use your universal solution because linux doesn't
work for everything and you shouldn't keep lying about it doing so.

I never said it did. So that's another lie..It doesn't wash my
snderweae, and it doesn't give me an orgasm.

But apart from that its pretty useful and pretty stable and way more
professional than windows


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 23:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 21:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows



But if you want to be able to use it and buy games and other useful
stuff that works out of the box you buy windows or a mac.
If you are running linux then you have to investigate everything very
carefully to see if it will work with or without having to recompile or
rewrite it.

Dennis. You are 20 years behind the times.

I haven't explicitly complied anything fore at least 10 years to run
Linux.

And even then it was only weird stuff to play with.

I can cope with you liking windows, but not totally utter ignorant
attacks on Linux that simply bear no resemblance to reality




I have listed several things that don't work on linux in this thread,
you haven't offered any solution and wont because they don't work on
linux unless you write something to make them work.

Busybox doesnt work on windows. Mate doesn't work on windows.

So?

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 23:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:35, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a screwed
up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an
install..

Dont use gentoo linux.

Dennis haspicked the most complicated and geeky distro to make you think
all Linux is like that.

I think he is probably a certified Microsoft engineer and is scared of
loosing his job.



He asked for a source copy and gentoo is by far the easiest way to get
it and compile it. You sound like you know very little about linux and I
suggest you try it before opening your mouth.

You know perfectly well he meant 'where do I find or source a copy'.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 23:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'



Which hasn't been true for years.

Is still true today.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/887012

You really tell some porkies don't you?




So you found one that request a reboot and think that counts as "upgrade
of anything" you really are dragging the bottom.

If you upgrade a DLL that is in use by a running program in windows you
need to reboot mor at leats close that program

In Linux, you don't.

End of.

Linux= professioanl multi user multi tasking
Windows = poxy amateur system.

Guess why IBM run code on linux, not on windows, for choice.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:40:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So you are lying again. Busybox implies Linux.

It also runs on FreeBSD. Which has a very different kernel.

OK, OK, they are both UNIX-ish (FreeBSD is a UNIX derivative, and Linux
is a UNIX work-alike).

But you made a sweeping generalisation.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:47:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/07/15 23:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:35, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a
screwed up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an
install..

Dont use gentoo linux.

Dennis haspicked the most complicated and geeky distro to make you
think all Linux is like that.

I think he is probably a certified Microsoft engineer and is scared of
loosing his job.

He asked for a source copy and gentoo is by far the easiest way to get
it and compile it. You sound like you know very little about linux and I
suggest you try it before opening your mouth.

How ironic.

You know perfectly well he meant 'where do I find or source a copy'.

Of course he did.

On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 09:47:58 +0100, David Lang wrote:

On 30/07/2015 09:32, Robin wrote:
David Lang wrote:
Hi

New laptop is already starting to run slowly. Piggin Windows 8.


I wonder if it is (in part at least) a matter of perception.

IIRC you went from a pretty old desktop to the new laptop. So the new
laptop was probably faster at booting up, opening programs, opening
photos. You'd have noticed those changes.

It was noticeably faster at first.

Now you are used to it. So you no longer notice the changes. What you
notice instead is that you are again having to wait while the bloody
thing boots up, opens programs etc.

I get the annoying spinning circle and the hour glass now.

Afaicr, the 'annoying' chase its own tale spinning circle replaces the
hour glass mouse pointer.


If so you could of course buy an even newer, more expensive, better
machine; or only use your laptop when drinking and look upon time it
spends booting up etc as opportunities to bend the elbow of your choice


I'll explore the drinking option :-)

It seems to me that that win8 laptop is infested with malware, PuPs and
adware as well as the more mundane fragmented out of all recognition
pagefile. BTW, if that laptop is fitted with an SSD, *don't* subject it
to routine defragmentation. Otoh, if it's a mere HDD, then defragmentation
may do a little bit of good.

I suggest you download:-

SpyBot S&D from https://www.safer-networking.org/

MalwareBytes free antimalware scanner from https://www.malwarebytes.org/

and visit: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ and download "Combofix.exe"

This site is also a good starting point from which to download other
useful tools and, likewise, the majorgeeks web site, specifically for ATF
Cleaner he http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/atf_cleaner.html

I'd recommend you save a copy of ATF Cleaner and ComboFix to the
desktop, run ATF cleaner first, then disable your AV's active protection
before launching ComboFix which will scan for and remove malware and
trojans your AV program (and the other 54 varieties of AV software) seem
so blissfully unaware of.

