On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a screwed
up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an install..

On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'



Which hasn't been true for years.

On 31/07/2015 15:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


well there's nowt so deaf as those that stick their fingers in their
ears and yell 'windows is great, windows is good'


Nobody has said that in this thread, some have said linux is great
without pointing out the obvious problems it has.

On 31/07/2015 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If it makes you feel any better, have it your way.
Just out of curiosity; is it Linux which does all your typos, or just
your own low standards?

Its my worn out keyboard, failing eyesight and complete contempt for
your posts.




Do I take it you don't know how to install a spiel chucker on linux?

On 31/07/2015 13:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

8

So which apps do you run on your router/nas/mobile that don't run on
windows anyway?


network address translation Ethernet over ATM, ATM over ADSL, routing of
thee RIP OSPF or BGP flavours, hardware firewall..need I go on?

So which apps do you run that don't run on windows anyway?

On 31/07/15 20:34, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 16:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 16:47, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , bert
wrote:


I feel the same way about Linux. In global terms its such a minority
interest. If it was so wonderful it would be cock of the walk by this
time so why would a neophyte wish to get involved with an operating
system with such a small user base.

It's all down to applications. Most of the world uses MS Office and
has a lot of investment in documents. They didn't got o Office because
it was the best product but because everyone else did.

So I use a Mac and use Office for the Mac. So your point was *what*,
precisely?

His point is that ubiquity equates to quality.

Of course it doesn't. Its classic FUD as in 'no one ever got sacked for
buying IBM'

Even Microsoft itself has problems reading microsoft office generated
files as anyone with any real experience knows.

Unless you have the same version and the same fonts installed, what you
get may be anything from a blank refusal to open the bloody thing to a
crazy unformatted mess.

Exactly the same as open office then.


Which is why despite Adobe's software being a bug ridden disaster and
postcript being probably the worst ever page description language it is
possible to write, a PDF with embedded fonts is now the de facto
document exchange format.

That's because PDFs are cross platform, which office wasn't.
It is now so using word formats are not a problem any more, you can even
read them on linux if you want to. M$ provide software to read word
documents for free on windows and mac and you can even use them on linux.

Its probably better to use word format rather than PDFs for many things
but I just use whatever I feel like and word will do PDFs with ease.

BTW it looks like M$ are the only major vendor offering tools to build
apps that run on all the main platforms and they are free.

other people who aren't vendors offer them for free too.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 30/07/2015 23:18, J.B.Treadstone wrote:
Anyway it seems immaterial whatever Linux distro is offered, the windows
crowd seem quite happy to have to put up with AV & malware apps etc. to
run their computers. Something we don't have to worry about, unless you
have windows computers on your network.

I can't believe that post Heartbleed you're still peddling that rubbish.

There's a hell of a lot _more_ malware for Windows, and there are a hell
of a lot of Windows users who don't know what they are doing, and since
they own most of the computers so they are the biggest target.

But Windows does _not_ have a monopoly on malware.

Andy

On 31/07/15 20:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows



But if you want to be able to use it and buy games and other useful
stuff that works out of the box you buy windows or a mac.
If you are running linux then you have to investigate everything very
carefully to see if it will work with or without having to recompile or
rewrite it.

Dennis. You are 20 years behind the times.

I haven't explicitly complied anything fore at least 10 years to run Linux.

And even then it was only weird stuff to play with.

I can cope with you liking windows, but not totally utter ignorant
attacks on Linux that simply bear no resemblance to reality



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 20:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 13:18, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Well exactly.

Stasbility and speed wasn't seen as a primary requirement



Yet they are almost always working and when they aren't its usually the
server that's down (running linux?).

Dennois. You have a problem. You are clutching at any straw to defend
windows the way Harry defends renewable enertgy.
Let me gues: you are a certified lunatic^H^H^H^H^HMicro**** support cl0ne


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/2015 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and almost everything that runs on an ARM runs a linux or derivcative [sic]
thereof

Only the big systems. A lot of the little ones have something smaller.

