I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is the
2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell 3-wire (plus
CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable is already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is used
for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be brown for
live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Bob Eager wrote:

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is used
for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be brown for
live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Brown for line, black with brown sleeve for switched line and grey with
blue sleeve for neutral.

Use of a black core for neutral is strongly deprecated since it is now a
line (phase) colour.

--
Andy

On Wed, 27 May 2009 23:13:39 UTC, Andy Wade
wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is used
for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be brown for
live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Brown for line, black with brown sleeve for switched line and grey with
blue sleeve for neutral.

Use of a black core for neutral is strongly deprecated since it is now a
line (phase) colour.

Bloody hell, that was quick for this time of night...

I did wonder about the black, but was pretty sure about the brown...and
yes, I do have brown and blue sleeving...

Thanks...will get on with that tomorrow.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is the
2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell 3-wire (plus
CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable is already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is used
for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be brown for
live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Perversely, I've heard of a lot of people (IET Forums) trying to avoid black
for neutral to positively break the old association (eg 3 core SWA taking
L/N/E to a shed).

I think that's taking things a bit far, but it's what I've heard.

Everyone seems agreed that the usual single phase line colour (ie brown) is
a good candidate to use for the permanent live.

At the end of the day, as long as it's sleeved correctly to remove all
ambiguity that's what matters most, but grandma, eggs etc... ;-

Cheers

Tim

On Thu, 28 May 2009 00:13:39 +0100, Andy Wade
had this to say:

Use of a black core for neutral is strongly deprecated since it is now a
line (phase) colour.

Isn't that totally crackers?

It's the sort of thing that could only be dreamed up by the EU.

--
Frank Erskine

On Thu, 28 May 2009 00:47:03 +0100 someone who may be Frank Erskine
wrote this:-

Use of a black core for neutral is strongly deprecated since it is now a
line (phase) colour.

Isn't that totally crackers?

It's the sort of thing that could only be dreamed up by the EU.

Nice try, but it wasn't dreamed up by the EU. Neither is it
crackers.

It was "dreamed up" by the IET. They gave members and interested
people some time to cogitate on the matter. To make cogitation
easier they provided a table of wiring colours in (IIRC) at least
western Europe. I couldn't think of a better solution to the one
they implemented, but if you can do so then why not suggest it to
show that if only they had asked you they would have been amazed by
you spotting something thousands of others didn't. By the way the
main issue was not with black, that was a fairly easy one, but
whether to retain separate colours for each phase and, if so, after
brown and black what third colour to use. Grey was the best option
for this third colour in my view.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen coughed up some electrons that declared:


It was "dreamed up" by the IET. They gave members and interested
people some time to cogitate on the matter. To make cogitation
easier they provided a table of wiring colours in (IIRC) at least
western Europe. I couldn't think of a better solution to the one
they implemented, but if you can do so then why not suggest it to
show that if only they had asked you they would have been amazed by
you spotting something thousands of others didn't. By the way the
main issue was not with black, that was a fairly easy one, but
whether to retain separate colours for each phase and, if so, after
brown and black what third colour to use. Grey was the best option
for this third colour in my view.



In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were not
only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown, grey and
black.

Whilst I can see the merits of harmonised colours on appliance flex, as
those are made and marketed across the world, I see few merits in EU
harmonisation down to this level.

Just my 2p's worth.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is
the 2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell 3-wire
(plus CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable is
already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is
used for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be
brown for live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Perversely, I've heard of a lot of people (IET Forums) trying to
avoid black for neutral to positively break the old association (eg 3
core SWA taking L/N/E to a shed).

I think that's taking things a bit far, but it's what I've heard.

Everyone seems agreed that the usual single phase line colour (ie
brown) is a good candidate to use for the permanent live.

Nobody asked me :-(

These colours don't seem 'natural' to me. With the old colours red was the
obvious live - red for danger, black the obvious neutral.

With the new colours they seem the wrong way around; electricity is 'blue'
to me, brown is a drab nuetral colour.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:


Nobody asked me :-(

These colours don't seem 'natural' to me. With the old colours red was
the
obvious live - red for danger, black the obvious neutral.

With the new colours they seem the wrong way around; electricity is 'blue'
to me, brown is a drab nuetral colour.



I agree completely. I really don't know what demon of stupidity made them
think switching a perfectly good established system was a good idea

On Thu, 28 May 2009 08:54:09 +0100 someone who may be Tim S
wrote this:-

I agree completely. I really don't know what demon of stupidity made them
think switching a perfectly good established system was a good idea

It was explained at the time. Quite possibly the IET/IEE web site
has copies of their reasoning should you wish to point out the flaws
in it. "We don't like change" is not a particularly convincing flaw.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 28 May, 07:30, David Hansen
wrote:

It was "dreamed up" by the IET. They gave members and interested
people some time to cogitate on the matter. To make cogitation
easier they provided a table of wiring colours in (IIRC) at least
western Europe. I couldn't think of a better solution to the one
they implemented,

Start wiring purple.

