[nome]

hello

our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

So we got an electrician in that quoted for, a hardwired oven, a wire
running back to our board. Then looking at our board he said it did
not meet current regs and recommended, if we want, a newer board
either with a RCD on the main switch or RCDs on 2 separate sections.
This work also required testing all our electrics. The total cost is a
lot more than buying another socketed oven!

Looking at our board it says the following:

mk sentry consumer unit to BS 5486 PT13 1989
60a with rcd to 63a
rated with current switch disconnection

googling BS 5486 PT13 found this http://www.standardsuk.com/shop/prod...php?prod=32364.

I was wondering if we need to replace? And I believe our box has an
RCD as well?
Should we spend £300 on the cost of upgrade/hardwired oven or just
get another socket oven? Our hob is gas by the way.

Hopeful of any advise

cheers

Nomit

[John]

"nome" wrote in message
...
hello

our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

So we got an electrician in that quoted for, a hardwired oven, a wire
running back to our board. Then looking at our board he said it did
not meet current regs and recommended, if we want, a newer board
either with a RCD on the main switch or RCDs on 2 separate sections.
This work also required testing all our electrics. The total cost is a
lot more than buying another socketed oven!

Looking at our board it says the following:

mk sentry consumer unit to BS 5486 PT13 1989
60a with rcd to 63a
rated with current switch disconnection

googling BS 5486 PT13 found this
http://www.standardsuk.com/shop/prod...php?prod=32364.

I was wondering if we need to replace? And I believe our box has an
RCD as well?
Should we spend £300 on the cost of upgrade/hardwired oven or just
get another socket oven? Our hob is gas by the way.

Hopeful of any advise

cheers

Nomit

Have you noticed a difference in the wattages of the various ovens? Is there
a co-relationship between plug and hardwired wattages?

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
nome writes:
hello
our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

IME, most ovens run from sockets with a max load of about 2.5kW.
You need to go to really big ones before they have to be hardwired.

So we got an electrician in that quoted for, a hardwired oven, a wire
running back to our board. Then looking at our board he said it did
not meet current regs and recommended, if we want, a newer board
either with a RCD on the main switch or RCDs on 2 separate sections.
This work also required testing all our electrics. The total cost is a
lot more than buying another socketed oven!

Your installation does not need to be brought up to current regs,
providing it still conforms to the regs in place at the time it
was last installed/modified, and isn't unsafe.
Lots of electricians try this one on.

Looking at our board it says the following:
mk sentry consumer unit to BS 5486 PT13 1989
60a with rcd to 63a
rated with current switch disconnection

Put a picture of it up on a website somewhere.

googling BS 5486 PT13 found this http://www.standardsuk.com/shop/prod...php?prod=32364.
I was wondering if we need to replace? And I believe our box has an
RCD as well?
Should we spend £300 on the cost of upgrade/hardwired oven or just
get another socket oven? Our hob is gas by the way.

The new circuit needs to conform to current regs, and therefore
is going to need to be on a 30mA RCD unless none of the wiring
is buried in the walls. If you have a spare way which is on an
RCD (can't tell from what you've said if that's the case), then
electrician can use that (subject to checking loadings, etc).
Earthing for the installation should be brought up to current
regs too.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[David WE Roberts]

"nome" wrote in message
...
hello

our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

snip

Have a look in B&Q - they always seem to have a load of single electric fan
ovens on offer.
The one we got a year or so ago could be connected to a standard 13 amp
socket.

On the (volts * amps = watts) front a 13 amp socket should support at least
3 Kw and as Andrew has said most don't consume more than 2.5Kw.

I was expecting the electric cooker to require a dedicated circuit (we
already had one in place) but all it required was a 13 amp socket.

I think that kickass double ovens may well require more go juice but you
should be able to find a single oven to meet your requirements.
Decline the services of the electrician :-)

[NT[_2_]]

On Oct 19, 2:26*pm, nome wrote:

hello

our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

So we got an electrician in that quoted for, a hardwired oven, a wire
running back to our board. Then looking at our board he said it did
not meet current regs and recommended, if we want, a newer board
either with a RCD on the main switch or RCDs on 2 separate sections.
This work also required testing all our electrics. The total cost is a
lot more than buying another socketed oven!

Looking at our board it says the following:

mk sentry consumer unit to BS 5486 PT13 1989
60a with rcd to 63a
rated with current switch disconnection

googling BS 5486 PT13 found thishttp://www.standardsuk.com/shop/products_view.php?prod=32364.

I was wondering if we need to replace? And I believe our box has an
RCD as well?
Should we spend £300 on the cost of upgrade/hardwired oven *or just
get another socket oven? Our hob is gas by the way.

Hopeful of any advise

cheers

Nomit


You've not supplied a pic of the setup, but if its post 1989 as you
say then its not likely to need any work.

All ovens that eat less than 3kW max, ie nearly all single ovens, can
go on a plug, regardless of what their fitting instructions say. Ovens
of the type that include a built in hob usually draw too much power to
run off a 13A plug.


NT

[The Medway Handyman]

NT wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:26 pm, nome wrote:

hello

our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like
for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most
products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

So we got an electrician in that quoted for, a hardwired oven, a wire
running back to our board. Then looking at our board he said it did
not meet current regs and recommended, if we want, a newer board
either with a RCD on the main switch or RCDs on 2 separate sections.
This work also required testing all our electrics. The total cost is
a
lot more than buying another socketed oven!

Looking at our board it says the following:

mk sentry consumer unit to BS 5486 PT13 1989
60a with rcd to 63a
rated with current switch disconnection

googling BS 5486 PT13 found
thishttp://www.standardsuk.com/shop/products_view.php?prod=32364.

I was wondering if we need to replace? And I believe our box has an
RCD as well?
Should we spend £300 on the cost of upgrade/hardwired oven or just
get another socket oven? Our hob is gas by the way.

Hopeful of any advise

cheers

Nomit


You've not supplied a pic of the setup, but if its post 1989 as you
say then its not likely to need any work.

All ovens that eat less than 3kW max, ie nearly all single ovens, can
go on a plug, regardless of what their fitting instructions say. Ovens
of the type that include a built in hob usually draw too much power to
run off a 13A plug.

I was also wondering if the OP meant 'oven' or 'cooker'. Usual case is oven
plugged in, electric hob wired in.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[John Whitworth[_2_]]

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
NT wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:26 pm, nome wrote:

hello

our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like
for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit.

I was also wondering if the OP meant 'oven' or 'cooker'. Usual case is
oven plugged in, electric hob wired in.

He said it was a single, electric fan oven.

Anyway, like most replies here, we have a single electric fan oven, which is
plugged into a non-switched 13A socket at the back of the unit. That's then
connected to a cooker switch and 13A socket above the work surface. That
cooker switch/socket is then connected into a seperate 32A MCB at the CU.
But the main thing is that the cooker itself came with a 13A plug connected
to it when we bought it.

[John Whitworth[_2_]]

"John Whitworth" wrote in message
...

But the main thing is that the cooker itself came with a 13A plug
connected to it when we bought it.

Oops - oven not cooker...oven not cooker!!! ;-)

[S Viemeister[_2_]]

The Medway Handyman wrote:


I was also wondering if the OP meant 'oven' or 'cooker'. Usual case is oven
plugged in, electric hob wired in.


What is usual with dual-fuel cookers? Is the oven part wired-in or
plugged in?

[ARWadsworth]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article
,
nome writes:
hello
our old cooker has packed up and were looking to replace with like for
like, A single electric fan oven that slides into a unit. The old
cooker was just plugged into a socket and looking around most products
seem to be hardwired in and require an electrician. Confusingly I
can't find anything that explains why some are socket based and most
are hardwired.

IME, most ovens run from sockets with a max load of about 2.5kW.
You need to go to really big ones before they have to be hardwired.

So we got an electrician in that quoted for, a hardwired oven, a wire
running back to our board. Then looking at our board he said it did
not meet current regs and recommended, if we want, a newer board
either with a RCD on the main switch or RCDs on 2 separate sections.
This work also required testing all our electrics. The total cost is a
lot more than buying another socketed oven!

Your installation does not need to be brought up to current regs,
providing it still conforms to the regs in place at the time it
was last installed/modified, and isn't unsafe.
Lots of electricians try this one on.

I often get around this by installing a new CU next to the existing one if
the existing one is not suitable.

A small inexpensive 2 way RCD main switch CU unit can save a customer quite
a bit of money.

Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Adam

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
S Viemeister writes:
The Medway Handyman wrote:


I was also wondering if the OP meant 'oven' or 'cooker'. Usual case is oven
plugged in, electric hob wired in.


What is usual with dual-fuel cookers? Is the oven part wired-in or
plugged in?

Usually plugged in IME.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[nome]

hello
wonderful advice - cheers
pix at http://picasaweb.google.com/h.babraa
I did twig that just under 3KW was going to be the limit on a socket
but found some products that still require hardwiring even though less
than 3kw so that confused me
Cheers again!

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
nome writes:
hello
wonderful advice - cheers
pix at http://picasaweb.google.com/h.babraa

Ah, that's one of the older (and nicer than current range) MK CU's
with the perspex lid. It's even got the 100A switch (often the
small ones are only fitted with the 63A switch).

There's a spare way at the end, and these will take MK's current
RCBO's if you need RCD protection, so it should be quite easy.

I did twig that just under 3KW was going to be the limit on a socket
but found some products that still require hardwiring even though less
than 3kw so that confused me
Cheers again!

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[js.b1]

Some may require "hard wiring" by virtue of the thermal limitations of
a BS1363(/A) plug.

- It is not good practice to wire a 3kW immersion off a 13A plug,
since it can draw 3kW for prolonged periods (hours).
- It is reasonable to wire a 3kW oven off a 13A plug, because it will
only draw 3kW for short periods unless the door is left open.

I'm not convinced the heating effect is down to pin contact area, I
think a significant amount is the thermal dissipation of fuse holder-
tabs & fuse (combined 8W or so) which heats both flex & fixed wiring.
Hence using a fused-spur for "hard wiring" does not gain you much
either. I found my JL tumble dryer plug was blazing, changed it to an
MK 1363/A and it now runs almost cool.


Alternatively the requirement for "hard wiring" when 3kW may as much
be to prevent it being plugged into a 2G socket (shared with say a
tumble-dryer) or into a multi-way adapter (which should be fused but
might not be if very old).

You can get larger MK Sentry-1 boards (12-way) incidentally - they are
on Ebay currently about £24. Note that Sentry-1 & Sentry-2 are
incompatible, Sentry-1 seemed tougher than the flimsy later offerings.
Getting spare Sentry-1 parts is difficult. To identify Sentry-1 the
CPD cover is translucent smoked grey, Sentry-2 is a solid cream colour.

[nome]

Hello

There's a spare way at the end, and these will take MK's current
RCBO's if you need RCD protection, so it should be quite easy.

Looking at the unit it mentions "60a with RCD to 63a"
I'm presuming the unit already has an RCD albeit one that is for the
whole installation? Is this correct?

So IF I just buy another socket based oven Do I need (additional) RCD/
MCB/RCBO protection?

Cheers

Nomit

[S Viemeister[_2_]]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
S Viemeister writes:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I was also wondering if the OP meant 'oven' or 'cooker'. Usual case is oven
plugged in, electric hob wired in.


What is usual with dual-fuel cookers? Is the oven part wired-in or
plugged in?

Usually plugged in IME.

That's good - I'm awaiting the delivery of a dual-fuel cooker, and have
been arranging for installation of LPG cylinders (no mains gas where I
am) - nice if I can just plug the thing in!

[Mike Clarke]

nome wrote:

I did twig that just under 3KW was going to be the limit on a socket
but found some products that still require hardwiring even though less
than 3kw so that confused me

Some suppliers seem to be far too cautious (or careless) when it comes to
supplying this type of information. For example Ikea GAS hobs are described
as "Wired-in installation. Installation to be made by a qualified
electrician." (e.g. http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/70123470) -
just for the fraction of an amp needed for the piezo spark generator, well
within the capacity of a plug and socket. It's probably just standard
boilerplate labelling which they apply to all hobs and ovens without
thinking.

--
Mike Clarke

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article ,
nome writes:
Hello

There's a spare way at the end, and these will take MK's current
RCBO's if you need RCD protection, so it should be quite easy.

Looking at the unit it mentions "60a with RCD to 63a"
I'm presuming the unit already has an RCD albeit one that is for the
whole installation? Is this correct?

No. It looks like the CU was originally sold with an RCD,
but there isn't one in there anymore.

So IF I just buy another socket based oven Do I need (additional) RCD/
MCB/RCBO protection?

Not if you can simply plug it in.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[nome]

Cheers

Odd that it would have had the RCD taken out...

Anyway thanks for all that - I think I'll leave everything as it is
and just buy a socket oven!
cheers again for all your advice