SWMBO wants a bog. Well, one that's not in the hall anyway. They are
*so* unreasonable, these women! ;-

Anyway, here's the new one, dry fitted (and kids instructed NOT to test!):

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62205.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62327.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62428.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62516.jpg.html

I'd like to box in that rear pipe - and the main stack. The rear boxing
is fairly standard - rectangular, about a foot high - or 2' high if I
take the flush pipe from the high level cistern through it, tiled on the
front with a solid wood lid that can be lifted for checking... I'll try
to make the front panel in 2 parts around the soil pipe, screwed on with
grout over the screws so it *could* be removed non destructively if the
worst happens...

Now, that white pipe sticking out the top of the stack sports a 50mm AAV
and has to be 3' high or so to be above the flood line of the basin,
which comes in on that other white pipe down below.

So, I'm thinking of a vertical column, with a door, all tiled including
the door itself - bit like this from the top:

=========== Rear Wall ========
| |
| Stack |
| /
| / --- Door, really 45 degrees
|==== /
|


The column will be about 4' high, the door 2' or so in the top half -
great place to hide bog rolls and allow easy servicing of the AAV which
is bound to go wrong sometime...

The white waste to the basin *can* be on show as it's fairly
unobtrusive. It's that stack that's pig ugly...

-----------
The questions:
==============

So, assuming I use lots of 2x1" and/or 2x2" for framing and some WBP ply
for the facings, what thickness of ply should I go for to cope with
tiles (yes, have flexible adhesive)? Is 18mm overkill?

For the door hinges, I'm thinking

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Clea.../sd2683/p68351

(Kitchen cupboard concealed hinges).

But I'm open to any cool ideas that other people have done...

Space is everything in this bathroom - it is only 3m2 including bath, so
having lots of hidey places for crap would be a real bonus. I'm even
thinking to put doors, or drawers into the bath panel...

BTW - I know lots of people bed their bogs on silicone (with or without
screws - I would have screws in mine) - is that a bad idea if I ever
need to remove the loo?

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 1 June, 18:38, Tim Watts wrote:
SWMBO wants a bog. Well, one that's not in the hall anyway. They are
*so* unreasonable, these women! ;-

Anyway, here's the new one, dry fitted (and kids instructed NOT to test!):

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62516.jpg.html

I'd like to box in that rear pipe - and the main stack. The rear boxing
is fairly standard - rectangular, about a foot high - or 2' high if I
take the flush pipe from the high level cistern through it, tiled on the
front with a solid wood lid that can be lifted for checking... I'll try
to make the front panel in 2 parts around the soil pipe, screwed on with
grout over the screws so it *could* be removed non destructively if the
worst happens...

Now, that white pipe sticking out the top of the stack sports a 50mm AAV
and has to be 3' high or so to be above the flood line of the basin,
which comes in on that other white pipe down below.

So, I'm thinking of a vertical column, with a door, all tiled including
the door itself - bit like this from the top:

=========== Rear Wall ========
| |
| Stack |
| /
| / --- Door, really 45 degrees
|==== /
|

The column will be about 4' high, the door 2' or so in the top half -
great place to hide bog rolls and allow easy servicing of the AAV which
is bound to go wrong sometime...

The white waste to the basin *can* be on show as it's fairly
unobtrusive. It's that stack that's pig ugly...

-----------
The questions:
==============

So, assuming I use lots of 2x1" and/or 2x2" for framing and some WBP ply
for the facings, what thickness of ply should I go for to cope with
tiles (yes, have flexible adhesive)? Is 18mm overkill?

For the door hinges, I'm thinking

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Clea...ealed+Cabinet+...

(Kitchen cupboard concealed hinges).

But I'm open to any cool ideas that other people have done...

Space is everything in this bathroom - it is only 3m2 including bath, so
having lots of hidey places for crap would be a real bonus. I'm even
thinking to put doors, or drawers into the bath panel...

BTW - I know lots of people bed their bogs on silicone (with or without
screws - I would have screws in mine) - is that a bad idea if I ever
need to remove the loo?


is the bog choice final? just (still ;)) doing a wall-hung bog which
would have dealt with most of that pipe-age and makes a small bathroom
look bigger (apparently) cos you can see under it....

ply - I pondered this when doing above - thinnest I considered was
15mm but went for 18mm - only 3mm after all..
18mm still flexes over a span of 750mm (between two uprights - I'll
add a noggin before final fix) tho plenty of your 2X2 etc should sort
that.

drawers under the bath sounds cool but I can see *a lot* of work for
little practical useful space....

siliconing bogs in - never done it - but expect some sort of a "cheese
wire" would undo most adhesion should the need arise?

cheers
Jim K

is the bog choice final? just (still ;)) doing a wall-hung bog which
would have dealt with most of that pipe-age and makes a small bathroom
look bigger (apparently) cos you can see under it....

That was my thought too, after looking at the photos. The recess is
ideal.

Wall hung loos can fairly easily be removed to enable removing the
panel behind - plus you would have the removable wooden top panel.

Can highly recommend the Grohe-frame kit if you go down that route.

On 01/06/10 19:01, Jim K wrote:


is the bog choice final? just (still ;)) doing a wall-hung bog which
would have dealt with most of that pipe-age and makes a small bathroom
look bigger (apparently) cos you can see under it....

Yes (and to Dom) the bog choice is final ;- I see your points. My
choice of high level was to get a decent flush with the diminishing
amounts of water they hold though. I feel in my bones that I'm not going
to regret that move.

ply - I pondered this when doing above - thinnest I considered was
15mm but went for 18mm - only 3mm after all..
18mm still flexes over a span of 750mm (between two uprights - I'll
add a noggin before final fix) tho plenty of your 2X2 etc should sort
that.

OK - 18mm it is then Thanks for confirming that.

drawers under the bath sounds cool but I can see *a lot* of work for
little practical useful space....

True - and provides weak spots WRT water. OTOH, there is a very sizeable
recess at the rear end - I could store *all* of our spare shampoo,
bubble bath, bleach and whatnots there. Maybe just a door and a shelf.
Doors are easy... Then I don't need a cabinet on the wall.

siliconing bogs in - never done it - but expect some sort of a "cheese
wire" would undo most adhesion should the need arise?

Some here have claimed too - I'd never heard of it before. Despite the
fact that the tiles are dead flat and level under there, the bog base
isn't perfect so I reckon it needs something. That could be a piece of
conformal sheet like rubber or 2-3 layers of DPC or something. Or it
could be some silicone with the bog wedged up on 1mm packers while it
sets then screwed down tight.

I like the cheesewire theory. That should work. hopefully, there is no
reason that I would ever need to take it out in the next 30 years, but I
don't like knowingly shooting myself in the foot

SWMBO came back and we had another idea. I could box in upto 2' high
round the bog *and* the stack, using the same column footprint mentioned
earlier. But instead of continuing the column up as a closed box, I
could change over to open fronted (level with the top of the rear box)
with the sides made of nice wood and not tiled with little shelves in.
OK, the AAV pipe would be visible, but it would be white against white
tiles and behind bog roles and pot-pourri or whatever SWMBO sticks
there. I might use oak, and same stuff for the lid of the back box. That
would be a feature with continuity with the door framing. Bit easier to
construct too. I'm liking this... All the low down stuff will be easy to
wash tiles.

Cheers

Tim



cheers
Jim K


--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 1 June, 20:02, " wrote:
is the bog choice final? just (still ;)) doing a wall-hung bog which
would have dealt with most of that pipe-age and makes a small bathroom
look bigger (apparently) cos you can see under it....

That was my thought too, after looking at the photos. The recess is
ideal.

Wall hung loos can fairly easily be removed to enable removing the
panel behind - plus you would have the removable wooden top panel.

Can highly recommend the Grohe-frame kit if you go down that route.

aye 2 bolts and an extra pair of hands plus a mop and bucket I hope/
expect.
All the cistern joints and components can be got at/out through the
flush plate aperture, removing the bog reveals reasonable access to
the soil pipe runs behind.

(I'm using a GEBERIT frame (ebay) - very nicely thought out kit - hope
it works! :))

Cheers
JimK

SWMBO wants a bog. Well, one that's not in the hall anyway. They are
*so* unreasonable, these women! ;-
Anyway, here's the new one, dry fitted (and kids instructed NOT to test!):
I'd like to box in that rear pipe - and the main stack.

What about the cabinets where the bog butts up to the front, and all
pipework is hidden behind it ?

A quick call around some local bathroom places, and you'll probably
be able to get a small shelving unit to fit alongside it as well.

On 01/06/10 21:09, John Rumm wrote:

As others suggested, a wall hung frame mounted bog would be ideal for
that situation. You could either take the wall up to just above AAV
height and go with the hardwood lid plan, or just goe floor to ceiling.

With these the frame carries the weight generally. 1/2" ply is adequate
to tile over. The top bit with no weight on can be plasterboard.

It's an interesting theory. I quite like those hung bogs, but the
decision is made :-O

So, I'm thinking of a vertical column, with a door, all tiled including
the door itself - bit like this from the top:

Not sure about the slanty edge - just draws attention to it.

Good point. Time for a full size cardboard mockup methinks...

So, assuming I use lots of 2x1" and/or 2x2" for framing and some WBP ply
for the facings, what thickness of ply should I go for to cope with
tiles (yes, have flexible adhesive)? Is 18mm overkill?

Yes.

So 15mm...


No, you can run a wire under it (guitar string works well).

Aha.

With afloor
stander, you can usually just seal around the base to prevent ingress of
water or other erm, "fluids". The time I found silicone very handy was
on the so called free standing close coupled jobbies where the cister
tended to waggle about with the flex in the floor. Siliconing it to the
wall fixed that.


Thanks John.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

(I'm using a GEBERIT frame (ebay) - very nicely thought out kit - hope
it works! :))

Not used the Geberit frame, but my experience of other geberit
fittings is first class - I'd say they just have the edge over Grohe.

In fact, like a lot of things that need to be well engineered, "buy
german" has a lot going for it.

I used Bette for my bath and shower trays - again, tiptop stuff.

On 02/06/10 00:04, Owain wrote:
On 1 June, 20:56, Tim Watts wrote:
... OTOH, there is a very sizeable
recess at the rear end - I could store *all* of our spare shampoo,
bubble bath, bleach and whatnots there.

I would suggest not storing the bleach and the shampoo in the same
place.

Please don't ask me how I know this.

Owain


Went for the Boris Johnson look?

Seriously, it's a good point. Bleach should live under the kitchen sink
with all the other nasties...


--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On 01/06/10 18:38, Tim Watts wrote:
SWMBO wants a bog. Well, one that's not in the hall anyway. They are
*so* unreasonable, these women! ;-

Anyway, here's the new one, dry fitted (and kids instructed NOT to test!):

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62205.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62327.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62428.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62516.jpg.html

I'd like to box in that rear pipe - and the main stack. The rear boxing
is fairly standard - rectangular, about a foot high - or 2' high if I
take the flush pipe from the high level cistern through it, tiled on the
front with a solid wood lid that can be lifted for checking... I'll try
to make the front panel in 2 parts around the soil pipe, screwed on with
grout over the screws so it *could* be removed non destructively if the
worst happens...

snip

Hang on a minute... I've just read the Floplast datasheet on their
AAVs... It says the AV/AF110 or AV/AF32's *can* be installed below the
flood line of connected appliances (the basin). The only stipulation is
that the AV/AF110 be installed 200mm above the highest wet entry to the
main branch, which on the diagram is the loo entry to that tee.

http://www.floplast.co.uk/uploads/Ai...e%20Valves.pdf

On that basis, I should get the AV110, shove it on a short stub of 110
into the top of that stack and run a shelf right over the top, which by
my reckoning, should be an inch or three above the loo seat. I could
then run the shelf round the left of the bog, less deep, same height to
contain most of the basin waste, just allowing it to pop out just as it
turns the corner to go under the basin.

Now that is a *lot* simpler... No complicated pillar cupboards... It
will look far more subtle and with the two shelves lifted off, access to
the entire assembly will be easy.

I did think about shoving my AF32 baby AAV under the basin and venting
from there. It's a chancier option. It would probably work, but it's not
"by the book" being an undersized device and I'd want to allow for
putting a 110 AAV in anyway just in case. For an extra 16 quid (mine was
4 quid, so hardly much lost) I feel more inclined to go for it.

Better buy the bog seat now just to check that that will not foul the
shelf...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

wrote:
On 2 Jun,
Tim Watts wrote:

Seriously, it's a good point. Bleach should live under the kitchen sink
with all the other nasties...

I've been saying that for years. How do I persuade SWMBO /not/ to store
bleach with other nasties on /top/ of the kitchen units, where I can just
reach enough to knock them off. I was indoctrinated in my first job not to
store corrosives etc. above eye height for good reason.

But under the sink little children could get it and drink it or make
'potions'

[g]

On 02/06/10 01:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/06/2010 21:36, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/06/10 21:09, John Rumm wrote:


So, assuming I use lots of 2x1" and/or 2x2" for framing and some WBP
ply
for the facings, what thickness of ply should I go for to cope with
tiles (yes, have flexible adhesive)? Is 18mm overkill?

Yes.

So 15mm...

12mm will be plenty - its not taking any load

I guess I'm worried about it being kicked and cracking the tiles/grout.
But then I suppose PB walls get thumped when they're tiled (eg shower)
and they don't crack...
--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Jun 2, 12:59 am, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/06/10 18:38, Tim Watts wrote:

SWMBO wants a bog. Well, one that's not in the hall anyway. They are
*so* unreasonable, these women! ;-

Anyway, here's the new one, dry fitted (and kids instructed NOT to test!):

http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62205.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62327.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62428.jpg.html
http://photos.dionic.net/v/public/bu...62516.jpg.html

I'd like to box in that rear pipe - and the main stack. The rear boxing
is fairly standard - rectangular, about a foot high - or 2' high if I
take the flush pipe from the high level cistern through it, tiled on the
front with a solid wood lid that can be lifted for checking... I'll try
to make the front panel in 2 parts around the soil pipe, screwed on with
grout over the screws so it *could* be removed non destructively if the
worst happens...

snip

Hang on a minute... I've just read the Floplast datasheet on their
AAVs... It says the AV/AF110 or AV/AF32's *can* be installed below the
flood line of connected appliances (the basin). The only stipulation is
that the AV/AF110 be installed 200mm above the highest wet entry to the
main branch, which on the diagram is the loo entry to that tee.

http://www.floplast.co.uk/uploads/Ai...e%20Valves.pdf

On that basis, I should get the AV110, shove it on a short stub of 110
into the top of that stack and run a shelf right over the top, which by
my reckoning, should be an inch or three above the loo seat.

mmm I might prefer a bit more vertically behind the bog? otherwise
inevitable ahem "splashes" may well cover the contents of the
shelves.....??

Cheers
JimK

On 02/06/10 08:41, Jim K wrote:

On that basis, I should get the AV110, shove it on a short stub of 110
into the top of that stack and run a shelf right over the top, which by
my reckoning, should be an inch or three above the loo seat.

mmm I might prefer a bit more vertically behind the bog? otherwise
inevitable ahem "splashes" may well cover the contents of the
shelves.....??

This is a good point. I've set the minimum, but I can go higher. Time to
play cardboard...

Bit annoyed - one of my tiles has cracked round by the bath - it's a
very thin one on the end by the bath (1" wide) and sits on the wood
framing of the bath. Oh well, have to cut it out. Think I'll silicone
it's replacement in, obviously a slight bit of movement in the framing.

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

On Jun 2, 8:55 am, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/06/10 08:41, Jim K wrote:

On that basis, I should get the AV110, shove it on a short stub of 110
into the top of that stack and run a shelf right over the top, which by
my reckoning, should be an inch or three above the loo seat.

mmm I might prefer a bit more vertically behind the bog? otherwise
inevitable ahem "splashes" may well cover the contents of the
shelves.....??

This is a good point. I've set the minimum, but I can go higher. Time to
play cardboard...

i played about with all sorts of ideas planning my current bathroom
project (and previous cloaks) on Google Sketchup, good results after
initial investment learning...

cheers
Jim K

On 02/06/10 09:25, Jim K wrote:
On Jun 2, 8:55 am, Tim wrote:
On 02/06/10 08:41, Jim K wrote:

On that basis, I should get the AV110, shove it on a short stub of 110
into the top of that stack and run a shelf right over the top, which by
my reckoning, should be an inch or three above the loo seat.

mmm I might prefer a bit more vertically behind the bog? otherwise
inevitable ahem "splashes" may well cover the contents of the
shelves.....??

This is a good point. I've set the minimum, but I can go higher. Time to
play cardboard...

i played about with all sorts of ideas planning my current bathroom
project (and previous cloaks) on Google Sketchup, good results after
initial investment learning...


I've designed studwork with Sketchup. I also did the general house
design in TurboFlooPlan which has good 3D. Sometimes, though, cardboard
is easier because people can "be there" and feel it ;-


--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.