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Default Distributing satellite TV around the house

A thought occurs to me regarding the method I'm currently employing to
receive SKY TV in the bedrooms.

At the moment I have the downlead from the aeriel going to the Sattelite
receiver, then back up to a TV booster which distributes the combined
signals around the home.

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of analogue
signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?

Just a thought!

--
Best Wishes
Simon Taylor



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"Simon (Dark Angel)" contact me through my website wrote in message
...
A thought occurs to me regarding the method I'm currently employing to
receive SKY TV in the bedrooms.

At the moment I have the downlead from the aeriel going to the Sattelite
receiver, then back up to a TV booster which distributes the combined
signals around the home.

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of analogue
signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?

Just a thought!

--
Best Wishes
Simon Taylor



You misunderstand! Transmitters are going digital!
Unless you choose to alter the way your signal is
distributed - nothing will change.


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Simon (Dark Angel) wrote:
A thought occurs to me regarding the method I'm currently employing to
receive SKY TV in the bedrooms.

At the moment I have the downlead from the aeriel going to the Sattelite
receiver, then back up to a TV booster which distributes the combined
signals around the home.

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of analogue
signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?

Just a thought!

the digital terrestrial signals are on similar frequencies to the
analogue ones, so any distribution that works for analogue terrestrial
should work for digital terrestrial. About the satellite stuff, I simply
haven't a clue.
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Default Distributing satellite TV around the house

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:24:30 -0000, Simon \(Dark Angel\) wrote:

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of analogue
signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?


That distribution will still work but you will need DTTV sets or set
top boxes for each analogue TV.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default Distributing satellite TV around the house

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:55:53 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:24:30 -0000, Simon \(Dark Angel\) wrote:

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of analogue
signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?


That distribution will still work but you will need DTTV sets or set
top boxes for each analogue TV.


I'm not sure whether the OP is asking the opposite question - ie:
distribution from the satellite receiver is analogue around the house, but
will analogue input still be supported by any new TVs in the future?

This is a question that I was going to be looking at soon, as I want a
small flat TV to replace an old CRT one, but need it to receive analogue
signals from a number of devices.

This would also be a question for those distributing signals from a PC
using a TV-OUT option.

SteveW


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On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 21:05:26 +0000, Steve Walker wrote:

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of
analogue signals any more, will I still be able to use this

method ?

That distribution will still work but you will need DTTV sets or

set
top boxes for each analogue TV.


I'm not sure whether the OP is asking the opposite question - ie:
distribution from the satellite receiver is analogue around the house,
but will analogue input still be supported by any new TVs in the future?


Could be read that way I guess. I should imagine all current
"digital" TVs will also have analogue tuners in them. What will
happen post 2012 is anybodies guess.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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"Steve Walker" wrote in message ...
I'm not sure whether the OP is asking the opposite question - ie:
distribution from the satellite receiver is analogue around the house, but
will analogue input still be supported by any new TVs in the future?


That was the point I was indeed making, sorry for not being clearer.

Yes, it suddenly occured to me that future TV sets, in all likelihood, won't
support analogue reception, so how would one go about receiving signals from
the RF out on ones receiver?


--
Best Wishes
Simon Taylor


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"Simon (Dark Angel)" contact me through my website wrote in message
...

"Steve Walker" wrote in message ...
I'm not sure whether the OP is asking the opposite question - ie:
distribution from the satellite receiver is analogue around the house,
but
will analogue input still be supported by any new TVs in the future?


That was the point I was indeed making, sorry for not being clearer.

Yes, it suddenly occured to me that future TV sets, in all likelihood,
won't support analogue reception, so how would one go about receiving
signals from the RF out on ones receiver?


--
Best Wishes
Simon Taylor



The simple answer is that you wouldn't be able to. You *could* distribute to
such a TV by using video rather than RF as, digital tuner only or not, you
will still almost certainly have analogue scart inputs. It would be a
'messy' solution though, involving three screened cables - one for video,
and two for sound. However, I think it is moderately unlikely that analogue
tuner inputs on TVs, are going to disappear anytime soon. There are still
many areas of the world that use analogue transmissions, and are likely to
for some years yet. The TV manufacturers probably won't waste production on
lots of different territory-specific models, but will continue to produce
'universal' ones that have both analogue and digital tuners.

