I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool
suppliers long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind the
thread off the auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1] keeping a
fairly heavy pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A bit brutish, but
this trick has often got me out of a bit of bother, and I now keep a few of
the common sizes (that have been adapted that way) in the toolbox).

[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square on the
end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Cash

GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Flat bit and extension bar will do what you want - just drill as far as
the wood with a masonry bit, and carry on with the flat bit.

Failing that, the brute force and ignorance solution would just romp
through with the SDS. It may not drill the wood as such, but it won't
stop it!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

One way or another, find an engineers supply store and ask for a long
series twist drill, of the dimeter you need. You didn't mention what
diam. hole you want to drill. The smaller the hole, the shorter the
twist drill. A 3/8ths. inch long series drill will be about 12 inches long.

I am not all that clear as to where the start and end of the hole will be.

1. Start of the hole will be a couple of inches away from the woodwork
of a door frame. The end of the hole will be at the edge of the woodwork
of the (same?) door frame.

2. Start of the hole will be a couple of inches away from the woodwork
of a door frame. The end of the hole will come through the woodwork of
the (same?) door frame.

Either way, you will have to start drilling from the end of the hole
described above and come through the plaster about 2 inches away from
the door, to the start of the hole, as described above. I hope you
understand that.

To find out what sort of angle to drill the hole to in respect of the
end to start point. Lay the twist drill on some stiff card that marks
both door edges and the couple of inches away from the door and measure
the angle and if you have one, set a protracter to that angle and use it
as a guide when looking down on it.

HTH

Dave

Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of
this hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most
of it will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this
kind of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool
suppliers long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind the
thread off the auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1]
keeping a fairly heavy pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A bit
brutish, but this trick has often got me out of a bit of bother, and
I now keep a few of the common sizes (that have been adapted that
way) in the toolbox).

Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just stick it in
a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight through. Plaster
might dull it a bit, but who cares?

[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square on
the end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Tapered square? WTF is that?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:52:09 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of
this hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most
of it will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this
kind of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool
suppliers long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind the
thread off the auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1]
keeping a fairly heavy pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A bit
brutish, but this trick has often got me out of a bit of bother, and
I now keep a few of the common sizes (that have been adapted that
way) in the toolbox).

Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just stick it in
a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight through. Plaster
might dull it a bit, but who cares?

[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square on
the end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Tapered square? WTF is that?

All my auger bits have a square tapered section for gripping in the two
jaws of a brace.

SteveW

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:52:09 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
had this to say:


Tapered square? WTF is that?

It was used for many many years to hold a bit in a carpenter's brace.
It gave a positive grip, but is rarely seen nowadays - most 'bits'
seem to be SDS.
(Somewhere) I still have a 'tank cutter' with a tapered square shank,
intended to cut (pretty obviously) a hole in a metal tank, infinitely
variable from about 3/4" to 5" diameter. It has a 1/4" pilot drill
(which is probably best replaced with a plain 1/4" steel spindle
inserted into a hole made with a 'proper' drill!), and an adjustable
radial cutter.
My carpenter's brace is long defunct - ISTR that it cost 4/6d from
Woolworths about 50+ years ago - actually it was very good!
The posh 'ratchet' ones cost about 7/6d...

--
Frank Erskine

"GMM" wrote in message
...
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

I have used
http://www.rolsontools.com/search.asp?page=1&id=1121&tt=1&ct=1&searchCat=0&se archStock=48557

without a problem.

Adam

"GMM" wrote in message
...
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
.....
Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length?

They do.

http://www.drill-service.co.uk/Produ...80000&Tool=328

If those are not long enough for you, the same company will make you just
about any drill you want.

Colin Bignell

What about one of these

http://www.gb-online.co.uk/ebay/longseriesdrill.jpg

I have a range of these, 12mm dia and about 20 inches long.

Costs about £75 each.

Cut the morse taper off, and stick it in a drill.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:00:41 -0700, GMM wrote:
Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length?

I just walked into my local DIY shed a few months ago and picked up a
foot-long 3/8" drill bit off the shelf - wasn't expensive, either.

Or, as network cable's flexible, you could probably drill from both sides
of your frame with a shorter bit - you'll be able to get everything
*almost* straight with some careful measuring and the cable will have
enough give in it if it's not exactly spot-on.

cheers

Jules

For the Medway Handyman!!

Steve Walker wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:52:09 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out
on the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth
of this hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and
most of it will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the
angle I need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really
should be in a brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't
turn a brace in that position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this
kind of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool
suppliers long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind
the thread off the auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1]
keeping a fairly heavy pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A
bit brutish, but this trick has often got me out of a bit of
bother, and I now keep a few of the common sizes (that have been
adapted that way) in the toolbox).

Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just
stick it in a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight
through. Plaster might dull it a bit, but who cares?

The problem is that the thread will tend to 'pull' the auger in the
direction that you don't want it to go - taking the thread off resolves
this - sometimes "brute force and ignorance" (which seems on occasion to be
your trade mark [angle grinder man]) just doesn't equate to a reasonable
job!

[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square on
the end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Tapered square? WTF is that?

Now this really shows your lack of knowledge - go and have a look at an
auger bit that fits into a brace (if you actually now what that is) and you
will find that it is square and tapered in its length - which is totally
unsuitable for fitting in any drill that only holds round stock.

Now I could have been really technical and pointed him to B&Q to get an
auger that has a pointy bit on one end and 6 straight sides on the other -
but There We Are Then, we can't all be perfect can we?

Now I now why I was fed up with reading the Life and Times of the "Grizzly
Handyman" and consigned him to the darkest cave on the computer. ;-)

Cash

Cash wrote:
For the Medway Handyman!!

Steve Walker wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:52:09 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Cash wrote:
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple
of inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come
out on the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total
depth of this hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches
anyway) and most of it will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the
angle I need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really
should be in a brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't
turn a brace in that position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this
kind of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do
this? Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool
suppliers long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind
the thread off the auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1]
keeping a fairly heavy pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A
bit brutish, but this trick has often got me out of a bit of
bother, and I now keep a few of the common sizes (that have been
adapted that way) in the toolbox).

Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just
stick it in a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight
through. Plaster might dull it a bit, but who cares?

The problem is that the thread will tend to 'pull' the auger in the
direction that you don't want it to go - taking the thread off
resolves this - sometimes "brute force and ignorance" (which seems on
occasion to be your trade mark [angle grinder man]) just doesn't
equate to a reasonable job!

Bollox. If you can't control the pull from an auger bit & get it to go
where you want, you need more Shredded Wheat. Wimp.


[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square
on the end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Tapered square? WTF is that?

Now this really shows your lack of knowledge - go and have a look at
an auger bit that fits into a brace (if you actually now what that
is) and you will find that it is square and tapered in its length -
which is totally unsuitable for fitting in any drill that only holds
round stock.

Oh that tapered shank? Like Noah used to build the Ark? Its the 21st
century FFS, not the middle ages. Catch up.

Now I could have been really technical and pointed him to B&Q to get
an auger that has a pointy bit on one end and 6 straight sides on the
other - but There We Are Then, we can't all be perfect can we?

Clearly not when you suggest grinding off tapers on bits last used by Barry
Bucknell. Where would you find them anyway you ****? An antique shop?

Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore. We have power
tools now. Bits are available to fit them, no need to grind them down.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Cash explained :
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool suppliers
long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind the thread off the
auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1] keeping a fairly heavy
pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A bit brutish, but this trick has
often got me out of a bit of bother, and I now keep a few of the common sizes
(that have been adapted that way) in the toolbox).

[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square on the end
- or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Cash

Not actually tried it, but could an ordinary blunt ended SDS masonry be
used, but with the blunt spear end ground so it would cut into wood?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Cash explained :
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out
on the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth
of this hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and
most of it will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle
I need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in
a brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in
that position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this
kind of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

Cheers

GMM,

You can get 'long series' suitable twist drills from reputable tool
suppliers long enough to do what you want, or you could just grind
the thread off the auger bit and stick it in an electric drill [1]
keeping a fairly heavy pressure on it as you drill the hole. (A
bit brutish, but this trick has often got me out of a bit of bother,
and I now keep a few of the common sizes (that have been adapted
that way) in the toolbox). [1] Just make sure that you get one without
the tapered square on
the end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.

Cash

Not actually tried it, but could an ordinary blunt ended SDS masonry
be used, but with the blunt spear end ground so it would cut into
wood?

Harry,

I've never tried that but I would suspect that it would tear rather than cut
due to the shape of the end. I might grind an old masonry bit over the next
few days and give it a go to see what happens.

As a matter of interest, the Tungsten tip on a new masonry is relatively
'sharp' and may just work given a bit of pushing and a good electric drill.

Cash

After serious thinking Cash wrote :
I've never tried that but I would suspect that it would tear rather than cut
due to the shape of the end. I might grind an old masonry bit over the next
few days and give it a go to see what happens.

To grind it you will need a green grit wheel, but I suppose you already
knew that.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

For the Medway Handy Man!!

Owain wrote:
On 13 July, 22:57, "The Medway Handyman"
Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore.