After that install SpyBot S&D (unchecking the uselsss Teatimer option),
update its database and make sure to apply the passive immunization
against bad web sites which attempt to hit you with a "Drive by Download"
exploit. You can also install Malwarebytes free antimalware on-demand
scanner, taking care to uncheck the 'install googlechrome' option (same
advice applies with Avast's free AV installer).

Don't be *too* surprised at what unwanted malware, trojans and adware is
discovered lurking in the system, just be grateful you were able to
winkle most, if not all, of it out. If you're now feeling paranoid about
the presence of such a huge parasitic load on the laptop, you can also
run other on-demand scanners such as AdwCleaner, Junkware Removal Tool,
RKill (and, RogueKiller) and TDSSKiller to name the few I'm familiar with
(all of which can be downloaded via the bleepingcomputer.org downloads
pages).

Quite often, the only way to be sure of a clean install of windows is to
make backup copies of all your important data onto a removable disk
(photos, home movies, documents, emails (and address books), bookmarked
pages from your favourite web browser(s) and any other crap deemed to be
of vital importance before wiping the windows install to either use the
recovery/rescue media you created or a proper OEM install DVD of the
relevant version of windows (a process referred to as "Nuke and Pave").

Sometimes the quickest way to clear all the malware off of a badly
infected system is to simply Nuke and Pave over the old rather than run
dozens of different antimalware and AV scanners. Either option is going
to be a pain whichever you choose but the obvious starting point is to
try and detect and remove the malware before considering the Nuke & Pave
option.


--
Johnny B Good

On 7/31/2015 1:01 PM, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 31/7/2015 10:24, fred wrote:

Sweet J****s. Microsoft bashing. So predictable, so boring. This all

Indeed... its almost laughable how many times this thread repeats
itself, with the fanboys failing to understand that *they* are
frequently one of the reasons their pet technology it not currently
ruling the roost. All that technical nouse, and yet they can't answer
a simple question, but instead decide that berating the asker for not
doing it their favoured way.

Course I can't answer a "simple" Q about Windows. I have no intention
of *ever* being able to do so, either. At least, not someone else's
question, at ant rate.

That's what I love about this group - everyone so helpful ;-)

If it is not pre-loaded on your new hardware then its not relevant -
game over.

It's certainly never been preloaded on any machine I've ever bought.

Google have demonstrated how you get a non MS OS in to the hands of jo
public with Android, an Apple with IOS.

And, in Apple's case, with OS X. They sell about 15 million Macs a
year, which is not peanuts.

Or a couple of months worth of windows PC sales... not peanuts, but not
big news either. IOS however does much bigger numbers.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 7/31/2015 4:57 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 16:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , bert
wrote:


I feel the same way about Linux. In global terms its such a minority
interest. If it was so wonderful it would be cock of the walk by this
time so why would a neophyte wish to get involved with an operating
system with such a small user base.

It's all down to applications. Most of the world uses MS Office and
has a lot of investment in documents. They didn't got o Office because
it was the best product but because everyone else did.

So I use a Mac and use Office for the Mac. So your point was *what*,
precisely?

His point is that ubiquity equates to quality.

That is not what he said. He said that most technology buyers will
follow the lowest cost path of least resistance that maintains
compatibility with their existing investment in content and training.

Even Microsoft itself has problems reading microsoft office generated
files as anyone with any real experience knows.

Indeed it does. That does not mean that all of a sudden LO or OO can run
the macros in an excel worksheet though does it?

Unless you have the same version and the same fonts installed, what you
get may be anything from a blank refusal to open the bloody thing to a
crazy unformatted mess.

Which is why despite Adobe's software being a bug ridden disaster and
postcript being probably the worst ever page description language it is
possible to write

Being quite familiar with PS I would of course dispute that. Having said
that there is not much competition. PCL is hardly worthy of comparison
since its so wedded to device space.

, a PDF with embedded fonts is now the de facto
document exchange format.

Indeed, for pre-press work this is true, but not for general office
document transfer alas.

Not MS word....

That doesn't make PDFs great - they are not - they are crap - but it is
a standard that MS office is simply not.

The point is simple: even if you DO use MS word on MSwindows you are
STILL screwed in document interchangeability.

If you are moving docs between the last three versions of MS office its
a non issue in real terms. I can't recall the last time a customer has
asked me how to load or convert a MS doc format.

