On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:50:41 -0000, charles wrote:

In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:13:46 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 23/02/2015 15:39, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:00:01 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:


You wouldn't get it past H&S today but that doesn't mean it is the
worlds most dangerous toy. I expect some of the early dodgy small
steam engines have killed and maimed far more youngsters that
anything else.

How did steam engines kill?

Boiler explosion with an inadequate, jammed or no safety relief valve.
When even a small steam boiler explodes you really know about it!

A couple of examples from the Mamod mailing list:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ar...__t_58382.html

"While he was endeavouring to get a higher pressure on the engine, an old
oil can that served as the boiler" sounds like he wasn't following the
instructions and using the supplied materials.

If you look at the date of the incident, I suspect that it is unlikely
there was a kit of parts or even instructions.

I saw the name "Mamod", which I thought were kits.

--
What's the best part of sex with a transvestite? Reaching around and pretending it went all the way through.

In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:13:46 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 23/02/2015 15:39, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:00:01 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:


You wouldn't get it past H&S today but that doesn't mean it is the
worlds most dangerous toy. I expect some of the early dodgy small
steam engines have killed and maimed far more youngsters that
anything else.

How did steam engines kill?

Boiler explosion with an inadequate, jammed or no safety relief valve.
When even a small steam boiler explodes you really know about it!

A couple of examples from the Mamod mailing list:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ar...__t_58382.html

"While he was endeavouring to get a higher pressure on the engine, an old
oil can that served as the boiler" sounds like he wasn't following the
instructions and using the supplied materials.

If you look at the date of the incident, I suspect that it is unlikely
there was a kit of parts or even instructions.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote:


I've never understood why people think it's the end of the world if lights go out.

Because the wifi stops working too. ;-)

Tim

On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 17:03:18 -0000, Tim+ wrote:

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote:


I've never understood why people think it's the end of the world if lights go out.

Because the wifi stops working too. ;-)

Mine doesn't. It's on the same UPS as the computer and the stereo. And all the house lights actually, but only so the LED bulbs last longer with power surges and brownouts. It also informed me my mains was 253 volts at one stage when they changed the substation (which was working fine, god knows why they changed it). When I reported it, the guy that came out didn't even know they'd changed it and went over to investigate. He claimed that 253 was within tolerance, yet the overvoltage went away a couple of weeks after I reported it. Maybe they can flip a switch on the substation to remove a winding?

--
An Ohio teen has pleaded innocent to stealing his mother's credit card to pay for a friend's breast enlargement surgery.
Police say it's lucky they caught the guy quickly; otherwise, it may have turned into a bigger bust.

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:44:29 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/02/2015 17:39, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 17:25:09 -0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:47:09 -0000, harryagain

wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 20/02/15 17:05, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff

wrote:

You can buy all sorts of luminous stuff nowadays - is there a
different
chemical that glows?

Yes

It's not luminous, it's phosphorescent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorescence

No radioactivity involved

Ah. Although they aways say luminous on the product. I guess it's a
more
commonly known word.

Luminous covers all of the above; it's more general.

Phosphorescence to me makes me think of fluorescent tubes.

Fluorescent - when a substance absorbs a photon of UV or X-ray and
emits it at a longer (e.g. visible) wavelength.

Phosphorescent - light emitted by a substance without combustion or
perceptible heat e.g. glowworms or fireflies.

Luminous just means something is brighter than you'd expect given the
ambient light. It tells you nothing about how the object is producing
the extra light.

Phosphors in the tube fluoresce then, and not phosphoresce :-)

They do both. If you close your eyes first switch off and then look at
the tube in darkness you will see that it phosphoresces for a short
while after switch off. The modern generation of glo products use doped
Strontium Aluminate which is an astonishingly good long life phosphor.
The old glow in the dark stuff used zinc sulphide which was rather poor.