The whole problem stems from the problematic re-use of blue & black.
So we shouldn't have done this - there's hardly a shortage of other
colours.

David Hansen wrote:

"We don't like change" is not a particularly convincing flaw.

It's only not convincing to people who have to fill their day dreaming
up schemes where it's change for changes sake...

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On Thu, 28 May 2009 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Andy
Dingley wrote this:-

The whole problem stems from the problematic re-use of blue & black.

Blue was only used in three phase wiring. Anyway the harmonised blue
is a light blue, not the deep blue of the L3 conductor insulation.

Black is a more difficult case. However, my recollection of the
discussion is that it is used to indicate an energised conductor in
several wiring schemes and thus it made sense to adopt it.

So we shouldn't have done this - there's hardly a shortage of other
colours.

"We" did this in the interests of standardisation. My recollection
of the discussion is that the "plenty of other colours" become fewer
when one looks into it. It is most unlikely that people would adopt
a brand new wiring colour scheme just because the IET devised it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
Use of a black core for neutral is strongly deprecated since it is now a
line (phase) colour.

Isn't that totally crackers?

It's the sort of thing that could only be dreamed up by the EU.

Does seem strange to me too - since most used blue for neutral on the old
colours when using three phase wiring for this purpose.

But I can understand the reasoning behind it. It might make sense to have
triple and earth available for this purpose where the colours weren't used
for anything else. Or even three browns would make sense.

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were not
only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown, grey and
black.

Snag is brown now denotes one of the phase colours - and triple and earth
is three phase wiring.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Tim S wrote:
Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is
the 2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell 3-wire
(plus CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable is
already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is
used for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be
brown for live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Perversely, I've heard of a lot of people (IET Forums) trying to
avoid black for neutral to positively break the old association (eg 3
core SWA taking L/N/E to a shed).

I think that's taking things a bit far, but it's what I've heard.

Everyone seems agreed that the usual single phase line colour (ie
brown) is a good candidate to use for the permanent live.

Nobody asked me :-(

These colours don't seem 'natural' to me. With the old colours red was
the
obvious live - red for danger, black the obvious neutral.

With the new colours they seem the wrong way around; electricity is 'blue'
to me, brown is a drab nuetral colour.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Isn't brown the earth wire;-)?

Adam

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim S wrote:
In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were not
only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown, grey and
black.

Snag is brown now denotes one of the phase colours - and triple and earth

Hasn't it always?

is three phase wiring.

Well can be either single or three...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were
not only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown,
grey and black.

Snag is brown now denotes one of the phase colours - and triple and
earth

Hasn't it always?

is three phase wiring.

Yes - but with RYB, blue wasn't an old colour for neutral - unlike black
is now. Do try and keep up. ;-)

Well can be either single or three...

Then why those colours - then as now?

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
Tim S wrote:
Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is
the 2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell
3-wire (plus CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable
is already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is
used for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be
brown for live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Perversely, I've heard of a lot of people (IET Forums) trying to
avoid black for neutral to positively break the old association (eg
3 core SWA taking L/N/E to a shed).

I think that's taking things a bit far, but it's what I've heard.

Everyone seems agreed that the usual single phase line colour (ie
brown) is a good candidate to use for the permanent live.

Nobody asked me :-(

These colours don't seem 'natural' to me. With the old colours red
was the obvious live - red for danger, black the obvious neutral.

With the new colours they seem the wrong way around; electricity is
'blue' to me, brown is a drab nuetral colour.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Isn't brown the earth wire;-)?

Well, yes. Earth is brown, red for danger/live. Magnolia for neutral?
Sorted! :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

David Hansen coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Thu, 28 May 2009 08:54:09 +0100 someone who may be Tim S
wrote this:-

I agree completely. I really don't know what demon of stupidity made them
think switching a perfectly good established system was a good idea

It was explained at the time. Quite possibly the IET/IEE web site
has copies of their reasoning should you wish to point out the flaws
in it. "We don't like change" is not a particularly convincing flaw.



I don't need to read their reasoning to have an opinion David.

I've also not seen *anyone* on the IET's forum (ie the "users") who have had
a good word for it. Some are neutral but I don;t recall a single person
praising it as a radical improvement that is solving a problem that
everyone's been grumbling about for years.

Coming up with a less crap domestic installation cable than T+E would rate
higher on my personal list.

To me it appears an wholly unnecessary change from a perfectly well
understood and clear system.

