I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 04/04/2010 13:35, The Medway Handyman wrote:
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes& the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

Definitely get an external HD of some kind - NAS or USB. They're not
expensive. If going USB, one which doesn't need an external PSU is much
more convenient - eg WD My Passport drive. Copy your general stuff as
well as the apparently vital stuff.

Make a machine level backup too. The free edition of Macrium Reflect is
good at that (and I have tested it :-) ). Norton Ghost is probably a
similar product.

Online backup seems like a really good idea, but I have no experience of
who, if anybody, can be trusted in that field.

Or you could do as Dennis recommends and spend a large sum on a tape
backup :-)

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:35:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

I use one of these ! Just drag over what you want to store.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yz2u758

If you want a SW solution, then hopefully someone else has some suggestions,
because what I use on Windows is very old. On Linux I use 'Image for Linux'
which is OK.

Andy C

The Medway Handyman wrote:
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?



I use a Buffalo network attached storage(NAS)device with Memeo
autobackup. The software, which should come with the NAS, automatically
makes at least one backup of a file as it changes, then copies it to the
Buffalo. If you use a router to connect to the Internet you probably
connect to it using a network RJ45 cable often coloured blue. You just
need to plug the Buffalo into the router as well, also using a network
cable, and the router will sort out the addresses for you.

I had no problem installing the device and have now had it running for
over two years. Never needed it for a system failure but it also works
as a media file streamer.

Peter Scott

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




Portable external hard drive and http://www.drivesnapshot.de/en/
I use it all the time. Backups are performed in 'real-time' so you can carry
on working. You can also do selective file restores as well in case you wish
to recover just one file.

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:35:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

mutter mumble 'Norton' being like a virus itself mumble ;-(


So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

Bit of both maybe?

For your important stuff Dropbox could be handy.

Up to 2G is free (plus you can earn more capacity by getting others to
sign up etc) and it's basically a folder that gets synchronised
between your PC / Mac / Linux and the WEB ... then to any other
machines that share the same Dropbox. ie, You drop a file into the
folder and it appears on the web (password protected etc) and say yer
Mrs PC. I've only been playing with it for a while but it looks ok.
Someone will probably come along and tell us why it isn't a good idea
though. ;-(

http://www.dropbox.com/

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

For true 'get yer *data* somewhere easily ... and restore easily' I'd
go along with the other suggestions and an external USB drive of some
sort and a Clickfree transformer:

http://www.clickfree.com/products_transformer.php

Perfect numpty appeal:

Plug transformer into USB drive.
Plug combo into PC.
Click 'Yes' (one time) to the agreement.
Sit and watch .. (first time will take a while, subsequent ones less
so).

... As it goes round your drive finding all the pictures, documents,
videos and a large quantity of other stuff one might consider data and
stuffs it all on the external drive.

You can then top it up at whatever intervals you want (/remember) and
do other machines as well (and store the backup off site?).

Worst comes to the worst, or you buy a new PC, plug the thing back in,
tell it to restore (choose the machine name from it's list) and either
put all the files in a new folder to sort though at your leisure, or,
let it put them all back where it got them from (even across different
versions of OS).

It doesn't do the OS though, just your data (and the most important
bit presumably). [1]

I've used mine several times when wiping a machine and I'd have to say
it's pretty seamless (your mileage may vary etc).

It's not subtle like may other systems but simple enough to use easily
and much much better than not doing anything at all (often the
alternative).

They do the concept (software built in) with a hard drive as well but
I preferred the flexibility to be able to use the dongle thing over
several drives.

Cheers, T i m

[1] You could use the raw external drive and 'some software' to take a
snapshot of yer new / clean system then use the Clickfree thing (to
the same drive) to back up yer data as you go?

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:35:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?
I use Genie Backup Manager, and take an image of my C: drive every so
often (manually initiated), plus an automatic backup every time I
first login each day. The automatic backups are of selected folders
and files (ie my data files, email database, pictures, config files
etc) but not program files, which don't change very often. For these
data backups I have set the backup software to create a full backup
every 30 days, with intervening daily incremental backups (only files
that have changed). Individual files or folders can be
restored/recovered in addition to complete backups. Full backups are
kept for 12 months and incrementals deleted after the following three
full backups.