As far as Excel etc goes, anyone who uses a spreadsheet rather than code
against a database for anything more complex than a marketing document
is probably a tosser anyway.

With statements like that...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 7/31/2015 1:18 PM, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Most of the US Navy still runs NT4 ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 7/31/2015 9:57 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 13:18, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Well exactly.

Stasbility and speed wasn't seen as a primary requirement



Yet they are almost always working and when they aren't its usually the
server that's down (running linux?).

Dennois. You have a problem. You are clutching at any straw to defend
windows the way Harry defends renewable enertgy.
Let me gues: you are a certified lunatic^H^H^H^H^HMicro**** support cl0ne

No, we are just shining the light of the real world under the dusty
bridge inhabited by the linux trolls.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Richard" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

On 31/07/15 16:12, Richard wrote:

well there's nowt so deaf as those that stick their fingers in their
ears and yell 'windows is great, windows is good'

Provide a quote from me where I say that.

Just about every post you have made has been essentially that.

That's totally untrue. Nowhere have I said 'windows is great, windows is
good' or anything remotely resembling that.
My particular needs are met using Windows. I have invested significantly
in software over the years and, yes, Linux does have some good software.
It does not have the complete answer to all my needs whereas Windows does.
Am I a lesser person for that?


Noth8ng is easier than finding something that one system does OK, and
another doesn't do.

Liker the MAC man who came and saiod ' pity linux cant read Canon raw
format files off my camera' Of course installing a plugin that did read
them was the work of 5 minutes...

If it makes you feel any better, have it your way.
Just out of curiosity; is it Linux which does all your typos, or just your
own low standards?


That happens because he is always completely blotto.

Same with drunken Dave.

On 01/08/15 01:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 7/31/2015 9:57 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 13:18, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Well exactly.

Stasbility and speed wasn't seen as a primary requirement



Yet they are almost always working and when they aren't its usually the
server that's down (running linux?).

Dennois. You have a problem. You are clutching at any straw to defend
windows the way Harry defends renewable enertgy.
Let me gues: you are a certified lunatic^H^H^H^H^HMicro**** support cl0ne

No, we are just shining the light of the real world under the dusty
bridge inhabited by the linux trolls.


and instead you found microsoft trolls shivering in fear of their lives.






--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:08:27 +0100, michael adams wrote:

There was GUI for PC's which predated GEM by 2 years called
VisiON which was launched in 1983. VisiOn was a commercial
failure as a result of high system requirements, much higher
than were common at the time.

Where does IBM's Presentation Manager running on OS/2 fit into that
timeline? By far the most useable GUI that I have played with,
actually still use it and OS/2 in preferance to any Windows, Linux or
Mac GUI/OS.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:08:27 +0100, michael adams wrote:

There was GUI for PC's which predated GEM by 2 years called
VisiON which was launched in 1983. VisiOn was a commercial
failure as a result of high system requirements, much higher
than were common at the time.

Where does IBM's Presentation Manager running on OS/2 fit into that
timeline? By far the most useable GUI that I have played with,
actually still use it and OS/2 in preferance to any Windows, Linux or
Mac GUI/OS.

Apparently in 1988 and based on Windows code. Co-developed
by both IBM and M$ and allegedly a cause of their big
falling out. IBM having finally realised that already
having given PC-DOS back to Gates to sell as he pleased
as MSDos they'd also been financing his developement of
Windows. Again to sell to the same clone makers/owners
who were already running on MsDos.


michael adams

....

On 31/07/2015 23:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 23:19, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:59, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and almost everything that runs on an ARM runs a linux or
derivcative [sic]
thereof

Only the big systems. A lot of the little ones have something smaller.


depends how small you are going. Slab/phone/router that's linux. Or a
derivative thereof (busybox/android etc).



What does busybox have to do with linux?
Its a piece of open source software that runs as a shell with some built
in commands not an OS.

But it is the user interface to linux. Not any OS.

Rubbish.


"BusyBox has been written with size-optimization and limited resources
in mind. It is also extremely modular so you can easily include or
exclude commands (or features) at compile time. This makes it easy to
customize your embedded systems. To create a working system, just add
some device nodes in /dev, a few configuration files in /etc, and a
*Linux kernel*."

http://www.busybox.net/about.html

So you are lying again. Busybox implies Linux.


