This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

On Jun 17, 2:09*pm, Fredxx wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.


NT

"Tabby" wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, Fredxx wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and its far
better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures for different
times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do that. Ours, a
Towerstat is fairly simple considering how many functions it has and is
battery powered, however the display is quite small so its probably not very
old lady friendly.

Mike

MuddyMike wrote:
"Tabby" wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, Fredxx wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.

--
Adam

On Jun 17, 4:03*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
MuddyMike wrote:
"Tabby" wrote in message
....
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, Fredxx wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I found that different temps at different times was no use. Either I
wanted the heating comfortable, or didnt want it on at all. Bimetal
stats are far easier to use, far more reliable, and far cheaper.


NT

On 17/06/2011 15:40, Tabby wrote:
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.


The programmer is close to the floor in an inaccessible location. The
result is the house is hot 24/7. So a programmable thermostat is ideal
for her.

I want at least a background temperature at night, a setting for the day
which can be overridden when she's out to a background temperature
setting again. I don't think she really needs a 5/2 or 7 day setting.
Just 2 or 3 timezones in a day.

On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

Tabby wrote:

I found that different temps at different times was no use. Either I
wanted the heating comfortable, or didnt want it on at all. Bimetal
stats are far easier to use, far more reliable, and far cheaper.


NT

Horses for courses as they say. I like having it warm first thing in the
morning, lower during the day, higher again for the evening and just
ticking over at night. To say they're equivalent to a manual type is crazy!

Fredxx wrote:
On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never found one
that is easy for most elderly customers to use.


--
Adam

On 17/06/2011 16:25, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)


Unless you have a very high frost setting on a frost-stat, there'd be no
background heat at night. Each to their own. It's also good to see
what the actual temperature is and the demand temperature without fiddling.

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never found one
that is easy for most elderly customers to use.


Hence my question on any that are the best of the bunch.

Fredxx wrote:
It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)


Unless you have a very high frost setting on a frost-stat, there'd be
no background heat at night. Each to their own. It's also good to
see what the actual temperature is and the demand temperature without
fiddling.

Indeed, each to their own. I have never found a need for background heat at
night in my home. Of course this could easily be added with a second stat.

Actually knowing the background temperature and the setpoint temperature
just leaves people slaves to the programmable stat (or in the case of my
elderly customers buggering about with them all day).

If I am cold I turn the stat up, if I am hot I turn it down. And depending
upon what I am doing I want a different temperature every day.

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never
found one that is easy for most elderly customers to use.


Hence my question on any that are the best of the bunch.

None of them IMHO:-)

And I did say most elderly customers. I have had some customers who took the
the programmable stat like a duck to water, however they could have worked
ANY programmable stat.

--
Adam

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...
MuddyMike wrote:
"Tabby" wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, Fredxx wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


Each to their own. One big advantage of the programmable room stat is that
it can be set at a low temperature for night time, a medium temp for during
the day, and a higher temp for mornings and evenings. It then just does it
without having to keep making adjustments. If we do want a different setting
for a short period its as easy as turning a traditional stat up or down, but
with the knowledge that after that time period it will return to its normal
settings. Now that is far more useful than a standard bimetal stat.

Mike

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:17:15 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat
and
programmer dont do.

Disagree, we'd be for ever (or rather not thus wasting fuel) tweaking
a manual stat. Once set up for the normal pattern of life it's fit
and forget. We have ours set for 18.5C during the day with a little
boost to 20C in the evenings and overnight set at 15C.

A manual stat would not get adjusted, except perhaps up to 25C by the
females in the house (it heats quicker the higher you set the
stat...). So until I tweaked it back down we'd be heating to that
temp for 10hrs/day when 18.5 is fine. Why bother with the agro when a
box can do it automagically?

The heating is never switched off, it's always on via the stat. There
is a solid stone wall weighing it at about 20 tonnes right through
the middle of the house. If that gets cold it takes days to heat back
up and the house become comfortable again.

I want at least a background temperature at night, a setting for the day
which can be overridden when she's out to a background temperature
setting again. I don't think she really needs a 5/2 or 7 day setting.
Just 2 or 3 timezones in a day.

I doubt you'll find a 24hr only programmable stat, there isn't any
need for it. Just get a 7 day(*) and set all the days to follow the
same pattern. Ours has a "copy" function so once one day is setup you
can just copy those settings to other days.

