I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself, isn't
a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops down two
sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never cut one of
these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep learning curve
for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the
Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed
for the butterfly bolts

Perry

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:51:37 +0000, Perry (News) wrote:

I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the Worthing/Brighton area
that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed for the butterfly bolts

The chances that the corner you want the rear edge of the worktop to
match to being 90 degrees is virtually zero. You might be able to
find a kitchen installers who will cut for you but how you get the
angle right remote from the kitchen would be tricky. Even a tiny
error will be magnified by a couple of metres of worktop.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Perry (News) wrote:
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself, isn't
a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops down two
sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never cut one of
these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep learning curve
for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the
Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed
for the butterfly bolts

Hard to see how that can happen as worktops are essentially bespoke for
their application - the lengths of the 'L's are infinitely variable when
you think about it. Apart from that, you can guarantee that if you were
able to buy one with the slots for the butterfly bolts pre-routed, they
would coincide with the position of struts etc in the units below
preventing access.

If you don't want to diy the obvious solution is just to hire a kitchen
fitter/joiner to fit the worktops (as I've done myself in the past).

David

"Perry (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself, isn't
a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops down two
sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never cut one of
these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep learning curve
for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the
Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed
for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Usually done on site and not cheap.
It's not really a steep learning curve if you've a proper template and a
router.

As a precaution don't cut the worktops to length until the mitre is done.
Then you'll have scope for another go if you b. it up.


mark

"mark" wrote in message
...

"Perry (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself, isn't
a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops down two
sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never cut one of
these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep learning curve
for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the
Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed
for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Usually done on site and not cheap.
It's not really a steep learning curve if you've a proper template and a
router.

As a precaution don't cut the worktops to length until the mitre is done.
Then you'll have scope for another go if you b. it up.

though only on one side of the join

tim

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:24:32 -0000, "mark"
waxed lyrical about:


"Perry (News)" wrote in message
.. .
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself, isn't
a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops down two
sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never cut one of
these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep learning curve
for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the
Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed
for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Usually done on site and not cheap.
It's not really a steep learning curve if you've a proper template and a
router.

As a precaution don't cut the worktops to length until the mitre is done.
Then you'll have scope for another go if you b. it up.


mark


OK it looks like I'll have to attempt it... gulp

I've found this set of instructions
http://www.raygirling.com/wtjig.htm
which seem clear and easy enough to follow

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...item3350838ed3

Although, given the cost of the jig and the bolts I could probably pay
someone to do it with less chance of a cock-up... but, there again,
next time I'll have all the necessary bits...

Yes that looks like a decent jig. Make sure you clamp the jig to the
worktop really tightly with some decent G clamps not those quick clamp
things.

On Nov 4, 3:38*pm, "Perry (News)" wrote:

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...LAMINATE-Workt...


The same seller does a cheaper melamine faced jig if you don't
envisage getting much use from it:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/700mm-Worktop-...ht_2058wt_1154

Router cutters and bolts are cheap at Toolstation.

Presumably you already have a 1/2" router and 30mm guide bush.
Otherwise you can add a fiver for the guide bush and £50 to £200 for
a router.

Like you say, it rapidly gets to the point where it'd be as cheap to
get someone to do it, and they'd have to pay for the replacement
worktops if it went wrong.

On 04/11/09 15:38, Perry (News) wrote:

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...item3350838ed3

Looks like mine, the other thing you want is some STRONG clamps.

Perry (News) wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:24:32 -0000, "mark"
waxed lyrical about:


"Perry (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself,
isn't a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops
down two sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never
cut one of these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep
learning curve for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows
anywhere around the Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop
pre-mitred and routed for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Usually done on site and not cheap.
It's not really a steep learning curve if you've a proper template
and a router.

As a precaution don't cut the worktops to length until the mitre is
done. Then you'll have scope for another go if you b. it up.


mark


OK it looks like I'll have to attempt it... gulp

I've found this set of instructions
http://www.raygirling.com/wtjig.htm
which seem clear and easy enough to follow

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...item3350838ed3

Although, given the cost of the jig and the bolts I could probably pay
someone to do it with less chance of a cock-up... but, there again,
next time I'll have all the necessary bits...

Are joint strips soooo bad? Masons mitre joints are a 'must have' fashion
accessory IMO. A right PITA to cut, and bloody unreliable - I've seen loads
& loads that have come adrift. Once adrift they are buggered, let water in
& look horrible.