Then I didn't have some invisible body pressurising me to "harmonise" for
the sake of it.

Having used some new triple + E, it's a bloody pain in dimly lit areas to
discern the colours - no where near as clear as R/Y/B.

How can this possibly be classed as "progress"?

Cheers

Tim

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were not
only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown, grey and
black.

Snag is brown now denotes one of the phase colours - and triple and earth
is three phase wiring.


Exactly Dave - they should have left the whole installation side alone and
lead red/black as the single phase scheme. It would probably have been
betetr for everyone if the appliance flexes had been left alone, but I've
already said that I can see the point of a world standard for those - pity
it wasn't our standard.

But houses don't get ebay'ed across borders, so I see no need whatsoever for
this level of harmonisation.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Exactly Dave - they should have left the whole installation side alone
and lead red/black as the single phase scheme. It would probably have
been betetr for everyone if the appliance flexes had been left alone,
but I've already said that I can see the point of a world standard for
those - pity it wasn't our standard.

But houses don't get ebay'ed across borders, so I see no need whatsoever
for this level of harmonisation.

There certainly was a need for a change in flex colours - as something
like 30% of the adult male population with blue eyes is red/green colour
blind. And mistaking those was the most dangerous situation. Hence the
green/yellow stripe - even a dog could tell that one apart. ;-)

And having standardised on one set of colours for flex- why have different
ones for rigid wiring? Makes no sense at all.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

this level of harmonisation.

There certainly was a need for a change in flex colours - as something
like 30% of the adult male population with blue eyes is red/green colour
blind. And mistaking those was the most dangerous situation. Hence the
green/yellow stripe - even a dog could tell that one apart. ;-)

I agree on the CPC - and it still contained green so no source of confusion
pre or post change.

And having standardised on one set of colours for flex- why have different
ones for rigid wiring? Makes no sense at all.

If we were starting with a clean slate, I'd agree. And *most* everyday flex
is single phase. If we all had 3 phase appliances, I'd whine like buggery
about having black and grey in those for the same reasons.

But fixed wiring is in a fairly clear and contained domain. Red and black is
probably more obvious to the uninitiated than brown and blue, so it's
clear. And we're changing from a system that caused no-one any problems.
Out of the whole think, I think that re-using black as a phase colour was
probably the most insane decision. A *lot* of sites are going to be
sporting mixed installations for the next good couple of decades.

All I'm saying is why change from something that was clear and established
to something that is IMHO less clear just so some comittee can sink back
and indulge itself in a well earned post mastabatory cigarette?

Most of the output from the IET is sane and good and well considered. I
really suspect they were "encouraged" to persue this colour standardisation
for installation wiring by someone with a bee.

Cheers

Tim

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
Tim S wrote:
Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is
the 2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell
3-wire (plus CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable
is already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is
used for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be
brown for live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....

Perversely, I've heard of a lot of people (IET Forums) trying to
avoid black for neutral to positively break the old association (eg
3 core SWA taking L/N/E to a shed).

I think that's taking things a bit far, but it's what I've heard.

Everyone seems agreed that the usual single phase line colour (ie
brown) is a good candidate to use for the permanent live.

Nobody asked me :-(

These colours don't seem 'natural' to me. With the old colours red
was the obvious live - red for danger, black the obvious neutral.

With the new colours they seem the wrong way around; electricity is
'blue' to me, brown is a drab nuetral colour.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Isn't brown the earth wire;-)?

Well, yes. Earth is brown, red for danger/live. Magnolia for neutral?
Sorted! :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Apart from a couple of customers who actually have used brown for earth most
people would not have a problem.

But "Magnolia for neutral". LMFAO.

Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
Tim S wrote:
Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

I'm just replacing an old room stat with a new one. The old one is
the 2-wire (plus CPC) version, and the new one is a Honeywell
3-wire (plus CPC). I have no problem with the actual wiring (cable
is already run).

However, is there any convention for which of the three colours is
used for live, switched live, and neutral? My instinct would be
brown for live, grey for switched live, and black for neutral....
Perversely, I've heard of a lot of people (IET Forums) trying to
avoid black for neutral to positively break the old association (eg
3 core SWA taking L/N/E to a shed).

I think that's taking things a bit far, but it's what I've heard.

Everyone seems agreed that the usual single phase line colour (ie
brown) is a good candidate to use for the permanent live.
Nobody asked me :-(

These colours don't seem 'natural' to me. With the old colours red
was the obvious live - red for danger, black the obvious neutral.

With the new colours they seem the wrong way around; electricity is
'blue' to me, brown is a drab nuetral colour.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Isn't brown the earth wire;-)?
Well, yes. Earth is brown, red for danger/live. Magnolia for neutral?
Sorted! :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Apart from a couple of customers who actually have used brown for earth most
people would not have a problem.