(*) 5/2 are fine *if* the 5/2 happens to match your life style, 7 day
is much more flexable.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jun 17, 4:59*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.

I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)

Unless you have a very high frost setting on a frost-stat, there'd be
no background heat at night. *Each to their own. *It's also good to
see what the actual temperature is and the demand temperature without
fiddling.

Indeed, each to their own. I have never found a need for background heat at
night in my home. Of course this could easily be added with a second stat..

Actually knowing the background temperature and the setpoint temperature
just leaves people slaves to the programmable stat (or in the case of my
elderly customers buggering about with them all day).

If I am cold I turn the stat up, if I am hot I turn it down. And depending
upon what I am doing I want a different temperature every day.

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never
found one that is easy for most elderly customers to use.

Hence my question on any that are the best of the bunch.

None of them IMHO:-)

And I did say most elderly customers. I have had some customers who took the
the programmable stat like a duck to water, however they could have worked
ANY programmable stat.

Bimetal stats dont give any night time background heat if you set them
to not do so. If your insulation is so bad that you need it, you can
set them to stay on at night, and either turn them down when wanted or
add a 2nd stat to do it automatically. I'd be more inclined to add
insulation though.


NT

On Jun 17, 4:17*pm, Fredxx wrote:
On 17/06/2011 15:40, Tabby wrote:

On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, *wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

The programmer is close to the floor in an inaccessible location. *The
result is the house is hot 24/7. *So a programmable thermostat is ideal
for her.

I want at least a background temperature at night, a setting for the day
which can be overridden when she's out to a background temperature
setting again. *I don't think she really needs a 5/2 or 7 day setting.
Just 2 or 3 timezones in a day.

If its inaccesible, working a digital stat will be impossible. At
least with a bimetal you can do it blind. Surely the only sensible
solution is to move it.


NT

On Jun 17, 4:25*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
snip
Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never found one
that is easy for most elderly customers to use.

I'd tend to agree with that - I use a programmable thermostat myself
(I was intending to replace the thermostat anyway, and when the
programmer failed it was easier to replace the thermostat mounted in a
convenient position with a programmable one and leave the inaccessible
programmer set to constant...) but I didn't even think of
recommending my Mother get one when she was having the system
upgraded.

--

Mike

On 17/06/2011 17:32, Tabby wrote:
On Jun 17, 4:17 pm, wrote:
On 17/06/2011 15:40, Tabby wrote:

On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

The programmer is close to the floor in an inaccessible location. The
result is the house is hot 24/7. So a programmable thermostat is ideal
for her.

I want at least a background temperature at night, a setting for the day
which can be overridden when she's out to a background temperature
setting again. I don't think she really needs a 5/2 or 7 day setting.
Just 2 or 3 timezones in a day.

If its inaccesible, working a digital stat will be impossible. At
least with a bimetal you can do it blind. Surely the only sensible
solution is to move it.


NT

The current thermostat is already in a convenient eye-level location,
the programmer isn't. If it wasn't I would purchase a wireless solution
instead.

Tabby wrote:
On Jun 17, 4:03 pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
MuddyMike wrote:
"Tabby" wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, Fredxx wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat and
programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I found that different temps at different times was no use. Either I
wanted the heating comfortable, or didnt want it on at all. Bimetal
stats are far easier to use, far more reliable, and far cheaper.

But often far slower to respond than digital stats - allowing several
degrees 'over' and several degrees 'under' before switching. I often found
with my old bi-metal stat that I was either too hot or too cold. I've now
got a digital programmable stat and it maintains a comfortable set
temperature far more accurately.

--
Kev

ARWadsworth wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple
as possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would
be preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there
isn't a permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat
and programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different temperatures
for different times of the day no standard stat + programmer can do
that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never
found one that is easy for most elderly customers to use.

The one that I have is very efficient - but every time I want to set it, for
example to be off for a week away, and come back on the day we return, I
have to get the instruction manual out and spend a fair bit of time fiddling
with it. It's quite complex and I agree would be wholly unsuitable for an
elderly person (although I'm 64!).

--
Kev

Ret. wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple
as possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would
be preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there
isn't a permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat
and programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different
temperatures for different times of the day no standard stat +
programmer can do that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never
found one that is easy for most elderly customers to use.

The one that I have is very efficient - but every time I want to set
it, for example to be off for a week away, and come back on the day
we return, I have to get the instruction manual out and spend a fair
bit of time fiddling with it. It's quite complex and I agree would be
wholly unsuitable for an elderly person (although I'm 64!).