Do the maths. Get in a pro for £100-£150 to do the job, spend £300+ to buy
the DIY kit - or spend £8 on an aluminium trim. Run a bead of clear
silicone under the edges and you have a 100% reliable waterproof joint that
takes care of any variable in the corner.

No brainer IMO.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:48:17 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
waxed lyrical about:

snip

OK it looks like I'll have to attempt it... gulp

I've found this set of instructions
http://www.raygirling.com/wtjig.htm
which seem clear and easy enough to follow

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...item3350838ed3

Although, given the cost of the jig and the bolts I could probably pay
someone to do it with less chance of a cock-up... but, there again,
next time I'll have all the necessary bits...

Are joint strips soooo bad? Masons mitre joints are a 'must have' fashion
accessory IMO. A right PITA to cut, and bloody unreliable - I've seen loads
& loads that have come adrift. Once adrift they are buggered, let water in
& look horrible.

Do the maths. Get in a pro for £100-£150 to do the job, spend £300+ to buy
the DIY kit - or spend £8 on an aluminium trim. Run a bead of clear
silicone under the edges and you have a 100% reliable waterproof joint that
takes care of any variable in the corner.

No brainer IMO.

That's all very well but, on one hand SWMBO won't allow the strips
because "they look 'nasty' and trap dirt" and, on the other hand, I
don't like them because they'd be a constant reminder that I couldn't
be arsed to do the job properly. If I really don't think that I can do
something to the standard that I expect, or if I just haven't got the
time, I'll pay someone else to do it, but I prefer to do it myself if
I can - I like learning new skills, I get it done the way *I* want it,
and it's a nice contrast to being in an office all week.

That said, due to my worries about buggering up an £80 worktop with my
first attempt at a mason's mitre, I've gone for a slightly different
approach and, hopefully, managed to sidestep both the mitre and joint
strips.

I've spent a (little) bit more on the worktop and got hold of a 3m
620mm x 40mm solid oak one at a very reasonable price and, as this has
square edges instead of a post-formed curve, I should be able to
butt-join the 90 degree turn. As I understand it, I just need to route
out some butterfly bolt slots, add some biscuits for vertical
alignment and all should be OK. I should also be able to route a nice
radius curve into the 'floating' end of the L shape without faffing
about getting the finish right with stick-on edging.

And, for no reason other than because I want to learn to cut one, I
decided to buy the jig I mentioned earlier so I'll be able to have a
few leisurely practice goes at a mitre joint on the sections of
worktop that I remove. I know that I could have done this anyway
before trying it with the proper worktop but was concerned that it
might turn out to be something that I'll need a fair amount of
practice to master and time constraints mean that I need to get the
current worktop out and the new one fitted in one day.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. ..
Perry (News) wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:24:32 -0000, "mark"
waxed lyrical about:


"Perry (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself,
isn't a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops
down two sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never
cut one of these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep
learning curve for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows
anywhere around the Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop
pre-mitred and routed for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Usually done on site and not cheap.
It's not really a steep learning curve if you've a proper template
and a router.

As a precaution don't cut the worktops to length until the mitre is
done. Then you'll have scope for another go if you b. it up.


mark


OK it looks like I'll have to attempt it... gulp

I've found this set of instructions
http://www.raygirling.com/wtjig.htm
which seem clear and easy enough to follow

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...item3350838ed3

Although, given the cost of the jig and the bolts I could probably pay
someone to do it with less chance of a cock-up... but, there again,
next time I'll have all the necessary bits...

Are joint strips soooo bad? Masons mitre joints are a 'must have' fashion
accessory IMO. A right PITA to cut, and bloody unreliable - I've seen
loads & loads that have come adrift. Once adrift they are buggered, let
water in & look horrible.






I disagree that mason mitres are a must have fashion . They make a kitchen
look finished. Why would they come adrift if done properly? I seal the raw
edges of mine and run in a squidge of similar coloured silcon. If the
underside bolts are tightened and the work top is fixed to the units, it
doesn't stand a lot of chance of coming adrift.

As for coming adrift and looking horrible, the metal strips look horrible
from day one, especially with a thin strip of trapped crud down either edge.
It all comes down to what standards you set yourself I suppose.

mark

mark

mark wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message . ..
Perry (News) wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:24:32 -0000, "mark"
waxed lyrical about:


"Perry (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself,
isn't a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops
down two sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never
cut one of these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep
learning curve for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows
anywhere around the Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a
worktop pre-mitred and routed for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Usually done on site and not cheap.
It's not really a steep learning curve if you've a proper template
and a router.

