On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:01:22 -0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the
subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient lamps so
expensive. HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.

In your dreams.

In my house. I bought a load direct from the manufacturer in Hong Kong. £5 each including postage. They're brighter than the 50W halogen spots I replaced them with, I'd estimate about 75W. They consume 6.5W (I measured it).

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Some "chinese english" instructions (with software for a camera card). This is the contents of a file named "English installs the elucidation.doc", quoted in its entirety:

The high regard's customer:
How are you!
Thank youing can use the pico product of my company, and please press below the operation order install, and thank!
A,The software installs in proper order
1, install the good WIN2000 system;
2, open the software light the dish;
3, double click the SETUP.EXE
4, the model number of the choice gearing
a)PICO2000_104( PALApplication) this model number can at most support 4 roads see the frequency signal the importation
b)PICO2000_208( PALApplication) this model number can at most support 8 roads see the frequency signal the importation
c)PICO2000_416( PALApplication) this model number can at most support 16 roads see the frequency signal the importation
5, after finishing installing, three documents that light patch in the dish the catalogue descend: The msdxm.ocx, odbc32.dll, odbcint.dll beat arrives the c:\ windows\ system inside.
6, square version of usage hero , please double click the light the English Pack in the dish the document.
7, the copy resemble the regulating of appearance tone must install the VideoSetup software to proceed to regulate, install the procedure under the light dish root the catalogue VideoSetup the blank page clip setup.exe.
Plank card gearing
1.Insert the plank card arrive the main plank PCI the slot;
2.Start the calculator, and the auto install the plank card the drive to move the procedure( position:Light dish driver catalogue bottom)
Change the compression method
Beginning the ? circulate the ? the importation the " REGEDIT", and make sure the ?? enter the registration watch the editor, and open the HKEY ? CURRENT ? the USER\ software\ univision Canada Linited\ the pico2000 double click the " CODEC" can is worth this key to change to" MP42" or" IV50"
Note:
MP42 the MPEG4 compress the way (suggestion adoption MPEG4 compress way, should compress the way the compression the rate to is high)
IV50 the INDEO compress the way

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
harry writes:
Carbon filiment??????? I thought THEY went out 90-100 years ago?

They came back as horribly inefficient decorative lamps a few years
ago (were available in B&Q, and may still be).

They've always been available for laboratory use from lab suppliers,
normally for imaging their filaments through optics (e.g. pin-hole
cameras).

They have an interesting failure mode - if the glass cracks and air
gets in, they normally explode at next switch-on.

110 years old and still going...

http://www.centennialbulb.org/photos.htm#anchor1234

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

ARWadsworth wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the
subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient lamps so
expensive. HN
Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.

In your dreams.

From what I've read, there's a "bathtub" failure curve on them. Once
they've lasted a few weeks, they're fairly reliable.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their "equivalents".
Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the subsidies have
rendered the so called more efficient lamps so expensive.


HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.


Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or Luxeon LEDs).

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to LED chips
failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.


Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your choice was
limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W filament while it
worked generally behaved like any other GLS 100W filament.

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry about...

--
Tim Watts

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:01:22 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the
subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient lamps so
expensive. HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.

In your dreams.

In my house. I bought a load direct from the manufacturer in Hong Kong.
£5 each including postage. They're brighter than the 50W halogen spots I
replaced them with, I'd estimate about 75W. They consume 6.5W (I measured
it).


What make specifically (or a link to your supplier) - and have you any idea
of lifetime yet?


--
Tim Watts

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:37:19 -0000, John Williamson wrote:

ARWadsworth wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the
subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient lamps so
expensive. HN
Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.

In your dreams.

From what I've read, there's a "bathtub" failure curve on them. Once
they've lasted a few weeks, they're fairly reliable.

There are indeed a lot of ****e ones. I made the mistake of buying a flimsy looking one manufactured in the UK once. It lasted about 2 months, then a third of the LEDs went off, a couple more months and another third went off.

These ones I have now have a 5 year warranty and use the new type of LED - there are only three huge LEDs in them as opposed to 120 LEDs in the crap one I had before (which incidentally cost more!)

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Bumper sticker seen on a B-2 Stealth Bomber:
"IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THEN WE WASTED 50 BILLION BUCKS."

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:43:36 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their "equivalents".
Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the subsidies have
rendered the so called more efficient lamps so expensive.


HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.


Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or Luxeon LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to LED chips
failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool white, etc, etc. I've not seen much choice with CFL.

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your choice was
limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W filament while it
worked generally behaved like any other GLS 100W filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to damage the light socket. You are also restricted in what shades you can use when using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My kitchen has ES fittings (they were there when I moved in), but I bought some ES to BC adapters for a quid each so I can use up the free CFLs the energy companies keep giving me.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

The microwave was invented after a researcher walked by a radar
tube and a chocolate bar melted in his pocket.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:44:20 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:01:22 -0000, ARWadsworth
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the
subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient lamps so
expensive. HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.

In your dreams.

In my house. I bought a load direct from the manufacturer in Hong Kong.
£5 each including postage. They're brighter than the 50W halogen spots I
replaced them with, I'd estimate about 75W. They consume 6.5W (I measured
it).


What make specifically (or a link to your supplier) - and have you any idea
of lifetime yet?

Bought on 15th November last year, used a lot since then as this room has pathetic natural light so I use them all day, still going strong. They have a 5 year warranty.

They took 4 days to arrive from China (I miss-remembered it as Hong Kong).

This is the supplier - he says he's the manufacturer:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/jack.wang2...&_trksid=p3686

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Times are tough.
Just the other day, I saw a beggar who was so broke that he was standing on the corner shouting at the cars that went by.
He was shouting, "WILL WORK FOR CARDBOARD AND A MAGIC MARKER!"

NT wrote:
[snip]

Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the subsidies have
rendered the so called more efficient lamps so expensive.

The TCO of CFLs works out cheaper

Have you added in the cost of the spectacles that you will need after your
eyesight has been ruined by the CFLs?

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:43:36 -0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their "equivalents".
Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the subsidies have
rendered the so called more efficient lamps so expensive.


HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.


Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or Luxeon
LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

Good - you shoudl be OK then (assuming it's not a rip off).

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to LED chips
failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool white, etc, etc.
I've not seen much choice with CFL.

I said Index (CRI if you want to be pedantic), not colour temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your choice was
limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W filament while it
worked generally behaved like any other GLS 100W filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to damage
the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

You are also restricted in what shades you can use when
using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My point being we've gone from a simple choice of one main fitting (not
counting tubes), not to 2 or 3 to suit smaller fittings, but half a dozen
just for mains direct drive:

BC
SBC
ES
SES
GU10
G9

ELV is just as bad

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin, 2D
4pin, GX53

It's mad...


My kitchen has ES fittings (they were there when I moved in), but I bought
some ES to BC adapters for a quid each so I can use up the free CFLs the
energy companies keep giving me.

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:43:36 -0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now
the subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient
lamps so expensive.


HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on,
50,000 hour life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually
no heat produced, virtually no electricity used.


Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or
Luxeon LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

Good - you shoudl be OK then (assuming it's not a rip off).

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to
LED chips failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool white, etc,
etc. I've not seen much choice with CFL.

I said Index (CRI if you want to be pedantic), not colour temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your
choice was limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W
filament while it worked generally behaved like any other GLS
100W filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to
damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

You are also restricted in what shades you can use when
using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry
about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My point being we've gone from a simple choice of one main fitting
(not counting tubes), not to 2 or 3 to suit smaller fittings, but
half a dozen just for mains direct drive:

BC
SBC
ES
SES
GU10
G9

ELV is just as bad

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin,
2D 4pin, GX53

It's mad...

So are women. Have you seen all different fittings they offer:-)?

--
Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:43:36 -0000, Tim
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their
"equivalents". Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now
the subsidies have rendered the so called more efficient
lamps so expensive.


HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on,
50,000 hour life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually
no heat produced, virtually no electricity used.


Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or
Luxeon LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

Good - you shoudl be OK then (assuming it's not a rip off).

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to
LED chips failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool white, etc,
etc. I've not seen much choice with CFL.

I said Index (CRI if you want to be pedantic), not colour temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your
choice was limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W
filament while it worked generally behaved like any other GLS
100W filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to
damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

You are also restricted in what shades you can use when
using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry
about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My point being we've gone from a simple choice of one main fitting
(not counting tubes), not to 2 or 3 to suit smaller fittings, but
half a dozen just for mains direct drive:

BC
SBC
ES
SES
GU10
G9

ELV is just as bad

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin,
2D 4pin, GX53

It's mad...