This glo torch is a particularly good example - after a day in sunlight
the torch plastic body emits enough light in total darkness to find it
by if the lights go out suddenly or to see by when dark adapted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glo-Torch-...-/181663763203

It will still keep glowing for several hours after exposure to the sun.

There are also the chemical glow sticks that use a combination of a
peroxide, dye and electron donor to generate cold chemical light.

I've never understood why people think it's the end of the world if lights
go out.

Its not the end of the world, but less convenient than with the lights on.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:33:07 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:44:29 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 21/02/2015 17:39, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 17:25:09 -0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:47:09 -0000, harryagain

wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 20/02/15 17:05, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff

wrote:

You can buy all sorts of luminous stuff nowadays - is there a
different
chemical that glows?

Yes

It's not luminous, it's phosphorescent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorescence

No radioactivity involved

Ah. Although they aways say luminous on the product. I guess it's a
more
commonly known word.

Luminous covers all of the above; it's more general.

Phosphorescence to me makes me think of fluorescent tubes.

Fluorescent - when a substance absorbs a photon of UV or X-ray and
emits it at a longer (e.g. visible) wavelength.

Phosphorescent - light emitted by a substance without combustion or
perceptible heat e.g. glowworms or fireflies.

Luminous just means something is brighter than you'd expect given the
ambient light. It tells you nothing about how the object is producing
the extra light.

Phosphors in the tube fluoresce then, and not phosphoresce :-)

They do both. If you close your eyes first switch off and then look at
the tube in darkness you will see that it phosphoresces for a short
while after switch off. The modern generation of glo products use doped
Strontium Aluminate which is an astonishingly good long life phosphor.
The old glow in the dark stuff used zinc sulphide which was rather poor.

This glo torch is a particularly good example - after a day in sunlight
the torch plastic body emits enough light in total darkness to find it
by if the lights go out suddenly or to see by when dark adapted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glo-Torch-...-/181663763203

It will still keep glowing for several hours after exposure to the sun.

There are also the chemical glow sticks that use a combination of a
peroxide, dye and electron donor to generate cold chemical light.

I've never understood why people think it's the end of the world if lights
go out.

Its not the end of the world, but less convenient than with the lights on.

Not important enough or often enough to bother with a torch.

--
Money can't buy you true love.
It does however put you in a good bargaining position.

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:13:46 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 23/02/2015 15:39, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:00:01 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:


You wouldn't get it past H&S today but that doesn't mean it is the
worlds most dangerous toy. I expect some of the early dodgy small steam
engines have killed and maimed far more youngsters that anything else.

How did steam engines kill?

Boiler explosion with an inadequate, jammed or no safety relief valve.
When even a small steam boiler explodes you really know about it!

A couple of examples from the Mamod mailing list:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ar...__t_58382.html

"While he was endeavouring to get a higher pressure on the engine, an old
oil can that served as the boiler" sounds like he wasn't following the
instructions and using the supplied materials.

"He had constructed a model engine, which had only been finished that night"
sounds much more like he made it from scratch using an oil can and that went
bang because he had no safety valve at all.

On 23/02/2015 15:38, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:44:29 -0000, Martin Brown

This glo torch is a particularly good example - after a day in sunlight
the torch plastic body emits enough light in total darkness to find it
by if the lights go out suddenly or to see by when dark adapted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glo-Torch-...-/181663763203

It will still keep glowing for several hours after exposure to the sun.

There are also the chemical glow sticks that use a combination of a
peroxide, dye and electron donor to generate cold chemical light.

I've never understood why people think it's the end of the world if
lights go out.

If it is pitch black and where I live on a moonless night it isn't that
far off then you have to stand still for at least fifteen minutes if the
power fails and you can't immediately lay your hands on a torch.

You can just about pick your way by starlight but it isn't easy.