I use" Karens Once a Day"
http://www.karenware.com/powertools/ptoad.asp
to trigger the Genie backup the first time I login each day, leter
versions of Genie may now have this feature built in.

Slightly older versions of Genie backup can be found for free on
magazine cover disks and online. It runs in the background so you can
carry on working. Acronis True Image is an alternative, also available
free for older versions.

All my backups are to a usb hard drive, then every so often I also
copy the monthly backup files to a remote (and physically hidden at
the other end of the house) NAS drive in case my PC and usb drive gets
damaged or nicked.

Bit belt and braces, but both the usb and NAS drives get used for
other things as well, so not over expensive.

Big drives are so cheap now it's really not worth bothering with tape,
and they are pretty reliable. I've never trusted remote backup
solutions, so not tried them.

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Sunday 04 April 2010 13:35

I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but
I don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?



For quite a robust little system, if you have WIFI, then a WIFI NAS hard
disk-in-a-box could be quite cool. It would give you the potential to put in
the garage or shed, giving it some protection against accidents and fire or
flood that might take out all your computers in one go.

Happy to look into this a bit more if you're interested. This method and any
method that uses an always-on hard disk has the potential to automate
backups daily so you don't forget, though good reporting is essential - eg
it should email you if something didn't work.

And back up your accounts to both the NAS and the USB stick for double
protection.

In the meantime, personally I would use 2 USB sticks or one of a very decent
quality such as the Corsair stick-in-an-ali-tube:

http://www.corsair.com/products/survivor/default.aspx

I have an earlier version, 3 years old. Almost indestructible and waterproof
when in the tube and the flash RAM is good quality too - and faster than a
lot of the cheaper flash so copying data is several times quicker than a
cheap and nasty stick (I've compared a few).

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:35:39 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

Go buy Acronis True Image and a cheap USB HD.

Do a complete image to the new HD. (Takes anything from 10 to 30
minutes.

Then do incremental backups to that image. You can even mount the
image to browse as if it were a real HD. I can even run some simple
programs from the image.

Keep the new HD disconnected and stored in a safe place, preferably in
another building.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?



Here's an 'AVOID' warning....

Seagate sell something called the Seagate Replica - wich consists of a
USB hard drive and some software. USB drive is OK - but the seftware is
truly dreadful - supposed to backup in the background, but slugs the
system response while it's doing so - then, from time to time, it
believes that it's filled up the external hard drive and falls in a
heap, giggling.
Ask Seagate support about it and they reccomend hacking the registry,
resinstalling the software, disembowelling goats & etc.

On my 'to do' list =- format the USB hard drive & use 'something else'
for backup software.....

Adrian

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

I've been through various options here and ended up using the free
SyncToy from Microsoft (and a Windows Home Server running on a very
cheap HP server box).
I tried using a couple of NAS devices, and ended up frustrated by
software updates and other inconveniences, and sold them on ebay.
My experiences with other dedicated backup software from specialist
suppliers have always ended in tears.
For my data, as opposed to something that will restore the OS as well, I
run a second machine on the network and hang an external drive across
this, then use SyncToy to back up to both the machine and drive. SyncToy
is a tiny bit "hands on" at first, but can be automated and once you
understand how it works, it's really simple and clear to use.

The server just gives a second pair of braces, and can mirror any vital
data as well as backing up every machine.


--
Bill

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick,

Save or backup? If the memory stick is the only place you save it then
I'd suggest putting elsewhere as well! I've had plenty of memory stick
go bad (admittedly, less common with decent brands).

For stuff like this you might want to consider dropbox

http://www.dropbox.com/

Or, if you are feeling generous, use my signup link and I'll get some
more space ;-) ( https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIwMjYwODk )

You get a couple of gig free - so it's not massive but handy to be able
to get hold of stuff on other machines at time. It just gives you a
"folder" on your machine that you save things to - and then they are copied
up into the cloud.