So are women. Have you seen all different fittings they offer:-)?

I thought the idea was that one standard plug would fit any of three
sockets available unless I've been doing something wrong all these years!

Bob Minchin wrote:

So are women. Have you seen all different fittings they offer:-)?

I thought the idea was that one standard plug would fit any of three
sockets available unless I've been doing something wrong all these
years!

Lesbians have non standard sockets.

--
Adam

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:00:56 -0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

ARWadsworth wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:43:36 -0000, Tim
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:



Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or
Luxeon LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

Good - you shoudl be OK then (assuming it's not a rip off).

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to
LED chips failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool white, etc,
etc. I've not seen much choice with CFL.

I said Index (CRI if you want to be pedantic), not colour temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your
choice was limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W
filament while it worked generally behaved like any other GLS
100W filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to
damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

You are also restricted in what shades you can use when
using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry
about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My point being we've gone from a simple choice of one main fitting
(not counting tubes), not to 2 or 3 to suit smaller fittings, but
half a dozen just for mains direct drive:

BC
SBC
ES
SES
GU10
G9

ELV is just as bad

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin,
2D 4pin, GX53

It's mad...

So are women. Have you seen all different fittings they offer:-)?

I thought the idea was that one standard plug would fit any of three
sockets available unless I've been doing something wrong all these years!

This had me in fits of laughter.


--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Can you be a closet claustrophobic?

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:06:13 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Bob Minchin wrote:

So are women. Have you seen all different fittings they offer:-)?

I thought the idea was that one standard plug would fit any of three
sockets available unless I've been doing something wrong all these
years!

Lesbians have non standard sockets.

Same sockets, different signals.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:43:46 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:43:36 -0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 20:41:10 -0000, wrote:

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their "equivalents".
Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the subsidies have
rendered the so called more efficient lamps so expensive.


HN

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000 hour
life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat produced,
virtually no electricity used.


Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or Luxeon
LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

Good - you should be OK then (assuming it's not a rip off).

The seller appears to have a good reputation (unusual for a Chinese seller), and he did say there was a 5 year guarantee.

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can look forward to LED chips
failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool white, etc, etc.
I've not seen much choice with CFL.

I said Index (CRI if you want to be pedantic), not colour temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

Oh that. I'm not having a problem with these. Everything appears the same as daylight. CFLs were awful.

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your choice was
limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W filament while it
worked generally behaved like any other GLS 100W filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to damage
the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

Strange. Any that are down-facing (eg a normal pendant light) go brittle that I've seen.

You are also restricted in what shades you can use when
using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My point being we've gone from a simple choice of one main fitting (not
counting tubes), not to 2 or 3 to suit smaller fittings, but half a dozen
just for mains direct drive:

BC
SBC
ES
SES
GU10
G9

I stick to GU10 and BC. I do have ES and SES from existing fittings in the house and some cupboard lighting.

ELV is just as bad

Do you mean low voltage? I've not seen the point in low voltage lighting at all, all you're doing is adding the requirement for a transformer and more wiring.

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin, 2D
4pin, GX53

It's mad...

I try to avoid those ones. I don't want to be stuck with fluorescent.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Can you be a closet claustrophobic?

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:06:13 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Bob Minchin wrote:

So are women. Have you seen all different fittings they
offer:-)?

I thought the idea was that one standard plug would fit any of
three sockets available unless I've been doing something wrong
all these years!

Lesbians have non standard sockets.

Same sockets, different signals.

:-)

--
Adam

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

8

Standard filament lamps - it makes almost no difference to life
how frequently they're switched.

That is untrue, tungsten filament lamps wear out far quicker if you keep
switching them on and off.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Even the best cfls are crap for those with poor sight though. I suspect
its the choice of frequencies in the phosphor or the flicker effect.

LEDs seem better.
Brian

I suspect its the diffuse source making the shadows less distinct and hence
reducing edge contrast that makes it worse for people with poor eyesight.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:43:46 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to

damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

Good grief how have you managed to avoid that? Never used tungsten
bulbs?

Daughters beside lamp failed the other night, the "bakerlite" lugs
for the bayonet had just broken, weakened by the heat.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Mike Barnes writes:
Andrew Gabriel :
The issue of "equivalents" seems to be being corrected - I notice
that 18W CFL's are no longer incorrectly quoted as 100W equivalent.