As to whether an existing analogue distribution system will handle
terrestrial digital signals, that is actually not a given. Although the
frequencies involved are, as someone else commented, in the same band as the
existing transmissions, the various multiplexes that you can receive are
scattered from one end of that band to the other. Various non linearities in
the gain / bandwidth characteristics of any distribution amplifiers
involved, along with varying cable losses across the band, can result in
some multiplexes falling below acceptable quality at some points on the
network. Also, any existing distribution amplifiers involved, may well be
channelised to suit the 'group' that the original analogue signals fell in -
particularly if the distribution system was professionally installed, rather
than a DIY job using broadband components from Maplin or wherever.

I have a trunked distribution system in my house, that I put in some years
ago. It uses quality twin screen cable, and professional amplifiers and
tapper units. The analogue signals are nothing short of perfect at every
drop. The digital signals, however, are extremely variable at various
points. The situation was improved by replacing my existing group 'A' aerial
with a broadband type, but even so, when the analogue transmissions in my
area cease, I will probably have to give the system a major rework, with new
amplifiers etc, to achieve the same level of 'goodness' of signal at each
drop.

Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital
signals, that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the hype
about how 'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are actually a lot
less forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an awful lot to upset
them, particularly whilst the power levels of the transmitters carrying
them, are still low ...



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Arfa Daily wrote:


I have a trunked distribution system in my house, that I put in some years
ago. It uses quality twin screen cable, and professional amplifiers and
tapper units. The analogue signals are nothing short of perfect at every
drop. The digital signals, however, are extremely variable at various
points. The situation was improved by replacing my existing group 'A' aerial
with a broadband type, but even so, when the analogue transmissions in my
area cease, I will probably have to give the system a major rework, with new
amplifiers etc, to achieve the same level of 'goodness' of signal at each
drop.

Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital
signals, that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the hype
about how 'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are actually a lot
less forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an awful lot to upset
them, particularly whilst the power levels of the transmitters carrying
them, are still low ...



Well your experience is 100% opposite to mine. Digital terrestrial
through a distribution amp is perfectly as good as the analogue was.

If you have a decent amp, cable and socket quality is almost irrelevant.
If you have wired them up correctly of course,




But then perhaps I know what I am doing ;-)
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Default Distributing satellite TV around the house

Simon (Dark Angel) formulated the question :
A thought occurs to me regarding the method I'm currently employing to
receive SKY TV in the bedrooms.

At the moment I have the downlead from the aeriel going to the Sattelite
receiver, then back up to a TV booster which distributes the combined signals
around the home.

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of analogue
signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?

Just a thought!


Of course, it will continue to work, but only until you replace each TV
with digital only sets. I'm not aware of any sets sold or on sale which
are digital only, but no doubt once analogue is turned off everywhere -
the will start to sell them.

What you would do then, I do not know.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk




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Default Distributing satellite TV around the house

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Simon (Dark Angel) formulated the question :
A thought occurs to me regarding the method I'm currently employing to
receive SKY TV in the bedrooms.

At the moment I have the downlead from the aeriel going to the
Sattelite receiver, then back up to a TV booster which distributes the
combined signals around the home.

However, as TVs are going digital and not employing the use of
analogue signals any more, will I still be able to use this method ?

Just a thought!


Of course, it will continue to work, but only until you replace each TV
with digital only sets. I'm not aware of any sets sold or on sale which
are digital only, but no doubt once analogue is turned off everywhere -
the will start to sell them.

What you would do then, I do not know.


at which point one assumes that satellite boxes will start to feed MUXED
digital signals.

Arguably a better solution anyway.

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It happens that Arfa Daily formulated :
Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital signals,
that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the hype about how
'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are actually a lot less
forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an awful lot to upset them,
particularly whilst the power levels of the transmitters carrying them, are
still low ...


That is not my experience. We had an old antenna, feeding down via old
type 75ohm, to a distribution amp, then old 75ohm out to each room. In
a good to strong signal area, where the narrow band antenna was
supposedly just about adequate.