There are other options around like this - Microsofts Live would be
one worth a look if you don't want cross platform.

but I don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience
if anything happened.

what sort of size backup are you talking about? Complete machine backup?

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

*runs away*

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

Possibly both. Online will be restricted in size (unless you pay, and even
then you won't want to backup GBs over your broadband connection).

I've given up with Western Digital - currently using Samsung storystation
external drives which seem good. YMMV.

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

As I say, dropbox is simple and free (and limited). External drives I would
currently go for samsung but they are much the same I suspect.

Software wise I suspect others will know better. Doesn't windows backup
"do" now? I'm a Mac and solaris person really.

Cheersm,

Darren

On 04/04/2010 13:35, The Medway Handyman wrote:
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes& the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?


What you haven't done is tell us how much 'stuff' you've got. As already
mentioned, DropBox can be very useful for 2GB (free). And Google allows
up to 8GB total (think that includes mail - but you can have multiple
accounts).

http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=50092&hl=en_GB

But you also need to think about what exactly you would do if you lost
your current PC. You need to consider applications (no good buying a PC
and either not having the applications you need or finding they don't
work under the Windows 7 you have found on your replacement machine).
And could you borrow someone else's machine for a while?

And how you would recover from your backup? Make sure that you can
actually do so. In fact, I would recommend backup your your whole PC
using whatever backup tool and also backing up documents separately.

Online storage, memory stick, USB drive, NAS drive - all fine but don't
rely on just one.

Make sure you have details of all user names, passwords, unlock codes,
etc. for when you took the backup/installed the software/etc.

For a basic backup, the standard Windows ntbackup.exe is possibly
usable. But you might need to manually install it from the CD in Windows XP.

--
Rod

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 13:43:03 +0100, Clive George wrote:

Definitely get an external HD of some kind - NAS or USB. They're not
expensive.

Sorely tempted by a 500GB "Seagate Expansion" USB drive for £50 in
Tesco Bathgate (nr Edinburgh) last night.

If going USB, one which doesn't need an external PSU is much more
convenient - eg WD My Passport drive.

True but may well indicate that the drive inside is a "laptop" drive.
These do not have the life rating of proper desk top drives. Think a
few tens of thousands hours for a laptop drive against a few 100's of
thousands of hours for a desktop drive. Life hours probably isn't a
problem for this application unless it really is spinning 24/7
(unlikely) but it also says some thing about the overall reliabilty.

Online backup seems like a really good idea, but I have no experience of
who, if anybody, can be trusted in that field.

I don't trust any body but me with my data... Which company had a
"whoopsie" fairly recently and lost a loads of peoples data? Some
mobile phone type gadget was involved.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 14:43:54 +0100, DavidM wrote:

I use Genie Backup Manager, and take an image of my C: drive every so
often (manually initiated), plus an automatic backup every time I
first login each day.

Doesn't that slow the machine/network down just when you want to use
it? And surely you want a backup done when you log off rather than on
so things that you have just created/changed are backed up ASAP.

Each user on the windows boxes here has Second Copy
http://www.centered.com/ run when they log off which copies anything
new/changed to their area on the server. Stuff that is deleted, or
the previous copy of changed stuff, gets shuffled into an "archive"
directory in their area.

The archives just build up but I have a script that goes through them
deleteing anything older than 30 days just before the weekly full
backup of the server to a NAS drive. There are daily incrementals of
the server as well and 3 sets of full/incrementals.

--
Cheers
Dave.

I use 2 USB HDs, problem is, they have more info on them than the pc. I.e,
once stored on both drives I delete a load of stuff from the pc to make more
space. So, is there an easy way to keep adding data to them without manually
checking if it's already there? Presumably if I used an incremental backup
it would delete files if they weren't on the pc? Or maybe not?