I look forward to a sensible world, where the brightness was specified
as the light *output*, shortly after switching on (say 3 seconds), when
half its rated life has elapsed.

Never going to happen, is it? Slimy *******s.

It's already in EU law, but not yet in national laws.
It will require lamp packaging to list the Lumen output
instead of the power rating. I'm not pleased that the
power rating will no longer be required though. The
lighting industry argued that the public was confused
by the power rating and its request to remove it from
packaging was granted. Power rating must still be
available from manufacturers (e.g. datasheets, web, etc),
but won't be required at point of sale.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article om,
"dennis@home" writes:


"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

8

Standard filament lamps - it makes almost no difference to life
how frequently they're switched.

That is untrue, tungsten filament lamps wear out far quicker if you keep
switching them on and off.

Not true for Standard filament lamps - don't confuse the tendancy
to die at switch-on with a reduction in lamp life due to switching;
there is virtually none and it's a common misconception. What happens
is that for the last ~5 or so hours of life, the lamp won't survive
a switch-on, so if it's on for less than 5 hours at a time, its
end-of-life failure will be at a switch-on.

Some geometry of halogens (larger ones) can be impacted by switching
(those where the quartz envelope doesn't get up to operating temperature
during the "on" time), which is why I specifically said Standard filament
lamps.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 3/4/2012 8:43 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to damage
the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

I have. Three pendant sockets - they were like that when we moved in.
But I suspect the previous owner had used heat lamps in them.

In article op.wang0kfqytk5n5@i7-940,
"Lieutenant Scott" writes:

Do you mean low voltage? I've not seen the point in low voltage lighting at all, all you're doing is adding the requirement for a transformer and more wiring.

12V halogens are at least twice as efficient as mains halogens.
Also, the smaller light source (filament) means you can design
the optics to direct the beam exactly where you want it much
more accurately, so there's a much wider range of beam angles
available, and less light spillage (wastage) where it's not
wanted. (LEDs can be even better in this respect.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:30:18 -0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article op.wang0kfqytk5n5@i7-940,
"Lieutenant Scott" writes:

Do you mean low voltage? I've not seen the point in low voltage lighting at all, all you're doing is adding the requirement for a transformer and more wiring.

12V halogens are at least twice as efficient as mains halogens.
Also, the smaller light source (filament) means you can design
the optics to direct the beam exactly where you want it much
more accurately, so there's a much wider range of beam angles
available, and less light spillage (wastage) where it's not
wanted. (LEDs can be even better in this respect.)

Sounds good in theory, but I can't say I've noticed that low voltage lighting looks any better!

Now we're using LEDs, it isn't required anyway :-)

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Confuscious say: "Man who lives in glass house should change in basement."

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 11:20:42 +0000, Alan wrote:

In message , Tim Watts
wrote

I have had consistently good results from Prolite spirals over the last 3
years.

My experience with that brand
http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/bulb/

My experience with 'daylight' Prolite: buzzed, stank and poor output. Got a
full refund OK.
Pity really, as they were what I was after according to the blurb.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In message , Tim Watts
wrote
Alan wrote:

In message , Tim Watts
wrote

I have had consistently good results from Prolite spirals over the last 3
years.

My experience with that brand
http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/bulb/

How many blew up out of how many did you try?

A sample of one/one can be bad luck. One of mine was DoA but was replaced
for free.


I purchased 3 and two died within 18 months of minimal use.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

PeterC wrote:

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 11:20:42 +0000, Alan wrote:

In message , Tim Watts
wrote

I have had consistently good results from Prolite spirals over the last 3
years.

My experience with that brand
http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/bulb/

My experience with 'daylight' Prolite: buzzed, stank and poor output. Got
a full refund OK.
Pity really, as they were what I was after according to the blurb.

It's really weird as I've had about 15 of them for building site lighting,
all 25-30W BC. One DoA (replaced), 3 got broken, and about 4-5 have died of
natural causes after something like 2+years permanantly on - of those that
died, I think 2 actually died and the rest were dimming and going brown/grey
so they got canned.

I get mine from Lampspecs - not that that should make any difference, unless
there are fakes kicking around.

I've had GE branded CFLs which have been ****e - but the worst brand which
turned out not to be worth a spit was "Your" or "You" of something like that
(some chinese brand).
--
Tim Watts

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...

8

Not true for Standard filament lamps - don't confuse the tendancy
to die at switch-on with a reduction in lamp life due to switching;
there is virtually none and it's a common misconception. What happens
is that for the last ~5 or so hours of life, the lamp won't survive
a switch-on, so if it's on for less than 5 hours at a time, its
end-of-life failure will be at a switch-on.

Thermal shock each time you switch the lamp on will reduce its life.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:43:46 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to

damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

Good grief how have you managed to avoid that? Never used tungsten
bulbs?

Daughters beside lamp failed the other night, the "bakerlite" lugs
for the bayonet had just broken, weakened by the heat.


Really - no.

Yep - some of the pendant shade fitting rings had got a bit brown and in one
or two cases, a bit crunchy - but I genuinely do not recall actual socket
failure. I would not dispute it happens - but I never found it a common
problem :|

--
Tim Watts

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:43:46 -0000, Tim Watts

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

Strange. Any that are down-facing (eg a normal pendant light) go brittle
that I've seen.

Up, down and sideways over 40 years, 4 houses.



I stick to GU10 and BC. I do have ES and SES from existing fittings in
the house and some cupboard lighting.

My thinking too. BC for regular, and GU10 for spots. We have a couple of SES
table lamps but the damn things are nearly impossible to avoid.

ELV is just as bad

Do you mean low voltage?

Yes. In engineering speak, "Low Voltage" means less than 1000VAC or 1500VDC
between conductors or 600VAC/900VDC to earth (IIRC). So they invented "Extra
Low Voltage" to stand for what normal people call low voltage

I've not seen the point in low voltage lighting
at all, all you're doing is adding the requirement for a transformer and
more wiring.

Good for certain installation zones which is why I have one (shower). I
would also use it for soffit lighting if I had any as that's the one other
place it's likely to get a good soaking.


Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin, 2D
4pin, GX53

It's mad...

I try to avoid those ones. I don't want to be stuck with fluorescent.

I'm using a few 2D commercial fittings (simple, white, round, not too big)
for the kids bedrooms and the hall. The bedroom deployment is a separate
circuit to give a good strong daylight effect over a desk as both rooms are
north facing.

I figure an all white fitting with a white diffuser will tend to go
unnoticed against a white ceiling - I'll see how right I am - but I'm not
too bothered as this is a clear "function over form" scenario. Their "main"
lighting is chrome, dimmable, and SWMBO approved.


It's occured to me that for a few places I said I wanted downlighters with
LEDs for nightlighting or to sort out dark corners, I don't necessarily need
true downlighters. I actually don't really like them anyway - I've just got
programmed into defaulting to them because everyone else does.

So I'm off to look for a very small discrete inexpensive fitting now and see
what gives.

Sockets are so much easier: "what colour dear?", "white's OK", "then I'll
use blah brand as they seem good..."

Cheers

Tim


--
Tim Watts

Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry about...

Yes, what is it with this screw-in **** that seems to be creeping in?


Europeans...

--
Tim Watts

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 17:48:41 -0000, Tim Watts wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:43:46 -0000, Tim Watts

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

Strange. Any that are down-facing (eg a normal pendant light) go brittle
that I've seen.

Up, down and sideways over 40 years, 4 houses.

Must be bloody good light fittings then - brass? The plastic ones go brittle if they have a 100W in them.

I stick to GU10 and BC. I do have ES and SES from existing fittings in
the house and some cupboard lighting.

My thinking too. BC for regular, and GU10 for spots. We have a couple of SES
table lamps but the damn things are nearly impossible to avoid.

They seem to be making LEDs in all fittings now anyway - not in supermarkets so much, but on ebay and mail order companies.

ELV is just as bad

Do you mean low voltage?

Yes. In engineering speak, "Low Voltage" means less than 1000VAC or 1500VDC
between conductors or 600VAC/900VDC to earth (IIRC). So they invented "Extra
Low Voltage" to stand for what normal people call low voltage

Oh.... I shoulda known that, having done engineering in my degree :-)

I've not seen the point in low voltage lighting
at all, all you're doing is adding the requirement for a transformer and
more wiring.

Good for certain installation zones which is why I have one (shower). I
would also use it for soffit lighting if I had any as that's the one other
place it's likely to get a good soaking.