Andy

On 31/07/15 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Sounds like a simply way to lose all your documents, photos, and other
information. Then find you are no longer connected to your email,
newsgroups and don't recognise half your software.


same for a reinstall of windows.



Not so.
You can do a repair install and it will keep all the documents and
stuff. you can also upgrade to a new version and it will keep the user
stuff.

BTW windows won't automatically delete a linux install but linux will
delete a windows install, without asking the last time I tried.

Complete lie.

Windows will ALWAYS delete a Linux install but Linux never deletes a
windows install without asking.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:30, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:32, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 11:05:45 +0100
John Rumm wrote:

I can only refer you to the suggestion offered by The Natural
Philosopher:
"Insert DVD, follow instructions."

"Simples", as they say.

Sounds like a simply way to lose all your documents, photos, and
other information. Then find you are no longer connected to your
email, newsgroups and don't recognise half your software.

We are talking about installing a different operating system, so I fail
to understand what you mean by that. Any sensible operator has any
important files backed up already, and why would installing Linux fail
to connect you to the internet?
Of course half the software would not be recognised, but any new
software required is free, in both senses.

Really?
Can you point me to where I can get a free linux RailMaster from?
Will it work with an eLink controller?

How about the camera software for controlling my IP cameras?


You bought a camera that needs windows software to control it?

How 20th century..:-).

How about the software for managing my auto feed scanner and replacement
for PaperPort 14 pro?

Golly - the killer app of tje 20th century. PaperPort Pro!

Has anyone even heard of it?

Then there is the simple camera software that downloads and
automatically corrects the compact camera images.
prettyu standard.


But most of us by camereas that do that already or dont need it done.



Then there is the software that allows you to control my Olympus DSLR
over USB and the similar one for the Lumix compact which includes live
view over IP.


No probes doing that on linux here for my nikon.


...

Firefox and Thunderbird, the
Mozilla programmes, are the same on either platform and will transfer
directly, importing your old profiles, and LibreOffice understands Word
and Excel and other Windows files. I see no problem.


Maybe but they are just a tiny subset of software that many people need
to use. I see a significant problem.

So do I - you have bought a load of crap that depends- or has made you
think it depends - in windows, to operate.

I am afraid that in your case Dennis, installing Linux will not make you
suddenly not a total sucker and a complete plonker. You are one of thw
very few people who should stay with windows until they prise it out of
your cold dead hands.




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:35, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a screwed
up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an install..

Dont use gentoo linux.

Dennis haspicked the most complicated and geeky distro to make you think
all Linux is like that.

I think he is probably a certified Microsoft engineer and is scared of
loosing his job.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'



Which hasn't been true for years.

Is still true today.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/887012

You really tell some porkies don't you?



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 15:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


well there's nowt so deaf as those that stick their fingers in their
ears and yell 'windows is great, windows is good'


Nobody has said that in this thread, some have said linux is great
without pointing out the obvious problems it has.

Well you have been busy denying tje problems that Windows has and
stating all sorts of problems that Linux doesn't have.

Why you feel the need to lie so blatant5ly is rather puzzling - do you
actually care?


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If it makes you feel any better, have it your way.
Just out of curiosity; is it Linux which does all your typos, or just
your own low standards?

Its my worn out keyboard, failing eyesight and complete contempt for
your posts.




Do I take it you don't know how to install a spiel chucker on linux?

I have never had to. It comes as standard the moment you specify which
language you want to have as standard.

The amount you simply don't know about Linux is only exceeded by the
amount to simply don't know about windows.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

8

So which apps do you run on your router/nas/mobile that don't run on
windows anyway?


network address translation Ethernet over ATM, ATM over ADSL, routing of
thee RIP OSPF or BGP flavours, hardware firewall..need I go on?

So which apps do you run that don't run on windows anyway?

Why should that be of interest?


If the same app runs on windows and linux, that one more reason to run
linux, since windows doesn't actually work.