Only one TV set suffered badly on both analogue and digital, the one in
the kitchen. It's feed cable was replaced a couple of times over the
years, but despite cable, distribution outlet and TV swaps it always
remained poor on both digi and analogue - this is the second to
shortest cable run.

Other TV's on the system suffered the odd glitch in reception - A
couple of years ago I fitted a new larger wideband antenna and replaced
most of the feeds with the modern double fully screened cable described
as sat cable, then most of the problems finally went away. All the
feeds are run indoors, apart from a very short section leading out from
the loft to the antenna on the chimney. The kitchen reception improved
most of all, but it remains not quite as good as the rest.

I'm still using mostly Belling Lee plugs and sockets, but intend to
eventually swap everything over to F plugs when I get a roundtuit. I
ran some experiments, between the two and found this made not much
difference - hence the roundtuit.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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The Natural Philosopher submitted this idea :
at which point one assumes that satellite boxes will start to feed MUXED
digital signals.

Arguably a better solution anyway.


Agreed, but I have yet to come across an RF in to MUXED add on
converter.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:


I have a trunked distribution system in my house, that I put in some
years ago. It uses quality twin screen cable, and professional amplifiers
and tapper units. The analogue signals are nothing short of perfect at
every drop. The digital signals, however, are extremely variable at
various points. The situation was improved by replacing my existing group
'A' aerial with a broadband type, but even so, when the analogue
transmissions in my area cease, I will probably have to give the system a
major rework, with new amplifiers etc, to achieve the same level of
'goodness' of signal at each drop.

Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital
signals, that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the
hype about how 'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are
actually a lot less forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an
awful lot to upset them, particularly whilst the power levels of the
transmitters carrying them, are still low ...



Well your experience is 100% opposite to mine. Digital terrestrial through
a distribution amp is perfectly as good as the analogue was.

If you have a decent amp, cable and socket quality is almost irrelevant.
If you have wired them up correctly of course,




But then perhaps I know what I am doing ;-)



Ah. I see. My almost 40 years in the trade says I don't then ... Fair
enough. Do you know what a trunked distribution system is ?

Whether or not an existing system works (well) or not depends on many
things, including the antenna installation, any masthead preamps involved,
any combiners or diplexers involved, the quality of the cable used for the
drops to the various rooms, and that of the trunk cable if it happens to be
that sort of system, the age and quality of the distribution or trunk driver
amplifier, the quality of the wall sockets, the quality of the tappers on a
trunked system, and of course, how good the digital signal is in the first
place - both strength and quality, of course.

Most analogue distribution systems did not need to broadband. Digital ones
do.

But then I guess you know all that ... d;~}

Arfa


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"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message...
Agreed, but I have yet to come across an RF in to MUXED add on converter.


Thanks for the replies all, guess its a case of wait and see then!


--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
Dark Angel's Realm of Horror - http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk




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Arfa Daily wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

I have a trunked distribution system in my house, that I put in some
years ago. It uses quality twin screen cable, and professional amplifiers
and tapper units. The analogue signals are nothing short of perfect at
every drop. The digital signals, however, are extremely variable at
various points. The situation was improved by replacing my existing group
'A' aerial with a broadband type, but even so, when the analogue
transmissions in my area cease, I will probably have to give the system a
major rework, with new amplifiers etc, to achieve the same level of
'goodness' of signal at each drop.

Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital
signals, that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the
hype about how 'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are
actually a lot less forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an
awful lot to upset them, particularly whilst the power levels of the
transmitters carrying them, are still low ...



Well your experience is 100% opposite to mine. Digital terrestrial through
a distribution amp is perfectly as good as the analogue was.

If you have a decent amp, cable and socket quality is almost irrelevant.
If you have wired them up correctly of course,




But then perhaps I know what I am doing ;-)



Ah. I see. My almost 40 years in the trade says I don't then ...



Probably.


Fair
enough. Do you know what a trunked distribution system is ?

Whether or not an existing system works (well) or not depends on many
things, including the antenna installation, any masthead preamps involved,
any combiners or diplexers involved, the quality of the cable used for the
drops to the various rooms, and that of the trunk cable if it happens to be
that sort of system, the age and quality of the distribution or trunk driver
amplifier, the quality of the wall sockets, the quality of the tappers on a
trunked system, and of course, how good the digital signal is in the first
place - both strength and quality, of course.

Most analogue distribution systems did not need to broadband. Digital ones
do.

But then I guess you know all that ... d;~}


Most distribution amplifiers are 'DC to light' anyway.

If you have installed a bunch of tuned stuff anywhere than at the
masthead then all that does is prove my point: You don't really
understand what you are doing.


If you have not used correct buffered outputs that do not transfer
faults in one cable to another, it proves my point, you don't know what
you are doing.


If you cant correctly terminate a cable to a socket so you get
reflections and frequency dependent attenuation, it proves my point, you
don't know what you are doing.


The ONLY difference digital makes is that it uses a somewhat higher
bandwidth ..the only place that SHOULD be releavant is in any tuned
elements.

The only place ther SHOULD be tuned elements, is the aerial itself, and
if it has one, a masthead amp. Possibly.

There should be NO tuned elements in the distribution system, if its
been installed by someone who knows what they are doing, as opposed to
simply having repeated the same mistakes for 40 years.

I've met plenty of mechanics '40 years in the trade' who still cant
diagnose an injection fault.





Arfa


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If I could come in late and ask a very basic question: I don't
understand much of this thread, but is the conclusion that at some
point in the medium-term but foreseeable future that co-axial
distribution systems will be no good and new cables will need to be
installed? I currently have a LOT of co-ax and cat 5e festooned around
the house. If the co-ax becomes no good for the telly due to
digitisation will the cat 5 be any use?
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Martin Pentreath pretended :
If I could come in late and ask a very basic question: I don't
understand much of this thread, but is the conclusion that at some
point in the medium-term but foreseeable future that co-axial
distribution systems will be no good and new cables will need to be
installed? I currently have a LOT of co-ax and cat 5e festooned around
the house. If the co-ax becomes no good for the telly due to
digitisation will the cat 5 be any use?


The old type (generally brown) coax, with poor screening really needs
to be replaced with the much better quality couble screened coax (which
is generally black). This should have an outer, followed by a thin
copper overlapped tape, then a woven screen. Signal loss is less and it
is less susceptible to interferrance.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk


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"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

I have a trunked distribution system in my house, that I put in some
years ago. It uses quality twin screen cable, and professional
amplifiers and tapper units. The analogue signals are nothing short of
perfect at every drop. The digital signals, however, are extremely
variable at various points. The situation was improved by replacing my
existing group 'A' aerial with a broadband type, but even so, when the
analogue transmissions in my area cease, I will probably have to give
the system a major rework, with new amplifiers etc, to achieve the
same level of 'goodness' of signal at each drop.

Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital
signals, that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the
hype about how 'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are
actually a lot less forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an
awful lot to upset them, particularly whilst the power levels of the
transmitters carrying them, are still low ...



Well your experience is 100% opposite to mine. Digital terrestrial
through a distribution amp is perfectly as good as the analogue was.

If you have a decent amp, cable and socket quality is almost
irrelevant. If you have wired them up correctly of course,




But then perhaps I know what I am doing ;-)


Ah. I see. My almost 40 years in the trade says I don't then ...



Probably.


TNP in grumpy old git mode it seems!

Judging from Arfa's description of the system he has, that does not appear
to be likely in this case.

Fair enough. Do you know what a trunked distribution system is ?

Whether or not an existing system works (well) or not depends on many
things, including the antenna installation, any masthead preamps
involved, any combiners or diplexers involved, the quality of the cable
used for the drops to the various rooms, and that of the trunk cable if
it happens to be that sort of system, the age and quality of the
distribution or trunk driver amplifier, the quality of the wall sockets,
the quality of the tappers on a trunked system, and of course, how good
the digital signal is in the first place - both strength and quality, of
course.

Most analogue distribution systems did not need to broadband. Digital
ones do.