Unless you put the light IN the shower cubicle, I don't see it necessary to be quite that careful.

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin, 2D
4pin, GX53

It's mad...

I try to avoid those ones. I don't want to be stuck with fluorescent..

I'm using a few 2D commercial fittings (simple, white, round, not too big)
for the kids bedrooms and the hall. The bedroom deployment is a separate
circuit to give a good strong daylight effect over a desk as both rooms are
north facing.

I love really bright light, much easier to see and easier to think what you're doing! Before LEDs I got some "biobulb" CFLs which made a proper white light instead of the weak yellow crap you get from most CFLs. Trouble is they lasted only 6 months, and in fact 2 of the 10 caught fire (well smoked). Not sure if they would have caught fire if I hadn't been there to switch them off.

I figure an all white fitting with a white diffuser will tend to go
unnoticed against a white ceiling - I'll see how right I am - but I'm not
too bothered as this is a clear "function over form" scenario. Their "main"
lighting is chrome, dimmable, and SWMBO approved.

ROFL!!! "SWMBO approved" - that should be on documentation along with the electrical safety approvals.

I like brass coloured fittings where possible. I think chrome looks cheaper. I suppose I associate brass with gold and chrome with silver. A silver medal is only 2nd place :-)

It's occured to me that for a few places I said I wanted downlighters with
LEDs for nightlighting or to sort out dark corners, I don't necessarily need
true downlighters. I actually don't really like them anyway - I've just got
programmed into defaulting to them because everyone else does.

For corners I have compact ceiling mounted spots, which I aim into the corners of the room.

So I'm off to look for a very small discrete inexpensive fitting now and see
what gives.

Sockets are so much easier: "what colour dear?", "white's OK", "then I'll
use blah brand as they seem good..."

WHITE? UGH. I have brass. I managed to get a pack of 10 double brass sockets for £20 on ebay, brand new in packets. B&Q wanted £12 EACH!

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

If you're bothered by a god-botherer, does that make you god?

Robin wrote:

For fluorescent lamps, it is 3 hours "on" per switching.
I presume CFLs are the same, but I don't know that for sure.

I think that for CFLs it effectively assumes for the survival factor 2
hours if the start-up time is less than 0.3 seconds. That's due to
improve to 1 hour. This and a lot else about required perfomance is
specified for CFLs in Annex II, Table 4 to Commission Regulation (EC)
No 244/2009. And yes I am very sad that I could be bothered to look
up the source.

In practice they can be viable even when they arent on for anything like that long.

I used to use an incandescent for the bed head and those never did last all that long.

Then when I automated the lighting system in the house, I used a soft
start for that light, because that was free once the light was automated.

And I chose to have it come on at reduced intensity so that when you
turn it on in the middle of the night etc, you dont get dazzled by it. The
combination of those two saw the incandescent bulbs last for a very time.

Then my country, Australia, was actually stupid enough to ban
normal incandescent bulbs. And the electricity supply operation
handed out a box of free CFLs to anyone who wanted a box of them.

So I put one of them there, just to see how long they lasted, so I could see
if I needed to have a stash of incandescents that would last as long as I did.

Turns out that the CFLs last just as long as the incandescents do and
since they are a much softer light, you dont need bother to dim them
when you turn them on in the middle of the night etc. The light normally
isnt on for more than a few minutes every time its turned on, I dont
read in bed anymore, I prefer to read not in bed now.

I almost always get up in the dark, even in summer.

Tim Watts wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry
about...

Yes, what is it with this screw-in **** that seems to be creeping
in?


Europeans...

IKEA........

--
Adam

Tim Watts wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
Tim Watts wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote
-0000, wrote

I see a few places are stocking 100W incandescent bulbs again.

I thought they had been banned under EU regs.

Personally I welcome them. They are brighter than their "equivalents".
Instant on, and a hell of a lot cheaper now the subsidies have rendered
the so called more efficient lamps so expensive.

Get an LED lamp and stop using the CFL ****. Instant on, 50,000
hour life, bright, any tone of white you want, virtually no heat
produced, virtually no electricity used.

Possibly, if you buy a decent brand (eg with Cree, Nichia or Luxeon LEDs).

It's Cree I have.

Good - you shoudl be OK then (assuming it's not a rip off).

If you buy cheap chinese crap from B&Q, you can
look forward to LED chips failing in short order.

Also the colour index is even more a minefield than CFLS.

Nonsense. With LEDs you can choose warm white, cool
white, etc, etc. I've not seen much choice with CFL.

I said Index (CRI if you want to be pedantic), not colour temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

Filaments were so much simpler - no dimmer problems, and your
choice was limited to crap vs OK vis a vis lifetime. A GLS 100W
filament while it worked generally behaved like any other GLS 100W
filament.

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

I have, tho not much now that I changed the high power ones over to ES floods.

You are also restricted in what shades you can use when
using 100W ones (and even 60W).

And in the old days, we mostly only had BC fittings to worry about...

BC is a bit big and clumsy in my spotlights.

My point being we've gone from a simple choice of one
main fitting (not counting tubes), not to 2 or 3 to suit
smaller fittings, but half a dozen just for mains direct drive:

BC
SBC
ES
SES
GU10
G9

Yeah, much more of a mess than it used to be.

ELV is just as bad

Then there's various fluorescent fittings T4,T5,PLS,PLC,PLT, 2D 2pin, 2D 4pin, GX53

It's mad...

Yep.

My kitchen has ES fittings (they were there when I moved in),
but I bought some ES to BC adapters for a quid each so I can
use up the free CFLs the energy companies keep giving me.

Ours give you a choice, you can have either.

dennis@home wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

Even the best cfls are crap for those with poor sight though. I suspect its the choice of frequencies in the
phosphor or the flicker effect.

LEDs seem better.

I suspect its the diffuse source making the shadows less distinct and hence reducing edge contrast that makes it worse
for people with poor eyesight.

Dunno, they arent really any more diffuse than a normal frosted incandescent.

I doubt too many use the clear incandescents for that.

Andrew Gabriel wrote
dennis@home wrote
Andrew Gabriel wrote

Standard filament lamps - it makes almost no
difference to life how frequently they're switched.

That is untrue, tungsten filament lamps wear out
far quicker if you keep switching them on and off.

Not true for Standard filament lamps

Yes it is. The start current is much higher than the running
current and thats what reduces the life of the filament.

The reason the start current is much higher than the running
current is because the filament temperature is much lower
at the start and so the resistance is much lower.

And the evidence that that is what affects the life of the bulb
is that if you start it slowly with an electronic controller that starts
it at lower current with a dimmer, the bulb lasts noticeably longer.

- don't confuse the tendancy to die at switch-on with a reduction in lamp life
due to switching; there is virtually none and it's a common misconception.

Yours is in fact.

What happens is that for the last ~5 or so hours of life, the
lamp won't survive a switch-on, so if it's on for less than 5
hours at a time, its end-of-life failure will be at a switch-on.

I dont believe that there is any universal 5 hour figure on that.

Some geometry of halogens (larger ones) can be impacted
by switching (those where the quartz envelope doesn't get
up to operating temperature during the "on" time), which is
why I specifically said Standard filament lamps.

Those are however the ones with very thin filaments which even
see a physical jerk in the filament due to the high current at start.

Sure, there is also the other effect where there is some evaporation
of the filament when its running, but thats not a major effect with
normal nitrogen filled modern lamps. Its the high start surge that
does have a real effect on bulb life.

S Viemeister wrote
Tim Watts wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Filaments use a fortune in electricity and are very hot so tend to damage the light socket.

What?? I have never seen a heat damaged lamp socket.

I have. Three pendant sockets - they were like that when we moved in.
But I suspect the previous owner had used heat lamps in them.

You dont have to use heat lamps in them, just have them vertical
and have high power bulbs in them, and low quality bakelite sockets.

There is a reason you can buy ceramic sockets, particularly in ES format.

Andrew Gabriel wrote
Lieutenant Scott wrote

Do you mean low voltage? I've not seen the point in
low voltage lighting at all, all you're doing is adding the
requirement for a transformer and more wiring.

12V halogens are at least twice as efficient as mains halogens.

Sure, but you have to allow for the lousy efficiency that
the transformer produces too when used in a house.

Also, the smaller light source (filament) means you can design
the optics to direct the beam exactly where you want it much
more accurately, so there's a much wider range of beam angles
available, and less light spillage (wastage) where it's not
wanted. (LEDs can be even better in this respect.)

And the 12V bulbs have much more solid/rugged filaments too.