Of course the one app i wouldn't be without is MATE.

Then there's cron, syslog, and ysefil stuff like that.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 21:59, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and almost everything that runs on an ARM runs a linux or
derivcative [sic]
thereof

Only the big systems. A lot of the little ones have something smaller.


depends how small you are going. Slab/phone/router that's linux. Or a
derivative thereof (busybox/android etc).



If you are going so small you can't run Linux, you probably aren't using
an ARM chip anyway - more like PIC or Atmel
Andy


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , michael adams
wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...

Course at the simplest level, user incompetence doesn't help. Like
people who use the computer as a ****ing typewriter (thinks: hmmm.
Where have I heard that before? Recently, too).

Oh dear, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy.

From your remark there I can only conclude that you've never done
any "serious" programming then ? Or as it's called "coding" nowadays
I believe.

"Serious" as meaning anything more advanced than copying
listings out of the back of "My Sinclair" magazines at least.

So you've never experiences that joy that comes with the realisation
that compilers simply don't care how many blank lines you leave.
between routines ? Between subroutines, even between imdividual
lines if you wish ? And the same goes for HTML interpreters
too. You can leave as many blank lines as you like there, as well.

yawn


I'm talking about Word document, dope, not text files. Do keep
up.

No mention of any Word document here, Timmy -

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .

There is also no need, as I've pointed out before, to press the return
key a number of times after typing your signature. You're using a
computer, not a ****ing typewriter.

As far as I can see anyway.

Or maybe you can't remember that far back.

As admittedly, you did seem quite upset at the time.

Oh, but you just did remember - it's at the top of this post

" Like people who use the computer as a ****ing typewriter (thinks: hmmm.
Where have I heard that before? Recently, too)."

Let's just hope this doesn't make you even more upset, eh ?



michael adams

....

In article , Vir
Campestris wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and almost everything that runs on an ARM runs a linux or derivcative
[sic] thereof

Only the big systems. A lot of the little ones have something smaller.

Like RISC OS?

On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'

A reboot isn't needed every time.

--
F

www.vulcantothesky.org - 2015, the last year to see a Vulcan fly

On 31/07/15 22:28, michael adams wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , michael adams
wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .

Course at the simplest level, user incompetence doesn't help. Like
people who use the computer as a ****ing typewriter (thinks: hmmm.
Where have I heard that before? Recently, too).

Oh dear, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy.

From your remark there I can only conclude that you've never done
any "serious" programming then ? Or as it's called "coding" nowadays
I believe.

"Serious" as meaning anything more advanced than copying
listings out of the back of "My Sinclair" magazines at least.

So you've never experiences that joy that comes with the realisation
that compilers simply don't care how many blank lines you leave.
between routines ? Between subroutines, even between imdividual
lines if you wish ? And the same goes for HTML interpreters
too. You can leave as many blank lines as you like there, as well.

yawn


I'm talking about Word document, dope, not text files. Do keep
up.

No mention of any Word document here, Timmy -

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .

There is also no need, as I've pointed out before, to press the return
key a number of times after typing your signature. You're using a
computer, not a ****ing typewriter.

As far as I can see anyway.


well since that sub thread was all about MS oddice and word processors
that mnerely conforms your utter idiocy.

You don't insert a new page element inro a (plain) text file. Well I
might, but you certainly wouldn't. You need linux to so that.




Or maybe you can't remember that far back.

As admittedly, you did seem quite upset at the time.

Oh, but you just did remember - it's at the top of this post

" Like people who use the computer as a ****ing typewriter (thinks: hmmm.
Where have I heard that before? Recently, too)."

Let's just hope this doesn't make you even more upset, eh ?


you have by now confirmed to everyone who is still reading this thread
that you are a total plonker.

Congratulations.



michael adams

...









--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 31/07/2015 13:16, bert wrote:

The big plus about UNIX (where every command looks like a mis-type) is
that the operating system is essentially invisible to the end user. Well
it was designed by a telephone company.