More of your lies
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/download/...-1232-3329972/

You really don't know much about open source software do you?
I doubt if anyone actually thinks you know anything about open source or
windows by now and I doubt if you know anything about linux.

You need to understand linux is a kernel it is not an OS and virtually
anything that runs on it can run on another OS if you want it to. Its
fundamental to open source that its not limited to linux if its written
correctly and as the source is available even the incorrectly written
stuff can be fixed if its worth the effort.

On 31/07/2015 23:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 23:23, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

8

So which apps do you run on your router/nas/mobile that don't run on
windows anyway?


network address translation Ethernet over ATM, ATM over ADSL,
routing of
thee RIP OSPF or BGP flavours, hardware firewall..need I go on?

So which apps do you run that don't run on windows anyway?

Why should that be of interest?


If the same app runs on windows and linux, that one more reason to run
linux, since windows doesn't actually work.



More lies.
You have the nerve to accuse me of being a liar and you come out with
cr@p like that.
You may as well stop posting as nobody will believe a word you say.


Of course the one app i wouldn't be without is MATE.

Since when has a windows manager been an app? It doesn't do anything
useful.


hahahaha.

That is probably true in the case of Windows.

A window manage is a program. You might as well say that a browser isn't
an app because it doesn't do anything useful.



Then there's cron, syslog, and ysefil stuff like that.

But they run on windows.

not as standard they don't.

And not very well,

They aren't needed as standard and do the same job on windows as on unix
so it makes your very well a stupid statement as they obviously don't do
it very well on unix as they do the same. I think you may find unix
users disagree with you there.

On 31/07/2015 23:28, J.B.Treadstone wrote:

But Windows does _not_ have a monopoly on malware.

Although Linux is inherently more secure than Windows, Linux programs can
have security holes too. These are usually fixed promptly, so keep the
system up to date. The four steps of blocking at the router, disabling
unnecessary services, running a firewall and keeping your software updated
will mean you can safely use the Internet with confidence.


I think the issues with SH keys and heartbleed have put paid to the myth
that security risks in linux are fixed quickly. At least one of them was
a bug that was reintroduced into Ubuntu and lived there alive and well
for nearly a year after it had been found, patched and reintroduced
leaving the machines open to a known exploit.

You need to be aware that you are not invulnerable and need to be just
as careful as anyone else.

On 31/07/2015 23:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 23:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 21:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows



But if you want to be able to use it and buy games and other useful
stuff that works out of the box you buy windows or a mac.
If you are running linux then you have to investigate everything very
carefully to see if it will work with or without having to recompile or
rewrite it.

Dennis. You are 20 years behind the times.

I haven't explicitly complied anything fore at least 10 years to run
Linux.

And even then it was only weird stuff to play with.

I can cope with you liking windows, but not totally utter ignorant
attacks on Linux that simply bear no resemblance to reality




I have listed several things that don't work on linux in this thread,
you haven't offered any solution and wont because they don't work on
linux unless you write something to make them work.

Busybox doesnt work on windows. Mate doesn't work on windows.

If they don't work on windows its because nobody wants them to..

busybox does,
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/download/...-1232-3329972/

nobody wants mate (on windows) afaik.


So?


So?

On 01/08/15 09:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:08:27 +0100, michael adams wrote:

There was GUI for PC's which predated GEM by 2 years called
VisiON which was launched in 1983. VisiOn was a commercial
failure as a result of high system requirements, much higher
than were common at the time.

Where does IBM's Presentation Manager running on OS/2 fit into that
timeline? By far the most useable GUI that I have played with,
actually still use it and OS/2 in preferance to any Windows, Linux or
Mac GUI/OS.

Indeed. And the have been a few attempts to replicate its niceness with
some linux desktop managers IIRC.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 01/08/15 10:10, dennis@home wrote:


nobody wants mate (on windows) afaik.

Rather the reverse, no one on mate wants windows.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/2015 23:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 23:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in
windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'



Which hasn't been true for years.

Is still true today.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/887012

You really tell some porkies don't you?




So you found one that request a reboot and think that counts as "upgrade
of anything" you really are dragging the bottom.

If you upgrade a DLL that is in use by a running program in windows you
need to reboot mor at leats close that program

In Linux, you don't.

So now you are claiming linux replaces running libraries on the fly
without terminating the program using it?

That's stupid..

if you don't terminate the process it will continue to use the old
library complete with whatever exploit the fix was for until the machine
crashes or is rebooted.

What else don't you understand about linux?



