On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:56:05 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

If you're going to install a smart meter anyway, there is no addtional
cost.

There are lots of additonal costs. You just don't have the ability to recognise
it.

There is lots of other stuff that could be controlled.
Washing machines.

Next to **** all load and no one in their right mind washes at peak demand times
anyway, they wash last thing at night, overnight or early morning so they can
hang out the washing to dry in daylight (this also goes some way to preventing
ladies underwear being stolen from washing lines by perverts)

Water heaters.

The majority is either gas or oil or E7 offpeak

Space heaters.

You really don't understand this UK energy sector do you? Space heating is
done with gas, oil, wood. The only area where electricity has any penetration
is in new build, high rise accommodation, in urban regeneration. By virtue of
the building regs this is massively insulated and consequently presents bugger
all load. In some cities these structures are largely unoccupied as they were
bought offplan by absentee landlords as a very long term investment / tax dodge.

Heat pumps.

Not really any point unless you have a massive area of land adjacent to every
property, or a borehole.

I would forsee this sort of stuff being wired on a separate circuit.

Yes, BS7671 sort of requires it and has done for a while now.


Also there is power exporting stuff to be considered.

No there isn't Microgeneration is irrelevant. Look up gas transmission
network costs and electricity use of system charges for the reasons why.

There will be no gas supply to future houses,

You may be right there, after Thatchers 1990 Electricity Act enabled Enron & Co
to **** away a century's worth of UK reserves in about a decade at 40%
efficiency.

they will use heat pumps.

But wrong there as without gas for generation this country is ****ed. At one
time we had a sensible long term energy policy that had diversity. Now all we
have are gas, useless ****ing windmills, soon to be pensioned off coal, nuclear
on its last legs and 45p per kWh being paid to FIT parasites that don't even
have the decency to export a single unit. Being Thatcherites to the core they
don't give a ****.

This alone will be a massive saving.

There is no massive saving. Thatcher instigated this mess, FIT parasites and
foreigners like EdF, RWE and the like are the only ones benefiting. The whole
country is being screwed and smart meters are the one technology that *will not*
fix it. If you'd suggested a time machine and an RPG fired into Downing Street
on the afternoon of 4th May 1979 then you just might have been onto something.

--

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:11:25 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 02:51:15 +0100, Java Jive wrote:

Manifest ********, we may still be suffering the effects of botched
Thatcherite privatisations, but we only comparatively recently
finished paying off the WW2 debts to the US caused by Hitler.

It took 50 years or so paying off war debts. Thatchers legacy will be impacting
this country for centuries.

You can't be certain of that, and, awful though she was, at least she
didn't cynically kill off 6 million people on the basis of their
religion and genetics.

Though I've often wondered whether, had she been born into a different
environment, what she would actually have done.

P.S. stop top posting you ****ing imbecile

Only imbeciles abuse others for their (deliberate, based on
ergonomics) posting style.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Friday, April 26, 2013 3:10:44 PM UTC+1, The Other Mike wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:31:50 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:



On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"

wrote:



He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils



True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.





So why do we remember chants and protests in the street for the person

who finished the job, but not for the person who started it?



Because milk is an important source of Calcium, in a country where the diet was

shown to be deficient in Calcium across most social sectors and where uptake is

known to be much more effective the younger you are. In the older age group,

removal of the milk made some difference, but nowhere near as much as in the

younger age group. The legacy of Thatcher and her milk snatching will become

more apparent in the coming years as that age group affected by her **** you

attitude encounters increasing cases of osteoporosis that was almost entirely

preventable.



The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to

permeate almost every aspect of our country today. She should have been

swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.

Yes, while she eneded her days in the Ritz, my mum's in hospital where they can;t managed to put a bit of pickle in her turkey sandwich.

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to
permeate almost every aspect of our country today. She should have been
swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.

Well said, sir. My own view, expressed a couple of years ago in another
group, is that Thatcher (and of course her cackling cronies) took two of
mankind's worst weaknesses -- selfishness and greed -- and turned them
into "virtues", in her version of 'society'.

John

On 26/04/2013 15:10, The Other Mike wrote:
Because milk is an important source of Calcium, in a country where the diet was
shown to be deficient in Calcium across most social sectors and where uptake is
known to be much more effective the younger you are. In the older age group,
removal of the milk made some difference, but nowhere near as much as in the
younger age group. The legacy of Thatcher and her milk snatching will become
more apparent in the coming years as that age group affected by her **** you
attitude encounters increasing cases of osteoporosis that was almost entirely
preventable.

Calcium uptake is strongly related to vitamin D - something which we as
a country [1] seem to be low on.

Milk was also an important source of iodine - partly from the use of
iodophor teat disinfection, partly inherently.

There has been, I believe, a switch by many to chlorine-based teat
disinfectants, and a lower consumption of milk. We appear to be seeing
lower iodine levels at least in younger females. Which might also be
having its impact.

[1] UK but especially Scotland.

--
Rod

On 26/04/13 17:36, Another John wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to
permeate almost every aspect of our country today. She should have been
swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.
Well said, sir. My own view, expressed a couple of years ago in another
group, is that Thatcher (and of course her cackling cronies) took two of
mankind's worst weaknesses -- selfishness and greed -- and turned them
into "virtues", in her version of 'society'.

