Hi
Wondering if anyone can help with a multitude of questions I have on a
paving project. I am going to pave over an old area using a combination of
the existing base and some new base. The area will only be a patio and not
subject to heavy traffic like a driveway.

Here goes:

This is the area to be done. Most of it already has a concrete base which I
will be leaving alone. There are 2 other areas which I will have to fill in.
http://img181.imageshack.us/i/img0374.jpg/

The 2 areas to be filled in are the ones with mud in the above picture.

I have cleared away an old paved area as it was unlevel
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0379ijn.jpg/
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0390n.jpg/

First question:
For the 2 areas with mud, obviously I will bring them level with type 1
hardcore, then sand over both areas at once. Question is how deep should I
go? 10CM seems to be recommended for driveways but will less be ok here? May
main problem is getting rid of the mud I dig up, I've already spent time and
money on getting rid of lots of other crap from the garden elsewhere.

This is what it looks like from an edge:
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0391n.jpg/


Another issue is that the paving will increase the height of the floor. I
will only be paving up to my gate:
http://img150.imageshack.us/i/img0387u.jpg/

Obviously this will create a small step when you open the gate and go past
it. What are the best ways around this? Maybe a sloped edge so there is no
step? I would prefer to avoid a step as I can see people stumbling over it
not remembering its there!
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0380g.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img0381a.jpg/




http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img0377u.jpg/

The fence will be one of the edges. it was put in by the neighbor and it
seems I will have to bash away some of the concrete on my side to make it
look nicer. What is the best way to do this? A chisel and hammer and just
chip away at it until its back at ground level?

Finally - edging. I know with driveways you need an edge - but will I need
one with a patio? my main issue is where I will put the edging. Obviously I
can use the edge of the house and the shed but what about where the
neighbors fence is and my gate is?

http://img8.imageshack.us/i/img0384lvr.jpg/

If you look at this picture you can see where the patio will stop - where
there is a slight drop in the mud. The bit after will be turf - how do i
edge it? I was going to buy some of the 'log wood' edging from B and Q to
separate the patio and turf'

how would you edge the neighbors' fence?

i was hoping to not have a separate ending - just pave close as possible to
all the edges and then fill with cement/sand.

i am unsure if i will be using slabs or the smaller driveway blocks yet.

thanks for any help!

mo wrote:
Hi
Wondering if anyone can help with a multitude of questions I have on a
paving project.

SNIP

http://pavingexpert.com/

mo wrote:
Hi
Wondering if anyone can help with a multitude of questions I have on a
paving project. I am going to pave over an old area using a combination
of the existing base and some new base. The area will only be a patio
and not subject to heavy traffic like a driveway.

Here goes:

This is the area to be done. Most of it already has a concrete base
which I will be leaving alone. There are 2 other areas which I will have
to fill in.
http://img181.imageshack.us/i/img0374.jpg/

The 2 areas to be filled in are the ones with mud in the above picture.

I have cleared away an old paved area as it was unlevel
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0379ijn.jpg/
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0390n.jpg/

First question:
For the 2 areas with mud, obviously I will bring them level with type 1
hardcore, then sand over both areas at once. Question is how deep should
I go? 10CM seems to be recommended for driveways but will less be ok
here? May main problem is getting rid of the mud I dig up, I've already
spent time and money on getting rid of lots of other crap from the
garden elsewhere.

This is what it looks like from an edge:
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0391n.jpg/


Another issue is that the paving will increase the height of the floor.
I will only be paving up to my gate:
http://img150.imageshack.us/i/img0387u.jpg/

Obviously this will create a small step when you open the gate and go
past it. What are the best ways around this? Maybe a sloped edge so
there is no step? I would prefer to avoid a step as I can see people
stumbling over it not remembering its there!
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0380g.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img0381a.jpg/




http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img0377u.jpg/

The fence will be one of the edges. it was put in by the neighbor and it
seems I will have to bash away some of the concrete on my side to make
it look nicer. What is the best way to do this? A chisel and hammer and
just chip away at it until its back at ground level?

Finally - edging. I know with driveways you need an edge - but will I
need one with a patio? my main issue is where I will put the edging.
Obviously I can use the edge of the house and the shed but what about
where the neighbors fence is and my gate is?

http://img8.imageshack.us/i/img0384lvr.jpg/

If you look at this picture you can see where the patio will stop -
where there is a slight drop in the mud. The bit after will be turf -
how do i edge it? I was going to buy some of the 'log wood' edging from
B and Q to separate the patio and turf'

how would you edge the neighbors' fence?

i was hoping to not have a separate ending - just pave close as possible
to all the edges and then fill with cement/sand.

i am unsure if i will be using slabs or the smaller driveway blocks yet.

thanks for any help!

The problem with all these jobs is that, whatever new materials you're
introducing, at least the equivalent volume of old stuff has to be got
rid of. Knackering, and expensive to dispose of.
How high above the existing concrete could the new level be to avoid
problems with doorways, airbricks etc? Having a different level to your
neighbours isn't a good idea IME

mo wrote:

Another issue is that the paving will increase the height of the floor. I
will only be paving up to my gate:
http://img150.imageshack.us/i/img0387u.jpg/

Obviously this will create a small step when you open the gate and go past
it. What are the best ways around this?

I can only see 3 possible ways to avoid it

1. remove the existing concrete so you can make it all level
2. don't pave over the concrete area
3. Cut slots in the existing concrete to make it somewhat match the
new slab paving

Otherwise, there will inevitably be a change in level.


NT

mo wrote:
Hi
Wondering if anyone can help with a multitude of questions I have on a
paving project. I am going to pave over an old area using a
combination of the existing base and some new base. The area will
only be a patio and not subject to heavy traffic like a driveway.

Here goes:

This is the area to be done. Most of it already has a concrete base
which I will be leaving alone. There are 2 other areas which I will
have to fill in. http://img181.imageshack.us/i/img0374.jpg/

The 2 areas to be filled in are the ones with mud in the above
picture.
I have cleared away an old paved area as it was unlevel
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0379ijn.jpg/
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0390n.jpg/

First question:
For the 2 areas with mud, obviously I will bring them level with type
1 hardcore, then sand over both areas at once. Question is how deep
should I go? 10CM seems to be recommended for driveways but will less
be ok here? May main problem is getting rid of the mud I dig up, I've
already spent time and money on getting rid of lots of other crap
from the garden elsewhere.
This is what it looks like from an edge:
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0391n.jpg/


Another issue is that the paving will increase the height of the
floor. I will only be paving up to my gate:
http://img150.imageshack.us/i/img0387u.jpg/

Obviously this will create a small step when you open the gate and go
past it. What are the best ways around this? Maybe a sloped edge so
there is no step? I would prefer to avoid a step as I can see people
stumbling over it not remembering its there!
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0380g.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img0381a.jpg/




http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img0377u.jpg/

The fence will be one of the edges. it was put in by the neighbor and
it seems I will have to bash away some of the concrete on my side to
make it look nicer. What is the best way to do this? A chisel and
hammer and just chip away at it until its back at ground level?

Finally - edging. I know with driveways you need an edge - but will I
need one with a patio? my main issue is where I will put the edging.
Obviously I can use the edge of the house and the shed but what about
where the neighbors fence is and my gate is?

http://img8.imageshack.us/i/img0384lvr.jpg/

If you look at this picture you can see where the patio will stop -
where there is a slight drop in the mud. The bit after will be turf -
how do i edge it? I was going to buy some of the 'log wood' edging
from B and Q to separate the patio and turf'

how would you edge the neighbors' fence?

i was hoping to not have a separate ending - just pave close as
possible to all the edges and then fill with cement/sand.

i am unsure if i will be using slabs or the smaller driveway blocks
yet.
thanks for any help!

Can';t open any of those pictures due to blocked content, try tinypic
instead

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Phil L wrote:
mo wrote:
Hi
Wondering if anyone can help with a multitude of questions I have on a
paving project. I am going to pave over an old area using a
combination of the existing base and some new base. The area will
only be a patio and not subject to heavy traffic like a driveway.

Here goes:

This is the area to be done. Most of it already has a concrete base
which I will be leaving alone. There are 2 other areas which I will
have to fill in. http://img181.imageshack.us/i/img0374.jpg/

The 2 areas to be filled in are the ones with mud in the above
picture.
I have cleared away an old paved area as it was unlevel
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0379ijn.jpg/
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0390n.jpg/

First question:
For the 2 areas with mud, obviously I will bring them level with type
1 hardcore, then sand over both areas at once. Question is how deep
should I go? 10CM seems to be recommended for driveways but will less
be ok here? May main problem is getting rid of the mud I dig up, I've
already spent time and money on getting rid of lots of other crap
from the garden elsewhere.
This is what it looks like from an edge:
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0391n.jpg/


Another issue is that the paving will increase the height of the
floor. I will only be paving up to my gate:
http://img150.imageshack.us/i/img0387u.jpg/

Obviously this will create a small step when you open the gate and go
past it. What are the best ways around this? Maybe a sloped edge so
there is no step? I would prefer to avoid a step as I can see people
stumbling over it not remembering its there!
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0380g.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img0381a.jpg/




http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img0377u.jpg/

The fence will be one of the edges. it was put in by the neighbor and
it seems I will have to bash away some of the concrete on my side to
make it look nicer. What is the best way to do this? A chisel and
hammer and just chip away at it until its back at ground level?

Finally - edging. I know with driveways you need an edge - but will I
need one with a patio? my main issue is where I will put the edging.
Obviously I can use the edge of the house and the shed but what about
where the neighbors fence is and my gate is?

http://img8.imageshack.us/i/img0384lvr.jpg/

If you look at this picture you can see where the patio will stop -
where there is a slight drop in the mud. The bit after will be turf -
how do i edge it? I was going to buy some of the 'log wood' edging
from B and Q to separate the patio and turf'

how would you edge the neighbors' fence?

i was hoping to not have a separate ending - just pave close as
possible to all the edges and then fill with cement/sand.

i am unsure if i will be using slabs or the smaller driveway blocks
yet.
thanks for any help!

Can';t open any of those pictures due to blocked content, try tinypic
instead

Fully visible to me?

mo wrote:
Hi
Wondering if anyone can help with a multitude of questions I have on a
paving project. I am going to pave over an old area using a
combination of the existing base and some new base. The area will
only be a patio and not subject to heavy traffic like a driveway.

Here goes:

This is the area to be done. Most of it already has a concrete base
which I will be leaving alone. There are 2 other areas which I will
have to fill in. http://img181.imageshack.us/i/img0374.jpg/

The 2 areas to be filled in are the ones with mud in the above
picture.
I have cleared away an old paved area as it was unlevel
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0379ijn.jpg/
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/img0390n.jpg/

First question:
For the 2 areas with mud, obviously I will bring them level with type
1 hardcore, then sand over both areas at once. Question is how deep
should I go? 10CM seems to be recommended for driveways but will less
be ok here? May main problem is getting rid of the mud I dig up, I've
already spent time and money on getting rid of lots of other crap
from the garden elsewhere.
This is what it looks like from an edge:
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0391n.jpg/


Another issue is that the paving will increase the height of the
floor. I will only be paving up to my gate:
http://img150.imageshack.us/i/img0387u.jpg/

Obviously this will create a small step when you open the gate and go
past it. What are the best ways around this? Maybe a sloped edge so
there is no step? I would prefer to avoid a step as I can see people
stumbling over it not remembering its there!
http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0380g.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/img0381a.jpg/




http://img36.imageshack.us/i/img0377u.jpg/

The fence will be one of the edges. it was put in by the neighbor and
it seems I will have to bash away some of the concrete on my side to
make it look nicer. What is the best way to do this? A chisel and
hammer and just chip away at it until its back at ground level?

Finally - edging. I know with driveways you need an edge - but will I
need one with a patio? my main issue is where I will put the edging.
Obviously I can use the edge of the house and the shed but what about
where the neighbors fence is and my gate is?

http://img8.imageshack.us/i/img0384lvr.jpg/

If you look at this picture you can see where the patio will stop -
where there is a slight drop in the mud. The bit after will be turf -
how do i edge it? I was going to buy some of the 'log wood' edging
from B and Q to separate the patio and turf'

how would you edge the neighbors' fence?

i was hoping to not have a separate ending - just pave close as
possible to all the edges and then fill with cement/sand.

i am unsure if i will be using slabs or the smaller driveway blocks
yet.
thanks for any help!

There are several isues here, firstly, you intend paving over a solid
concrete base? - this is a very bad idea and the concrete shopuld be broken
up and removed, otherwise the sand you lay the paving on will wash away, and
furthermore, the part that you intend paving which hasn't got concrete
underneath it will sink slightly with settlement, leaving it lower than the
concreted part.

You /can/ lay the paving over concrete, but it will *all* need to be
concreted first, and then the paving can be laid on blobs of sand/cement,
which won't wash away, but this will still leave you with a step at the
gate, which you don't really want.

To do it properly, you need to remove all the concrete and this way you will
avoid many problems and you can also avoid the need for a step.

You don't need edgings at the fence side because there is a concrete panel
to pave to.

At the 'lawn' or garden edge, you can use paving slabs (flags) on edge,
concreted in, or build a small wall

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"Phil L" wrote in message
m...


There are several isues here, firstly, you intend paving over a solid
concrete base? - this is a very bad idea and the concrete shopuld be
broken up and removed, otherwise the sand you lay the paving on will wash
away, and furthermore, the part that you intend paving which hasn't got
concrete underneath it will sink slightly with settlement, leaving it
lower than the concreted part.


You /can/ lay the paving over concrete, but it will *all* need to be
concreted first, and then the paving can be laid on blobs of sand/cement,
which won't wash away, but this will still leave you with a step at the
gate, which you don't really want.

To do it properly, you need to remove all the concrete and this way you
will avoid many problems and you can also avoid the need for a step.

You don't need edgings at the fence side because there is a concrete panel
to pave to.

At the 'lawn' or garden edge, you can use paving slabs (flags) on edge,
concreted in, or build a small wall


Thanks for the reply

Firstly, going over the existing bit is cost saving in terms of getting rid
of stuff and saving on type 1 and sharp sand. It also makes the job seem a
lot easier for an amateur like myself!

Secondly, as an amateur I don't think it will be possibly to get a perfect
level finish because I won't be able to properly estimate how how the
finished product will be after compacting because i dunno how much
compacting will take the level down, whereas a pro can probably estimate it
due to experience

I had some pros in for estimates and they all said it was OK to go on the
existing base and it would be silly to get rid as it was fine for a base,
just to match the muddy bit up with type 1 and then sand the lot.

can my final base before the slabs be sand OR a tough surface like concrete?
i prefer the idea of a tough finished base i can just put the slabs on as it
means i wont much it up if i walk over it!
---
can i use something like this as edging on the lawn? with the bumpy bits
paving the slabs and being sanded/cemented in to give a proper conection.

---
can i use something like this as edging on the lawn? with the bumpy bits
paving the slabs and being sanded/cemented in to give a proper conection.


missing link:

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.js...&isSearch=true

or basically if the above does not work this kind of wood edging

http://www.woodlandgardenproducts.co...ging-photo.png

mo wrote:
---
can i use something like this as edging on the lawn? with the bumpy
bits paving the slabs and being sanded/cemented in to give a proper
conection.

missing link:

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.js...&isSearch=true

or basically if the above does not work this kind of wood edging

http://www.woodlandgardenproducts.co...ging-photo.png

Anything made from timber will last only a year or two, even if it's
tanalised (pressure treated), and when it rots away, it will leave a gap
that your paving will 'creep' into.

Regarding your first point, type 1 (MOT) will sink unless packed down
mechanically - I normally use a one tonne vibrating roller, but I relaise
this is overkill for a patio, but that said, you can hire a whacker plate
for a few quid and if I were you, I'd sprinkle a few bags of cement in with
the MOT prior to whacking down, then trammell the sand so as to get an even
bed - obviously once it's trammelled, you can't walk on it, so only do a
small section at a time and lay your blocks in rows, then whack the blocks
down into it when finished and brush in kiln dried pavior sand

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"Phil L" wrote in message
m...


Regarding your first point, type 1 (MOT) will sink unless packed down
mechanically - I normally use a one tonne vibrating roller, but I relaise
this is overkill for a patio, but that said, you can hire a whacker plate
for a few quid and if I were you, I'd sprinkle a few bags of cement in
with the MOT prior to whacking down, then trammell the sand so as to get
an even bed - obviously once it's trammelled, you can't walk on it, so
only do a small section at a time and lay your blocks in rows, then whack
the blocks down into it when finished and brush in kiln dried pavior sand

right so say i gor for edging - can it just be the normal slabs but they are
put in first with concrete?

i guess then its a case of type 1 edgings sharp sand rest of blocks

does that mean then the edgings get concreted/cemented? in before the sand
goes down? in which case how can you ensure the edgings end up the same
level as the normal blocks once vibrated down?

obviously the edges of the edges will have sand between them and anything
else they may touch - i.e my neighbours gravel boards - imporant incase he
wants to take them out.

mo wrote:

At the risk of being accused of plagiarism:

SNIP

http://pavingexpert.com/

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
mo wrote:

At the risk of being accused of plagiarism:

SNIP

http://pavingexpert.com/

--
Rod

I've read through that site, but some of it is hard to understand and there
seems to be some overlap with confusing advice - ??

Very useful site of course.

mo wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
m...


Regarding your first point, type 1 (MOT) will sink unless packed down
mechanically - I normally use a one tonne vibrating roller, but I
relaise this is overkill for a patio, but that said, you can hire a
whacker plate for a few quid and if I were you, I'd sprinkle a few
bags of cement in with the MOT prior to whacking down, then trammell
the sand so as to get an even bed - obviously once it's trammelled,
you can't walk on it, so only do a small section at a time and lay
your blocks in rows, then whack the blocks down into it when
finished and brush in kiln dried pavior sand

right so say i gor for edging - can it just be the normal slabs but
they are put in first with concrete?


It's up to you.
Pavingexpert and quite a few others say to put them in first and then pave
to them, but I've found that utilising full blocks or flags is easier than
trying to cut a million pieces around an already defined edge

i guess then its a case of type 1 edgings sharp sand rest of
blocks
does that mean then the edgings get concreted/cemented? in before the
sand goes down? in which case how can you ensure the edgings end up
the same level as the normal blocks once vibrated down?

They don't get vibrated down, you vibrate the main body first and then
cement the edgings to that level - this is another bone of contention.
The drawback with doing it this way is that the edges of the main boddy have
to be spragged up, IE braced all around so that they don't creep with the
whacker.
That said, if you put the edges on cement and allow to set and then lay and
whack, the cement will often break up with the vibrations so you've gained
nothing


obviously the edges of the edges will have sand between them and
anything else they may touch - i.e my neighbours gravel boards -
imporant incase he wants to take them out.

By edges I presume you mean borders? - edges are uprights which stand proud
of the finished paving, against lawns, flowerbeds etc

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...

It's up to you.
Pavingexpert and quite a few others say to put them in first and then pave
to them, but I've found that utilising full blocks or flags is easier than
trying to cut a million pieces around an already defined edge

They don't get vibrated down, you vibrate the main body first and then
cement the edgings to that level - this is another bone of contention.
The drawback with doing it this way is that the edges of the main boddy
have to be spragged up, IE braced all around so that they don't creep with
the whacker.
That said, if you put the edges on cement and allow to set and then lay
and whack, the cement will often break up with the vibrations so you've
gained nothing

hmm, i like the idea of putting them on first i think.


By edges I presume you mean borders? - edges are uprights which stand
proud of the finished paving, against lawns, flowerbeds etc


right, so say against my neighbours fence i would have an edge where it
stops before it touches his fence - whereas with my own house the last thing
will just be a border where it touches my house and the house absorbs any
pressure/weight?

what materials is the final layer you use before you put the slabs down?
just sharp sand?

mo wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message
om...

It's up to you.
Pavingexpert and quite a few others say to put them in first and
then pave to them, but I've found that utilising full blocks or
flags is easier than trying to cut a million pieces around an
already defined edge

They don't get vibrated down, you vibrate the main body first and
then cement the edgings to that level - this is another bone of
contention. The drawback with doing it this way is that the edges of
the main boddy have to be spragged up, IE braced all around so that
they don't creep with the whacker.
That said, if you put the edges on cement and allow to set and then
lay and whack, the cement will often break up with the vibrations so
you've gained nothing

hmm, i like the idea of putting them on first i think.

Therein lies a thousand headaches, but feel free.



By edges I presume you mean borders? - edges are uprights which stand
proud of the finished paving, against lawns, flowerbeds etc


right, so say against my neighbours fence i would have an edge where
it stops before it touches his fence - whereas with my own house the
last thing will just be a border where it touches my house and the
house absorbs any pressure/weight?

You don't need an edge against a fence, just pave up to it....if it makes
you feel any better, just stop an inch short (use a stringline) and fill the
remaining gap with pea gravel prior to whacking

what materials is the final layer you use before you put the slabs
down? just sharp sand?

Grit sand, preferably the yellow sandstone type, rather than the 'beach'
sand.
under no circumstances use red building sand

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

Another question

Where my paving ends and my grass starts - i suppose i can just have edging
which is concreted in but is flat like my normal slabs and then just fill in
with soil and start my grass straight after?

mo wrote:
Another question

Where my paving ends and my grass starts - i suppose i can just have
edging which is concreted in but is flat like my normal slabs and then
just fill in with soil and start my grass straight after?

Or just pack the first couple of inches at the edge with sand/cement.
I wouldn't bother with compacting either. If you pack out and level the
slabs as you go, it really isn't necessary for light duty traffic. In
any case, that's a fairly foolproof method for amateurs, and you can do
a bit at a time. Tough on the back otherwise.