But "Magnolia for neutral". LMFAO.

Adam


But isn't Earth the Blue Planet?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:17:16 +0100 someone who may be Tim S
wrote this:-

Out of the whole think, I think that re-using black as a phase colour was
probably the most insane decision. A *lot* of sites are going to be
sporting mixed installations for the next good couple of decades.

Anybody who is able to cope properly with three phase wiring is
unlikely to be bothered. The new colours seemed strange to me at
first, but they soon became natural. I can cope with both sets of
colours without thinking now and I don't do wiring every day. If the
IET have made a mistake then there should already be an observable
effect. AFAIK there has not been one.

I suggest that the changes to DC wiring colours are a little more
difficult to get to grips with.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were
not only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown,
grey and black.
Snag is brown now denotes one of the phase colours - and triple and
earth

Hasn't it always?

is three phase wiring.

Yes - but with RYB, blue wasn't an old colour for neutral - unlike black
is now. Do try and keep up. ;-)

Well can be either single or three...

Then why those colours - then as now?

Your sig was very apt on this subject :-)

*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. ie, the EU

Dave

On Thu, 28 May 2009 19:35:55 +0100 someone who may be Tim S
wrote this:-

I don;t recall a single person
praising it as a radical improvement that is solving a problem that
everyone's been grumbling about for years.

Did anyone claim anything of the sort?

Then I didn't have some invisible body pressurising me to "harmonise" for
the sake of it.

I hope you are not thinking of Frank's "EU". Personally I think they
should have done it a long time ago, but the delay did at least
allow grey to emerge as a colour. Had they done it earlier we might
have ended up with brown everywhere.

Having used some new triple + E, it's a bloody pain in dimly lit areas to
discern the colours - no where near as clear as R/Y/B.

How can this possibly be classed as "progress"?

I have had no trouble. If I did I would shine some light on it. I'm
not convinced about RYB being clearer in the same lighting
conditions, I suspect familiarity is at work.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Exactly Dave - they should have left the whole installation side alone
and lead red/black as the single phase scheme. It would probably have
been betetr for everyone if the appliance flexes had been left alone,
but I've already said that I can see the point of a world standard for
those - pity it wasn't our standard.

But houses don't get ebay'ed across borders, so I see no need whatsoever
for this level of harmonisation.

There certainly was a need for a change in flex colours - as something
like 30% of the adult male population with blue eyes is red/green colour
blind. And mistaking those was the most dangerous situation. Hence the
green/yellow stripe - even a dog could tell that one apart. ;-)

Oi, I am slightly red/green colour blind and I have never wired a plug
up wrong. :-)

I have seen someone who was totally colour blind, paint parts of an
aircraft that were green and brown and get them back to front.

And having standardised on one set of colours for flex- why have different
ones for rigid wiring? Makes no sense at all.

That also puzzles me. Thank Gawd I have lots of cable with the old
colours left.

Dave

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
In my view, they should have left it alone. Red, yellow and blue were
not only fine, but visually very clear - far better IMHO than brown,
grey and black.
Snag is brown now denotes one of the phase colours - and triple and
earth

Hasn't it always?

is three phase wiring.

Yes - but with RYB, blue wasn't an old colour for neutral - unlike black
is now. Do try and keep up. ;-)

I do try, my failing was to assume your argument was logical - I thought
we were talking about brown, not blue ;-)




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

David Hansen wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:17:16 +0100 someone who may be Tim S
wrote this:-

Out of the whole think, I think that re-using black as a phase colour was
probably the most insane decision. A *lot* of sites are going to be
sporting mixed installations for the next good couple of decades.

Anybody who is able to cope properly with three phase wiring is
unlikely to be bothered. The new colours seemed strange to me at
first, but they soon became natural. I can cope with both sets of
colours without thinking now and I don't do wiring every day. If the
IET have made a mistake then there should already be an observable
effect. AFAIK there has not been one.

There has been a rise in fatalities from fixed wiring recently, although
I expect most of these have been caused by part P - three phase does not
feature often enough in domestic work to figure.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:57:41 UTC, John Rumm
wrote:

Yes - but with RYB, blue wasn't an old colour for neutral - unlike black
is now. Do try and keep up. ;-)

I do try, my failing was to assume your argument was logical - I thought
we were talking about brown, not blue ;-)

My wife said that brown was obviously earth, because brown is the colour
of earth.

Then she remembered she was using the wrong aide-memoire - brown is
line, because that's the crispy colour you turn if you get it wrong.

Personally, I prefer brown as the colour your trousers should be in case
you get it wrong...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:56:14 +0100 someone who may be Dave
wrote this:-

*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

True.

ie, the EU

Not in the case of wiring colours in the UK.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54