Oh yes they *DO* . They come in very handy when there is no power on site
and the batteries have run down on the portable drill - or even when you
have to drill a 75mm hole in a piece of wood.

Now please don't tell me that this cannot be done by hand - because it can
with an expansion wood bit.

And if you've never heard of, or seen one of these, then I would suggest
that you stick to the 'rough' stuff - or use the angle grinder.


Cash

Cash wrote:
For the Medway Handy Man!!

Owain wrote:
On 13 July, 22:57, "The Medway Handyman"
Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore.

Oh yes they *DO* . They come in very handy when there is no power on
site and the batteries have run down on the portable drill - or even
when you have to drill a 75mm hole in a piece of wood.

Don't make me laugh you idiot. You can buy spare batteries for cordless
drills - if you have half a brain. I can just see the chippies on site "oh
my one & only battery has died, where did I put the brace & bit"?

The last one I saw was on the Antiques Roadshow.

Now please don't tell me that this cannot be done by hand - because
it can with an expansion wood bit.

If you can do it by hand then it can be done with a decent cordless.
Faster, with less effort.

You must like making work for yourself, grinding down 40 year old auger
shafts when you can buy hexagon shafts anywhere, using a brace & bit because
you don't have the sense to buy an extra battery.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:57:10 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
had this to say:


Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore..

Nobody?

How would you know, if you've never come across tapered square shanks?

We have power tools now.

Little wonder then, that there's allegedly a 'carbon' problem in this
world. And obesity :-)

--
Frank Erskine

Owain wrote:
On 13 July, 22:57, "The Medway Handyman"
Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore.

One of the advantages of brace & bit is that my parents couldn't hear
me drilling holes through the bedroom floor. :-)

Dare we ask why you wanted holes in your bedroom floor?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Cash wrote:

Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just
stick it in a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight
through. Plaster might dull it a bit, but who cares?

The problem is that the thread will tend to 'pull' the auger in the
direction that you don't want it to go - taking the thread off resolves

Just pre drill a small hole in the timber to allow clearance around most
of the worm thread - that will reduce (or eliminate if you prefer) the
pull from the thread without trashing a perfectly good auger.

this - sometimes "brute force and ignorance" (which seems on occasion to be
your trade mark [angle grinder man]) just doesn't equate to a reasonable
job!

[1] Just make sure that you get one without the tapered square on
the end - or if that is not possible, just cut the taper off.
Tapered square? WTF is that?

Now this really shows your lack of knowledge - go and have a look at an

More milk tibbles?

auger bit that fits into a brace (if you actually now what that is) and you
will find that it is square and tapered in its length - which is totally
unsuitable for fitting in any drill that only holds round stock.

An angle grinder would soon fix that.... ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

TMH:
Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just
stick it in a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight
through. Plaster might dull it a bit, but who cares?

Cash:
The problem is that the thread will tend to 'pull' the auger in the
direction that you don't want it to go - taking the thread off resolves

I think that's slightly missing the, er, point.

The screw point on the traditional auger is a primitive form of
auto-feed, intended to pull the bit through the wood without the user
having to lean hard on the brace-and-bit (much though that tones up the
stomach muscles).

The main problem is that it never worked all that well, because the
optimum feed rates for hard wood or soft, close grained or open, are all
different. Sometimes it's necessary to haul back on the brace to prevent
it smashing through the wood.

And that's the second problem: put the same tool in "a suitably powerful
mains drill" and it *will* smash straight through the wood - always at
its own chosen feed rate.

Just pre drill a small hole in the timber to allow clearance around
most of the worm thread - that will reduce (or eliminate if you prefer)
the pull from the thread without trashing a perfectly good auger.


"Trashing" is far too strong a word. If the threaded point is regularly
forcing you to do two drilling operations instead of one, then grinding
the thread off is a perfectly reasonable modification.



--
Ian White

In article
,
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

You can certainly get 300mm long non HSS twist drills - I have a set
(5,8,10mm) bought off a market stall. I'd guess HSS might break too easily
at this sort of length. Another perhaps more useful thing from the same
source was 300mm extensions for flat wood bits - they have a collar which
uses allen head grub screws to lock the bit in place and can be daisy
chained together.
Can't remember the brand - probably BlackForge or some other impressive
sounding name but I'd bet Draper do something similar. Check their
website.
Cheers

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Cash wrote:
For the Medway Handy Man!!

Owain wrote:
On 13 July, 22:57, "The Medway Handyman"
Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore.
Oh yes they *DO* . They come in very handy when there is no power on
site and the batteries have run down on the portable drill - or even
when you have to drill a 75mm hole in a piece of wood.

Don't make me laugh you idiot. You can buy spare batteries for cordless
drills - if you have half a brain. I can just see the chippies on site "oh
my one & only battery has died, where did I put the brace & bit"?

The last one I saw was on the Antiques Roadshow.

Now please don't tell me that this cannot be done by hand - because
it can with an expansion wood bit.

If you can do it by hand then it can be done with a decent cordless.
Faster, with less effort.

You must like making work for yourself, grinding down 40 year old auger
shafts when you can buy hexagon shafts anywhere, using a brace & bit because
you don't have the sense to buy an extra battery.



I can think of one instance where a brace and screwdriver bit is the
*only* tool to use, and that is for shifting old, corroded screws,
especially the 6" x 14 type. There is a knack to setting the handle at 3
o' clock and whipping it up to 2 o'c. For some reason the impact shifts
things that would never move with just pressure

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I can think of one instance where a brace and screwdriver bit is the
*only* tool to use, and that is for shifting old, corroded screws,
especially the 6" x 14 type. There is a knack to setting the handle at 3
o' clock and whipping it up to 2 o'c. For some reason the impact shifts
things that would never move with just pressure

Impact driver is even better. Even the little Makita is brilliant for
removing slot head screws you just know are going to be a problem.

--
*Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ian White wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

TMH:
Why would you want to remove the thread off an auger bit? Just
stick it in a suitably powerful mains drill and it will go straight
through. Plaster might dull it a bit, but who cares?

Cash:
The problem is that the thread will tend to 'pull' the auger in the
direction that you don't want it to go - taking the thread off resolves

I think that's slightly missing the, er, point.

The screw point on the traditional auger is a primitive form of
auto-feed, intended to pull the bit through the wood without the user
having to lean hard on the brace-and-bit (much though that tones up the
stomach muscles).

The main problem is that it never worked all that well, because the
optimum feed rates for hard wood or soft, close grained or open, are all
different. Sometimes it's necessary to haul back on the brace to prevent
it smashing through the wood.

To be fair it works well in some cases, and poorly in others. It much
depends on the wood type and direction of cut. Drilling into end grain
on soft wood (say a 50mm hole in a newel post), you want all the pull
you can get.

And that's the second problem: put the same tool in "a suitably powerful
mains drill" and it *will* smash straight through the wood - always at
its own chosen feed rate.

That is the problem the hole solves for you. If you pre drill a small
hole (say 5mm) it will greatly reduce the pull from the worm. 8mm will
probably eliminate it altogether, 3mm will leave you a fair bit etc.

At least that way you have the choice of retaining the pull for when you
do want it.

Just pre drill a small hole in the timber to allow clearance around
most of the worm thread - that will reduce (or eliminate if you
prefer) the pull from the thread without trashing a perfectly good auger.


"Trashing" is far too strong a word. If the threaded point is regularly
forcing you to do two drilling operations instead of one, then grinding
the thread off is a perfectly reasonable modification.

No need to force it using the technique described. If you were drilling
100's of holes in the same timber and situation etc, then it might be
worth modding the bit - but its not a general solution since the problem
is a moving target.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore. We have power
tools now. Bits are available to fit them, no need to grind them down.


Those of use who genuinely are DIY, and have a big stack of hand tools
that Granddad left, still use a brace and bit. I have a full
(imperial!) set of bits in any size you could want. I wouldn't want to
be drilling all day with them, but for the odd hole or two they're fine.

And I use the brace with an SDS bit to put cable holes on soft block
walls. Not worth getting the power drill out for just one.

And batteries? Tell me the company that sells drills that use
off-the-shelf batteries, not custom packs, and I'll get one.

Andy

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
GMM wrote:
I need to send a (network, not power!) cable through a door frame.
The plan is to go through the plaster beside the frame (a couple of
inches before an adjoining door), at a bit of an angle to come out on
the edge of the architrave on the other side. The total depth of this
hole will be 200 - 250mm (well, 8 - 10 inches anyway) and most of it
will be through timber.
Soooooo....I was trying to find a drill long enough to get through
that lot. Plenty of masonry jobbies to be had, SDS or not, but
they're not very good on timber. The only things I can find are
extended flat bits (which might be tricky to get going at the angle I
need) and augur bits, which might be fine but really should be in a
brace and a) I haven't got one and b) I couldn't turn a brace in that
position.

Why doesn't anyone sell a standard HSS/spur/multipurpose bit this kind
of length? More importantly, what's the right way to do this?

You can certainly get 300mm long non HSS twist drills - I have a set
(5,8,10mm) bought off a market stall. I'd guess HSS might break too easily
at this sort of length.

To help prevent this happening, just pull the drill back out of the hole
to let the saw dust out. It is the saw dust that grips the twist drill
that lets the torque to go up to the twist drill's breaking point. Just
drill for a maximum of 2 inches at a time and then pull out.

Dave

In article ,
Andy Champ wrote:
And batteries? Tell me the company that sells drills that use
off-the-shelf batteries, not custom packs, and I'll get one.

The cells inside are usually interchangeable. But sadly cost far more in
proportion to a complete new tool.

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
You can certainly get 300mm long non HSS twist drills - I have a set
(5,8,10mm) bought off a market stall. I'd guess HSS might break too
easily at this sort of length.

To help prevent this happening, just pull the drill back out of the hole
to let the saw dust out. It is the saw dust that grips the twist drill
that lets the torque to go up to the twist drill's breaking point. Just
drill for a maximum of 2 inches at a time and then pull out.

I was thinking more of bending type breaking than twisting with a very
long smallish HSS.

--
*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andy Champ wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Things have moved on. Nobody uses a brace & bit anymore. We have
power tools now. Bits are available to fit them, no need to grind
them down.

Those of use who genuinely are DIY, and have a big stack of hand tools
that Granddad left, still use a brace and bit. I have a full
(imperial!) set of bits in any size you could want. I wouldn't want
to be drilling all day with them, but for the odd hole or two they're
fine.
And I use the brace with an SDS bit to put cable holes on soft block
walls. Not worth getting the power drill out for just one.

And batteries? Tell me the company that sells drills that use
off-the-shelf batteries, not custom packs, and I'll get one.

Not the point really. If you buy a cordless tool part of the decision
involves the batteries, as I learned the hard way. But even cheap cordless
tools come with two batteries, so there is no reason not to have one in use
& one on charge.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave wrote:
You can certainly get 300mm long non HSS twist drills - I have a set
(5,8,10mm) bought off a market stall. I'd guess HSS might break too
easily at this sort of length.

To help prevent this happening, just pull the drill back out of the hole
to let the saw dust out. It is the saw dust that grips the twist drill
that lets the torque to go up to the twist drill's breaking point. Just
drill for a maximum of 2 inches at a time and then pull out.

I was thinking more of bending type breaking than twisting with a very
long smallish HSS.

I see what you mean. This is a common problem with a pistol type drill
handle. The way to get round this, if you are right handed. (If you are
left handed, just change hands and follow this with your left hand doing
the pushing.)...

In your normal way, start the hole off. Now stop drilling and change
hands. Hold the pistol grip in your left hand with only your first
finger and thumb, using your finger to press the start switch, while you
press at the back of the body of the drill with only the palm of your
hand, directly behind and in line with the chuck to start cutting the
hole. Do not use your fingers at all while pushing. This puts all the
pressure along the line of the twist drill.

It is the act of holding the pistol grip with your full hand grip that
puts a bend in the twist drill, as the pressure is put on the drill
below the axis of the twist drill.

I'm sure that you knew this Dave, but it is surprising how many drills
are snapped by holding and pressing with the handle of the drill.

Dave

In article ,
Dave wrote:
I was thinking more of bending type breaking than twisting with a very
long smallish HSS.

I see what you mean. This is a common problem with a pistol type drill
handle. The way to get round this, if you are right handed. (If you are
left handed, just change hands and follow this with your left hand doing
the pushing.)...

[Snip]

I hardly ever use HSS drills in a hand drill - I have a drill press which
would be used for steel, etc.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave wrote:
I was thinking more of bending type breaking than twisting with a very
long smallish HSS.

I see what you mean. This is a common problem with a pistol type drill
handle. The way to get round this, if you are right handed. (If you are
left handed, just change hands and follow this with your left hand doing
the pushing.)...

[Snip]

I hardly ever use HSS drills in a hand drill - I have a drill press which
would be used for steel, etc.

Wouldn't that be difficult to use to drill horizontally through wood? :-)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Sorry

Dave

In article ,
Dave wrote:
I was thinking more of bending type breaking than twisting with a very
long smallish HSS.

I see what you mean. This is a common problem with a pistol type
drill handle. The way to get round this, if you are right handed.
(If you are left handed, just change hands and follow this with your
left hand doing the pushing.)...

[Snip]

I hardly ever use HSS drills in a hand drill - I have a drill press
which would be used for steel, etc.

Wouldn't that be difficult to use to drill horizontally through wood?
:-)

You just turn the wood round. ;-)

I don't have a problem breaking twist drills in a hand drill.

Except tungsten ones for PCB use. So I have a special drill press for
those. ;-)

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.