As a precaution don't cut the worktops to length until the mitre is
done. Then you'll have scope for another go if you b. it up.


mark


OK it looks like I'll have to attempt it... gulp

I've found this set of instructions
http://www.raygirling.com/wtjig.htm
which seem clear and easy enough to follow

And a worktop jig (with a free router bit) on eBay - does this look
OK? - and the same seller does the bolts.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Worktop-Jig-70...item3350838ed3

Although, given the cost of the jig and the bolts I could probably
pay someone to do it with less chance of a cock-up... but, there
again, next time I'll have all the necessary bits...

Are joint strips soooo bad? Masons mitre joints are a 'must have'
fashion accessory IMO. A right PITA to cut, and bloody unreliable -
I've seen loads & loads that have come adrift. Once adrift they are
buggered, let water in & look horrible.






I disagree that mason mitres are a must have fashion . They make a
kitchen look finished. Why would they come adrift if done properly?
I seal the raw edges of mine and run in a squidge of similar coloured
silcon. If the underside bolts are tightened and the work top is
fixed to the units, it doesn't stand a lot of chance of coming adrift.

Dunno how they have been done, but I see loads that have come adrift.

As for coming adrift and looking horrible, the metal strips look
horrible from day one, especially with a thin strip of trapped crud
down either edge. It all comes down to what standards you set
yourself I suppose.

Hence the clear silicone to prevent the crud build up.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. ..

Are joint strips soooo bad? [..]spend £8 on an aluminium trim.
Run a bead of clear silicone under the edges and you have a 100%
reliable waterproof joint that takes care of any variable in the corner.


Only if you live somewhere like Uzbekistan or Peru. You'll probably be
the talk of the village.


michael adams

....

Perry (News) wrote:
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself, isn't
a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops down two
sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never cut one of
these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep learning curve
for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows anywhere around the
Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a worktop pre-mitred and routed
for the butterfly bolts

Perry

Haven't responded so far because a) thought someone else would already
have written that pre-mitred worktops were available; b) it was some
time ago I saw them and I don't know if they still are available.
Somehow, I doubt it.

'Twas in Homebase, probably around four or five years ago, they had a
length of worktop with both ends mitred and routed. You choose where
between those mitres to do a single straight cut.

I thought it quite a good idea but there were inevitable problems such as:

You require a worktop with two mitres or indeed anything other than a
simple 'L'.
The room isn't square.
The very limited range of finishes available in this form.
Excess cost and waste if every piece of worktop has to be bought in this
form in order to match up properly.
The limited maximum length of a single run.

--
Rod

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:46:52 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Haven't responded so far because a) thought someone else would already
have written that pre-mitred worktops were available; b) it was some
time ago I saw them and I don't know if they still are available.
Somehow, I doubt it.

'Twas in Homebase, probably around four or five years ago, they had a
length of worktop with both ends mitred and routed. You choose where
between those mitres to do a single straight cut.

I thought it quite a good idea but there were inevitable problems such as:

You require a worktop with two mitres or indeed anything other than a
simple 'L'.
The room isn't square.
The very limited range of finishes available in this form.
Excess cost and waste if every piece of worktop has to be bought in this
form in order to match up properly.
The limited maximum length of a single run.

Thanks, that would have been ideal - as long as they had a worktop
colour/pattern that met with SWMBO's approval :-)

Unfortunately the bits have been paid for and the new length of
worktop arrives tomorrow - just got to buy some Rustins and remember
to oil the bottom a couple of times *before* it's screwed in place

Perry

Well I've done it!!! and, if I do say so myself, it looks great :-)

First time I've had to use a router for lots of cuts on thick (40mm)
oak and it was hard work - my router was easily up to the job (a Trend
T11), but I wish I'd known how quickly oak seems to blunt the cutter,
I only had one 50mm cutter and could really have done with 2 (or 3)

In the end it took 2 days because I kept making templates and jigs, I
wanted to get nice curves on the pipe cutout and to put a
not-quite-radius curve on the exposed end

It's all dry fitted - not screwed into place yet as waiting for a
delivery of some Rustin's to oil the wood. Once I've applied a couple
of coats to the bottom and back I'll be able to fix it down and then
carry on applying oil to the top.