On 04/04/2010 22:43, brass monkey wrote:
I use 2 USB HDs, problem is, they have more info on them than the pc. I.e,
once stored on both drives I delete a load of stuff from the pc to make more
space. So, is there an easy way to keep adding data to them without manually
checking if it's already there? Presumably if I used an incremental backup
it would delete files if they weren't on the pc? Or maybe not?


SyncToy.
Sync Center.
RoboCopy.
Xcopy.

Assuming Windows, depends on version what options you have. All the
above have options like "copy every file that does not already exist on
the target drive", "copy only if updated at a later date/time than the
one already on the target drive".

All are either standard components of some version(s) of Windows or are
freely downloadable.

--
Rod

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

So far nobody seems to have mentioned the backup utility which comes
included with Windows.
Control Panel has a backup and restore feature which can back up part or all
of your filestore.
This is fairly simple and straightforward - AFAIK the add on products are
aimed at providing more features than you get as standard with Windows.
If you only want the occasional backup then use the built in software.
If you want automated scheduled backups which only pick up files which have
changed (incremental) then you may need more sophisticated software.

How much do you want to back up?
If it is more than will fit on a single DVD then you may have to back up
different parts of your system to different DVDs.
One way is to back up to your internal disc (if you have space) then copy
the backup file(s) to DVD.

I haven't backed anything up recently so I haven't used the tool under
Windows Vista but it looks to have enough features.

With your Norton 360 is it possible that you are trying to back up more than
one DVD's worth of data and the software is too stupid to tell you this
clearly? Perhaps try backing up a small area of filestore and see if this
works?

HTH

Dave R

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:33:48 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 14:43:54 +0100, DavidM wrote:

I use Genie Backup Manager, and take an image of my C: drive every so
often (manually initiated), plus an automatic backup every time I
first login each day.

Doesn't that slow the machine/network down just when you want to use
it? And surely you want a backup done when you log off rather than on
so things that you have just created/changed are backed up ASAP.

At the time I couldn't find anything that would let me run the backup
program on logoff, and anyway there's usually someone else in the
family queueing to use the PC when I finish with it. I've set Genie to
run with low priority, so while it does slow things down a little the
machine is by no means unuseable.


Each user on the windows boxes here has Second Copy
http://www.centered.com/ run when they log off

Is this a feature of Second Copy, if not how does it get triggered?

David

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:02:06 +0100, DavidM wrote:

Doesn't that slow the machine/network down just when you want to
use
it? And surely you want a backup done when you log off rather than
on
so things that you have just created/changed are backed up ASAP.

At the time I couldn't find anything that would let me run the backup
program on logoff, and anyway there's usually someone else in the
family queueing to use the PC when I finish with it.

There is quite oftena queue here as well but the delay is normally
fairly short as it only does things that are new/changed. If some one
has downloaded a couple of programmes from iPlayer (ie a gig or so)
it does take a while but if you wanted you could exclude the iplayer
filestore from the directroies SecondCopy looks in.

Is this a feature of Second Copy, if not how does it get triggered?

Running at logoff is a feature of SecondCopy. IIRC you can have
logon, logoff, manual and scheduled.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Rod" wrote in message
...
On 04/04/2010 22:43, brass monkey wrote:
I use 2 USB HDs, problem is, they have more info on them than the pc.
I.e,
once stored on both drives I delete a load of stuff from the pc to make
more
space. So, is there an easy way to keep adding data to them without
manually
checking if it's already there? Presumably if I used an incremental
backup
it would delete files if they weren't on the pc? Or maybe not?


SyncToy.
Sync Center.
RoboCopy.
Xcopy.

Assuming Windows, depends on version what options you have. All the above
have options like "copy every file that does not already exist on the
target drive", "copy only if updated at a later date/time than the one
already on the target drive".

All are either standard components of some version(s) of Windows or are
freely downloadable.

Cheers for that, Rod.

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but
I don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

So far nobody seems to have mentioned the backup utility which comes
included with Windows.
Control Panel has a backup and restore feature which can back up part or
all of your filestore.
This is fairly simple and straightforward - AFAIK the add on products are
aimed at providing more features than you get as standard with Windows.
If you only want the occasional backup then use the built in software.
If you want automated scheduled backups which only pick up files which
have changed (incremental) then you may need more sophisticated software.

How much do you want to back up?
If it is more than will fit on a single DVD then you may have to back up
different parts of your system to different DVDs.
One way is to back up to your internal disc (if you have space) then copy
the backup file(s) to DVD.

I haven't backed anything up recently so I haven't used the tool under
Windows Vista but it looks to have enough features.

With your Norton 360 is it possible that you are trying to back up more
than one DVD's worth of data and the software is too stupid to tell you
this clearly? Perhaps try backing up a small area of filestore and see if
this works?

HTH

Dave R
What you do for back up depends on what your priorities are, ie is it years
worth of business information that would be a pain if you lost or is it the
windows system?

I back up important information but not the windows system as one can access
via another PC if need be.
I also take the view that if my PC goes bang then a back up within that PC
will more than likely be lost as well.
So what I have done is this....
My important stuff is backed up on an old hardrive installed alongside the
hardrive in my PC, back up No 1.
I then have an external hardive (cost around £40) which is a further back up
so I could take this to another PC if necessary to access my important
information, back up No 2.

I feel this covers me as I now have 2 back ups, one in my pc and if that
goes up in flames I have my external as well.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote:

I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

At least use two sticks, they have a limited life and can fail (or get
lost!).

Storage and software are cheap compared to cost of losing data.


I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Suggest seeking alternatives to Norton, many find it faulty and
resource heavy.


Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?

On-line backup is OK for moderate amounts of data but several
companies have had data and access loss so should not be sole option.
Privacy/security may also be an issue.

Windows backup can save documents (and settings?) which may be enough
for you.

I use Acronis with a USB drive to take full backups each month and
incrementals in between on automatic schedule.
Current version can manage backup storage automatically, deleting
oldest data when new exceeds free space.
Now I would use a NAS so can be away from PC to avoid loss of both in
case of fire/theft etc.
By backing up the whole PC I am sure I have all data and if the PC
fails I can quickly restore all applications and settings rather than
having to re-install and re-setup email etc.

In my day job on big iron we duplex backups and off-site 1 copy to
ensure business continuity even if site is lost.

HTH

Paul.

Paul Harris :
By backing up the whole PC I am sure I have all data and if the PC
fails I can quickly restore all applications and settings rather than
having to re-install and re-setup email etc.

Like you, I back up the whole PC (weekly, to tape). And I agree that
it's good to have *all* the data. But if I needed to do a complete
restore[1], I'd take the opportunity to install Windows and the
applications from scratch, selectively copying files and registry
branches from the backup. It would be different if the job was urgent,
as it is in many businesses.


[1] I've got tapes stretching back to 1994. I've never[2] needed to do a
complete restore, except as part of a planned hardware upgrade.

[2] Touch wood.

--
Mike Barnes

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:19:13 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 13:43:03 +0100, Clive George wrote:

Definitely get an external HD of some kind - NAS or USB. They're not
expensive.

Sorely tempted by a 500GB "Seagate Expansion" USB drive for £50 in
Tesco Bathgate (nr Edinburgh) last night.

I had/have a Seagate (250GB) one. Niggles included the fact that it used
a bulky wall-wart rather than integrated PSU (and "kettle lead"), the
fact that it was tall and thin (so could be knocked over easily), and the
fact that it'd automatically spin down after x minutes of inactivity
(increasing potential for failure - drives generally don't like lots of
stop-start cycles)

I ended up tearing the guts out of it and re-homing it in a more sensible
case (complete with 5V PSU). Never completely fixed the auto-spin-down
issue, which is irritating - but as it's just used for backups now (not
convenient extra space for my laptop) I don't have any need to keep it
plugged in and running for long.

cheers

Jules

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:17:42 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

[1] I've got tapes stretching back to 1994.

Perhaps an unfortunate choice of words! .-)

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Bob Eager :
On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:17:42 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

[1] I've got tapes stretching back to 1994.

Perhaps an unfortunate choice of words! .-)

DAT's a good point!

--
Mike Barnes

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 15:13:37 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

Bob Eager :
On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:17:42 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

[1] I've got tapes stretching back to 1994.

Perhaps an unfortunate choice of words! .-)

DAT's a good point!

That was a QIC response!

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:01:07 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

I had/have a Seagate (250GB) one. Niggles included the fact that it used
a bulky wall-wart rather than integrated PSU (and "kettle lead"),

Can't see why this kit would need a kettle lead a small fig 8 one
would do but I agree integrated PSU would be nice but that adds to
the cost. They can't just automatically make 10 million identical
units and then "regionalise" them by just adding the wall wart for
the destination region when they are manually packaged.

Having a USB powered device would be nice, no wall wart but I think
the negatives out weigh that convience. The negatives being that the
drive will probably be "laptop" spec and I can't site the drive
remotely from the server that it is backing up.

the fact that it was tall and thin (so could be knocked over easily),

That particular Seagate sits flat.

and the fact that it'd automatically spin down after x minutes of
inactivity (increasing potential for failure - drives generally don't
like lots of stop-start cycles)

Depends what makes it spin back up again. I have NAS drive in a cheap
enclosure but it is slow. A full back up takes around 18hrs for 30
odd Gig, the same drive in a networked PC only took a couple of
hours. The spin down delay time is configurable think I have it set
to 5 mins and AFAICT it doesn't spin up unless you really try to
access the drive. ie windows network chatter "I'm here, are you?"
stuff doesn't spin it back up.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:21:14 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:01:07 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

I had/have a Seagate (250GB) one. Niggles included the fact that it
used a bulky wall-wart rather than integrated PSU (and "kettle lead"),

Can't see why this kit would need a kettle lead a small fig 8 one would
do

Yep, true - although I quite like one standard lead for computer kit
rather than each of them doing their own thing. I think any case (with
adequate ventilation around the drive) probably ends up being high enough
to take one of the sockets.

but I agree integrated PSU would be nice but that adds to the cost.
They can't just automatically make 10 million identical units and then
"regionalise" them by just adding the wall wart for the destination
region when they are manually packaged.

Yeah, I can understand why they did it - I just don't like wall-warts as
they often get in the way of adjacent stuff (and they have a habit of
falling out of the ****ty things that pass for plug sockets here in the
US :-)

Having a USB powered device would be nice, no wall wart but I think the
negatives out weigh that convience. The negatives being that the drive
will probably be "laptop" spec and I can't site the drive remotely from
the server that it is backing up.

Oh yes - agree with that totally; I wouldn't want one powered solely via
USB for that same reason.

the fact that it was tall and thin (so could be knocked over easily),

That particular Seagate sits flat.

Given it's 500GB rather than the 250 I have, I assume it's a more recent
model (I got mine in 2007) - sounds like they fixed that particular flaw.

and the fact that it'd automatically spin down after x minutes of
inactivity (increasing potential for failure - drives generally don't
like lots of stop-start cycles)

Depends what makes it spin back up again. I have NAS drive in a cheap
enclosure but it is slow. A full back up takes around 18hrs for 30 odd
Gig, the same drive in a networked PC only took a couple of hours. The
spin down delay time is configurable think I have it set to 5 mins and
AFAICT it doesn't spin up unless you really try to access the drive. ie
windows network chatter "I'm here, are you?" stuff doesn't spin it back
up.

This one is configurable in terms of delay, but the delay feature can't
be turned off completely - and given how start-up's the most "stressful"
time for a drive, I'd like to reduce the frequency of starts as much as
possible (energy-saving be damned).

In the early days of having it, it caused a few headaches too because the
drive would spin-down due to inactivity, and access would wake it back up
again (that being a function of the controller that the drive was plugged
into) - but the OS (Linux) assumed* it was an "always on" disk and so any
access would fail until the drive was back up to speed.

* I found a way of configuring it so that wasn't the case, but it still
had to be done every time the drive was plugged in. Thankfully modern
kernels seem to be 'fixed' and spot that it's a removable disk, so they
check and wait for spin-up automatically.

cheers

Jules

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?



you do know that Virginmedia offer 5Gb of online Storage/backup free to
customers.

Ok its perhaps not the most secure or safest out there, but the chances of
both it and your PC having a catastrophic event at exactly the some time are
slim.

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginm...find-out-more/

or even Unlimited if you are on XXL.



--

Mike

Mike wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message ...
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory
stick, but I don't backup general stuff - which could be an
inconvenience if anything happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it
doesn't work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD
isn't empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK
with everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies
or buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?



you do know that Virginmedia offer 5Gb of online Storage/backup free
to customers.

I didn't!

Ok its perhaps not the most secure or safest out there, but the
chances of both it and your PC having a catastrophic event at exactly
the some time are slim.

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginm...find-out-more/

or even Unlimited if you are on XXL.

I am on there top package - cheers Mike.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
Mike wrote:

you do know that Virginmedia offer 5Gb of online Storage/backup free to
customers.

Indeed. The worlds slowest backup system :-)

Ok its perhaps not the most secure or safest out there, but the chances of
both it and your PC having a catastrophic event at exactly the some time are
slim.

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginm...find-out-more/

or even Unlimited if you are on XXL.

I've unlimited - I'm not sure I could ever get to 5GB tbh. It's *painfully*
slow (and the client leaves rather a lot to be desired).

I like dropbox, dead easy to use. Vstuff is a poor substitute (I suspect
it's deliberately slow to stop people using it too much).

Still, worth a try if it's an option for you.

Darren

On 5 Apr, 18:11, dmc@puffin. (D.M.Chapman) wrote:
In article ,

Mike wrote:
you do know that Virginmedia offer 5Gb of online Storage/backup free to
customers.

Indeed. The worlds slowest backup system :-)

Ok its perhaps not the most secure or safest out there, but the chances of
both it and your PC having a catastrophic event at exactly the some time are
slim.

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginm...find-out-more/

or even Unlimited if you are on XXL.

I've unlimited - I'm not sure I could ever get to 5GB tbh. It's *painfully*
slow (and the client leaves rather a lot to be desired).

I like dropbox, dead easy to use. Vstuff is a poor substitute (I suspect
it's deliberately slow to stop people using it too much).

Still, worth a try if it's an option for you.

Darren

Unless it has improved dramatically in the last few months, the Virgin
thing is a pile of ****e. I've just started using Dropbox, and it
really couldn't be simpler

On Apr 4, 1:35*pm, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. *Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. *Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?


You need a hard drive (or 2) to backup to. These can be externals, or
if you dont mind taking case off and powering down when you want to
back up they could be internal drives. There's really no other optoin
that compares.

2 hdds rather than one gives you some protection against malware,
corruption and unnoticed deletion, which are also an issue IRL. Just
back up to each one alternately, so you've got 2 backup generations
not one.

Dont forget to disconnect the backup drive after the job's done, else
it'll be as vulnerable as the data on the pc. Store one offsite if
possible.

More frequent minbackups of vital stuff can be done to usb stick.

Most of us are at the point now where our data is worth far more than
the pc, and if its not backed up it will be lost sooner or later,
pretty much guaranteed.

No software is needed to do a backup. Just copy the lot over. Software
was of use when you needed to compress data onto a small drive,
nowadays the disadvantages of doing that outweigh the advantage.


NT

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...

I had/have a Seagate (250GB) one. Niggles included the fact that it used
a bulky wall-wart rather than integrated PSU (and "kettle lead"), the
fact that it was tall and thin (so could be knocked over easily), and the
fact that it'd automatically spin down after x minutes of inactivity
(increasing potential for failure - drives generally don't like lots of
stop-start cycles)

Laptop drives are designed for thousands of stop start cycles at the
expensive of not being as reliable as desktop drives when left running.

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:15:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...

I had/have a Seagate (250GB) one. Niggles included the fact that it
used a bulky wall-wart rather than integrated PSU (and "kettle lead"),
the fact that it was tall and thin (so could be knocked over easily),
and the fact that it'd automatically spin down after x minutes of
inactivity (increasing potential for failure - drives generally don't
like lots of stop-start cycles)

Laptop drives are designed for thousands of stop start cycles at the
expensive of not being as reliable as desktop drives when left running.

I suspect they're not "designed" as such - it's merely a by-product of
having less rotating mass, and hence less stress on the spindle motor...

" wrote in
message
...
On 5 Apr, 18:11, dmc@puffin. (D.M.Chapman) wrote:
In article ,

Mike wrote:
you do know that Virginmedia offer 5Gb of online Storage/backup free to
customers.

Indeed. The worlds slowest backup system :-)

Ok its perhaps not the most secure or safest out there, but the chances
of
both it and your PC having a catastrophic event at exactly the some time
are
slim.

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginm...find-out-more/

or even Unlimited if you are on XXL.

I've unlimited - I'm not sure I could ever get to 5GB tbh. It's
*painfully*
slow (and the client leaves rather a lot to be desired).

I like dropbox, dead easy to use. Vstuff is a poor substitute (I suspect
it's deliberately slow to stop people using it too much).

Still, worth a try if it's an option for you.

Darren

Unless it has improved dramatically in the last few months, the Virgin
thing is a pile of ****e. I've just started using Dropbox, and it
really couldn't be simpler

It works ok for me i upload during the day and get 85% of my quoted upload
speed, admittedly i don't have an enormous amount of data to save and only
upload a few hundred Mb at a time.



--

Mike

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
I save anything vital like my business accounts on to a memory stick, but I
don't backup general stuff - which could be an inconvenience if anything
happened.

I have Norton 360 which has a built in back up feature - but it doesn't
work. Drives me mad.

Everytime it reaches the stage 'Insert DVD' it them claims the DVD isn't
empty. Tried loads of different makes & the DVD slot works OK with
everything else.

So, would I be better off with one of these online backup companies or
buying some kind of external device?

If the latter, any suggestions to a PC numpty?


Here is my tuppence.

As others have said you need layers of backup, and I'd add, you need it
to work automatically. If it needs manual intervention it will fail due
to human failure sooner or later. I'd also want anything important
business wise to be backed up off site somewhere.

We have a server in the cellar, with a couple of pcs and laptops dotted
around. Most data lives on the server so is at least in one place. For
stuff that remains on the local PC's it is backed up to the server
automatically. Currently Sync Toy runs to copy the stuff over.

I use Fileback PC - which is a paid for program, I've been using it
for years and it's always been reliable. It has all sorts of options for
backups.

Data is backed up to a ITB external HDD (in this case WD Green drive in
a Summvision external case. Fileback is set to keep multiple copies of
files for IIRC 30 days. I've recently taken to having 2 external drives
and swopping them round with one stored at my parents house, but this
relies on me and may only happen every few weeks at best.

So I also use an online service, in my case Mozy.com. Yes I'm trusting
my data to a third party, but this is a last resort backup, if the
house burns down/gets flooded or all my local copies get destroyed for
some reason. We have the paid for service (the cost is small compared
to how much we value some of the data), so have an unlimited amount of
backup space. We do have a lot of stuff backed up there, as the photos
etc. are backed up there. If I ever needed to do a full restore from
there it would either take quite a long time to download it all again or
cost a lot to have it burnt to DVD and sent.

But really I don't envisage that really being necessary except in
extremis, as hopefully all but at worst the last few weeks data will be
sitting at my parents house.

I've never had to do a major data restore from there in anger. I do the
occasional test restore of some of the data, and have restored small
amount of data for real (the 30 days of changed files it stores has been
useful few times)

I also use Dropbox for file sharing/access and that would also work well
for backing up important files
--
Chris French