Well the easy answer is to book more holidays. That would give you more
experience with the holiday settings on your programmer and save having to
get the manual out:-)


--
Adam

On Jun 17, 6:48*pm, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
Ret. wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
*wrote:
*wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, *wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple
as possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would
be preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there
isn't a permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one and
fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal stat
and programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat and
its far better than the old dial one. We set different
temperatures for different times of the day no standard stat +
programmer can do that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.

I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never
found one that is easy for most elderly customers to use.

The one that I have is very efficient - but every time I want to set
it, for example to be off for a week away, and come back on the day
we return, I have to get the instruction manual out and spend a fair
bit of time fiddling with it. It's quite complex and I agree would be
wholly unsuitable for an elderly person (although I'm 64!).

Well the easy answer is to book more holidays. That would give you more
experience with the holiday settings on your programmer and save having to
get the manual out:-)

--
Adam- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I love my programmable stat. It doesn't need to be fiddled with once
it is set. Should I feel the need for a bit extra heat it is only a
matter of pressing the "up" button. The programme will revert at the
next timed event. No danger of a forgetful person leaving it set on
full heat. Also no risk of getting too cold in the night as could be
the case using a programmer.
I would go down the route of fitting one and setting it carefully in
discussion with the lady - agree times and temps - then go back after
a few days to see if any setting need to be tweaked.
Many people with bi-metal types end up using them as an on/off switch
and rarely let the ting work properly.

In article , Fredxx scribeth
thus
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

Course arrange to go there as and when to change the batteries wontcha;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:09:33 +0100, Fredxx wrote:


Any recommended makes and models?

Honeywell CM907

As with most programmable thermostats setting it up is a shade tedious
but it has several significant advantages in use compared with the
bent metal devices. Firstly the hysterisis is low so it maintains
room temperature well. It also alters the heating on and off times
depending upon room temperature so doing a good job of matching the
required heat profile so it will rarely need to be played with.

Secondly, once set properly if it does need to be altered it is very
easy to manually raise or lower the temperature for that time period
and afterwards it will revert to the program settings. With manual
thermostats the user has to remember to lower them. Some people seem
to think thermostats control the rate of heating and turn them higher
"so the room heats up quickly". This leads to the average temperature
in the house creeping upwards and fuel bills doing likewise.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:17:57 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I doubt you'll find a 24hr only programmable stat, there isn't any
need for it.

Honeywell CM901 (wired)
Honeywell CM921 (wireless)


--

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:07:28 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

I assume that these things control the rads directly, i.e. they turn the
TRV on/off as they think the need arises?

Er, no not in the context of this thread so far that is. I think you
can get things that do do what you suggest.

This thread is about a normal programmable thermostat. Generally they
are just a replacement for the traditional bimetal mechanical
thermostat.

What they offer is a temperature profile through the day. For example
at night it will have a set point of say 15C, then in the morning it
could have 19C for a couple of hours then drop back to 15C when
everyone is at work through the day, back up to 18 when the kids come
home and 21C for slobing out infront of the telly after dinner.

They also have a much lower temp range when switching in either
direction (off to on or on to off). Ours keeps the room to the set
point within about 0.5C (1C range), a mechnical stat would be doing
well to keep the room within 2C (4C range) of its set point.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Jun 17, 10:01*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:07:28 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:
I assume that these things control the rads directly, i.e. they turn the
TRV on/off as they think the need arises?

Er, no not in the context of this thread so far that is. I think you
can get things that do do what you suggest.

This thread is about a normal programmable thermostat. Generally they
are just a replacement for the traditional bimetal mechanical
thermostat.

What they offer is a temperature profile through the day. For example
at night it will have a set point of say 15C, then in the morning it
could have 19C for a couple of hours then drop back to 15C when
everyone is at work through the day, back up to 18 when the kids come
home and 21C for slobing out infront of the telly after dinner.

They also have a much lower temp range when switching in either
direction (off to on or on to off). Ours keeps the room to the set
point within about 0.5C (1C range), *a mechnical stat would be doing
well to keep the room within 2C (4C range) of its set point.

--
Cheers
Dave.


For an elderly person this is important - if it is set and left alone
then surely this is a good thing. One doesn't want an elderly person
turning the thermostat down too low. Mine is set to 17C through the
night - however, it rarely switches on. If it does - then I am pleased
as the house soon gets up to temp at getting up time.

In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:07:28 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

I assume that these things control the rads directly, i.e. they
turn the TRV on/off as they think the need arises?
Er, no not in the context of this thread so far that is. I think you
can get things that do do what you suggest.
This thread is about a normal programmable thermostat. Generally
they
are just a replacement for the traditional bimetal mechanical
thermostat.
What they offer is a temperature profile through the day. For
example
at night it will have a set point of say 15C, then in the morning it
could have 19C for a couple of hours then drop back to 15C when
everyone is at work through the day, back up to 18 when the kids come
home and 21C for slobing out infront of the telly after dinner.

So is each of these just working by turning the boiler on/off then? If
they're not controlling the TRVs, and a thermostat wants to say "That's
enough heat in this room thanks", what if another wants the boiler on?
Or are they separate heating circuits each with its own shutoff valve
and separate pipework?


There would normally be just one, it's just a replacement for a single
temp room stat. Though they can be used to control zone valves etc. if
you want, but that isn't waht is being talked about here
--
Chris French

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:17:15 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 17/06/2011 15:40, Tabby wrote:
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?
....
I want at least a background temperature at night, a setting for the day
which can be overridden when she's out to a background temperature
setting again. I don't think she really needs a 5/2 or 7 day setting.
Just 2 or 3 timezones in a day.

The Honeywell CM9xx series is the most old-lady-friendly I've used.
I don't think there's any progstat which is particularly non-techie-
friendly to set up but the Honeywells are pretty easy to use, even if all
you do is poke the up or down buttons to adjust the temperature for a
while.

Their 1-day models are the CM901 (wired) and 921 (wireless).
There are also 7-day types: Cm907 and 927 respectively.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Never believe anyone who claims to be a liar

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:53:57 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

So is each of these just working by turning the boiler on/off then?

"These" being a traditional mechanical stat and a programable stat?
Then yes they control the boiler.

If they're not controlling the TRVs, and a thermostat wants to say
"That's enough heat in this room thanks", what if another wants the
boiler on?

That room doesn't get the heat it wants. With a properly installed,
sized and balanced system that apparent problem isn't really one, as
the house in general will cool and warm "as one". So when the room
with the stat has cooled enough for it to want heat the other rooms
will also only just have got to that temperature.

Problems will arise if the room with the stat has other significant
heat sources so it doesn't cool as fast as the rest of the house. The
room with the stat shouldn't have TRVs on the rads either or if they
are fitted they should be would right up, otherwise the two
unconnected control systems are likely to "fight" if the TRVs are set
lower than the stat as the latter will never reach it's set point so
will never switch the boiler off.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Ret. wrote:


The one that I have is very efficient - but every time I want to set it,
for example to be off for a week away, and come back on the day we return,
I have to get the instruction manual out and spend a fair bit of time
fiddling with it. It's quite complex and I agree would be wholly
unsuitable for an elderly person (although I'm 64!).


Some of the really fancy ones have a few extra buttons for one shot specials
like "stay on for another hour".

Considering the cost is a small matter of code and a couple of extra buttons
it would be nice if the cheaper ones put some thought into it.

In fact, thinking about it, I can only think of the following manual
overrides that might be commonly useful:

1) Manually up/down the thermostat for the current switching period

2) Holiday for a day - multiple presses gives N-days (on display obviously)

3) Stay on for X-extra hours (multiple presses again).

That's 4 buttons. I suspect a fair few do 1) anyway.

I did wonder what it would be like to have the whole lot networked and stick
a touchscreen in the hall with a StarTrek L-CARS interface - then I realised
that no-one could possibly make an L-CARS interface actually do anything
useful - it looks good at a distance, that all...

--
Tim Watts

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 00:28:23 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

In fact, thinking about it, I can only think of the following manual
overrides that might be commonly useful:

1) Manually up/down the thermostat for the current switching period

2) Holiday for a day - multiple presses gives N-days (on display
obviously)

3) Stay on for X-extra hours (multiple presses again).


The Honeywell CM9x7 series do that.
They're the best of the bunch I've looked at but getting long in the
tooth now (they come set to a date in 2005 when you power them up!).

One feature they really really should have but don't, which would cost £0
to implement (being in software) is to run as a 5+2 or even a 1-day unit.
(Their dedicated 1-day units, the CM9x1s, have fewer buttons).

A more accurate clock would be nice, too: it's surprising how much they
drift, and you tend to expect electronic stuff like this to be accurate
so find yourself looking at the display and assuming it's the right time.

But really nowadays, with multiple zone control increasingly being
mandated in new build and retrofits, is the ability to link them
together: two or more units in tandem (so if you set holiday mode on the
master it propagates to the slaves) and to a central control unit (PC or
smartphone) so you can set up the programs more easily.

It would be non-trivial to implement: even the wireless units, which
already have a transmit link to a remote relay unit, would have to have
receive capabilities. I have no idea if they're working on anything.
Maybe some new entrant to the market will do it. But it would need to
combine the ease-of-use of Honeywell's interface with the extra
functionality.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Fundamentalist agnostic

In message , Ret.
wrote

The one that I have is very efficient - but every time I want to set
it, for example to be off for a week away, and come back on the day we
return, I have to get the instruction manual out and spend a fair bit
of time fiddling with it.

I have one that also requires me to dig out the manual when I want to
change it. Not only is setting the device non-intuitive but the manual
is poorly written.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/06/2011 19:52, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:09:33 +0100, wrote:


Any recommended makes and models?

Honeywell CM907

As with most programmable thermostats setting it up is a shade tedious
but it has several significant advantages in use compared with the
bent metal devices. Firstly the hysterisis is low so it maintains
room temperature well. It also alters the heating on and off times
depending upon room temperature so doing a good job of matching the
required heat profile so it will rarely need to be played with.

Secondly, once set properly if it does need to be altered it is very
easy to manually raise or lower the temperature for that time period
and afterwards it will revert to the program settings. With manual
thermostats the user has to remember to lower them. Some people seem
to think thermostats control the rate of heating and turn them higher
"so the room heats up quickly". This leads to the average temperature
in the house creeping upwards and fuel bills doing likewise.


Many thanks, precisely the sort of answer I was hoping. The CM907 and
901 seem identical, apart from being a 7 or 1 day program. I shall look
at the instruction manual to see how intuitive it is.

On 17/06/2011 23:37, YAPH wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:17:15 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 17/06/2011 15:40, Tabby wrote:
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple as
possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would be
preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there isn't a
permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?
...
I want at least a background temperature at night, a setting for the day
which can be overridden when she's out to a background temperature
setting again. I don't think she really needs a 5/2 or 7 day setting.
Just 2 or 3 timezones in a day.

The Honeywell CM9xx series is the most old-lady-friendly I've used.
I don't think there's any progstat which is particularly non-techie-
friendly to set up but the Honeywells are pretty easy to use, even if all
you do is poke the up or down buttons to adjust the temperature for a
while.

Their 1-day models are the CM901 (wired) and 921 (wireless).
There are also 7-day types: Cm907 and 927 respectively.


Many thanks, there does seem a small consensus that this is the easiest
to get to grips with. I don't need a wireless one as the siting of the
existing one is convenient, and won't need any tidying up!

On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:02:34 -0700 (PDT), DerbyBorn
wrote:


For an elderly person this is important - if it is set and left alone
then surely this is a good thing. One doesn't want an elderly person
turning the thermostat down too low. Mine is set to 17C through the
night - however, it rarely switches on. If it does - then I am pleased
as the house soon gets up to temp at getting up time.

The Honeywell ones allow a minimum (and maximum?) set point so you
can stop them winding the set point to levels that can cause health
problems.


--

On 17/06/2011 19:52, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:09:33 +0100, wrote:


Any recommended makes and models?

Honeywell CM907

As with most programmable thermostats setting it up is a shade tedious
but it has several significant advantages in use compared with the
bent metal devices. Firstly the hysterisis is low so it maintains
room temperature well. It also alters the heating on and off times
depending upon room temperature so doing a good job of matching the
required heat profile so it will rarely need to be played with.

Secondly, once set properly if it does need to be altered it is very
easy to manually raise or lower the temperature for that time period
and afterwards it will revert to the program settings. With manual
thermostats the user has to remember to lower them. Some people seem
to think thermostats control the rate of heating and turn them higher
"so the room heats up quickly". This leads to the average temperature
in the house creeping upwards and fuel bills doing likewise.


I was thinking more of the display, buttons and ease of use. Currently
things aren't a problem, but was thinking of the future.

I have no idea how intelligent other stats are with regards on off
heating times. I would guess they can easily monitor the rate of change
in temperature to limit overshoot which invariably happens in old
fashioned bi-metal ones.

Tim Streater wrote:

So is each of these just working by turning the boiler on/off then? If
they're not controlling the TRVs, and a thermostat wants to say "That's
enough heat in this room thanks", what if another wants the boiler on?
Or are they separate heating circuits each with its own shutoff valve
and separate pipework?


With a combi boiler why not just use the roomstat to control the TRVs? I've
always wonder why TRVs work when there is feed back from the rad close by.

Not having any experience of combis; what does the combi sense, return water
temperature? How does it know if the demand is from DHW rather than central
heating?

AJH

On 18 Jun 2011 00:13:08 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 00:28:23 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
One feature they really really should have but don't, which would cost
£0 to implement (being in software) is to run as a 5+2 or even a 1-day
unit.

Apart from how do you switch mode? Software runs the risk of "random
button pushing" changing it so a switch round the back is called for
ie needs deliberate action to alter. There isn't any difference
between a 7 day set with all days the same and a 1 day. Programming
might be a PITA if there isn't a "copy" feature.

A more accurate clock would be nice, too: it's surprising how much they
drift, and you tend to expect electronic stuff like this to be accurate
so find yourself looking at the display and assuming it's the right
time.

Our Danfoss clocks are quite good both in programmers and the RF
programable stat. couple of mins in 6 months (ie between BST/GMT time
changes). The programmers may actually be mains locked, ISTR that the
clocks were miles off after spending 6+ hrs on the generator the
other month. The stat is set to show actual temp rather than the time
so unless it gets really wrong (hours) the time on it doesn't matter.

But really nowadays, with multiple zone control increasingly being
mandated in new build and retrofits, is the ability to link them
together: two or more units in tandem (so if you set holiday mode on the
master it propagates to the slaves) and to a central control unit (PC or
smartphone) so you can set up the programs more easily.

Be easier to use the standard existing programable stats and put the
"smarts" in the central box. Stat 1 controls valve 1 when that's open
box runs pump and fires boiler, repeat for Stat 2 etc. Holiday mode
is just "off" for n days the box can do that. Adding frost protection
to hoilday is a bit harder but not impossible. Frost stat in box when
that demands fire boiler one could also link it with the remote stats
so that they all have to be demanding heat as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 18/06/2011 10:38, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On 18 Jun 2011 00:13:08 GMT, YAPH wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 00:28:23 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:
One feature they really really should have but don't, which would cost
£0 to implement (being in software) is to run as a 5+2 or even a 1-day
unit.
Apart from how do you switch mode? Software runs the risk of "random
button pushing" changing it so a switch round the back is called for
ie needs deliberate action to alter.

By first going into a "service" mode which would require simultaneous
pressing of multiple buttons. This makes it less likely to be activated
by accident or by "unqualified" users. OK it makes the mode switch more
complicated to achieve but it's not the sort of thing that needs doing
very often so isn't much of a nuisance if you need to get out the
instruction book to do it.

--
Mike Clarke

ARWadsworth wrote:
Ret. wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 17/06/2011 16:03, ARWadsworth wrote:
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:09 pm, wrote:
This for an old lady in her 70's and I want this to be as simple
as possible to setup and use.

I am replacing the existing thermostat, so a wired version would
be preferred, will require batteries as I'm fairly sure there
isn't a permanent live and neutral at the existing stat.

Any recommended makes and models?

If you want simple, forget about programmable stats. I had one
and fonud that in practice it did nothing useful that a bimetal
stat and programmer dont do.

I have to disagree with that. We have a programmable room stat
and its far better than the old dial one. We set different
temperatures for different times of the day no standard stat +
programmer can do that.

It can. You just turn the dial on the roomstat.


I'd sooner stay in bed whilst the house warms up!!

So just like a traditional stat and programmer then:-)

Having fitted hundereds of programmable rooms stats I have never
found one that is easy for most elderly customers to use.

The one that I have is very efficient - but every time I want to set
it, for example to be off for a week away, and come back on the day
we return, I have to get the instruction manual out and spend a fair
bit of time fiddling with it. It's quite complex and I agree would be
wholly unsuitable for an elderly person (although I'm 64!).

Well the easy answer is to book more holidays. That would give you
more experience with the holiday settings on your programmer and save
having to get the manual out:-)

LOL! Yes - that may be the answer...

--
Kev