Hi,

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers? I've been
buying whatever I could find in the sheds; previously they were 3M,
this time it was something by Harris. I've been trying to cut some MDF
so I needed a mask but even adjusting the bit round the nose I was
getting my glasses steamed up. Has anyone found a make that doesn't do
this?

TIA

Fred wrote:
Hi,

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers? I've been
buying whatever I could find in the sheds; previously they were 3M,
this time it was something by Harris. I've been trying to cut some MDF
so I needed a mask but even adjusting the bit round the nose I was
getting my glasses steamed up. Has anyone found a make that doesn't do
this?

TIA
I presume that you are talking about the disposable 'paper' type. I
have a similar problem which was mostly solved using a valved version.
Plastic grid in the front with a piece of thin rubber - breathe out ant
the flap opens to give an open passage to the air (little pressure so
little air forced around the nose seal), breathe in and the flap closes
to restore filtering

Malcolm

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:32:34 +0000, Malcolm wrote:

I presume that you are talking about the disposable 'paper' type.

Yes

I have a similar problem which was mostly solved using a valved version.

This Harris one is not valved but the 3M ones were. I can't remember
now but I think I still had the steam problem even with the valved
variety.

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:06:06 +0000
Fred wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers? I've been
buying whatever I could find in the sheds; previously they were 3M,
this time it was something by Harris. I've been trying to cut some MDF
so I needed a mask but even adjusting the bit round the nose I was
getting my glasses steamed up. Has anyone found a make that doesn't do
this?

TIA

In the end, being an asthmatic carpenter, I invested in a full face
mask with fan driven filtered air flow (by Trend). Expensive, but a
boon for anything dusty. It does 4 hours on a charge, but I have two
batteries.

R.

Fred wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:32:34 +0000, Malcolm wrote:

I presume that you are talking about the disposable 'paper' type.

Yes

I have a similar problem which was mostly solved using a valved
version.

This Harris one is not valved but the 3M ones were. I can't remember
now but I think I still had the steam problem even with the valved
variety.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

I have the same problem. These seem to work OK
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/11411/...-Mask-P3-Valve

On 2 Feb, 16:06, Fred wrote:

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers?

Mostly I wear a face shield against flying stuff. Under that I can
wear most sorts of mask, disposable paper for light stuff on-site, one-
month 3M disposable rubber or a good 3M silicone half mask with
replaceable filters. So long as you have an exhale valve and a paper
mask has the wire nosepiece adjusted, I don't get steam-up problems.

For goggles (i.e. sealed against dust), these orange-rimmed Uvex from
Axminster work well with glasses
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...sfile=1&jump=0

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...


http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13038/...IRATOR-_-13038

work exceedingly well, make a perfect seal to the face and have a valve to
direct the wet air away from glasses and to reduce airflow resistance.
They block particulates and vapour.

And screwfix claim they work for gases even though they are only P2 masks!

On 3 Feb, 13:51, "dennis@home" wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message

o.uk...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13038/...RATOR-_-13038#

They block particulates and vapour.

And screwfix claim they work for gases even though they are only P2 masks!

A "P2 mask" is something that Vatican masons wear.

Masks have ratings. They may have several ratings simultaneously. "P2"
is their rating against particulates, and doesn't have any indication
that a mask does or doesn't filter other contaminants too, such as
vapours.

That particular mask is one from the 3M 4000 disposable range. As it
appears to have a brown & white tag on the valve it's a 4200 series,
which have a carbon filter as well as fibre, so they're are also good
against simpler organic vapours. As it's cheap and only claims to be
P2 not P3, it's probably the entry-level 4251 that should cost about
15 quid, or less in boxes. Common as muck, and a good basic mask. If
you teach short workshop courses, you're probably handing these out to
every student - they have a 1 month life without COSHH paperwork and
work out cheaper than disposables.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:30:19 +0000, TheOldFellow
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:06:06 +0000
Fred wrote:

Hi,

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers? I've been
buying whatever I could find in the sheds; previously they were 3M,
this time it was something by Harris. I've been trying to cut some MDF
so I needed a mask but even adjusting the bit round the nose I was
getting my glasses steamed up. Has anyone found a make that doesn't do
this?