That's true of windows and other OSes.
You can run applications and never see the OS if you want to.
An example is a cash machine, you don't see the windows or other OS unless there is a
fault.

Or sometimes the manned tills in Sainsbury, that are closed.

Because of these embedded XP systems, security updates will be
available for XP for around another 4 years. It simply requires a
registry hack to convince the OS that its running Windows Embedded
POSReady 2009, a variant of XP that's used by ATMs and cash registers
Apparently without ill effect.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/23103...s-rolling.html


michael adams

....

On 31/07/15 22:34, F wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

which is only needed because of fundamental design flaws in windows. as
is the 'reboot on upgrade of anything'

A reboot isn't needed every time.

I never said it was. But it is needed if you replace a DLL that is in
use by a fundamental part of windows

The link to the 2014 document by Microsoft that explains why, I posted
earlier.

Widows doesn't lock disk image files that way - it takes a copy of them
and indeed its possible to still access a file that is still open after
its been 'deleted' .

THis was a problem that was solved way back when UNIX was written as a
result of situationist that had arisen in earlier multi tasking
operating systems. Windows was never a multi-tasking operating system
until IIRC win 98 or thereabouts.

Likewise the security aspects of 500+ users as distinct from one
sysadmin are built into Unix in a way that windows never really got on
top of.

That why linux - which copied the Unix model - is fundamentally secure
and windows is fundamentally insecure, And why Unix derived file systems
can cope with millions of reads erases and writes without needing 'de
fragging'.

I could go pon about te way memory is handled, so that Linux doesn't
'run out of memory' nearly as easily as windows, about proper
pre-emptive multi tasking that means its hard for one user level
application to crash the whole machine, and so on...

Windows is like a Lamborghini built on a tractor chassis. It fools some
peoole, but its will always be a tractor.

Linux is 100 times more professional in every respect bar marketing.
After all, why market something that is never sold?

Its written by professionals for professionals. Windows is written by
amateurs for amateurs.

The fact that there are 1000 times more amateurs than professionals is
why it still exists





--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 09:32:16 +0100, Robin wrote:

David Lang wrote:
Hi

New laptop is already starting to run slowly. Piggin Windows 8.


I wonder if it is (in part at least) a matter of perception.

There is the issue of perception. However, that can work both ways. In
my case, because I was *anticipating* a boost in performance out of my
five yearly major MoBo/CPU/RAM hardware upgrades (staying with win95 and
then win2k), I would often feel underwhelmed at the performance boost.

There was no denying the boost in performance, I just wasn't as
impressed as I'd hoped to be. It was only *after* using the new setup for
a while before checking out the 'hand me down' that the old components
had become part of (by way of a nostalgia trip) that I then realised how
much better the new hardware was compared to the old. The old setup was
just as fast as it had ever been but compared to the new hardware, it
seemed so much slower than I'd fondly remembered it.


IIRC you went from a pretty old desktop to the new laptop. So the new
laptop was probably faster at booting up, opening programs, opening
photos. You'd have noticed those changes.

This is often the case with a new PC/laptop running MSFT windows but MSFT
craftily added a few 'nonsense' system tuning options using defaults
designed to swiftly bring the performance to a state of decrepitude.

The most notable of these being in regard of the "pagefile" (swap space
on the hard drive used to provide a virtual ram expansion). The default
was 'System managed (recommended)' whereby windows selected the "optimum"
size of this system file moment by moment.

The other options included the manual setting of the minimum and maximum
limits of the pagefile size. Here, you could emulate a *nix type setting
whereby both were set to the same value, typically 1.5 to 2 times
whatever real RAM was installed on the MoBo as a general 'rule of thumb'.

The important point here,being to set the min and max to the same size
so as to create a fixed sized pagefile that *didn't* emulate the Oprah
Winfrey Virus and spread itself out in fragments across the whole
partition space on the hard drive. This meant that free space would then
become fragmented, aggravating the fragmentation hell that was the result
of all those endless windows updates and patches that were being so
generously supplied by MSFT 'out of the goodness of their hearts'.

There were other 'default' settings (typically also described by MSFT as
'recommended') which the end user could change to improve both
performance and security but I'm not going to try and list them here.

If you changed the pagefile settings from 'kakamaimee' to 'sensible'
immediately on accepting the EULAs on a new machine with the inevitable
pre-installation of MSFT windows (or after doing your own 'clean install'
of windows), the system performance would hold up for a lot longer
(especially if you removed 'crapware' (or just didn't inflict it on
yourself in the first place).



Now you are used to it. So you no longer notice the changes. What you
notice instead is that you are again having to wait while the bloody
thing boots up, opens programs etc.

It's not so much a case of 'getting used to it' as a very real slow down
induced by pagefile fragmentation and fragmentation in general from the
inevitable churn of updated system files from the never ending updates
supplied by MFST.

Now that more and more new PCs (and laptops in particular) are being
supplied with SSDs in place of, or in addition to HDDs, this strategy of
"Making the Hardware become tired out before its time" in order to
increase sales of new hardware (and EULs) has become less effective.

However, the predatory practices of the advertising industry using
malware techniques to turn the consumer driven PC/Laptop into a version
of Commercial TV on steroids has come to the rescue of the "Wintel"
corporation. The practice of the major OEMs in inflicting unwanted
crapware also aids the Wintel cause, along with the consumers' own
propensities to self affliction with even more dubious software available
for free from off of the internet.


If so you could of course buy an even newer, more expensive, better
machine; or only use your laptop when drinking and look upon time it
spends booting up etc as opportunities to bend the elbow of your choice


That's so true, it's not even funny.

--
Johnny B Good

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

well since that sub thread was all about MS oddice and word processors that mnerely
conforms your utter idiocy.

You don't insert a new page element inro a (plain) text file. Well I might, but you
certainly wouldn't. You need linux to so that.

you have by now confirmed to everyone who is still reading this thread that you are a
total plonker.

Congratulations.

Congratulations indeed!

You've managed one paragraph at least, that isn't incomprehensible gibberish

namely -

you have by now confirmed to everyone who is still reading this thread that you are a
total plonker

"Everyone who still reading this thread" presumably including all the Windows users
who have participated.

So are you really sure about that ? That you're now speaking on behalf of numerous
Windows users as well ?

As to whether I'm a total plonker, to be really honest with you, you don't seem to have
acquitted yourself very well in that regard either, today. From what I can see,
at least.

And of course, it goes without saying that you've completely missed the point of
the exchange between Timmy and myself. Might I humbly suggest you go and
have a little lie-down before you further embarrass yourself ?




michael adams

....

On 31/07/2015 22:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If it makes you feel any better, have it your way.
Just out of curiosity; is it Linux which does all your typos, or just
your own low standards?

Its my worn out keyboard, failing eyesight and complete contempt for
your posts.




Do I take it you don't know how to install a spiel chucker on linux?

I have never had to. It comes as standard the moment you specify which
language you want to have as standard.

The amount you simply don't know about Linux is only exceeded by the
amount to simply don't know about windows.




So its a spiel chucker that doesn't work then.

On 31/07/2015 22:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 15:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


well there's nowt so deaf as those that stick their fingers in their
ears and yell 'windows is great, windows is good'


Nobody has said that in this thread, some have said linux is great
without pointing out the obvious problems it has.

Well you have been busy denying tje problems that Windows has and
stating all sorts of problems that Linux doesn't have.

Why you feel the need to lie so blatant5ly is rather puzzling - do you
actually care?



What lies?
I have stated facts and while you can have your own opinion the facts
stay the same.

On 31/07/2015 22:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:59, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and almost everything that runs on an ARM runs a linux or
derivcative [sic]
thereof

Only the big systems. A lot of the little ones have something smaller.


depends how small you are going. Slab/phone/router that's linux. Or a
derivative thereof (busybox/android etc).