John
whereas Tony Blair took ego, selfishness greed AND INCOMPETENCE and
turned them into virtues, washing over the selfishness with 'you deserve
it, it's your right' and the greed with 'you deserve it, its your right'
and the ego with 'you are as good as anyone else' and the incompetence
with 'as long as you BELIEVE its right, it is right!'

Been a long time since a politician appealed to peoples BETTER natures.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 02:51:15 +0100, Java Jive wrote:
[snip the ravings of the idiot]

P.S. stop top posting you ****ing imbecile

Oh he's not just an imbecile. He's an arrogant ****wad as well. So you can
guess that he'll keep top posting. Read his web pages some day, if you have
a strong stomach, his peotry (molesworth) is amusing, truly worthy of a
gonagall.

Best killfiled since he has nothing of interest to say.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 26/04/2013 15:10 The Other Mike wrote:

The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to
permeate almost every aspect of our country today. She should have been
swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.

You want salt and vinegar on that chip?

--
F

In article , The Other Mike
scribeth thus
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:31:50 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:

On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.


So why do we remember chants and protests in the street for the person
who finished the job, but not for the person who started it?

Because milk is an important source of Calcium, in a country where the diet was
shown to be deficient in Calcium across most social sectors

Was then or is now?..


and where uptake is
known to be much more effective the younger you are. In the older age group,
removal of the milk made some difference, but nowhere near as much as in the
younger age group. The legacy of Thatcher and her milk snatching will become
more apparent in the coming years as that age group affected by her **** you
attitude encounters increasing cases of osteoporosis that was almost entirely
preventable.


Have you anything like a peer reviewed or published paper anywhere to
back that up at all?..


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
whisky-dave scribeth thus
On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:26:04 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2013 06:58, harry wrote:

On Apr 25, 11:56 pm, "Dave Liquorice"

wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:29:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

The idea is to control smart appliances..



for instance you can smooth the peaks by turning off a few million

freezers and it won't affect the contents at all.



So how do you *actually* do that in a manner that the user can't easily

bypass?



And I doubt that turning freezers off would make that much difference

anyway they aren't running most of the time and when they are it's not

very much maybe 150 W per freezer. You'd probably get a better result

turning off large screen tellies.





The biggest electricity user in my house is indeed the TV (390w)





Are you using it for space heating?

Mine is 39 watts.

I'd say he has a 42" plasma ......at a guess a panasonic ;-)

my 28" sony CRT is 95W



Ours is I think around 5 watts or whatever it is on standby. We hardly
seem so use it anymore probably the programming has something to do with
it;!...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/04/13 17:36, Another John wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:

The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to
permeate almost every aspect of our country today. She should have been
swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.

Well said, sir. My own view, expressed a couple of years ago in another
group, is that Thatcher (and of course her cackling cronies) took two of
mankind's worst weaknesses -- selfishness and greed -- and turned them
into "virtues", in her version of 'society'.

John

whereas Tony Blair took ego, selfishness greed AND INCOMPETENCE and
turned them into virtues, washing over the selfishness with 'you deserve
it, it's your right' and the greed with 'you deserve it, its your right'
and the ego with 'you are as good as anyone else' and the incompetence
with 'as long as you BELIEVE its right, it is right!'

I'm not about to disagree with you! New Labour compounded Thatcherism.

and

Been a long time since a politician appealed to people's BETTER natures.

Yup.

John

On 26/04/2013 13:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:26:04 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2013 06:58, harry wrote:

On Apr 25, 11:56 pm, "Dave Liquorice"

wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:29:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

The idea is to control smart appliances..



for instance you can smooth the peaks by turning off a few million

freezers and it won't affect the contents at all.



So how do you *actually* do that in a manner that the user can't easily

bypass?



And I doubt that turning freezers off would make that much difference

anyway they aren't running most of the time and when they are it's not

very much maybe 150 W per freezer. You'd probably get a better result

turning off large screen tellies.





The biggest electricity user in my house is indeed the TV (390w)





Are you using it for space heating?

Mine is 39 watts.

I'd say he has a 42" plasma ......at a guess a panasonic ;-)

And to think he claims to have no heating when he is using electric heating.

On 24/04/2013 09:48, Andy Champ wrote:


Or Churchill

Gallipoli


--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Apr 26, 3:17*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:56:05 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

If you're going to install a smart meter anyway, there is no addtional
cost.

There are lots of additonal costs. *You just don't have the ability to recognise
it.

There is lots of other stuff that could be controlled.
Washing machines.

Next to **** all load and no one in their right mind washes at peak demand times
anyway, they wash last thing at night, overnight or early morning so they can
hang out the washing to dry in daylight (this also goes some way to preventing
ladies underwear being stolen from washing lines by perverts)

Water heaters.

The majority is either gas or oil or E7 offpeak

Space heaters.

You really don't understand this UK energy sector do you? * Space heating is
done with gas, oil, wood. *The only area where electricity has any penetration
is in new build, high rise accommodation, in urban regeneration. *By virtue of
the building regs this is massively insulated and consequently presents bugger
all load. *In some cities these structures are largely unoccupied as they were
bought offplan by absentee landlords as a very long term investment / tax dodge.

Heat pumps.

Not really any point unless you have a massive area of land adjacent to every
property, or a borehole.

I would forsee this sort of stuff being wired on a separate circuit.

Yes, BS7671 sort of requires it and has done for a while now.

Also there is power exporting stuff to be considered.

No there isn't * Microgeneration is irrelevant. *Look up gas transmission
network costs and electricity use of system charges for the reasons why.

There will be no gas supply to future houses,

You may be right there, after Thatchers 1990 Electricity Act enabled Enron & Co
to **** away a century's worth of UK reserves in about a decade at 40%
efficiency.

they will use heat pumps.

But wrong there as without gas for generation this country is ****ed. *At one
time we had a sensible long term energy policy that had diversity. Now all we
have are gas, useless ****ing windmills, soon to be pensioned off coal, nuclear
on its last legs and 45p per kWh being paid to FIT parasites that don't even
have the decency to export a single unit. *Being Thatcherites to the core they
don't give a ****.

This alone will be a massive saving.

There is no massive saving. Thatcher instigated this mess, FIT parasites and
foreigners like EdF, RWE and the like are the only ones benefiting. *The whole
country is being screwed and smart meters are the one technology that *will not*
fix it. * If you'd suggested a time machine and an RPG fired into Downing Street
on the afternoon of 4th May 1979 then you just might have been onto something.

--
While Wilson/Callaghan were in power,around 300 coal mines closed
While Thatcher was in power arond 150 coal mines closed.
They closed because they were (near)exhausted and during the strike
many fell into disrepair.

During the strike, cheaper foreign coal was imported and continued to
be imported ever since.

So the miners helped to bring about their own downfall.
Useful idiots to the likes of Scargill and half wit Trots like
yourself.

Half wits that propagate all the lies/fantasy they were indoctrinated
with by their Trot/halfwit families.

On Apr 26, 5:36*pm, Another John wrote:
In article ,
*The Other Mike wrote:

The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to
permeate almost every aspect of our country today. *She should have been
swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.

Well said, sir. *My own view, expressed a couple of years ago in another
group, is that Thatcher (and of course her cackling cronies) took two of
mankind's worst weaknesses -- selfishness and greed -- and turned them
into "virtues", in her version of 'society'.

John

Oh an the striking miners thought they could sponge off the country
for the rest of their lives in their overmanned, underperforming,
uneconomic mines?
Putting out their lying propaganda to this day.

We would be living in a Soviet/North Korean state today if it weren't
for Maggie.

On Apr 26, 8:15*pm, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave scribeth thus









On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:26:04 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2013 06:58, harry wrote:

On Apr 25, 11:56 pm, "Dave Liquorice"

wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:29:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

The idea is to control smart appliances..

for instance you can smooth the peaks by turning off a few million

freezers and it won't affect the contents at all.

So how do you *actually* do that in a manner that the user can't easily

bypass?

And I doubt that turning freezers off would make that much difference

anyway they aren't running most of the time and when they are it's not

very much maybe 150 W per freezer. You'd probably get a better result

turning off large screen tellies.

The biggest *electricity user in my house is indeed the TV (390w)

Are you using it for space heating?

Mine is 39 watts.

I'd say he has a 42" plasma ......at a guess a panasonic ;-)

my 28" sony CRT is 95W

Ours is I think around 5 watts or whatever it is on standby. We hardly
seem so use it anymore probably the programming has something to do with
it;!...
--
Tony Sayer

The TV is on for around four hours per day. I use it as a computer
monitor. The main problem is that it is on in the evening when the PV
panels aren't working.

My next user is the freezers though they are A++ rated.
Used mostly for garden produce.
I have fitted them with a timer to shut them off for part of the
night, so they run more by day. I have turned the stat lower too.

You need to check stuff out with a KWh meter to find out what's what.

On Apr 26, 8:50*pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
On 26/04/2013 13:45, whisky-dave wrote:









On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:26:04 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2013 06:58, harry wrote:

On Apr 25, 11:56 pm, "Dave Liquorice"

wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:29:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

The idea is to control smart appliances..

for instance you can smooth the peaks by turning off a few million

freezers and it won't affect the contents at all.

So how do you *actually* do that in a manner that the user can't easily

bypass?

And I doubt that turning freezers off would make that much difference

anyway they aren't running most of the time and when they are it's not

very much maybe 150 W per freezer. You'd probably get a better result

turning off large screen tellies.

The biggest *electricity user in my house is indeed the TV (390w)

Are you using it for space heating?

Mine is 39 watts.

I'd say he has a 42" plasma ......at a guess a panasonic ;-)

And to think he claims to have no heating when he is using electric heating.

So you don't have a TV/freezers/lights/computer etc?

On Apr 26, 5:36*pm, Another John wrote:
In article ,
*The Other Mike wrote:

The harm that Thatcher caused this country was immense and it continues to
permeate almost every aspect of our country today. *She should have been
swinging from the gallows for treason decades ago.

Well said, sir. *My own view, expressed a couple of years ago in another
group, is that Thatcher (and of course her cackling cronies) took two of
mankind's worst weaknesses -- selfishness and greed -- and turned them
into "virtues", in her version of 'society'.

John

Oh? You forgotten about this already?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_discontent

There's nobody greedier than socialists.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:24:58 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Apr 26, 3:17*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:56:05 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

If you're going to install a smart meter anyway, there is no addtional
cost.

There are lots of additonal costs. *You just don't have the ability to recognise
it.

There is lots of other stuff that could be controlled.
Washing machines.

Next to **** all load and no one in their right mind washes at peak demand times
anyway, they wash last thing at night, overnight or early morning so they can
hang out the washing to dry in daylight (this also goes some way to preventing
ladies underwear being stolen from washing lines by perverts)

Water heaters.

The majority is either gas or oil or E7 offpeak

Space heaters.

You really don't understand this UK energy sector do you? * Space heating is
done with gas, oil, wood. *The only area where electricity has any penetration
is in new build, high rise accommodation, in urban regeneration. *By virtue of
the building regs this is massively insulated and consequently presents bugger
all load. *In some cities these structures are largely unoccupied as they were
bought offplan by absentee landlords as a very long term investment / tax dodge.

Heat pumps.

Not really any point unless you have a massive area of land adjacent to every
property, or a borehole.

I would forsee this sort of stuff being wired on a separate circuit.

Yes, BS7671 sort of requires it and has done for a while now.

Also there is power exporting stuff to be considered.

No there isn't * Microgeneration is irrelevant. *Look up gas transmission
network costs and electricity use of system charges for the reasons why.

There will be no gas supply to future houses,

You may be right there, after Thatchers 1990 Electricity Act enabled Enron & Co
to **** away a century's worth of UK reserves in about a decade at 40%
efficiency.

they will use heat pumps.

But wrong there as without gas for generation this country is ****ed. *At one
time we had a sensible long term energy policy that had diversity. Now all we
have are gas, useless ****ing windmills, soon to be pensioned off coal, nuclear
on its last legs and 45p per kWh being paid to FIT parasites that don't even
have the decency to export a single unit. *Being Thatcherites to the core they
don't give a ****.

This alone will be a massive saving.

There is no massive saving. Thatcher instigated this mess, FIT parasites and
foreigners like EdF, RWE and the like are the only ones benefiting. *The whole
country is being screwed and smart meters are the one technology that *will not*
fix it. * If you'd suggested a time machine and an RPG fired into Downing Street
on the afternoon of 4th May 1979 then you just might have been onto something.

--
While Wilson/Callaghan were in power,around 300 coal mines closed
While Thatcher was in power arond 150 coal mines closed.
They closed because they were (near)exhausted and during the strike
many fell into disrepair.

During the strike, cheaper foreign coal was imported and continued to
be imported ever since.

So the miners helped to bring about their own downfall.
Useful idiots to the likes of Scargill and half wit Trots like
yourself.

Half wits that propagate all the lies/fantasy they were indoctrinated
with by their Trot/halfwit families.

Harry, you bring the mners into this as a 'standard defence' because you cannot
even begin to comprehend all the other damage Thatcher did. You are blind to it,
totally. Mines will close and always did as workings became more dangerous.
Mines did not fall into disrepair during the strike, even in areas of 100%
support safety inspections were carried out underground every single day. Some
workings became impossible to rework because mining often needs to be a
continuous process with a carefully managed advance or retreat. Stay still and
you lose millions in equipment. Even in areas with 100% strike support miners
went underground to preserve workings.

The miners were by far the most mobile industrial workforce of the past 150
years. Harder working and exposed to more danger than in a great many
professions. Highly skilled, mobile, dedicated, flexible, innovative. The UK
exported advanced mining technology to the world. It wasn't just about miners,
it wasn't just about unions, it wasn't just Scargill. Thatcher destroyed an
industry, destroyed entire communities, she dismantled advanced combustion
research projects, handing the technology on a plate to the Americans and the
Japanese.

Thatcher inflicted mortal damage on an entire country, in 11 years she did more
damage than any single person did in the past 1000. Her legacy is ignorant
****s like you that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, ****s
that grab more and more at the expense of others because they think its their
absolute right, you are the very dregs of society Harry. Your type are a
disgrace to the human race, pure scum.

Now **** off and crawl under a rock you ugly little ****

P.S. I am not a Trot you ****ing parasitic obnoxious retarded ****.




--

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:24:58 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:

On Apr 26, 3:17 pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:56:05 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:

If you're going to install a smart meter anyway, there is no addtional
cost.

There are lots of additonal costs. You just don't have the ability to
recognise
it.

There is lots of other stuff that could be controlled.
Washing machines.

Next to **** all load and no one in their right mind washes at peak
demand times
anyway, they wash last thing at night, overnight or early morning so
they can
hang out the washing to dry in daylight (this also goes some way to
preventing
ladies underwear being stolen from washing lines by perverts)

Water heaters.

The majority is either gas or oil or E7 offpeak

Space heaters.

You really don't understand this UK energy sector do you? Space
heating is
done with gas, oil, wood. The only area where electricity has any
penetration
is in new build, high rise accommodation, in urban regeneration. By
virtue of
the building regs this is massively insulated and consequently presents
bugger
all load. In some cities these structures are largely unoccupied as
they were
bought offplan by absentee landlords as a very long term investment /
tax dodge.

Heat pumps.

Not really any point unless you have a massive area of land adjacent to
every
property, or a borehole.

I would forsee this sort of stuff being wired on a separate circuit.

Yes, BS7671 sort of requires it and has done for a while now.

Also there is power exporting stuff to be considered.

No there isn't Microgeneration is irrelevant. Look up gas
transmission
network costs and electricity use of system charges for the reasons why.

There will be no gas supply to future houses,

You may be right there, after Thatchers 1990 Electricity Act enabled
Enron & Co
to **** away a century's worth of UK reserves in about a decade at 40%
efficiency.

they will use heat pumps.

But wrong there as without gas for generation this country is ****ed.
At one
time we had a sensible long term energy policy that had diversity. Now
all we
have are gas, useless ****ing windmills, soon to be pensioned off coal,
nuclear
on its last legs and 45p per kWh being paid to FIT parasites that don't
even
have the decency to export a single unit. Being Thatcherites to the
core they
don't give a ****.

This alone will be a massive saving.

There is no massive saving. Thatcher instigated this mess, FIT parasites
and
foreigners like EdF, RWE and the like are the only ones benefiting. The
whole
country is being screwed and smart meters are the one technology that
*will not*
fix it. If you'd suggested a time machine and an RPG fired into
Downing Street
on the afternoon of 4th May 1979 then you just might have been onto
something.

--
While Wilson/Callaghan were in power,around 300 coal mines closed
While Thatcher was in power arond 150 coal mines closed.
They closed because they were (near)exhausted and during the strike
many fell into disrepair.

During the strike, cheaper foreign coal was imported and continued to
be imported ever since.

So the miners helped to bring about their own downfall.
Useful idiots to the likes of Scargill and half wit Trots like
yourself.

Half wits that propagate all the lies/fantasy they were indoctrinated
with by their Trot/halfwit families.

Harry, you bring the mners into this as a 'standard defence' because you
cannot
even begin to comprehend all the other damage Thatcher did. You are blind
to it,
totally. Mines will close and always did as workings became more
dangerous.
Mines did not fall into disrepair during the strike, even in areas of 100%
support safety inspections were carried out underground every single day.
Some
workings became impossible to rework because mining often needs to be a
continuous process with a carefully managed advance or retreat. Stay still
and
you lose millions in equipment. Even in areas with 100% strike support
miners
went underground to preserve workings.

The miners were by far the most mobile industrial workforce of the past
150
years. Harder working and exposed to more danger than in a great many
professions. Highly skilled, mobile, dedicated, flexible, innovative.
The UK
exported advanced mining technology to the world. It wasn't just about
miners,
it wasn't just about unions, it wasn't just Scargill. Thatcher destroyed
an
industry, destroyed entire communities, she dismantled advanced combustion
research projects, handing the technology on a plate to the Americans and
the
Japanese.

Thatcher inflicted mortal damage on an entire country, in 11 years she did
more
damage than any single person did in the past 1000. Her legacy is
ignorant
****s like you that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing,
****s
that grab more and more at the expense of others because they think its
their
absolute right, you are the very dregs of society Harry. Your type are a
disgrace to the human race, pure scum.

Now **** off and crawl under a rock you ugly little ****

P.S. I am not a Trot you ****ing parasitic obnoxious retarded ****.


Did you get that job as a charm school head ... ? :-)

Arfa

On Apr 27, 9:07*am, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 23:24:58 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:









On Apr 26, 3:17*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:56:05 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

If you're going to install a smart meter anyway, there is no addtional
cost.

There are lots of additonal costs. *You just don't have the ability to recognise
it.

There is lots of other stuff that could be controlled.
Washing machines.

Next to **** all load and no one in their right mind washes at peak demand times
anyway, they wash last thing at night, overnight or early morning so they can
hang out the washing to dry in daylight (this also goes some way to preventing
ladies underwear being stolen from washing lines by perverts)

Water heaters.

The majority is either gas or oil or E7 offpeak

Space heaters.

You really don't understand this UK energy sector do you? * Space heating is
done with gas, oil, wood. *The only area where electricity has any penetration
is in new build, high rise accommodation, in urban regeneration. *By virtue of
the building regs this is massively insulated and consequently presents bugger
all load. *In some cities these structures are largely unoccupied as they were
bought offplan by absentee landlords as a very long term investment / tax dodge.

Heat pumps.

Not really any point unless you have a massive area of land adjacent to every
property, or a borehole.

I would forsee this sort of stuff being wired on a separate circuit.

Yes, BS7671 sort of requires it and has done for a while now.

Also there is power exporting stuff to be considered.

No there isn't * Microgeneration is irrelevant. *Look up gas transmission
network costs and electricity use of system charges for the reasons why.

There will be no gas supply to future houses,

You may be right there, after Thatchers 1990 Electricity Act enabled Enron & Co
to **** away a century's worth of UK reserves in about a decade at 40%
efficiency.

they will use heat pumps.

But wrong there as without gas for generation this country is ****ed. *At one
time we had a sensible long term energy policy that had diversity. Now all we
have are gas, useless ****ing windmills, soon to be pensioned off coal, nuclear
on its last legs and 45p per kWh being paid to FIT parasites that don't even
have the decency to export a single unit. *Being Thatcherites to the core they
don't give a ****.

This alone will be a massive saving.

There is no massive saving. Thatcher instigated this mess, FIT parasites and
foreigners like EdF, RWE and the like are the only ones benefiting. *The whole
country is being screwed and smart meters are the one technology that *will not*
fix it. * If you'd suggested a time machine and an RPG fired into Downing Street
on the afternoon of 4th May 1979 then you just might have been onto something.

--
While Wilson/Callaghan were in power,around 300 coal mines closed
While Thatcher was in power arond 150 coal mines closed.
They closed because they were (near)exhausted and during the strike
many fell into disrepair.

During the strike, cheaper foreign coal was imported and continued to
be imported ever since.

So the miners helped to bring about their own downfall.
Useful idiots to the likes of Scargill and half wit Trots like
yourself.

Half wits that propagate all the lies/fantasy they were indoctrinated
with by their Trot/halfwit families.

Harry, you bring the mners into this as a 'standard defence' because you cannot
even begin to comprehend all the other damage Thatcher did. You are blind to it,
totally. * Mines will close and always did as workings became more dangerous.
Mines did not fall into disrepair during the strike, even in areas of 100%
support safety inspections were carried out underground every single day. *Some
workings became impossible to rework because mining often needs to be a
continuous process with a carefully managed advance or retreat. Stay still and
you lose millions in equipment. Even in areas with 100% strike support miners
went underground to preserve workings.

The miners were by far the most mobile industrial workforce of the past 150
years. *Harder working and exposed to more danger than in a great many
professions. *Highly skilled, mobile, dedicated, flexible, innovative. * The UK
exported advanced mining technology to the world. *It wasn't just about miners,
it wasn't just about unions, it wasn't just Scargill. *Thatcher destroyed an
industry, destroyed entire communities, she dismantled advanced combustion
research projects, handing the technology on a plate to the Americans and the
Japanese.

Thatcher inflicted mortal damage on an entire country, in 11 years she did more
damage than any single person did in the past 1000. *Her legacy is ignorant
****s like you that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, ****s
that grab more and more at the expense of others because they think its their
absolute right, you are the very dregs of society Harry. Your type are a
disgrace to the human race, pure scum.

Now **** off and crawl under a rock you ugly little ****

P.S. *I am not a Trot you ****ing parasitic obnoxious retarded ****.

--

Miner were idle overpaid *******s in the NCB.
The pits were overmanned,few did a days work.
I lived in a miningarea and knew several miners who told me about what
went on.
Some used to kip out an entire shift.
The mines were awash with restrictive practices too.
No wonder coal was expensive.

The whole business was about getting rid of the Tory party and
Thatcher. Scargill had his orders and money from Moscow to try to
achieve just that.

More mines were shut down under Wilson than Thatcher.
Getting rid of the Trotskites was the best thing happened to this
country.

Every Winter would be a Winter of discontent if they had not been
sorted out.

The present troubles of this country stem from Bliar and Brown-the-
clown. Once again (as per Wilson and Calaghan) the socialists have
f****d up the economy.

We just have to hope Cameron is man enough to get us out of the latest
load of Labour/war criminals' ****e.
We actually need Maggie back.

On 27/04/2013 07:08, alan wrote:
On 24/04/2013 09:48, Andy Champ wrote:


Or Churchill

Gallipoli

So - were you playing 2-up on Thursday?

Andy

On 2013-04-24 21:08:32 +0000, Bob Eager said:

On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:31:50 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:

On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.


So why do we remember chants and protests in the street for the person
who finished the job, but not for the person who started it?

Because Thatcher removed it for small children first, in a previous Tory
government.

I think.

No, the point you need to understand is that Wilson was a traitor to
the Labour Party and an agent of the monetarists, and he started trying
to weaken the trade unions. Hence all the strikes. Now falsely
remembered as due to the strength of the unions, but really because of
the attacks on working class living standards. A Tory figurehead had
to be brought in to change trade union law, but only to continue the
attacks Wislon and Callaghan started. And to bribe sections of the
middle classes to support the plan. So it makes sense that Wilson
started withdrawing milk from secondary schools, as long as you realise
he was an early proto-Thatcher.

Why do you think the press spent so much energy convincing the mugs
they shouldn't vote for Foot or Kinnock? Probably because they
couldn't be sure to be able to bribe them to follow the monetarist
agenda. Who remembers now that the only solid thing the Sun could pin
on Foot was that he wore an insufficiently conservative coat to the
Cenotaph, but this was enough to get all the sheep to vote for the
slaugherer!

--

Percy Picacity

On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

SteveW

On Saturday 27 April 2013 22:21 Percy Picacity wrote in uk.d-i-y:


Why do you think the press spent so much energy convincing the mugs
they shouldn't vote for Foot or Kinnock? Probably because they
couldn't be sure to be able to bribe them to follow the monetarist
agenda. Who remembers now that the only solid thing the Sun could pin
on Foot was that he wore an insufficiently conservative coat to the
Cenotaph, but this was enough to get all the sheep to vote for the
slaugherer!

And the sheeple get what the sheeple deserve. No one makes anyone follow
crap media. They do it because they want to. There's only so much you can
legislate for,

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 27/04/2013 23:02, SteveW wrote:
On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

SteveW

Lots of politicians stand up in Parliament (or wherever else) to "fight"
against something purely to accumulate the image of having fought whilst
actually agreeing with the policy.

(I have not gone to the archives to find out exactly what she said, etc.)

--
Rod

In article
,
harry wrote:


Miner were idle overpaid *******s in the NCB. The pits were overmanned,
few did a days work. I lived in a mining area and knew several miners
who told me about what went on. Some used to kip out an entire shift.
The mines were awash with restrictive practices too.

[god: I can almost see you foaming at the mouth!]

My dear chap: you're not talking about "miners", you're talking about
"the working class" -- who, the world over, and from the dawn of time,
will not work harder than they absolutely have to. And I *think* (I may
be wrong) that this includes all those chaps higher up the pecking order
who do their business on the golf course , or in the corporate
hospitality seats at Wimbledon


No wonder coal was expensive.

Aye -- and it's so cheap nowadays!


The whole business was about getting rid of the Tory party and
Thatcher. Scargill had his orders and money from Moscow to try to
achieve just that.

Ballcocks. Like Thatcher, he was a small-minded power-nut: they
absolutely needed each other. (Just as Thatcher also needed Galtieri.)


More mines were shut down under Wilson than Thatcher.

Y'know --- I never saw this "well-known" factoid until recently: it's
clearly something the Tory propaganda machine has turned up. But
whereas in the Wilson era pits were closed for (as has been stated)
reasons of safety and viability, Thatcher went all out to destroy an
entire industry, and with it the communities that were built around it.

"Let them [get on their bikes and] find other jobs" - ???? It's exactly
analagous to the anecdotal Marie Antoinette quotation about the poor
eating cake.


The present troubles of this country stem from Bliar and Brown-the-
clown. Once again (as per Wilson and Calaghan) the socialists have
f****d up the economy.

Oh, no doubt, no doubt, old chap. The older I get, the more I realise
that "the economy" is whatever the speaker wants it to mean. In your
case: "I am not getting my fair share of money, because it's all been
(and is being) given to those workshy *******s up North."


We just have to hope Cameron is man enough to get us out of the latest
load of Labour/war criminals' ****e.
We actually need Maggie back.

Oh we'd all love to know what you mean by that!
Exactly HOW would Thatcher get us all out of this mess ... which by the
way is a global mess, kicked off by Reaganomics, which basically seemed
to mean "pay for stuff with money that you don't have": such a
fundamentally WRONG philosophy that even Thatcher's own father would
have told her it simply did not make sense.

John

On 28/04/2013 13:24, Huge wrote:
On 2013-04-28, polygonum wrote:
On 27/04/2013 23:02, SteveW wrote:
On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

SteveW

Lots of politicians stand up in Parliament (or wherever else) to "fight"
against something purely to accumulate the image of having fought whilst
actually agreeing with the policy.

(I have not gone to the archives to find out exactly what she said, etc.)

That makes you a bigot in my book.


Fine.

But you in no way explained how she fought. And my comment was and is
applicable to many politicians - most especially where they might wish
to placate some people (e.g. their own constituents) though actually
agree with a policy.

--
Rod

On Apr 28, 3:37*pm, polygonum wrote:
On 28/04/2013 13:24, Huge wrote:







On 2013-04-28, polygonum wrote:
On 27/04/2013 23:02, SteveW wrote:
On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

SteveW

Lots of politicians stand up in Parliament (or wherever else) to "fight"
against something purely to accumulate the image of having fought whilst
actually agreeing with the policy.

(I have not gone to the archives to find out exactly what she said, etc.)

That makes you a bigot in my book.

Fine.

But you in no way explained how she fought. And my comment was and is
applicable to many politicians - most especially where they might wish
to placate some people (e.g. their own constituents) though actually
agree with a policy.

--
Rod

Most politicians are talentless attention seekers.

On Apr 28, 9:19*am, polygonum wrote:
On 27/04/2013 23:02, SteveW wrote: On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

SteveW

Lots of politicians stand up in Parliament (or wherever else) to "fight"
against something purely to accumulate the image of having fought whilst
actually agreeing with the policy.

(I have not gone to the archives to find out exactly what she said, etc.)

--
Rod
Here's what she said/did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margare...2.80.931974.29

On 28/04/2013 17:33, Huge wrote:
On 2013-04-28, polygonum wrote:
On 28/04/2013 13:24, Huge wrote:
On 2013-04-28, polygonum wrote:
On 27/04/2013 23:02, SteveW wrote:
On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

SteveW

Lots of politicians stand up in Parliament (or wherever else) to "fight"
against something purely to accumulate the image of having fought whilst
actually agreeing with the policy.

(I have not gone to the archives to find out exactly what she said, etc.)

That makes you a bigot in my book.


Fine.

But you in no way explained how she fought.

I don't need to. You're the one who said she was lying. Put up or shut up.

Where did I say that "she" was lying? I merely put up the possibility
*** in the absence of any evidence *** and implied that many politicians
do so. If I cared enough, I would go and look at the archives to see
exactly what was said, etc.

Had I been such a hypocritical bigot as you suggest, maybe I would NOT
have drawn attention to my not going to the archives?

--
Rod

On 26/04/2013 20:15, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave scribeth thus
On Friday, April 26, 2013 1:26:04 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2013 06:58, harry wrote:

On Apr 25, 11:56 pm, "Dave Liquorice"

wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:29:25 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

The idea is to control smart appliances..



for instance you can smooth the peaks by turning off a few million

freezers and it won't affect the contents at all.



So how do you *actually* do that in a manner that the user can't easily

bypass?



And I doubt that turning freezers off would make that much difference

anyway they aren't running most of the time and when they are it's not

very much maybe 150 W per freezer. You'd probably get a better result

turning off large screen tellies.





The biggest electricity user in my house is indeed the TV (390w)





Are you using it for space heating?

Mine is 39 watts.

I'd say he has a 42" plasma ......at a guess a panasonic ;-)

my 28" sony CRT is 95W



Ours is I think around 5 watts or whatever it is on standby. We hardly
seem so use it anymore probably the programming has something to do with
it;!...

Unless it's absolutely ancient, it'll be much better than that - even
our ten year old CRT TV takes less than 1W on standby. The digiboxes to
make TVs work now that analogue's gone however ....

SteveW

The biggest electricity user in my house is indeed the TV (390w)





Are you using it for space heating?

Mine is 39 watts.

I'd say he has a 42" plasma ......at a guess a panasonic ;-)

my 28" sony CRT is 95W



Ours is I think around 5 watts or whatever it is on standby. We hardly
seem so use it anymore probably the programming has something to do with
it;!...

Unless it's absolutely ancient, it'll be much better than that - even
our ten year old CRT TV takes less than 1W on standby. The digiboxes to
make TVs work now that analogue's gone however ....


I've never measured it or looked at the manual so 1 watt is fine by
me..

SteveW


--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

We actually need Maggie back.

You need to be sectioned.

--

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 12:57:23 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Did you get that job as a charm school head ... ? :-)

No need. I set up the school in the first place.


--

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Apr 28, 9:19*am, polygonum wrote:
On 27/04/2013 23:02, SteveW wrote: On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils

True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.

Ignoring the fact that the Treasury forced the Education Department to
cut the supply of free milk and M.T. stood up in parliament to fight
against it!

Lots of politicians stand up in Parliament (or wherever else) to "fight"
against something purely to accumulate the image of having fought whilst
actually agreeing with the policy.

(I have not gone to the archives to find out exactly what she said, etc.)

Here's what she said/did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margare...2.80.931974.29

Which leads to this

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-2047372.html

and mention of the autobiography of the evil bitch

and surprise, surprise NOTHING in any published cabinet papers to back it up.


--

On Apr 29, 12:54*pm, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

We actually need Maggie back.

You need to be sectioned.

--

I can see you were brainwashed from an early age.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:43:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 24/04/13 23:35, Adrian wrote:
In message , John Williamson
writes
Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:31:50 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:

On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils
True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.


So why do we remember chants and protests in the street for the person
who finished the job, but not for the person who started it?
Because Thatcher removed it for small children first, in a previous
Tory government.
I think.
No, secondary schools lost it first under the Wilson government, then
as a Tory minister before she became party leader, Thatcher removed
it from primary schools in line with stated government policy.

All this is well documented.


Treasury removed the funding for it whilst Thatcher was education
minister. Arguably she didn't remove it at all.



Adrian
void Left_algorithm()
{
int cause,solution, action;
cause=findSomethingWrong(0);
if(cause)
blamePreviousToryGovernment();
else
solution=blameThatcher();
action=0;
taxes++;
return (void)LabourGovernment(action * void);
}

void Right_algorithm()
{
int blame = rand() % 2;
if (blame == 1)
blamePreviousLabourGovernment()
else
claimAllThePoorAreLazyAndBlameThem();
cutTaxesForTheRich();
increaseTaxesForThePoor();
ignoreAdviceFromExpertsAndBaseAllPoliciesOnDogma() ;
do****AllAboutTheRealProblems();
spendLoadsOfMoneyInKeyMarginalsToTryToGetReelected ();
}
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 13:34:15 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:

If someone can afford to implement smart metering then they can make more money
from building a wind turbine or a CCGT.

But the entire cost of the smart meters will be passed onto the
customers so the energy companies will not oppose it.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 02/05/13 09:53, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:43:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 24/04/13 23:35, Adrian wrote:
In message , John Williamson
writes
Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:31:50 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:

On 24/04/2013 14:18, Java Jive wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils
True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children.


So why do we remember chants and protests in the street for the person
who finished the job, but not for the person who started it?
Because Thatcher removed it for small children first, in a previous
Tory government.
I think.
No, secondary schools lost it first under the Wilson government, then
as a Tory minister before she became party leader, Thatcher removed
it from primary schools in line with stated government policy.

All this is well documented.

Treasury removed the funding for it whilst Thatcher was education
minister. Arguably she didn't remove it at all.



Adrian
void Left_algorithm()
{
int cause,solution, action;
cause=findSomethingWrong(0);
if(cause)
blamePreviousToryGovernment();
else
solution=blameThatcher();
action=0;
taxes++;
return (void)LabourGovernment(action * void);
}
void Right_algorithm()
{
int blame = rand() % 2;
if (blame == 1)
blamePreviousLabourGovernment()
else
claimAllThePoorAreLazyAndBlameThem();
cutTaxesForTheRich();
increaseTaxesForThePoor();
ignoreAdviceFromExpertsAndBaseAllPoliciesOnDogma() ;
do****AllAboutTheRealProblems();
spendLoadsOfMoneyInKeyMarginalsToTryToGetReelected ();
}

Indeed. Which is why I am voting UKIP today.

I have never in my life seen such a blatant set of smearcampaigns
emanating from the press as I have seen over the last 5 days for a LOCAL
election. Cameron is even promising an EU referendum (for the 3rd or 4th
time) !

This is an establishment that is ****ting its pants.

Labour is smiling thinking 'this is the tory party split in two' they
haven't yet seen the pull that UKIP is exerting on LABOUR voters.

I was moved to put mouse to screen

http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20...e%20battle.jpg







--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.