TIA

In the end, being an asthmatic carpenter, I invested in a full face
mask with fan driven filtered air flow (by Trend). Expensive, but a
boon for anything dusty. It does 4 hours on a charge, but I have two
batteries.

R.

Seconded. Just bought a JSP Powercap. Staggeringly expensive and not
yet used in anger, but it looks promising. 8 hours on a charge.

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:28:52 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

I find its not worth titting about with the fold up ones. These on the
other hand:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13038/...IRATOR-_-13038

work exceedingly well, make a perfect seal to the face and have a valve
to direct the wet air away from glasses and to reduce airflow
resistance. They block particulates and vapour.

Thanks. How long does it last before you have to throw it away?
twenty-eight days has been mentioned in other replies. Is that 28 days
of use rather than 28 calendar days: mine might sit on the shelf that
long before being used depending on what I get round to doing!

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:16:11 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

In DIY use they last ages - I have had one for years that still seems
very effective and has not got any more difficult to breath through.

On order, thanks.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 2 Feb, 16:06, Fred wrote:

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers?

Mostly I wear a face shield against flying stuff. Under that I can
wear most sorts of mask, disposable paper for light stuff on-site, one-
month 3M disposable rubber or a good 3M silicone half mask with
replaceable filters. So long as you have an exhale valve and a paper
mask has the wire nosepiece adjusted, I don't get steam-up problems.

For goggles (i.e. sealed against dust), these orange-rimmed Uvex from
Axminster work well with glasses
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...sfile=1&jump=0

Are there any goggles more suited to heavy work?

I don't wear glasses but find that if I am doing heavy work that
builds up a sweat sealed goggles will soon steam up. I am not sure that
the protective glasses type are that effective from flying masonry for
example.

Andrew

On 4 Mar, 12:06, Andrew May wrote:

For goggles (i.e. sealed against dust), these orange-rimmed Uvex from
Axminster work well with glasses
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...=goggles&user_...

Are there any goggles more suited to heavy work?

What's "heavy work" ? Raising a sweat, or flinging hot fragments in
your mush?

The "Transformers" mask is pretty good as a set of spectacle-
compatible goggles with attached cheek shields.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-U...ield-21088.htm
A few stripes of silver gaffer and insulation tape on it and your kids
get to play Optimus Prime


Otherwise it's time for a headshield, hung off a brow band. I wear one
of those far more than I wear goggles. My half-masks (screw-on side
filters) will also fit underneath, if there's a dust or fume problem.
For a real fume problem (usually ammonia fuming) I wear a mil-surplus
full-face mask. An Avon S10 is good, easy to find and fairly cheap
(but go to a big surplus dealer and root through to find undamaged
ones). Although military masks have small eyepieces, they're designed
to allow accurate rifle shooting, so they're usually pretty good
optically.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 Mar, 12:06, Andrew May wrote:

For goggles (i.e. sealed against dust), these orange-rimmed Uvex from
Axminster work well with glasses
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...=goggles&user_...
Are there any goggles more suited to heavy work?

What's "heavy work" ? Raising a sweat, or flinging hot fragments in
your mush?

Raising a sweat. Most recently channelling out in dense brick and having
to reach up to do so. So not sure I would be comfortable using a face
mask rather than goggles. But goggles have a tendency to steam up quite
quickly.

Andrew

Andrew May wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 2 Feb, 16:06, Fred wrote:

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers?

Mostly I wear a face shield against flying stuff. Under that I can
wear most sorts of mask, disposable paper for light stuff on-site, one-
month 3M disposable rubber or a good 3M silicone half mask with
replaceable filters. So long as you have an exhale valve and a paper
mask has the wire nosepiece adjusted, I don't get steam-up problems.

For goggles (i.e. sealed against dust), these orange-rimmed Uvex from
Axminster work well with glasses
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...sfile=1&jump=0


Are there any goggles more suited to heavy work?

I don't wear glasses but find that if I am doing heavy work that builds
up a sweat sealed goggles will soon steam up. I am not sure that the
protective glasses type are that effective from flying masonry for example.

Many, many years ago I saw a gell demonstrated that stopped everyday
glasses from steaming up. I was told that it was made from soap. I have
never been active enough to want to try it, so a smear of hard soap
might be your answer.

Dave

Dave wrote:
Andrew May wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 2 Feb, 16:06, Fred wrote:

Can anyone advise of a good dust mask for spectacled DIYers?

Mostly I wear a face shield against flying stuff. Under that I can
wear most sorts of mask, disposable paper for light stuff on-site, one-
month 3M disposable rubber or a good 3M silicone half mask with
replaceable filters. So long as you have an exhale valve and a paper
mask has the wire nosepiece adjusted, I don't get steam-up problems.

For goggles (i.e. sealed against dust), these orange-rimmed Uvex from
Axminster work well with glasses
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...sfile=1&jump=0


Are there any goggles more suited to heavy work?

I don't wear glasses but find that if I am doing heavy work that
builds up a sweat sealed goggles will soon steam up. I am not sure
that the protective glasses type are that effective from flying
masonry for example.

Many, many years ago I saw a gell demonstrated that stopped everyday
glasses from steaming up. I was told that it was made from soap. I have
never been active enough to want to try it, so a smear of hard soap
might be your answer.

Dave
I remember that. Ideal Home show in the late 70's IIRC.

On 5 Mar, 10:30, Huge wrote:

From my diving days, the standard ways of preventing your mask from
steaming up were either to gob in it or smear it with soap or washing
up liquid.

Snot works better (clear, not aspirated), and you can even do this by
wiping a slug on the inside of your facemask.

Bristol's Department of Mucus Studies is just up the road, and you can
learn all sorts of stuff from them. From people obsessed with fondling
slugs, admittedly. Say hello, but I wouldn't want to shake hands.

Andrew May wrote:
Dave wrote:

Many, many years ago I saw a gell demonstrated that stopped everyday
glasses from steaming up. I was told that it was made from soap. I
have never been active enough to want to try it, so a smear of hard
soap might be your answer.

Dave
I remember that. Ideal Home show in the late 70's IIRC.

Bout the right era. But I remember it from about ten years earlier.

Dave

Huge wrote:
On 2010-03-05, Andrew May wrote:
Dave wrote:

Many, many years ago I saw a gell demonstrated that stopped everyday
glasses from steaming up. I was told that it was made from soap. I have
never been active enough to want to try it, so a smear of hard soap
might be your answer.

Dave
I remember that. Ideal Home show in the late 70's IIRC.

From my diving days,

Muff? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Dave

In message , Huge
writes
On 2010-03-05, Andrew May wrote:
Dave wrote:

Many, many years ago I saw a gell demonstrated that stopped everyday
glasses from steaming up. I was told that it was made from soap. I have
never been active enough to want to try it, so a smear of hard soap
might be your answer.

Dave
I remember that. Ideal Home show in the late 70's IIRC.

From my diving days, the standard ways of preventing your mask from
steaming up were either to gob in it or smear it with soap or washing
up liquid.

I'm not sure how useful any of these are in DIY, though!

Basically - anything that lowers the surface tension


--
geoff

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:42:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Tell us what you think when you have tried it!

Some time ago I was asking about dust masks that didn't steam up your
glasses. I had read some old posts here in which the late Mr Hall
recommended replaceable 3m filters, but I was confused about which of
the many filters I needed, so I never got round to buying any.

Then John Rumm recommended this 3m mask:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13038/...IRATOR-_-13038

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I have been using it occasionally for
a couple of months now and wanted to say that now I have had some
experience of it, I thoroughly recommend it. Just as John said, it
will not steam up your glasses, so anyone who, like me, was not sure
about spending the money, do go ahead and buy one.

It does look a bit strange when you get it out of the bag: there's a
funny head strap that goes on top of your head but in use, the mask is
very comfortable.

The only "problem" I have had is that there is a second strap that
fastens around the back of your head and I sometimes find it is too
low and presses on my neck. I wish I could work out how and where you
are supposed to fasten that comfortably.

HTH

On 12/06/2010 09:49, Fred wrote:


Then John Rumm recommended this 3m mask:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13038/...IRATOR-_-13038

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I have been using it occasionally for
a couple of months now and wanted to say that now I have had some
experience of it, I thoroughly recommend it. Just as John said, it
will not steam up your glasses, so anyone who, like me, was not sure
about spending the money, do go ahead and buy one.


Is it any good for dusty conditions, or only for gaseous hazards? [The
SF blurb doesn't seem to mention dust].
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:49:42 +0100, Fred wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:42:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Tell us what you think when you have tried it!

Some time ago I was asking about dust masks that didn't steam up your
glasses. I had read some old posts here in which the late Mr Hall
recommended replaceable 3m filters, but I was confused about which of
the many filters I needed, so I never got round to buying any.

Then John Rumm recommended this 3m mask:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13038/...IRATOR-_-13038

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I have been using it occasionally for
a couple of months now and wanted to say that now I have had some
experience of it, I thoroughly recommend it. Just as John said, it
will not steam up your glasses, so anyone who, like me, was not sure
about spending the money, do go ahead and buy one.

It does look a bit strange when you get it out of the bag: there's a
funny head strap that goes on top of your head but in use, the mask is
very comfortable.

The only "problem" I have had is that there is a second strap that
fastens around the back of your head and I sometimes find it is too
low and presses on my neck. I wish I could work out how and where you
are supposed to fasten that comfortably.

HTH

Thanks for the report and link - wish I'd known about this a month ago!
Just been getting the old insulation out of the loft. The cheap, valved
masks work (judging by all the crap on the outside) but my specs misted up
and the goggles over them had water actually trickling down inside!
I just couldn't get the mask to seal fully around my nose; it seemed to be
OK for inhaling (good thing) but air came out and into the mask.

Bit late now, but I'll get one of the 3M ones. One of the reviews mentioned
prefilters but I couldn't see any on the page.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:05:02 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

The only "problem" I have had is that there is a second strap that
fastens around the back of your head and I sometimes find it is
too
low and presses on my neck. I wish I could work out how and where
you
are supposed to fasten that comfortably.

I think it is supposed to go around your neck.

I don't have that mask but do have a 3M half mask. The lower strap
does go around your neck but very high up pretty much at the base of
the skull.

The trick is to set each strap to a loose setting, put it all on, and
then pull them tight enough to get a good seal,

And the mask needs to be the right size for your face as well. If you
block up the inlets(*) and breath in the mask should stay on your
face without any straps. Yes, they do come in different sizes but
finding them in the retail chain isn't easy. Arco list the 3M 6000
and 7500 half face masks in the three sizes.

(*) Might be tricky if the filter units don't detach, which I don't
think they do on the Screwfix 3M one as it's "maintenance free". This
also means that it should be disposed of a month after starting to be
used. A mask with replaceable filters, only the filters need
replacing.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:32:57 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

Is it any good for dusty conditions, or only for gaseous hazards? [The
SF blurb doesn't seem to mention dust].

It works with dust; that's the reason I bought it. I have used it when
wall chasing, drilling into brick walls, sawing and it has worked
perfectly in my experience. I didn't know it worked with gases.
Perhaps there's a layer of carbon hidden inside to trap vapours? What
gaseous hazards does a DIYer encounter: paint fumes?

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:45:23 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

Thanks for the report and link - wish I'd known about this a month ago!
Just been getting the old insulation out of the loft. The cheap, valved
masks work (judging by all the crap on the outside) but my specs misted up
and the goggles over them had water actually trickling down inside!
I just couldn't get the mask to seal fully around my nose; it seemed to be
OK for inhaling (good thing) but air came out and into the mask.

I forgot to add to my earlier reply that I also used this mask to work
with insulation and plaster dust.

I had exactly the same problems as you. If I wore glasses and valved
paper mask then my glasses steamed up and I couldn't see what I was
doing. That left a difficult decision: remove the mask and choke or
remove my glasses and still not be able to see what I was doing! I
struggled with the paper filters for far too long and wish I had
bought this one sooner. It looks huge when you remove it from the bag
but when you wear it, you almost don't realise it is there.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:56:06 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I don't have that mask but do have a 3M half mask. The lower strap
does go around your neck but very high up pretty much at the base of
the skull.

Thanks. I guess I just need to slacken mine a little so that it
doesn't press so hard.

they do come in different sizes but
finding them in the retail chain isn't easy. Arco list the 3M 6000
and 7500 half face masks in the three sizes.


I did consider a mask with replaceable filters but Arco was the only
seller I had heard of and I was nervous about buying from an unknown
company. I think the sites I found (via google) were selling boxes of
thirty filters, which might be ok if you wear the mask every day and
need to change filters regularly but it seemed over the top for DIY
use. Also there were so many different filters to choose from; I
wasn't sure which ones to buy. What do you fit to your mask?

(*) Might be tricky if the filter units don't detach, which I don't
think they do on the Screwfix 3M one as it's "maintenance free". This
also means that it should be disposed of a month after starting to be
used. A mask with replaceable filters, only the filters need
replacing.

The fact that this is a disposable filter made me delay buying it
because it seemed expensive to buy it and throw it away a month later
but I think the monthly rule is only for business use and if business
users are wearing it every day then it's probably a good idea to
replace it then. I am hoping that for DIY use it will last longer,
only I am not sure when I will know it is time to replace it. Perhaps
the strap will fall off or the filters will be black and I will know
it's time to buy a new one!

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:58:48 +0100, Fred wrote:

What gaseous hazards does a DIYer encounter: paint fumes?

Or paint striper fumes. I wore my particulate/organic fumes mask when
nitromosing a door in the garage with the up and over door open.
Didn't detect any niff at all inside the mask, took it off for a
cuppa and first breath of the "atmosphere" inside the garage had me
dashing for the outside double quick...

A proper half mask really is the business for dealing with dusty and
with the right filters fumey enviroments. Any of the paper things are
next to useless, they'll keep some dust out but they never
effectively seal to the face so leak around the edges.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:15:38 +0100, Fred wrote:

Thanks. I guess I just need to slacken mine a little so that it
doesn't press so hard.

Just needs to hold the bottom of the mask against your chin to seal,
no need to be tight.

I did consider a mask with replaceable filters but Arco was the only
seller I had heard of and I was nervous about buying from an unknown
company.

Arco are hardly "unknown" they are big supplier of PPE to industry
for a long time (est.1884) with warehouses/trade counters in many
places.I think there has been a bit of move to more "retail" selling
in recent years.

I think the sites I found (via google) were selling boxes of thirty
filters,

That is a bit of a snag. The box I have "expired" in 2002 but they
are in sealed plastic bags (well those that haven't started to
biodegrade are...) and my main use is for dust protection rather than
fumes.

Also there were so many different filters to choose from; I wasn't sure
which ones to buy. What do you fit to your mask?

3M 2128, these are P2 particulate and "nuisance level" organic vapour
and acid gases. A google will probably find what size particulates a
P2 or P3 filter deals with and what the other filter codes mean.

The fact that this is a disposable filter made me delay buying it
because it seemed expensive to buy it and throw it away a month later
but I think the monthly rule is only for business use

Yes that is the H&S rules that really only apply to business use.
Common sense in the DIY enviroment. If I was to do something "fumey"
I'd chnage the filters for new ones from one of the sealed bags and
pay attention for any detectable niffs whilst in use.

only I am not sure when I will know it is time to replace it. Perhaps
the strap will fall off ...

The plastic frame of mine has snapped in a couple of places, stitched
back together and taped up, failed again. SWMBO'd has replaced it
with two bits of flat elastic.

or the filters will be black and I will know it's time to buy a new one!

Only if your dust is black...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:57:34 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Arco are hardly "unknown" they are big supplier of PPE to industry
for a long time (est.1884) with warehouses/trade counters in many
places.I think there has been a bit of move to more "retail" selling
in recent years.

Sorry, perhaps I didn't type that as clearly as I could have. I have
heard, and indeed bought, from arco and I would have been happy to buy
from them if only I had known what to buy. Google found several other
sellers that I hadn't heard of and it was those that I was reluctant
to buy from.

Common sense in the DIY enviroment. If I was to do something "fumey"
I'd chnage the filters for new ones from one of the sealed bags and
pay attention for any detectable niffs whilst in use.

I hadn't realised my disposable filter also did fumes; I'll remember
your advice about wearing it when using nitromors. Like you say, you
can tell when to renew the filter when smells start to pass through
but I don't know how you would tell when the dust filter was ready to
be changed. As you pointed out, if it's not brick red or black dust,
the colour won't change visibly.

Hello again,

Just to say that I wore the mask whilst painting undercoat. I know
many people use the quick drying water based stuff but I still use the
high VOC type, I'm sure I was once told it was better, but I forget
why now. Am I missing out by not switching? Anyway, back to the point:
I could not smell the paint whilst wearing the mask, nor could I smell
the copious amounts of white spirits used to clean the brushes
afterwards, so yes, it does indeed filter smells.

HTH