What does busybox have to do with linux?
Its a piece of open source software that runs as a shell with some built
in commands not an OS.

On 31/07/2015 22:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

8

So which apps do you run on your router/nas/mobile that don't run on
windows anyway?


network address translation Ethernet over ATM, ATM over ADSL, routing of
thee RIP OSPF or BGP flavours, hardware firewall..need I go on?

So which apps do you run that don't run on windows anyway?

Why should that be of interest?


If the same app runs on windows and linux, that one more reason to run
linux, since windows doesn't actually work.



More lies.
You have the nerve to accuse me of being a liar and you come out with
cr@p like that.
You may as well stop posting as nobody will believe a word you say.


Of course the one app i wouldn't be without is MATE.

Since when has a windows manager been an app? It doesn't do anything useful.


Then there's cron, syslog, and ysefil stuff like that.

But they run on windows.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:54:09 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 30/07/2015 23:18, J.B.Treadstone wrote:
Anyway it seems immaterial whatever Linux distro is offered, the windows
crowd seem quite happy to have to put up with AV & malware apps etc. to
run their computers. Something we don't have to worry about, unless you
have windows computers on your network.

I can't believe that post Heartbleed you're still peddling that rubbish.

Because it isn't rubbish.

There's a hell of a lot _more_ malware for Windows, and there are a hell
of a lot of Windows users who don't know what they are doing, and since
they own most of the computers so they are the biggest target.

Ah, the "because there are more windows users than Linux users, windows is
attacked because it's the biggest target" trotted out by ignorant windows
users.

Myth: Windows only gets attacked most because it's such a big target, and
if Linux use (or indeed OS X use) grew then so would the number of attacks.

Fact: When it comes to web servers, the biggest target is Apache, the
Internet's server of choice. Attacks on Apache are nevertheless far fewer
in number, and cause less damage. And in some case Apache-related attacks
have the most serious effect on Windows machines. Attacks are of course
aimed at Windows because of the numbers of users, but its design makes it
a much easier target, and much easier for an attack to wreak havoc.
Windows' widespread (and often unnecessary) use of features such as RPC
meanwhile adds vulnerabilities that really need not be there. Linux's
design is not vulnerable in the same ways, and no matter how successful it
eventually becomes it simply cannot experience attacks to similar levels,
inflicting similar levels of damage, to Windows.

There are /no/ AV apps /specifically/ for Linux. The AV apps which can be
installed from the distro's repositories are to detect /Windows/ malware.

http://www.howtogeek.com/135392/htg-...d-when-you-do/


But Windows does _not_ have a monopoly on malware.

Although Linux is inherently more secure than Windows, Linux programs can
have security holes too. These are usually fixed promptly, so keep the
system up to date. The four steps of blocking at the router, disabling
unnecessary services, running a firewall and keeping your software updated
will mean you can safely use the Internet with confidence.

On 31/07/2015 21:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:43, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 13:18, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows


Don't most bank's cash machines run on XP?

Well exactly.

Stasbility and speed wasn't seen as a primary requirement



Yet they are almost always working and when they aren't its usually the
server that's down (running linux?).

Dennois. You have a problem. You are clutching at any straw to defend
windows the way Harry defends renewable enertgy.
Let me gues: you are a certified lunatic^H^H^H^H^HMicro**** support cl0ne



I only correct your errors and lies.
I use linux more than windows but I use whats best for the job not linux
because its free.
A lot of people can't use your universal solution because linux doesn't
work for everything and you shouldn't keep lying about it doing so.

On 31/07/2015 21:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 20:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 11:18, John Rumm wrote:
(iii) In the server space, Unix won overwhelmingly.

True, but not really relevant to the consumer.

very relevant. It demonstrates that where stability and speed matter,
you don't pick windows



But if you want to be able to use it and buy games and other useful
stuff that works out of the box you buy windows or a mac.
If you are running linux then you have to investigate everything very
carefully to see if it will work with or without having to recompile or
rewrite it.

Dennis. You are 20 years behind the times.

I haven't explicitly complied anything fore at least 10 years to run Linux.

And even then it was only weird stuff to play with.

I can cope with you liking windows, but not totally utter ignorant
attacks on Linux that simply bear no resemblance to reality




I have listed several things that don't work on linux in this thread,
you haven't offered any solution and wont because they don't work on
linux unless you write something to make them work.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , michael adams
wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article , michael adams
wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
et...

Course at the simplest level, user incompetence doesn't help. Like
people who use the computer as a ****ing typewriter (thinks: hmmm.
Where have I heard that before? Recently, too).

Oh dear, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy.

From your remark there I can only conclude that you've never done
any "serious" programming then ? Or as it's called "coding" nowadays
I believe.

"Serious" as meaning anything more advanced than copying
listings out of the back of "My Sinclair" magazines at least.

So you've never experiences that joy that comes with the realisation
that compilers simply don't care how many blank lines you leave.
between routines ? Between subroutines, even between imdividual
lines if you wish ? And the same goes for HTML interpreters
too. You can leave as many blank lines as you like there, as well.

yawn


I'm talking about Word document, dope, not text files. Do keep
up.

No mention of any Word document here, Timmy -

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...

There is also no need, as I've pointed out before, to press the return
key a number of times after typing your signature. You're using a
computer, not a ****ing typewriter.

As far as I can see anyway.

Or maybe you can't remember that far back.

As admittedly, you did seem quite upset at the time.

Oh, but you just did remember - it's at the top of this post

" Like people who use the computer as a ****ing typewriter (thinks: hmmm.
Where have I heard that before? Recently, too)."

Ah what a shining wit. Too dim to notice what the latter post was
*actually* about - MS Office documents. Do keep up.

The question isn't what the latter post was **actually**about, Timmy.

The question is where you'd **recently** heard the reference to a
** ****ing typewriter**

You'd heard it before when you were admonishing me

" There is also no need, as I've pointed out before, to press the return
key a number of times after typing your signature. You're using a
computer, not a ******ing typewriter**.

That's what's my post was a response to

If you want to deny that that was what you were referring to, in saying

"Where have I heard that before? *Recently*, too)."

then go ahead.



michael adams

....

On 31/07/2015 22:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:18, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:



Sounds like a simply way to lose all your documents, photos, and other
information. Then find you are no longer connected to your email,
newsgroups and don't recognise half your software.


same for a reinstall of windows.



Not so.
You can do a repair install and it will keep all the documents and
stuff. you can also upgrade to a new version and it will keep the user
stuff.

BTW windows won't automatically delete a linux install but linux will
delete a windows install, without asking the last time I tried.

Complete lie.

Windows will ALWAYS delete a Linux install but Linux never deletes a
windows install without asking.


Liar.

On 31/07/2015 22:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:35, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 12:52, bert wrote:

I'd like to try Linux on my old laptop which currently holds a screwed
up version of XP. How do I find and implement a source copy.

Use gentoo linux, it downloads and compiles everything to make an
install..

Dont use gentoo linux.

Dennis haspicked the most complicated and geeky distro to make you think
all Linux is like that.

I think he is probably a certified Microsoft engineer and is scared of
loosing his job.



He asked for a source copy and gentoo is by far the easiest way to get
it and compile it. You sound like you know very little about linux and I
suggest you try it before opening your mouth.

On 31/07/15 23:15, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 17:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If it makes you feel any better, have it your way.
Just out of curiosity; is it Linux which does all your typos, or just
your own low standards?

Its my worn out keyboard, failing eyesight and complete contempt for
your posts.




Do I take it you don't know how to install a spiel chucker on linux?

I have never had to. It comes as standard the moment you specify which
language you want to have as standard.

The amount you simply don't know about Linux is only exceeded by the
amount to simply don't know about windows.




So its a spiel chucker that doesn't work then.
No, its a spell checker that I don't have to accept the results of...



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 23:16, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:46, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 15:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


well there's nowt so deaf as those that stick their fingers in their
ears and yell 'windows is great, windows is good'


Nobody has said that in this thread, some have said linux is great
without pointing out the obvious problems it has.

Well you have been busy denying tje problems that Windows has and
stating all sorts of problems that Linux doesn't have.

Why you feel the need to lie so blatant5ly is rather puzzling - do you
actually care?



What lies?

The sheer chutzpah. read the posts where I have explicitly detailed them

I have stated facts

No. you have lied, and lied again.

and while you can have your own opinion the facts
stay the same.

Precisely. And the facts are not the same as YOUR opinions. If that is
what they are. Frankly I think they are just lies.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/15 23:19, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 22:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:59, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 31/07/2015 13:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and almost everything that runs on an ARM runs a linux or
derivcative [sic]
thereof

Only the big systems. A lot of the little ones have something smaller.


depends how small you are going. Slab/phone/router that's linux. Or a
derivative thereof (busybox/android etc).



What does busybox have to do with linux?
Its a piece of open source software that runs as a shell with some built
in commands not an OS.

But it is the user interface to linux. Not any OS.

"BusyBox has been written with size-optimization and limited resources
in mind. It is also extremely modular so you can easily include or
exclude commands (or features) at compile time. This makes it easy to
customize your embedded systems. To create a working system, just add
some device nodes in /dev, a few configuration files in /etc, and a
*Linux kernel*."

http://www.busybox.net/about.html

So you are lying again. Busybox implies Linux.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 31/07/2015 22:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/15 21:30, dennis@home wrote:
On 31/07/2015 11:32, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 11:05:45 +0100
John Rumm wrote:

I can only refer you to the suggestion offered by The Natural
Philosopher:
"Insert DVD, follow instructions."

"Simples", as they say.

Sounds like a simply way to lose all your documents, photos, and
other information. Then find you are no longer connected to your
email, newsgroups and don't recognise half your software.

We are talking about installing a different operating system, so I fail
to understand what you mean by that. Any sensible operator has any
important files backed up already, and why would installing Linux fail
to connect you to the internet?
Of course half the software would not be recognised, but any new
software required is free, in both senses.

Really?
Can you point me to where I can get a free linux RailMaster from?
Will it work with an eLink controller?

How about the camera software for controlling my IP cameras?


You bought a camera that needs windows software to control it?

How 20th century..:-).

List ones that don't.


How about the software for managing my auto feed scanner and replacement
for PaperPort 14 pro?

Golly - the killer app of tje 20th century. PaperPort Pro!

Has anyone even heard of it?

Then there is the simple camera software that downloads and
automatically corrects the compact camera images.
prettyu standard.


But most of us by camereas that do that already or dont need it done.

You mean most linux users limit themselves to cameras that work with linux.




Then there is the software that allows you to control my Olympus DSLR
over USB and the similar one for the Lumix compact which includes live
view over IP.


No probes doing that on linux here for my nikon.

I don't have a nikon so yet again you want to limit users to buying
cameras that work with linux.


I notice you snipped the bit about controlling cameras over IP, probably
becasue you haven't found one that you can get working under linux. I
have but its not really linux its android or windows.


...

Firefox and Thunderbird, the
Mozilla programmes, are the same on either platform and will transfer
directly, importing your old profiles, and LibreOffice understands Word
and Excel and other Windows files. I see no problem.


Maybe but they are just a tiny subset of software that many people need
to use. I see a significant problem.

So do I - you have bought a load of crap that depends- or has made you
think it depends - in windows, to operate.

I have bought what does the job I want to do and stuff the OS. If linux
doesn't work with it then I use what does. You just buy something else
that doesn't do the job and moan about others using software that works.


I am afraid that in your case Dennis, installing Linux will not make you
suddenly not a total sucker and a complete plonker. You are one of thw
very few people who should stay with windows until they prise it out of
your cold dead hands.

Maybe I should delete the linux on the 11 devices its running on, or
maybe not as I am not irrational like you.