A quick question, if I may - the worktop doesn't have any cabinets
underneath, but does have a washing machine and tumble dryer
(externally vented), there's about 30mm clearance between the top of
the appliances and the bottom of the worktop and there should be
plenty of air circulation. Given that I'm going to apply a couple of
coats of oil, is it worth fixing a vapour barrier (?plastic sheet?) to
the bottom of the worktop in the area above the appliances?

Perry

Perry (News) wrote:
Well I've done it!!! and, if I do say so myself, it looks great :-)

First time I've had to use a router for lots of cuts on thick (40mm)
oak and it was hard work - my router was easily up to the job (a Trend
T11), but I wish I'd known how quickly oak seems to blunt the cutter,
I only had one 50mm cutter and could really have done with 2 (or 3)


Tip. Rough it with a jigsaw and only side shave the last mm or two.

In the end it took 2 days because I kept making templates and jigs, I
wanted to get nice curves on the pipe cutout and to put a
not-quite-radius curve on the exposed end

It's all dry fitted - not screwed into place yet as waiting for a
delivery of some Rustin's to oil the wood. Once I've applied a couple
of coats to the bottom and back I'll be able to fix it down and then
carry on applying oil to the top.

A quick question, if I may - the worktop doesn't have any cabinets
underneath, but does have a washing machine and tumble dryer
(externally vented), there's about 30mm clearance between the top of
the appliances and the bottom of the worktop and there should be
plenty of air circulation. Given that I'm going to apply a couple of
coats of oil, is it worth fixing a vapour barrier (?plastic sheet?) to
the bottom of the worktop in the area above the appliances?


yes.

Perry

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:03:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Perry (News) wrote:
Well I've done it!!! and, if I do say so myself, it looks great :-)

First time I've had to use a router for lots of cuts on thick (40mm)
oak and it was hard work - my router was easily up to the job (a Trend
T11), but I wish I'd known how quickly oak seems to blunt the cutter,
I only had one 50mm cutter and could really have done with 2 (or 3)


Tip. Rough it with a jigsaw and only side shave the last mm or two.

I'll try that next time, although my battered old jigsaw now struggles
a bit with 12mm ply, so it'd sh*t itself if I asked it to cut 40mm oak
:-)

I'll have to add a new jigsaw to my Christmas list...


In the end it took 2 days because I kept making templates and jigs, I
wanted to get nice curves on the pipe cutout and to put a
not-quite-radius curve on the exposed end

It's all dry fitted - not screwed into place yet as waiting for a
delivery of some Rustin's to oil the wood. Once I've applied a couple
of coats to the bottom and back I'll be able to fix it down and then
carry on applying oil to the top.

A quick question, if I may - the worktop doesn't have any cabinets
underneath, but does have a washing machine and tumble dryer
(externally vented), there's about 30mm clearance between the top of
the appliances and the bottom of the worktop and there should be
plenty of air circulation. Given that I'm going to apply a couple of
coats of oil, is it worth fixing a vapour barrier (?plastic sheet?) to
the bottom of the worktop in the area above the appliances?


yes.

Perry

"Perry (News)" wrote in message
...
I'm replacing the worktops in our utility room which, in itself,
isn't a problem as it's a nice, rectangular shape with worktops
down two sides, but I need a mitred right-angle join - I've never
cut one of these before and understand that it's a bit of a steep
learning curve for a one-off job, so I wondered if anyone knows
anywhere around the Worthing/Brighton area that will sell a
worktop pre-mitred and routed for the butterfly bolts

Perry


I know it's too late for you now, but in case anyone else is
interested about 4 years ago I bought some pre mitred ones from
Homebase (yeah yeah...I know). Each length came with a "male" mitre at
one end and a female one at the other, so you just cut off the end you
don't want. Supplied with the butterfly fixings. 3m lengths I think.

Had to be ordered in and delivered, not kept in store. Dunno if they
still do them.

Perry (News) wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:03:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Perry (News) wrote:
Well I've done it!!! and, if I do say so myself, it looks great :-)

First time I've had to use a router for lots of cuts on thick (40mm)
oak and it was hard work - my router was easily up to the job (a
Trend T11), but I wish I'd known how quickly oak seems to blunt
the cutter, I only had one 50mm cutter and could really have done
with 2 (or 3)


Tip. Rough it with a jigsaw and only side shave the last mm or two.

I'll try that next time, although my battered old jigsaw now struggles
a bit with 12mm ply, so it'd sh*t itself if I asked it to cut 40mm oak
:-)

I'll have to add a new jigsaw to my Christmas list...

Ask Santa for a Makita 4340. "It's a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it".
They eat 40mm oak for breakfast.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk