Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.

On Nov 15, 10:48 am, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.

Chipboard shelving unit?!
I'd just buy a fllat pack from a shed/ikea - it may look ****e but at
least you'll not have spent hours as well as £s getting there...

Jim K

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

It sounds like you have one of the partition wall systems.
They are two sheets of board bonded together by a cardboard honeycomb.
They are very strong for what they are made from.
However books are heavy, you need to put the load down to the floor and just
fix it to the wall to stop it toppling if someone pulls on it.
Any of the standalone bookcases sold flat pack in B&Q, Ikea, etc. will do.
Just choose one with thick shelves so they don't bend.
A batten fixed to the top and into the wall should be enough to stop it
toppling and be invisible if you have a tall bookcase.

IME you won't get away with fixing cantilevered shelves to it and then
loading them with books whatever fixings you use.

In article ,
lid says...

Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.


For books, think solid wood - think how much a shelf-full weighs. Your
(full) bookshelf will be very heavy and very shallow. One nudge in the
wrong place and ...

If it will be standing on the carpet, how level is the edge?

Some fixing to the wall is essential for stability - but note that the
wall is not taking the weight!


If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?


Take a look at 'Billy' bookshelves from Ikea - real wood veneer (mine
are oak and look superb) and no exposed screws!

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?


Plastic fixing blocks - the 3 hole variety - have rounded edges and are
virtually invisible if the melamine is similarly coloured (white, brown
or magnolia should be easy to find.)


IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.


Melamine faced chipboard is usuaslly only about 15mm thick, so you won't
have much support above the screws - and books are heavy!

I'd use the plastic blocks if I were you!

(The Ikea shelves are 18mm and the hidden fixings are off centre, so
most of the board thickness is above.)

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?


Not necessary if you use the plastic blocks!

Seriously, I couldn't find the a suitable computer table a couple of
years ago. Apart from anything else, my wife is left handed and I'm
right handed, so the pull-out keyboard shelf had to be longer than usual
so that she has room to move the mouse.

I said I'd make one; she said we'd buy one, so we wasted a couple of
weekends looking at all the unsuitable ones ...!

So, medium oak melamine faced chipboard (cut to size at B&Q), mid-brown
plastic fixing blocks, two sets of runners (the second is for the
printer shelf under the keyboard shelf at one end and makes it easy to
get to all of the printer when it jams!) and we now have an excellent
piece of functional furniture, rock steady and stable (although I'm not
the greatest DIYer by a long way!).

I'm not a shareholder in Ikea but you really should look at their Billy
shelves - try pricing up all the materials you need to build your own
for comparison: you might be surprised at how it all adds up!

--

Terry

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

I use black PB screws, having tried the SF carcass screws and decided
there ain't much difference.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

If you're having supports between the shelves, use a couple as
"spacers". Clamp them to the side pieces so that the shelf is kept in
position for fixing. For heavier loads you can fix the supports to the
side pieces, thereby creating a groove for the shelves. Main thing is,
the pieces have to be precisely cut so, unless you have a chopsaw, I'd
get them cut to size at a merchant.

In message , Stephen
writes
Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

The stuff finished with timber veneer might give a better look to the
finish product.

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?



Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

I've not done it, but my Dad made a bed headboard, cupboard thing using
dowels to join it. You can get jigs that make the drilling off holes in
the right place easy enough. Though some movable shelves


But unless you really have the urge to build it, or want it to fit a
particular place etc. you might want to look up the prices of decent
flatpack ones compared to the cost of the boards. Cheap ones from Argos
etc. can be pretty rubbish. But the IKEA Billy ones are strong and
sturdy, and quick to put together. Unfussy and do the job well.


E.G. A 200x80x28 cm unit in wood veneer is £49, in white, black or
coloured melamine faced board £30.

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/ca...iving_room/116
85/

The Benno tower is good for CD/DVD/video and matches with the billy
bookcases (shallower,narrower, more and thinner shelves)
--
Chris French

On Nov 15, 11:28*am, "dennis@home"
wrote:
"Stephen" wrote in message

...





Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

It sounds like you have one of the partition wall systems.
They are two sheets of board bonded together by a cardboard honeycomb.
They are very strong for what they are made from.
However books are heavy, you need to put the load down to the floor and just
fix it to the wall to stop it toppling if someone pulls on it.
Any of the standalone bookcases sold flat pack in B&Q, Ikea, etc. will do..
Just choose one with thick shelves so they don't bend.
A batten fixed to the top and into the wall should be enough to stop it
toppling and be invisible if you have a tall bookcase.

IME you won't get away with fixing cantilevered shelves to it and then
loading them with books whatever fixings you use.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The above is probably right. It's called "dry partition". If you have
access above you can tap a wooden batten down from above, breaking
through the walls of the cells within. You have to have room to knock
it down to wherever of course. You can locate it below with a thin
screwdriver poked through the plasterboard. Your shelf bearers can
then be screwed to this batten.
There may be a roof batten screwed across the cieling to locate the
partition. You will have to make a hole in this too.

In article , newspost-c-
says...


But unless you really have the urge to build it, or want it to fit a
particular place etc. you might want to look up the prices of decent
flatpack ones compared to the cost of the boards. Cheap ones from Argos
etc. can be pretty rubbish. But the IKEA Billy ones are strong and
sturdy, and quick to put together. Unfussy and do the job well.

I should have pointed out in my previous post that the screws (actually
specially made fixings but you do screw them in!) are only used to clamp
the shelves to the sides to make the structure rigid - the main fixing
is two dowels in each end of the shelf so, as Chris says, strong and
sturdy.

I think the veneer is sealed with a melamine product, unlike veneered
chipboard you would buy, which is just unfinished veneer, and it
certainly makes the veneer strong as well as looking good - I have a
swivel chair near one of mine and have accidentally caught it against
the front edge of one of my cases on numerous occasions with no sign of
damage, let alone chipped veneer.
--

Terry

In message , Terry
Casey writes
In article , newspost-c-
says...


But unless you really have the urge to build it, or want it to fit a
particular place etc. you might want to look up the prices of decent
flatpack ones compared to the cost of the boards. Cheap ones from Argos
etc. can be pretty rubbish. But the IKEA Billy ones are strong and
sturdy, and quick to put together. Unfussy and do the job well.

I should have pointed out in my previous post that the screws (actually
specially made fixings but you do screw them in!) are only used to clamp
the shelves to the sides to make the structure rigid - the main fixing
is two dowels in each end of the shelf so, as Chris says, strong and
sturdy.

yup, they use those cam fixings, which pull everything together nice and
tight, whilst being nicely hidden.

I think the veneer is sealed with a melamine product, unlike veneered
chipboard you would buy, which is just unfinished veneer, and it
certainly makes the veneer strong as well as looking good

According to the webpage, it's an acrylic lacquer.

The shelves are rated for 30kg, and are plnety good enough for 90% of
the books we have them. It is possible to over do the load on the
shelves, if you have a shelf full of large heavy books, I relocated a
shelf of my wife's medical references to the bottom shelf when I noticed
a small amount of bowing.

But any DIY shelf made with similar boards would probably be worse.
--
Chris French

On 15/11/2010 10:48, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

If you enjoy making things then fair enough, but if saving money is your
main objective I suggest you just buy a cheap bookcase. By the time you
have included all the costs making one will probably work out
significantly more expensive. Things like the screws you need being
sold in packs of 200 when you only want 12 and needing to buy a 2.4m of
chipboard when you any want a couple of feet for the last shelf can soon
add up.

Jim K wrote:
On Nov 15, 10:48 am, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re
enforced by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and
pressing cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of
something resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish
and rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a
quicker and cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily
available, unless you have a better idea?

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard,
so I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.

Chipboard shelving unit?!
I'd just buy a fllat pack from a shed/ikea - it may look ****e but at
least you'll not have spent hours as well as £s getting there...

Jim is spot on. If you look at a basic 'Billy' bookcase from IKEA 200cm
high, 40cm wide, 28cm deep at a cost of £19.

Two pieces of funiture board from Wickes will make the sides, top & bottom -
no shelves or back or fittings & will cost you £15!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Nov 15, 10:48*am, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

Thanks in advance,
Stephen.

If youre going to make something, for heavens sake make something from
decent materials. Veneered chip is just cr-p.


NT

chris French wrote:

[Billy bookcase]

yup, they use those cam fixings, which pull everything together nice and
tight, whilst being nicely hidden.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to have changed to plastic
for the cam part, making them a little less strong?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
chris French wrote:

[Billy bookcase]

yup, they use those cam fixings, which pull everything together nice and
tight, whilst being nicely hidden.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to have changed to plastic
for the cam part, making them a little less strong?


Yup, I noticed that when I put 5 together earlier this year.

Though in the context of where it is used I can't say that any less
perceived strength is an issue.
--
Chris French

chris French wrote:

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
chris French wrote:

[Billy bookcase]

yup, they use those cam fixings, which pull everything together nice and
tight, whilst being nicely hidden.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to have changed to plastic
for the cam part, making them a little less strong?

Yup, I noticed that when I put 5 together earlier this year.

Though in the context of where it is used I can't say that any less
perceived strength is an issue.

A friend reported that he found it was not quite so good for
pulling the joints really tight, but he would perhaps have been
better giving it a tap with a rubber mallet.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
chris French wrote:

[Billy bookcase]

yup, they use those cam fixings, which pull everything together nice and
tight, whilst being nicely hidden.

Has anyone else noticed that they seem to have changed to plastic
for the cam part, making them a little less strong?

I'm not so sure they are weaker, I have snapped the metal ones before, but
not the plastic ones.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:56:18 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The above is probably right. It's called "dry partition". If you have
access above you can tap a wooden batten down from above,

Thanks. the problem is above is the loft and I don't think there is
2.4m headroom so I couldn't drop a batten all the way down, and
knowing my luck, I'd hit it off centre and it would burst through the
wall!

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:13:10 -0800 (PST), Jim K
wrote:

I'd just buy a fllat pack from a shed/ikea - it may look ****e but at
least you'll not have spent hours as well as =A3s getting there...

Hello,

Thanks for all the replies. I was surprised to be told not to DIY but
Billy has a lot of recommendations, so I'll certainly look into that.
I'm afraid don't live anywhere near an Ikea so it will be a day trip
to get there and back so I will spend hours and £s on it, whatever I
do

The Ikea web site says that you can get Billy bookcases and Billy CD
cases but the latter just look like narrow bookcases, I would think
you could use either for whatever you want?

The web site suggests that the shelf heights are adjustable but how do
they do that? The posts here say that they use metal dowel screws so
is it that the sides of the cupboards are drilled with holes and you
screw the dowel into the one at your desired height and then tighten a
dowel screw hidden on the underneath of the shelf? Sorry to ask. I
would answer my own question by going to have a look if they weren't
so far away.

I have used ikea cupboards in the past that used these dowel screws
but only to hold the top on. the shelves were supported by metal
"tabs" pushed into holes in the side.

One advantage of DIY is that I could fit doors to keep the sun off the
books and hide the mess! Billy says it can have doors but in
aluminium. That sounds like it would look like a locker room to me!

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:

The Ikea web site says that you can get Billy bookcases and Billy CD
cases but the latter just look like narrow bookcases, I would think
you could use either for whatever you want?

Shhh! don't tell Ikea that people aren't using products for their
specified use ...

http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack

On Nov 15, 11:44*am, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...







Hello,

I am thinking of making a book case or should I say shelf unit, as I
may use it for cds and dvds too.

Based on my experience of this house, the walls appear to be 8'x4'
plasterboard that is only supported by 1.5"x1.5" wood at the edges,
yes that's right, 4' centres! The plasterboard seems to be re enforced
by splashing some plaster on the inside of the wall and pressing
cardboard squares into it, to give the appearance of something
resembling an egg box with square holes.

As the studs are very insubstantial and few and far between, I don't
think screwing to the wall is a good idea. Though I could demolish and
rebuild the wall, I think a free standing unit might be a quicker and
cleaner way to do things.

For books, think solid wood - think how much a shelf-full weighs. Your
(full) bookshelf will be very heavy and very shallow. One nudge in the
wrong place and ...

If it will be standing on the carpet, how level is the edge?

Some fixing to the wall is essential for stability - but note that the
wall is not taking the weight!



If I use melamine faced chip because it's cheap and readily available,
unless you have a better idea?

Take a look at 'Billy' bookshelves from Ikea - real wood veneer (mine
are oak and look superb) and no exposed screws!

What's the best way to fix the sides to the shelves? Would you just
butt them together or should I be routing/mitering bits out?

Plastic fixing blocks - the 3 hole variety - have rounded edges and are
virtually invisible if the melamine is similarly coloured (white, brown
or magnolia should be easy to find.)



IIRC chipboard likes coarse screws like those used in plasterboard, so
I could just screw through the sides. I am not too worried about
having screws on show. I could always tidy them up with caps.

Melamine faced chipboard is usuaslly only about 15mm thick, so you won't
have much support above the screws - and books are heavy!

I'd use the plastic blocks if I were you!

(The Ikea shelves are 18mm and the hidden fixings are off centre, so
most of the board thickness is above.)

Or would you do something more elegant with hidden dowels?

Is there a magic method to make sure hole and shelf line up or is it
just a case of measuring twice, drilling once?

Not necessary if you use the plastic blocks!

Seriously, I couldn't find the a suitable computer table a couple of
years ago. Apart from anything else, my wife is left handed and I'm
right handed, so the pull-out keyboard shelf had to be longer than usual
so that she has room to move the mouse.

I said I'd make one; she said we'd buy one, so we wasted a couple of
weekends looking at all the unsuitable ones ...!

So, medium oak melamine faced chipboard (cut to size at B&Q), mid-brown
plastic fixing blocks, two sets of runners (the second is for the
printer shelf under the keyboard shelf at one end and makes it easy to
get to all of the printer when it jams!) and we now have an excellent
piece of functional furniture, rock steady and stable (although I'm not
the greatest DIYer by a long way!).

I'm not a shareholder in Ikea but you really should look at their Billy
shelves - try pricing up all the materials you need to build your own
for comparison: you might be surprised at how it all adds up!

--

Terry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Having been moved into a homeworking role recently, I needed to free
up some space to fit a desk in. I got rid of our 6' wide 4' high
bookshelf, for a 6' tall 4' wide "Besta" unit from Ikea (£79 + £6.00
for an extra shelf). Absolutely brilliant quality. Very solid - easily
takes all the books. But follow the instructions about fixing to the
wall at top.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:52:25 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Unless you need bespoke sizes

I could buy some Billies. They wouldn't fill the gap completely but I
could get the nearest combination. I would like to add doors though to
make it a shelved cupboard rather than an open bookcase though.

Screws through the sides into the end of the shelf it the quickest,
weakest, and least attractive solution

I hadn't fully appreciated that. Thanks. So the weight of the shelf
pushes down and the screws burst through the top?

Are those tiny plastic blocks any stronger? After all, they are quite
small. I thought they were not liked in these parts?

Sorry, I've not quoted it but you mentioned a back. I was going to
have a back to stop the books falling out and to give rigidity. I've
noticed some shelves/cupboards just use hardboard. Is that enough or
should I use the same material as used on the sides and shelves?

Bigger cases are probably better with a dado[1] chopped into the
uprights for the shelf to sit in.

Thanks. That's what I was trying to saw but I didn't know dado was the
correct word. I'd only ever heard of dado rails before which have
nothing to do with slots, or is it that you cut slots into the rail to
make it attractive?

You said dados were a long topic, so I won't ask too many questions. I
presume I could just cut straight lines with a router, the same
thickness as the shelf.

I would think the deeper the dado, the more support it would give but
I image that there must be a magic fraction: if you cut too deep would
you weaken the side by going through it? Would it be right to say the
ideal depth is a third of the thickness?

Are there any good books or web sites so I don't have to pester
everyone here?

A dado on the back would support the shelf on three sides, so I would
only have to support the front to prevent sagging.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:41:09 -0800 (PST), Tabby
wrote:

make something from
decent materials

What would you suggest? I am sure walnut would look beautiful but cost
a fortune, perhaps I could buy pine. Is 3/4" thick a good size to go
for?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:38:10 +0000 Stephen wrote :
I have used ikea cupboards in the past that used these dowel screws
but only to hold the top on. the shelves were supported by metal
"tabs" pushed into holes in the side.

Yes, Billy bookcases have the shelves supported on studs pressed into
holes in the bookcase sides. You can buy extra shelves if you need
them and they come with support studs.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:05 -0000, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Two pieces of funiture board from Wickes will make the sides, top & bottom -
no shelves or back or fittings & will cost you £15!

I forgot to ask: does the same apply to kitchen cupboards? I'll be
replacing those one day. Would it be cheaper to buy them flat packed
from Wickes/Ikea or do you make your own and just buy the doors or do
you make the doors as well?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On 16/11/2010 12:51, Stephen wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:52:25 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Unless you need bespoke sizes

I could buy some Billies. They wouldn't fill the gap completely but I
could get the nearest combination. I would like to add doors though to
make it a shelved cupboard rather than an open bookcase though.

If it's a cupboard you're after (a shelf unit with doors :-))you might
consider kitchen units cut down to whatever depth you want, with added
shelves to suit.

Screws through the sides into the end of the shelf it the quickest,
weakest, and least attractive solution

I hadn't fully appreciated that. Thanks. So the weight of the shelf
pushes down and the screws burst through the top?

Not a problem if you're screwing into the centre of the board edge, but
an unholy mess if you're not spot on. I built a huge cd rack from "real
wood veneer" contiboard and plasterboard screws, with shelf supports
every foot or so but, as I said, the pieces have to be precisely cut.

Are those tiny plastic blocks any stronger? After all, they are quite
small. I thought they were not liked in these parts?

I'd rather see screwheads on the ends than modesty blocs on the inside.
They take up shelf space and IME can be a bugger to locate and fix
accurately. Size 4 screws aren't much fun

Sorry, I've not quoted it but you mentioned a back. I was going to
have a back to stop the books falling out and to give rigidity. I've
noticed some shelves/cupboards just use hardboard. Is that enough or
should I use the same material as used on the sides and shelves?

Hardboard is fine for rigidity. You'll have some ugly edges if you use
anything thicker

Bigger cases are probably better with a dado[1] chopped into the
uprights for the shelf to sit in.

Thanks. That's what I was trying to saw but I didn't know dado was the
correct word. I'd only ever heard of dado rails before which have
nothing to do with slots, or is it that you cut slots into the rail to
make it attractive?

You said dados were a long topic, so I won't ask too many questions. I
presume I could just cut straight lines with a router, the same
thickness as the shelf.

I would think the deeper the dado, the more support it would give but
I image that there must be a magic fraction: if you cut too deep would
you weaken the side by going through it? Would it be right to say the
ideal depth is a third of the thickness?

Slots are often cut just to make locating the shelves easier rather than
to increase strength, so don't have to be that deep.

Are there any good books or web sites so I don't have to pester
everyone here?

A dado on the back would support the shelf on three sides, so I would
only have to support the front to prevent sagging.

Thanks,
Stephen.

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 16/11/2010 12:38, Stephen wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:13:10 -0800 (PST), Jim
wrote:

I'd just buy a fllat pack from a shed/ikea - it may look ****e but at
least you'll not have spent hours as well as =A3s getting there...

Hello,

Thanks for all the replies. I was surprised to be told not to DIY but
Billy has a lot of recommendations, so I'll certainly look into that.
I'm afraid don't live anywhere near an Ikea so it will be a day trip
to get there and back so I will spend hours and £s on it, whatever I
do

Ikea are not the only supplier of flatpack shelves. Twas a time Hombase
did a nice solid example.

Indeed, but you need to be careful what you get, there is a fair bit of
rubbish about.


The Ikea web site says that you can get Billy bookcases and Billy CD
cases but the latter just look like narrow bookcases, I would think
you could use either for whatever you want?

Indeed. Although for lots of CDs, I personally like drawers better.
Much easier to hold large numbers in a small space, and easier to read
the labels!

You can of course use the bookcases for CD's the advantage of the Benno
CD tower is that it is cheaper and comes with more shelves closer
together. It is much shallower though than the bookcases, would take
paperbacks ok, but not larger books.

The web site suggests that the shelf heights are adjustable but how do
they do that? The posts here say that they use metal dowel screws so
is it that the sides of the cupboards are drilled with holes and you
screw the dowel into the one at your desired height and then tighten a

Usually c combination of some fixed shelves and some moveable. (not
actually seen a Billy myself - so can't comment on those specifically)

The middle shelf is fixed (with metal dowels and cam fixings like the
top and bottom. The rest of the shelves are adjustable.

I have used ikea cupboards in the past that used these dowel screws
but only to hold the top on. the shelves were supported by metal
"tabs" pushed into holes in the side.

Chances are the bookcases are similar.

The other shelves use metal pins pushed into the holes. Little recesses
cut into the bottom of the shelves so they rest in them. Unobtrusive and
keeps them in place.

One advantage of DIY is that I could fit doors to keep the sun off the
books and hide the mess! Billy says it can have doors but in
aluminium. That sounds like it would look like a locker room to me!

You don't have to use the doors they specify...

There are other doors, including solid wood finish and wood framed
glass.

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/ca...iving_room/116
86/

IKEA do an online ordering service as well, not sure if it covers all
the UK, they were phasing it in. Not everything is available though, and
the delivery charge is pretty expensive (£35 IIRC), but then it saves a
trip, petrol and all those extra useful bits and bobs you purchase on
your way through the store :-)
--
Chris French

chris French wrote:

IKEA do an online ordering service as well, not sure if it covers all
the UK, they were phasing it in. Not everything is available though,
and the delivery charge is pretty expensive (£35 IIRC), but then it
saves a trip, petrol and all those extra useful bits and bobs you
purchase on your way through the store :-)

But then you don't get a hotdog :-(

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

John Rumm wrote:
On 16/11/2010 12:51, Stephen wrote:
SNIP

A dado on the back would support the shelf on three sides, so I would
only have to support the front to prevent sagging.

Yup, although that is getting a bit more complicated, and also means
you need a back of more than just something thin. Much the same can be
achieved by simply nailing through the back into the shelf - it gives
it some extra support in the centre.

Other options include intermediate uprights.

You can also use front lipping on the shelf to add depth and
strength. A hardwood lipping routed with whatever profile, facing on
to a real wood veneer chipboard shelf can look very effective. Keeps
the cost down while making the shelves not only stronger, also also
look far more substantial.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 'The Sagulator' yet.
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

Or maybe they have & I missed it?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , John Rumm
writes
On 16/11/2010 12:38, Stephen wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:13:10 -0800 (PST), Jim
wrote:

I'd just buy a fllat pack from a shed/ikea - it may look ****e but at
least you'll not have spent hours as well as =A3s getting there...

Hello,

Thanks for all the replies. I was surprised to be told not to DIY but
Billy has a lot of recommendations, so I'll certainly look into that.
I'm afraid don't live anywhere near an Ikea so it will be a day trip
to get there and back so I will spend hours and £s on it, whatever I
do

Ikea are not the only supplier of flatpack shelves. Twas a time Hombase
did a nice solid example.

Indeed, but you need to be careful what you get, there is a fair bit of
rubbish about.


The Ikea web site says that you can get Billy bookcases and Billy CD
cases but the latter just look like narrow bookcases, I would think
you could use either for whatever you want?

Indeed. Although for lots of CDs, I personally like drawers better. Much
easier to hold large numbers in a small space, and easier to read the
labels!

You can of course use the bookcases for CD's the advantage of the Benno CD
tower is that it is cheaper and comes with more shelves closer together.
It is much shallower though than the bookcases, would take paperbacks ok,
but not larger books.

The web site suggests that the shelf heights are adjustable but how do
they do that? The posts here say that they use metal dowel screws so
is it that the sides of the cupboards are drilled with holes and you
screw the dowel into the one at your desired height and then tighten a

Usually c combination of some fixed shelves and some moveable. (not
actually seen a Billy myself - so can't comment on those specifically)

The middle shelf is fixed (with metal dowels and cam fixings like the top
and bottom. The rest of the shelves are adjustable.

I have used ikea cupboards in the past that used these dowel screws
but only to hold the top on. the shelves were supported by metal
"tabs" pushed into holes in the side.

Chances are the bookcases are similar.

The other shelves use metal pins pushed into the holes. Little recesses
cut into the bottom of the shelves so they rest in them. Unobtrusive and
keeps them in place.

One advantage of DIY is that I could fit doors to keep the sun off the
books and hide the mess! Billy says it can have doors but in
aluminium. That sounds like it would look like a locker room to me!

You don't have to use the doors they specify...

There are other doors, including solid wood finish and wood framed glass.

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/ca...iving_room/116
86/

IKEA do an online ordering service as well, not sure if it covers all the
UK, they were phasing it in. Not everything is available though, and the
delivery charge is pretty expensive (£35 IIRC), but then it saves a trip,
petrol and all those extra useful bits and bobs you purchase on your way
through the store :-)

Surely all those "useful" bits and bobs that you buy on the way through is a
reason for going to the store

tim

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
chris French wrote:

IKEA do an online ordering service as well, not sure if it covers all
the UK, they were phasing it in. Not everything is available though,
and the delivery charge is pretty expensive (£35 IIRC), but then it
saves a trip, petrol and all those extra useful bits and bobs you
purchase on your way through the store :-)

But then you don't get a hotdog :-(


True, priorities I guess :-)
--
Chris French

In message , tim....
writes

"chris French" wrote in message
k...

IKEA do an online ordering service as well, not sure if it covers all the
UK, they were phasing it in. Not everything is available though, and the
delivery charge is pretty expensive (£35 IIRC), but then it saves a trip,
petrol and all those extra useful bits and bobs you purchase on your way
through the store :-)

Surely all those "useful" bits and bobs that you buy on the way through is a
reason for going to the store


Probably, bookcases are just an aside.


--
Chris French

In article ,
lid says...


The web site suggests that the shelf heights are adjustable but how do
they do that? The posts here say that they use metal dowel screws so
is it that the sides of the cupboards are drilled with holes and you
screw the dowel into the one at your desired height and then tighten a
dowel screw hidden on the underneath of the shelf? Sorry to ask. I
would answer my own question by going to have a look if they weren't
so far away.


Unfortunately I can't find a picture so I hope you can follow this
description:

There is a series of blind holes in the sides. Simply choose the holes
for the height you require.

Special screws are inserted into blind holes and tightened (two each
side). (The majority of the screw protrudes from the side.)

The exposed shank and head of the screws goes into pre-drilled holes in
the shelf. There are larger circular holes in the underside of the shelf
and the head of the screws project into these cavities.

A cam device is inserted into each hole so that it engages behind the
screw head, then rotated, which causes the screw to be pulled into the
shelf as far as possible, thus making the shelf/side joint very tight.
The cams fit flush with the shelf and are coloured to match.


One advantage of DIY is that I could fit doors to keep the sun off the
books and hide the mess! Billy says it can have doors but in
aluminium. That sounds like it would look like a locker room to me!


The aluminium refers to glass doors with aluminium frames. Goto:

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/ca...iving_room/116
83/

or http://tinyurl.com/2u53rh9

and follow the link to the right of the picture for the 'Buying Guide
(PDF)' which shows the complete Billy range including wood, glass, etc.
doors and take your pick.

--

Terry

In message , Terry
Casey writes
In article ,
says...


The web site suggests that the shelf heights are adjustable but how do
they do that? The posts here say that they use metal dowel screws so
is it that the sides of the cupboards are drilled with holes and you
screw the dowel into the one at your desired height and then tighten a
dowel screw hidden on the underneath of the shelf? Sorry to ask. I
would answer my own question by going to have a look if they weren't
so far away.


Unfortunately I can't find a picture so I hope you can follow this
description:

There is a series of blind holes in the sides. Simply choose the holes
for the height you require.

Not quite. There isn't a choice.


Special screws are inserted into blind holes and tightened (two each
side). (The majority of the screw protrudes from the side.)

The metal screw in 'dowels' only go into specific holes for the top,
bottom and middle shelf. The rest of the blind holes are used for the
little metal pins for the adjustable shelves.


A cam device is inserted into each hole so that it engages behind the
screw head, then rotated, which causes the screw to be pulled into the
shelf as far as possible, thus making the shelf/side joint very tight.
The cams fit flush with the shelf and are coloured to match.


None of mine have been colour matched. Used to be metal, now grey
plastic. But not really noticeable, as the bottom ones are hidden, the
top ones are on top and the middle ones under the shelf, so probably
only visible to someone 3 ft
--
Chris French

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:52:19 +0000, chris French
wrote:

The middle shelf is fixed (with metal dowels and cam fixings like the
top and bottom. The rest of the shelves are adjustable.

Thanks. That sounds vaguely familiar. I think I bought a cupboard like
that from them many years ago. Knowing my luck, I would space the
shelves such that the fixed shelf was in the way! I'm sure I removed
the fixed shelf and yet the cupboard remained rigid. Do you think the
fixed middle shelf could safely be removed from the Billy bookcase?

There are other doors, including solid wood finish and wood framed
glass.

Sorry, I didn't see those on the web site. Are they quite easy to fit
to the Billy bookcase?

In message , Stephen
writes
On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:52:19 +0000, chris French
wrote:

The middle shelf is fixed (with metal dowels and cam fixings like the
top and bottom. The rest of the shelves are adjustable.

Thanks. That sounds vaguely familiar. I think I bought a cupboard like
that from them many years ago. Knowing my luck, I would space the
shelves such that the fixed shelf was in the way! I'm sure I removed
the fixed shelf and yet the cupboard remained rigid. Do you think the
fixed middle shelf could safely be removed from the Billy bookcase?


I'd be a bit dubious about that, I'd be concerned about rigidity and
keeping square, though if fixed to the wall I guess that would be ok.

Also the back panel (a melamine faced hardboard or MDF panel IIRC) is
nailed to the back of the shelf, it would probably have rather to much
flex without this fixing.

But I've never felt the desire to remove it. With the standard other 4
adjustable shelves the spacing between shelves is fine for reference
books, hardback books, larger paperbacks etc. With an extra shelf - to
give 3 adjustable shelves in the upper or lower half of the bookcase
they space about right for normal paperbacks.

There are other doors, including solid wood finish and wood framed
glass.

Sorry, I didn't see those on the web site. Are they quite easy to fit
to the Billy bookcase?

I've not fitted any doors to ours, but from memory and my experience
with other IKEA stuff, they will use the kitchen cabinet type hinges for
the doors. So should be easy enough to fit.

Presumably using the front row of shelf mounting holes to screw them
into on the frames (which might limit shelf placements a little I guess)

I've not found the instructions on the UK website, but there are
instructions available to download on the US site if you want to see how
things go together.

http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/custome...tructions.html

--
Chris French

Stephen wrote:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:56:18 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

The above is probably right. It's called "dry partition". If you have
access above you can tap a wooden batten down from above,

Thanks. the problem is above is the loft and I don't think there is
2.4m headroom so I couldn't drop a batten all the way down, and
knowing my luck, I'd hit it off centre and it would burst through the
wall!

Just keep tapping in shorter sections one after the other until the bottom
one is far enough down. But try to arrange things so that the screws won't
be going in near the ends of any of the battens.

There's not much danger of the battens breaking through the sides of the
panel unless you do something very drastic, they just follow the internal
surface.

--
Mike Clarke

In article , newspost-c-002
@familyfrench.co.uk says...

In message , Terry
Casey writes

There is a series of blind holes in the sides. Simply choose the holes
for the height you require.

Not quite. There isn't a choice.


Yes. I was relying on memory too much - I should have looked at the actual shelf units
first!


Special screws are inserted into blind holes and tightened (two each
side). (The majority of the screw protrudes from the side.)

The metal screw in 'dowels' only go into specific holes for the top,
bottom and middle shelf. The rest of the blind holes are used for the
little metal pins for the adjustable shelves.


On my 2m units, midle shelf is ~1m up, with 4 broups of holes, eight in each group on
32mm spacing, for the other shelves and, as you say, held up with metal pins.


A cam device is inserted into each hole so that it engages behind the
screw head, then rotated, which causes the screw to be pulled into the
shelf as far as possible, thus making the shelf/side joint very tight.
The cams fit flush with the shelf and are coloured to match.


None of mine have been colour matched. Used to be metal, now grey
plastic. But not really noticeable, as the bottom ones are hidden, the
top ones are on top and the middle ones under the shelf, so probably
only visible to someone 3 ft

I'll take your word for it as I can't be bothered to go down on my knackered knees with a
torch!

Also the shelves have recesses on the underside for the metal pins so that the shelves
can't move forward and the pins are virtually hidden.

--

Terry

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:29:02 +0000, chris French
wrote:

Presumably using the front row of shelf mounting holes to screw them
into on the frames (which might limit shelf placements a little I guess)

I've finally been to ikea to have a look. Like you say, the hinges
screw into the shelf holes so you have to make sure the shelf is not
in the way.

I wanted a wooden door to hide the mess inside. The full height doors
all seem to be part/all glass so they are not really what I am looking
for. Perhaps I should make my own doors and half DIY the job.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 12:32:34 +0000, Mike Clarke
wrote:

Just keep tapping in shorter sections one after the other until the bottom
one is far enough down.

Thanks. I didn't realise I could use short lengths. I thought I would
have to go from floor to ceiling. Presumably the longer the better, as
it would share the weight over a larger area?

Thanks.

On Nov 29, 8:49 pm, Stephen wrote:

I've finally been to ikea to have a look. Like you say, the hinges
screw into the shelf holes so you have to make sure the shelf is not
in the way.

I wanted a wooden door to hide the mess inside. The full height doors
all seem to be part/all glass so they are not really what I am looking
for. Perhaps I should make my own doors and half DIY the job.

note not all the options for a given range are shown in the Ikea
showrooms - use Ikea.com to see what they do have stashed away in the
back....

Jim K