End of.

Linux= professioanl multi user multi tasking
Windows = poxy amateur system.

Guess why IBM run code on linux, not on windows, for choice.

License fees.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:08:27 +0100, michael adams wrote:

There was GUI for PC's which predated GEM by 2 years called
VisiON which was launched in 1983. VisiOn was a commercial
failure as a result of high system requirements, much higher
than were common at the time.

Where does IBM's Presentation Manager running on OS/2 fit into that
timeline?

Much later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_Manager

By far the most useable GUI that I have played with, actually still use
it and OS/2 in preferance to any Windows, Linux or Mac GUI/OS.

You'd be one of a tiny handful that do.

On Sat, 01 Aug 2015 01:42:56 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 7/31/2015 1:18 PM, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Most of the US Navy still runs NT4 ;-)

And, who can blame them? Mind you, I'm surprised they didn't make the NT
version limit NT5.0 (aka windows 2000 professional). Perhaps they did but
didn't bother upgrading every machine from NT4.

--
Johnny B Good

In article m,
lid writes
On 31/07/2015 13:16, bert wrote:

The big plus about UNIX (where every command looks like a mis-type) is
that the operating system is essentially invisible to the end user. Well
it was designed by a telephone company.

That's true of windows and other OSes.
You can run applications and never see the OS if you want to.
An example is a cash machine, you don't see the windows or other OS
unless there is a fault.
How long can you run a Windows system without coming up against the
operating system? It's better than it was with W8 but at the time Unix
came out it was unavoidable. We had an early unix server in the office.
It just sat in the corner and ran - just like the pabx.
--
bert

In article , J.B.Treadstone
writes
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:47:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/07/15 23:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:35, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a
screwed up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an
install..

Dont use gentoo linux.

Dennis haspicked the most complicated and geeky distro to make you
think all Linux is like that.

I think he is probably a certified Microsoft engineer and is scared of
loosing his job.

He asked for a source copy and gentoo is by far the easiest way to get
it and compile it. You sound like you know very little about linux and I
suggest you try it before opening your mouth.

How ironic.

You know perfectly well he meant 'where do I find or source a copy'.

Of course he did.

Indeed I did - sorry for the ambiguity. I'm downloading 32 bit Mate as I
sit here typing on my W7 machine.
--
bert

"bert" wrote in message
news
In article m,
lid writes
On 31/07/2015 13:16, bert wrote:

The big plus about UNIX (where every command looks like a mis-type) is
that the operating system is essentially invisible to the end user. Well
it was designed by a telephone company.

That's true of windows and other OSes.
You can run applications and never see the OS if you want to.
An example is a cash machine, you don't see the windows or other OS unless
there is a fault.

How long can you run a Windows system without coming up against the
operating system?

Depends on what you want to do with it.

It's better than it was with W8 but at the time Unix came out it was
unavoidable. We had an early unix server in the office. It just sat in the
corner and ran - just like the pabx.

And later than that with a Win system you could just plug your
memory stick into the Win system and have it visible auto and
wouldn't have been able to do that with the Unix system.

On 01/08/2015 22:32, bert wrote:
In article m,
lid writes
On 31/07/2015 13:16, bert wrote:

The big plus about UNIX (where every command looks like a mis-type) is
that the operating system is essentially invisible to the end user. Well
it was designed by a telephone company.

That's true of windows and other OSes.
You can run applications and never see the OS if you want to.
An example is a cash machine, you don't see the windows or other OS
unless there is a fault.
How long can you run a Windows system without coming up against the
operating system? It's better than it was with W8 but at the time Unix
came out it was unavoidable. We had an early unix server in the office.
It just sat in the corner and ran - just like the pabx.

Well that depends on what its doing..
it could be days, it could be months, it may be never.

Of course you can never come up against a linux OS as they don't exist.
Linux is a kernel and people don't interact with the kernel, ever.

In article , bert
writes
In article , J.B.Treadstone
writes
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:47:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/07/15 23:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:35, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a
screwed up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an
install..

Dont use gentoo linux.

Dennis haspicked the most complicated and geeky distro to make you
think all Linux is like that.

I think he is probably a certified Microsoft engineer and is scared of
loosing his job.

He asked for a source copy and gentoo is by far the easiest way to get
it and compile it. You sound like you know very little about linux and I
suggest you try it before opening your mouth.

How ironic.

You know perfectly well he meant 'where do I find or source a copy'.

Of course he did.

Indeed I did - sorry for the ambiguity. I'm downloading 32 bit Mate as
I sit here typing on my W7 machine.
First problem. The laptop doesn't have internal wi-fi so I was using a
D-link notebook adapter DFWA-645. No drivers for linux s far as I can
see.
--
bert

On 7/31/2015 10:06 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:30, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:32, Davey wrote:

How about the camera software for controlling my IP cameras?


You bought a camera that needs windows software to control it?

How 20th century..:-).

A depressing number of IP cameras *require* IE and Active X controls to
perform the setup and config of some of their functions. (once setup,
reading data from them is usually platform agnostic)


How about the software for managing my auto feed scanner and replacement
for PaperPort 14 pro?

Golly - the killer app of tje 20th century. PaperPort Pro!

Has anyone even heard of it?

Notice how he side stepped that one? ;-)


Then there is the simple camera software that downloads and
automatically corrects the compact camera images.
prettyu standard.


But most of us by camereas that do that already or dont need it done.

See, your fault!

Maybe but they are just a tiny subset of software that many people need
to use. I see a significant problem.

So do I - you have bought a load of crap that depends- or has made you
think it depends - in windows, to operate.

Yup your fault again.

I am afraid that in your case Dennis, installing Linux will not make you
suddenly not a total sucker and a complete plonker. You are one of thw
very few people who should stay with windows until they prise it out of
your cold dead hands.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 8/1/2015 7:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/15 01:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 7/31/2015 9:57 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 13:18, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

Depends on the type of server - when it comes to the web, there is not
actually much between windows and linux at the moment - probably 10% in it.

Yet they are almost always working and when they aren't its usually the
server that's down (running linux?).

Dennois. You have a problem. You are clutching at any straw to defend
windows the way Harry defends renewable enertgy.
Let me gues: you are a certified lunatic^H^H^H^H^HMicro**** support
cl0ne

No, we are just shining the light of the real world under the dusty
bridge inhabited by the linux trolls.


and instead you found microsoft trolls shivering in fear of their lives.

Personally I don't care for any type of troll. I am content to use
Linux, Windows, VMS, and any number of other OSes. Each have strengths
and weaknesses, it just takes a bit of common sense to step back and
look at the bigger picture to work out what fits the circumstances.

To argue one is always better than the other is childish. (rather like
dribble arguing that combis are always better, and other prats arguing
that stored DHW is always better)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/08/15 04:51, John Rumm wrote:

A depressing number of IP cameras *require* IE and Active X controls to
perform the setup and config of some of their functions. (once setup,
reading data from them is usually platform agnostic)

I find Pipelight helps

http://pipelight.net/cms/installation.html

--
Adrian C

In article , Robin
scribeth thus
tony sayer wrote:
snip And printing/PDFs with a watermark would be a bit of a pain.

Use cute PDF and there are others that work fine and are free...

It's not just a waternark in WPS's PDFs. It's in all prints. This is
possibly new since you used it - introduced since WPS took over from
Kingsoft.

Right, I have the earlier version...

The business edition which does have VBA/Macro support looks cheap at
GBP61.45 compared to MS Office at first blush. But ISTM even the
business edition WPS is word processor, spreadsheet and presentation
only.

Well isn't that all you need?. Use TB for the mail ..

Does TB now support VBA macros? I don't use/support many for Outlook
but at my time of life it'd be a pain to have to rewrite them.

Dunno either, but for mail & news I use Turnpike ver 5.02 ancient I know
but it works and does just what I need.


So that looks to be equivalent to MS Office Home & Student which
can be had for c.GBP70. At times in the past for a good deal with a
.ac.uk address - such as can be had relatively cheaply by signing up
to U3A

Perhaps not everyone can do that. Anyway try it and see how you get on
its free ...

But it's *not* free with support for VBA macros.............?


Well if thats the case then you'll have to get something else then!...
--
Tony Sayer

On 02/08/2015 04:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 7/31/2015 10:06 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:30, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:32, Davey wrote:

How about the camera software for controlling my IP cameras?


You bought a camera that needs windows software to control it?

How 20th century..:-).

A depressing number of IP cameras *require* IE and Active X controls to
perform the setup and config of some of their functions. (once setup,
reading data from them is usually platform agnostic)


How about the software for managing my auto feed scanner and replacement
for PaperPort 14 pro?

Golly - the killer app of tje 20th century. PaperPort Pro!

Has anyone even heard of it?

Notice how he side stepped that one? ;-)


Then there is the simple camera software that downloads and
automatically corrects the compact camera images.
prettyu standard.


But most of us by camereas that do that already or dont need it done.

See, your fault!

Maybe but they are just a tiny subset of software that many people need
to use. I see a significant problem.

So do I - you have bought a load of crap that depends- or has made you
think it depends - in windows, to operate.

Yup your fault again.

Its normally your fault for anyone that has a problem with linux either
through not having linux compatible hardware or not knowing what
software does a poor imitation of what you actually want. After all its
open source so anyone can write a bit of code to do anything.

TNP is just a standard "linux does what I want so it must be right for
you" dumbed down linux user.

On 01/08/15 22:55, JHY wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
news
In article m,
lid writes
On 31/07/2015 13:16, bert wrote:

The big plus about UNIX (where every command looks like a mis-type) is
that the operating system is essentially invisible to the end user.
Well
it was designed by a telephone company.

That's true of windows and other OSes.
You can run applications and never see the OS if you want to.
An example is a cash machine, you don't see the windows or other OS
unless there is a fault.

How long can you run a Windows system without coming up against the
operating system?

Depends on what you want to do with it.

It's better than it was with W8 but at the time Unix came out it was
unavoidable. We had an early unix server in the office. It just sat in
the corner and ran - just like the pabx.

And later than that with a Win system you could just plug your
memory stick into the Win system and have it visible auto and
wouldn't have been able to do that with the Unix system.

straw man. Unix systems were at that time built for a different purpose.
wouldnt have been able to plug a 64 port serial card into your windows
machine and have it just work, either.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 01/08/15 23:18, bert wrote:
D-link notebook adapter DFWA-645

you need the ath9k driver

It should be part of the default installation.

It is on my system and I have never been near and atheros chipped wifi card!

is the system working, but the card not recognised?


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 02/08/2015 11:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/15 22:55, JHY wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
news
In article m,
lid writes
On 31/07/2015 13:16, bert wrote:

The big plus about UNIX (where every command looks like a mis-type) is
that the operating system is essentially invisible to the end user.
Well
it was designed by a telephone company.

That's true of windows and other OSes.
You can run applications and never see the OS if you want to.
An example is a cash machine, you don't see the windows or other OS
unless there is a fault.

How long can you run a Windows system without coming up against the
operating system?

Depends on what you want to do with it.

It's better than it was with W8 but at the time Unix came out it was
unavoidable. We had an early unix server in the office. It just sat in
the corner and ran - just like the pabx.

And later than that with a Win system you could just plug your
memory stick into the Win system and have it visible auto and
wouldn't have been able to do that with the Unix system.

straw man. Unix systems were at that time built for a different purpose.
wouldnt have been able to plug a 64 port serial card into your windows
machine and have it just work, either.



True, you would have had to put the driver disk in for something like
that but they did work. Mind you I only ever put a 16 port card in a
windows box and I don't know if you could get a 64 port card at the
time. Made by brainboxes or something similar IIRC but it was much more
than a decade ago.

You could get a linux driver for them, I used to sit near the bloke that
wrote and maintained it so getting bugs fixed was easy.

On 8/1/2015 9:58 AM, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 23:28, J.B.Treadstone wrote:

But Windows does _not_ have a monopoly on malware.

Although Linux is inherently more secure than Windows, Linux programs can
have security holes too. These are usually fixed promptly, so keep the
system up to date. The four steps of blocking at the router, disabling
unnecessary services, running a firewall and keeping your software
updated
will mean you can safely use the Internet with confidence.


I think the issues with SH keys and heartbleed have put paid to the myth
that security risks in linux are fixed quickly. At least one of them was
a bug that was reintroduced into Ubuntu and lived there alive and well
for nearly a year after it had been found, patched and reintroduced
leaving the machines open to a known exploit.

One of the biggest linux security problems arise due to its widespread
use "embedded" in commodity hardware. Vast numbers of routers and other
infrastructure devices have well known security holes, but there is no
automated mechanism to patch them, and little support from the
manufacturers to support old kit either. This will become an ever
growing problem as the "internet of things" grows.

You need to be aware that you are not invulnerable and need to be just
as careful as anyone else.

You only need look at the results of the pwn2own style hacking
competitions to realise that linux, IOS, android, OSX and other boxes
are routinely compromised along with the windows ones.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/