I take it you mean wideband? Most DTT installs will revert to grouped
operation after DSO - they have attempted to keep the number of non
grouped areas down to a minimum. In terms of channel bandwidth, the
spacing and bandwidth allocated is the same, although the DTT signal uses
the upper end of the channel more intensively than analogue.

But then I guess you know all that ... d;~}


Most distribution amplifiers are 'DC to light' anyway.

If you have installed a bunch of tuned stuff anywhere than at the
masthead then all that does is prove my point: You don't really
understand what you are doing.


Or the converse. "Difficult" installs that require pre distribution
filtering and levelling are rarely even attempted by non expert
installers. They are also difficult to conceive without proper test
equipment.

If you have not used correct buffered outputs that do not transfer faults
in one cable to another, it proves my point, you don't know what you are
doing.


Where did he say that? Did you get the bit about a trunked system with
taps?

If you cant correctly terminate a cable to a socket so you get
reflections and frequency dependent attenuation, it proves my point, you
don't know what you are doing.


The ONLY difference digital makes is that it uses a somewhat higher
bandwidth ..the only place that SHOULD be releavant is in any tuned
elements.


There are other differences as well. DTT is more succeptable to shot
noise, and ideally ought to have fully screened outlets, amps, connections
etc. Something that is not an issue for most analogue only distribution
systems.

The only place ther SHOULD be tuned elements, is the aerial itself, and
if it has one, a masthead amp. Possibly.


Again, this is an over simplification. Difficult locations and ones that
require multiple transmitter operation may quite often need filtering and
levelling. One may also require diplexers and other active components.
That is before you get to the issues of injecting other sources like CCTV
or door cams etc into a distribution system.

There should be NO tuned elements in the distribution system, if its


Other than where there should be that is...




--
Cheers,

John.



Quite. And yes, I did mean wideband. I've just got so used to saying
"broadband" in reference to the internet, that it accidentally slipped into
the sentence in this thread. And yes, my trunked system is quite complex, as
it carries analogue signals from two transmitters at opposite ends of the
band, as well as signals from a Sky box and a TiVo box and some CCTV as
well.

Arfa


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"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Arfa Daily wrote:

I have a trunked distribution system in my house, that I put in some
years ago. It uses quality twin screen cable, and professional amplifiers
and tapper units. The analogue signals are nothing short of perfect at
every drop. The digital signals, however, are extremely variable at
various points. The situation was improved by replacing my existing group
'A' aerial with a broadband type, but even so, when the analogue
transmissions in my area cease, I will probably have to give the system a
major rework, with new amplifiers etc, to achieve the same level of
'goodness' of signal at each drop.



You may find that it works perfectly. Remember you are not comparing like
with like at the moment. The digital system is operating at much reduced
power until after DSO. Another 9dBuV in the headend may make all the
difference.

Even low quality wall sockets, can have a profound effect on digital
signals, that wasn't apparent on analogue ones. Don't believe all the
hype about how 'perfect' digital terrestrial signals are. They are
actually a lot less forgiving than you might think. It doesn't take an
awful lot to upset them, particularly whilst the power levels of the
transmitters carrying them, are still low ...


Indeed - that is the crux. Once the power level is up many of the problems
should go. There will be differences. Some problems are handled better by
one system or the other as you would expect.

--
Cheers,

John.


I am indeed hoping that the system will cope 'as is' once the transmitter
powers are cranked and the locations of the multiplexes are in their final
grouped places, but I still feel that might be the time to give the system,
which has been in place for some years, a major overhaul. Time, performance,
and test equipment will tell, I guess ...

Arfa




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Martin Pentreath wrote:
If I could come in late and ask a very basic question: I don't
understand much of this thread, but is the conclusion that at some
point in the medium-term but foreseeable future that co-axial
distribution systems will be no good and new cables will need to be
installed? I currently have a LOT of co-ax and cat 5e festooned around
the house. If the co-ax becomes no good for the telly due to
digitisation will the cat 5 be any use?


Probably. There is no reason for a satllite mux NOT to re-create a
digital MUX stream encoded on RF.

There is no reason for it not to be a streaming webs server running on
IP either.
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