I have a pair of those glo torches and a couple of mains standby
emergency lights for this very reason as our power does drop out
usually in the middle of winter storms or cooking supper.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:48:53 -0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 23/02/2015 15:38, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:44:29 -0000, Martin Brown

This glo torch is a particularly good example - after a day in sunlight
the torch plastic body emits enough light in total darkness to find it
by if the lights go out suddenly or to see by when dark adapted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glo-Torch-...-/181663763203

It will still keep glowing for several hours after exposure to the sun.

There are also the chemical glow sticks that use a combination of a
peroxide, dye and electron donor to generate cold chemical light.

I've never understood why people think it's the end of the world if
lights go out.

If it is pitch black and where I live on a moonless night it isn't that
far off then you have to stand still for at least fifteen minutes if the
power fails and you can't immediately lay your hands on a torch.

You can just about pick your way by starlight but it isn't easy.

I have a pair of those glo torches and a couple of mains standby
emergency lights for this very reason as our power does drop out
usually in the middle of winter storms or cooking supper.

Blind people manage, stop being such a sissy.

--
TEACHER: Clyde, your composition on "My Dog" is exactly the same as your brother's. Did you copy his?
CLYDE : No, sir. It's the same dog.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:48:11 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:13:46 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 23/02/2015 15:39, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:00:01 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:


You wouldn't get it past H&S today but that doesn't mean it is the
worlds most dangerous toy. I expect some of the early dodgy small steam
engines have killed and maimed far more youngsters that anything else.

How did steam engines kill?

Boiler explosion with an inadequate, jammed or no safety relief valve.
When even a small steam boiler explodes you really know about it!

A couple of examples from the Mamod mailing list:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ar...__t_58382.html

"While he was endeavouring to get a higher pressure on the engine, an old
oil can that served as the boiler" sounds like he wasn't following the
instructions and using the supplied materials.

"He had constructed a model engine, which had only been finished that night"
sounds much more like he made it from scratch using an oil can and that went
bang because he had no safety valve at all.

Ah, I saw this out of the corner of my eye: "The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum Forum Index" and thought it was a proper Mamod model, which I can't see going wrong like that.

--
My sister-in-law sat on my glasses and broke them. It was my own fault. I should have taken them off.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 22/02/2015 15:14, charles wrote:
In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 12:39:49 -0000, Jim Newman wrote:

On 20/02/2015 17:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff
wrote:

What about the trimfones btalite gas filled tube behind the dial? I
can recall being rather appalled back in the 60s when we found my
grandfathers old alarm clock in a drawer, still glowing from dots of
something or other after 10 years. I doubt it would be adangerous
unless you strapped it to yourself for a while though.

We binned it. Brian

Unnecessarily over cautious.

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage.
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic...

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

--
Don't waste money on binoculars, stand closer to the object.

On 23/02/2015 21:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/02/2015 15:14, charles wrote:
In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 12:39:49 -0000, Jim Newman wrote:

On 20/02/2015 17:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff
wrote:

What about the trimfones btalite gas filled tube behind the dial? I
can recall being rather appalled back in the 60s when we found my
grandfathers old alarm clock in a drawer, still glowing from dots of
something or other after 10 years. I doubt it would be adangerous
unless you strapped it to yourself for a while though.

We binned it. Brian

Unnecessarily over cautious.

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage.
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic...

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

You must lead a very sheltered life. They are available in the UK.

http://www.sos-uk.co.uk/tritium-signs.html

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/02/2015 21:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/02/2015 15:14, charles wrote:
In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 12:39:49 -0000, Jim Newman wrote:

On 20/02/2015 17:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff
wrote:

What about the trimfones btalite gas filled tube behind the dial? I
can recall being rather appalled back in the 60s when we found my
grandfathers old alarm clock in a drawer, still glowing from dots of
something or other after 10 years. I doubt it would be adangerous
unless you strapped it to yourself for a while though.

We binned it. Brian

Unnecessarily over cautious.

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage.
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic...

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

You must lead a very sheltered life. They are available in the UK.

http://www.sos-uk.co.uk/tritium-signs.html

and, how much do they cost? battery powered signs are about £15.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 11:05:47 AM UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/02/2015 21:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/02/2015 15:14, charles wrote:
In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 12:39:49 -0000, Jim Newman wrote:

On 20/02/2015 17:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff
wrote:

What about the trimfones btalite gas filled tube behind the dial? I
can recall being rather appalled back in the 60s when we found my
grandfathers old alarm clock in a drawer, still glowing from dots of
something or other after 10 years. I doubt it would be adangerous
unless you strapped it to yourself for a while though.

We binned it. Brian

Unnecessarily over cautious.

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage..
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic....

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

You must lead a very sheltered life. They are available in the UK.

http://www.sos-uk.co.uk/tritium-signs.html

and, how much do they cost? battery powered signs are about £15.

How hard is it to reach the sign to change the battery is possibly a consdideration and run power to maintain it.

Tritium signs require no power at all.

BTW seem to remember something about U.S. having no reactors capable of making tritium and relied on supplies from U.K. Calder Hall to maintain their supply for H bomb fuelling.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 24/02/2015 11:07, charles wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/02/2015 21:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage.
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic...

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

You must lead a very sheltered life. They are available in the UK.

http://www.sos-uk.co.uk/tritium-signs.html

and, how much do they cost? battery powered signs are about £15.

Where power to weight ratio and/or flameproof areas are concerned
maintenance free and fail safe is far more important than unit cost.

Aircraft, oilrigs and refineries are amongst the places where these
signs make very good sense. Flameproof electrical kit is expensive!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 14:14:40 -0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 24/02/2015 11:07, charles wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/02/2015 21:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage.
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic...

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

You must lead a very sheltered life. They are available in the UK.

http://www.sos-uk.co.uk/tritium-signs.html

and, how much do they cost? battery powered signs are about £15.

Where power to weight ratio and/or flameproof areas are concerned
maintenance free and fail safe is far more important than unit cost.

Aircraft, oilrigs and refineries are amongst the places where these
signs make very good sense. Flameproof electrical kit is expensive!

Yet they plaster every bloody building with the things.

--
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!

On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:38:42 -0000, Martin Brown wrote:

On 23/02/2015 21:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2015 10:46:47 -0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/02/2015 15:14, charles wrote:
In article , Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 12:39:49 -0000, Jim Newman wrote:

On 20/02/2015 17:04, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:26:40 -0000, Brian Gaff
wrote:

What about the trimfones btalite gas filled tube behind the dial? I
can recall being rather appalled back in the 60s when we found my
grandfathers old alarm clock in a drawer, still glowing from dots of
something or other after 10 years. I doubt it would be adangerous
unless you strapped it to yourself for a while though.

We binned it. Brian

Unnecessarily over cautious.

So long as you don't break the glass envelope the tritium can't do you
any harm. Tritiated plastics are also used in emergency exit signage.
The beta emission at 18.6keV is pretty well matched to TV phosphors and
very few can get through even the thinnest layer of glass or plastic...

The emergency exits I've seen are lit by a battery operated lamp.

You must lead a very sheltered life. They are available in the UK.

http://www.sos-uk.co.uk/tritium-signs.html

Or I'm not sad enough to seek out emergency exit signage.

--
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!

Huge writes:

On 2015-02-23, Martin Brown wrote:

Uranium ore isn't particularly dangerous unless you crush it and eat it
(and even then it isn't all that bad). Uranium photographic intensifier
was once commonplace and uranium glass is still easily available today.

I was at a "glass fair" yesterday (my wife collects "art glass") and there
were a number of examples of uranium glass there.

And if it's true that bananas are a good source of potassium (as
low-salt 'salt' most certainly is, in spades) they'll also be a good
source of a slightly radioactive potassium isotope :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-40

Half-life over a billion years and a beta emitter so not very 'hot' at
all.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost