Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display (where
they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just marked up as
87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display (where
they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just marked up as
87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Providing that you _know_ how to use such a tester safely :-)

Not lighting up doesn't mean that there's nothing there; lighting up
doesn't always mean that a dangerous potential is present. A bit like
digital multimeters really, in the wrong hands!

I haven't seen neon screwdrivers for yonks. I used to have one in an
RS toolkit some 25 years ago.

--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display (where
they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just marked up as
87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

Bill

On 10/03/2012 01:47, Bill Wright wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display
(where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just
marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

Bill
As a non electrician I would have thought it could add another bit of
safety. Even to change a socket I have to put the mains ring off then
check the socket is not live then I panick and put the complete mains
off then usually get my wife to double check and at that I still try and
avoid touching a wire while changing it.
But with one of the neon testers then if it lights before switching off
then doesnt light after switching off surely adds another safety zone.

But would be interested in the whats `nasty & dangerous` part.

On Mar 10, 8:05*am, ss wrote:
On 10/03/2012 01:47, Bill Wright wrote: Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display
(where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just
marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

Bill

As a non electrician I would have thought it could add another bit of
safety. Even to change a socket I have to put the mains ring off then
check the socket is not live then I panick and put the complete mains
off then usually get my wife to double check and at that I still try and
avoid touching a wire while changing it.
But with one of the neon testers then if it lights before switching off
then doesnt light after switching off surely adds another safety zone.

But would be interested in the whats `nasty & dangerous` part.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...on_screwdriver

NT

In message , Bill Wright
wrote
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle
display (where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on
special, just marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.


They are OK as long as you are wearing Wellington boots and keep one
hand in your pocket.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Road_Hog wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display (where
they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p

I was happy to spend the extra £12.67

http://www.screwfix.com/p/p/56462

ss wrote:
On 10/03/2012 01:47, Bill Wright wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display
(where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just
marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

Bill
As a non electrician I would have thought it could add another bit of
safety. Even to change a socket I have to put the mains ring off then
check the socket is not live then I panick and put the complete mains
off then usually get my wife to double check and at that I still try and
avoid touching a wire while changing it.
But with one of the neon testers then if it lights before switching off
then doesnt light after switching off surely adds another safety zone.

But would be interested in the whats `nasty & dangerous` part.

Used as you are using it, with a check that it's working, is probably
OK. But people tend to just believe the thing with no other check at
all. That's where the danger lies.

My own check is to short out L & N before touching anything, and lock
the door of the room with the consumer unit. And I always wear gloves
even when I 'know' the circuit is dead.

Bill

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 08:42:13 +0000
Alan wrote:

They are OK as long as you are wearing Wellington boots and keep one
hand in your pocket.

Thus ensuring that it doesn't light up when you touch it onto a live
wire, leading you to believe it's safe to work on.

--
Mike Clarke

On 10/03/2012 08:42, Alan wrote:
In message , Bill Wright
wrote
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle
display (where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on
special, just marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.


They are OK as long as you are wearing Wellington boots and keep one
hand in your pocket.

What, you mean they're safe for Freemasons?

David

Bill Wright :
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle
display (where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on
special, just marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

I use one as part of a safety sequence. The only reason I include the
screwdriver test is because the screwdriver is already there (for
screwing screws), it costs nothing to use it, and if the result is not
as expected, I need to check everything again.

--
Mike Barnes

Tim Streater wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/p/56462

Any particular reason you paid more than £13 for what could be done with
a screwdriver with a built in resistor and neon?

Because it's a self-powered, non-contact voltage detector ...

That depends on whether you mean because people don't use them properly or
if teir design is suspect. The point is that the blade before the
screwdriver bit has to be sheathed and ther needs to be a metal contact on
the handle on the opposite side of the neon of course, and thus pretty safe.
We could have a discussion about making everything100 percent safe, which
would be impracticale.
I can remember a neighbour using one of these which proved his caravan was
live.... Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display
(where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just
marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

Bill

On 09/03/2012 23:58, Road_Hog wrote:
Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display (where
they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just marked up as
87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Not bad if you need a screwdriver, *very* bad if you need a mains tester!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2012 08:05, ss wrote:
On 10/03/2012 01:47, Bill Wright wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:58:49 -0000, "Road_Hog"
wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle display
(where they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p, not on special, just
marked up as 87p.Not bad if you need a mains tester.

Nasty dangerous things. Avoid.

Bill
As a non electrician I would have thought it could add another bit of
safety. Even to change a socket I have to put the mains ring off then
check the socket is not live then I panick and put the complete mains
off then usually get my wife to double check and at that I still try and
avoid touching a wire while changing it.
But with one of the neon testers then if it lights before switching off
then doesnt light after switching off surely adds another safety zone.

But would be interested in the whats `nasty & dangerous` part.

I suspect you will get a few bites on this ;-)

Now, where does one start...

The main problem is that they give both false positives and false
negatives. Hence if you rely on them you can end up thinking a
de-energised circuit is still live, or more worryingly, end up believing
a live circuit is safe.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Owain wrote:

They really should be banned. I'd rather work live and just be very
very very careful about only holding the wires by the plastic bits.

Rubber gloves.

Bill

On 10/03/2012 10:26, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:

Road_Hog wrote:

Was in Morrisons today and they had these on the end of aisle
display (where
they have bits of hardwear). Only 87p

I was happy to spend the extra £12.67

http://www.screwfix.com/p/p/56462

Any particular reason you paid more than £13 for what could be done with
a screwdriver with a built in resistor and neon?

The screwdriver needs contact with a live part, the volt stick is non
contact.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 10 March 2012 12:33:02 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Owain wrote:

They really should be banned. I'd rather work live and just be very
very very careful about only holding the wires by the plastic bits.

Rubber gloves.

Bill

Can you recommend any gloves which will do the job but aren't too bulky?

On 10/03/2012 12:40, kent wrote:
On Saturday, 10 March 2012 12:33:02 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Owain wrote:

They really should be banned. I'd rather work live and just be very
very very careful about only holding the wires by the plastic bits.

Rubber gloves.

Bill

Can you recommend any gloves which will do the job but aren't too bulky?

Proper live working gloves are not particularly small and neat:

http://www.arco.co.uk/products/1457600

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 10 March 2012 13:15:55 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2012 12:40, kent wrote:
On Saturday, 10 March 2012 12:33:02 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Owain wrote:

They really should be banned. I'd rather work live and just be very
very very careful about only holding the wires by the plastic bits.

Rubber gloves.

Bill

Can you recommend any gloves which will do the job but aren't too bulky?

Proper live working gloves are not particularly small and neat:

http://www.arco.co.uk/products/1457600

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Thanks. So not cheap for occasional use by a DIYer.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:40:54 -0800 (PST), kent wrote:

Rubber gloves.

Can you recommend any gloves which will do the job but aren't too bulky?

And won't get penetrated by a sharp bit of wire...


--
Cheers
Dave.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.


--
Adam

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Exersize: the act of removing excess baggage

In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get an
electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you at
your word and try it.




--
Bill

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:17:50 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get an
electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you at
your word and try it.

Well it works well for me. Perhaps you should read more carefully, I use it to CHECK. Tripping the thing by shorting it isn't a good idea, as I have fuses, and I'd need to replace the fusewire! It's a good way to make it certain in my mind that I really did pull the right fuse.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Best Friend Experiment:
Put your dog and your wife in the trunk of the car for an hour.
When you open the trunk, who is really happy to see you!

Bill wrote:
In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my
finger, so if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the
live and neutral (or earth) together so if it is live then I'll
just get a big spark and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get
an electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you
at your word and try it.

Scotty is a steaming great **** of a troll.

--
Adam

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:01:04 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Bill wrote:
In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my
finger, so if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the
live and neutral (or earth) together so if it is live then I'll
just get a big spark and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get
an electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you
at your word and try it.

Scotty is a steaming great **** of a troll.

If you're going to attempt childish insults, try using an insult generator, your own leave a lot to be desired.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Women are not served here. You have to bring your own.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:01:04 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:
Bill wrote:
In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my
finger, so if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch
the live and neutral (or earth) together so if it is live
then I'll just get a big spark and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools,
which are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the
house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to
get an electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take
you at your word and try it.

Scotty is a steaming great **** of a troll.

Nail on head etc.


--
Adam

In message op.way1zz19ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get an
electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you at
your word and try it.

Well it works well for me. Perhaps you should read more carefully, I
use it to CHECK. Tripping the thing by shorting it isn't a good idea,
as I have fuses, and I'd need to replace the fusewire! It's a good way
to make it certain in my mind that I really did pull the right fuse.


Sorry, I did read what you wrote. You said "it's a good way to check"
i.e. you were checking that you had isolated the circuit, you weren't
sure otherwise you wouldn't have needed to check. Again now you are
saying "to make certain" there are safer ways of making certain!! If
you had said that you strapped L to E to ensure a trip if someone else
turned the supply on then that may have been understandable. But NOT
shorting anything to anything, just to check!


I wonder if you have ever had an occasion where the circuit was still
live?

I watched a guy change a socket that was spurred off a ring in a kitchen
one day, he was doing it live, not altogether a good move. The cable
was left unterminated for a moment while he picked up the replacement
socket. The bang and flash were quite spectacular when L&N shorted. 30A
fuse wire takes a moment and a heck of a lot of energy to blow. Not
something you want to play around with "to check".


--
Bill

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:15:32 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:01:04 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:
Bill wrote:
In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my
finger, so if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch
the live and neutral (or earth) together so if it is live
then I'll just get a big spark and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools,
which are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the
house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to
get an electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take
you at your word and try it.

Scotty is a steaming great **** of a troll.

Nail on head etc.

Now you're talking to yourself. Try to grasp the basics of your newsreader before you attempt to give out help in a newsgroup.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Two blondes living in Oklahoma were sitting on a bench talking, and one blonde says to the other, "Which do you think is farther away... Florida or the moon?"
The other blonde turns and says "Helloooooooooo, can you see Florida ?????"

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:32:13 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:17:50 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get an
electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you at
your word and try it.

Well it works well for me. Perhaps you should read more carefully, I use it to CHECK. Tripping the thing by shorting it isn't a good idea, as I have fuses, and I'd need to replace the fusewire! It's a good way to make it certain in my mind that I really did pull the right fuse.

Remember SIDE

S Switch off
I Isolate
D Dump
E Earth

And THINK always.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go36jndZHas


--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 10/03/2012 20:12, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which are
undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

No, it is powerfully dumb way to check.

One day you will get the wrong circuit and short out one in a place with
a high prospective fault current. The "spark" (or arc flash as it would
be) will seriously mess up your day.

Here is the effect of a short on a fake 13A plug fuse (its contains fuse
wire, but no sand to quench the arc):

http://www.bs1363.org.uk/counterfeit_fuse.mpeg

Now imagine that at the end of the cable as you touch those wires
together with your bare hands.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2012 18:28, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:54:14 -0000, Mike Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 08:42:13 +0000
Alan wrote:

They are OK as long as you are wearing Wellington boots and keep one
hand in your pocket.

Thus ensuring that it doesn't light up when you touch it onto a live
wire, leading you to believe it's safe to work on.

Doesn't it light up using your capacitance?

And if you are capacitively coupled to something live yourself, the
potential difference across the neon and resistor is?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:23:33 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message op.way1zz19ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get an
electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you at
your word and try it.

Well it works well for me. Perhaps you should read more carefully, I
use it to CHECK. Tripping the thing by shorting it isn't a good idea,
as I have fuses, and I'd need to replace the fusewire! It's a good way
to make it certain in my mind that I really did pull the right fuse.


Sorry, I did read what you wrote. You said "it's a good way to check"
i.e. you were checking that you had isolated the circuit, you weren't
sure otherwise you wouldn't have needed to check. Again now you are
saying "to make certain" there are safer ways of making certain!! If
you had said that you strapped L to E to ensure a trip if someone else
turned the supply on then that may have been understandable. But NOT
shorting anything to anything, just to check!

Whyever not? That's what fuses and breakers are for.

I wonder if you have ever had an occasion where the circuit was still
live?

Once.

I watched a guy change a socket that was spurred off a ring in a kitchen
one day, he was doing it live, not altogether a good move. The cable
was left unterminated for a moment while he picked up the replacement
socket. The bang and flash were quite spectacular when L&N shorted. 30A
fuse wire takes a moment and a heck of a lot of energy to blow. Not
something you want to play around with "to check".

I've seen a bigger bang than 30 amps. Vapourised copper everywhere. But 30 amps isn't that bad - especially if you're expecting it.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The longest recorded flight of a chicken is thirteen seconds.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:35:53 -0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:32:13 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:17:50 -0000, Bill wrote:

In message op.way02ks5ytk5n5@i7-940, Lieutenant Scott
writes
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:


That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which
are undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

You are joking of course, no sane person deliberately sets out to get an
electric shock or to blow a circuit.

But joking about it is not a good idea, someone may actually take you at
your word and try it.

Well it works well for me. Perhaps you should read more carefully, I use it to CHECK. Tripping the thing by shorting it isn't a good idea, as I have fuses, and I'd need to replace the fusewire! It's a good way to make it certain in my mind that I really did pull the right fuse.

Remember SIDE

S Switch off
I Isolate
D Dump
E Earth

And THINK always.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go36jndZHas

Gotta love that posh accent!

I'm working with 240 volts, not HV! Death is very very unlikely, unless I'm up a ladder and fall a long way!

Switch off is good enough for me. Isolate is overkill, dump is irrelevant for AC mains, and earthing is just going too far.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Say it with flowers - send her a triffid.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:54:59 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/03/2012 20:12, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:07:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
I sometimes touch the live quickly by brushing it with my finger, so
if it is live I'll just get a tingle. Or touch the live and neutral
(or earth) together so if it is live then I'll just get a big spark
and blow the fuse.

That is proof that you are a first class knobhead.

No, it's a good way to check, without requiring further tools, which are
undoubtedly in a toolbox at the other end of the house.

No, it is powerfully dumb way to check.

One day you will get the wrong circuit and short out one in a place with
a high prospective fault current. The "spark" (or arc flash as it would
be) will seriously mess up your day.

Here is the effect of a short on a fake 13A plug fuse (its contains fuse
wire, but no sand to quench the arc):

http://www.bs1363.org.uk/counterfeit_fuse.mpeg

How do those glass fuses work then? They have no sand.

Now imagine that at the end of the cable as you touch those wires
together with your bare hands.

That wasn't what happened when I did it. The wires have to touch before you get the short, at which point they weld until the fuse blows in the consumer unit.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:56:53 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 10/03/2012 18:28, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:54:14 -0000, Mike Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 08:42:13 +0000
Alan wrote:

They are OK as long as you are wearing Wellington boots and keep one
hand in your pocket.

Thus ensuring that it doesn't light up when you touch it onto a live
wire, leading you to believe it's safe to work on.

Doesn't it light up using your capacitance?

And if you are capacitively coupled to something live yourself, the
potential difference across the neon and resistor is?

Hasn't ever happened to me.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

You have reached the CPX-2000 Voice Blackmail System. Your voice patterns are now being digitally encoded and stored for later use. Once this is done, our computers will be able to use the sound of YOUR voice for literally thousands of illegal and immoral purposes. There is no charge for this initial consultation. However our staff of professional extortionists will contact you in the near future to further explain the benefits of our service, and to arrange for your schedule of payment. Remember to speak clearly at the sound of the tone. Thank you.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

I've never had one not light up, even when I know I'm insulated by my
footwear.

I have. Or at least, light up too dimly to see,

Bill

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Rubber gloves.

Ones that won't let a sharp wire pierce through?!?

No, that would be impractical.

Bill

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:54:11 -0000, Bill Wright wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

I've never had one not light up, even when I know I'm insulated by my
footwear.

I have. Or at least, light up too dimly to see,

I do have good eyesight :-P

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

An actor works all his life to gain recognition.
He makes guest appearances, spends a lot for publicity people and agents etc.
Then, when he finally becomes well known, he complains he cannot go out in public anymore.