Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about £450 for the past
quarter.
I was amassed.
The bill is paid by monthly direct debit and it just about flatted the
accumulated credit in our account since our last bill.
No doubt the supplier will increase my approx £110 per month direct debit as
we are not out of the winter period yet.
The bill is for both gas and electricity.

We switched suppliers a couple of years ago using Uswitch so we are not with
the historical suppliers for the area.
I will be comparing prices again soon once the playing field is level.

Our house is a semi dormer bungalow ( not a very big one ) in the North
West.
We have cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, double glazing, combi
boiler ( 2 yrs old ), and programmable room stat.
Most of our light fittings are CFL's.
We have a dishwasher, tumble drier and electric oven with gas hob.

It's difficult to see how we could economise more than we do on the high
consumption appliances - especially gas.

I am starting to look at the electrical consumption of low consumption
items.
For example, the door bell transformer is lowish consumption but powered up
24/7/365 and it is an old style one and not a Switched Mode Power Supply.
I know from my electronic engineering training that the 'old style'
transformers are relatively inefficient compared to SMPS - iron losses and
such.

This is very much a 'started today' project but on basic calculations if the
bell transformer consumed 100mA ( not yet measured it so I may be way out )
and it's powered up 8736 hrs per year ( all year ) and my supplier charges
9p per kilowatt hour ( excl VAT ) then it's costing us £18.86 per year just
for the bell transformer.
Our alarm system also has a 'traditional' PSU and is powered up all year.
That is likely to consume more than the bell transformer as equipment IS
being powered 24/7 so, on assumed consumption figures ( mA ), we are now up
to more than £37 per year wasted, much of it on iron loss.
I know that most modern electronic devices/appliances use SMPU power
supplies.

I'm thinking of swapping power supplies for these 'traditional' items to
SMPU's - easy for the door bell, not as easy for the alarm system.

We have several modern devices powered up 24/7/365, cable modem, router,
network switch and the usual videos, TVs etc.
I am thinking of putting these on electronic timeswitches to power them down
between, say, 01.00 am to 10.00 am.

I know the real killers are tumble driers, cookers, washing machines etc as
regards electricity consumption.

Basically I'm looking for any other ideas to reduce our consumption based on
the info I have given.

All of the low consumption items take little power individually but added
together and viewed over 12 months powered up time, savings with possible
power unit conversion could be worth while.

BTW I have loads of redundant SMPS units to use so no capital outlay.

Time to get out my AC current meter and calculate just what each is costing
us - then add it up.

Any suggestions ??






--
The eMail address used in newsgroups is invalid - reply to group only for me
to see.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:13:17 UTC, "JDT2Q" wrote:

We switched suppliers a couple of years ago using Uswitch so we are not with
the historical suppliers for the area.
I will be comparing prices again soon once the playing field is level.

Be aware that Uswitch are good at hiding some companies if they don't
get a kickback.

I am starting to look at the electrical consumption of low consumption
items.
I'm thinking of swapping power supplies for these 'traditional' items to
SMPU's - easy for the door bell, not as easy for the alarm system.

Good idea...although I suspect it's less than you'd think.

We have several modern devices powered up 24/7/365, cable modem, router,
network switch and the usual videos, TVs etc.
I am thinking of putting these on electronic timeswitches to power them down
between, say, 01.00 am to 10.00 am.

Video and TV should just be turned off when not in use. Can leave
something on if you need to record - a time switch just makes it fiddly
then.

I know the real killers are tumble driers, cookers, washing machines etc as
regards electricity consumption.

Tumble drier particularly - don't know the economics of gas ones, given
initial costs.

Basically I'm looking for any other ideas to reduce our consumption based on
the info I have given.

I found our washing machine consumes nearly 10 watts on 'standby' - that
is, when it's finished the wash but not been turned off at the wall.

I've built some low consumption PCs since some have to be on all the
time. The firewall (a FreeBSD machine) is under 20 watts.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

JDT2Q wrote:
Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about �450 for the past
quarter.
I was amassed.
The bill is paid by monthly direct debit and it just about flatted the
accumulated credit in our account since our last bill.
No doubt the supplier will increase my approx �110 per month direct debit as
we are not out of the winter period yet.
The bill is for both gas and electricity.

We switched suppliers a couple of years ago using Uswitch so we are not with
the historical suppliers for the area.
I will be comparing prices again soon once the playing field is level.

Our house is a semi dormer bungalow ( not a very big one ) in the North
West.
We have cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, double glazing, combi
boiler ( 2 yrs old ), and programmable room stat.
Most of our light fittings are CFL's.
We have a dishwasher, tumble drier and electric oven with gas hob.

It's difficult to see how we could economise more than we do on the high
consumption appliances - especially gas.

the tumble dryer's an easy one.
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index....=Clothes_Dryer


I am starting to look at the electrical consumption of low consumption
items.
For example, the door bell transformer is lowish consumption but powered up
24/7/365 and it is an old style one and not a Switched Mode Power Supply.
I know from my electronic engineering training that the 'old style'
transformers are relatively inefficient compared to SMPS - iron losses and
such.

small ones are, yes.


This is very much a 'started today' project but on basic calculations if the
bell transformer consumed 100mA ( not yet measured it so I may be way out )
and it's powered up 8736 hrs per year ( all year ) and my supplier charges
9p per kilowatt hour ( excl VAT ) then it's costing us �18.86 per year just
for the bell transformer.

3w would be more realistic.

Our alarm system also has a 'traditional' PSU and is powered up all year.
That is likely to consume more than the bell transformer as equipment IS
being powered 24/7 so, on assumed consumption figures ( mA ), we are now up
to more than �37 per year wasted, much of it on iron loss.
I know that most modern electronic devices/appliances use SMPU power
supplies.

I'm thinking of swapping power supplies for these 'traditional' items to
SMPU's - easy for the door bell, not as easy for the alarm system.

We have several modern devices powered up 24/7/365, cable modem, router,
network switch and the usual videos, TVs etc.
I am thinking of putting these on electronic timeswitches to power them down
between, say, 01.00 am to 10.00 am.

I know the real killers are tumble driers, cookers, washing machines etc as
regards electricity consumption.

exactly, and those are tacklable.
Tumble dryer: as described in the wiki link
Foods: use lids on pans, turning the gas all the way down
Veg: nuke rather than boil, add 1tb of butter & water first, they
taste better too.
Oven: put foods to be cooked in without preheating the oven. The foods
ready a couple of minutes sooner, and you lose 5 minutes of on time.
If you use a pc as a router, make it an old laptop


Basically I'm looking for any other ideas to reduce our consumption based on
the info I have given.

All of the low consumption items take little power individually but added
together and viewed over 12 months powered up time, savings with possible
power unit conversion could be worth while.

BTW I have loads of redundant SMPS units to use so no capital outlay.

right... should be esy to replace the wallwarts then. But I'd check
the smpsus dont use just as much. Dont assume theyre more efficient,
but they will usually eat less when on standby.


Time to get out my AC current meter and calculate just what each is costing
us - then add it up.

Any suggestions ??

yes - measure everything, the power consumption. You need an rms
reading meter, a standard ammeter wont be much use.


NT

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:13:17 -0000, JDT2Q wrote:

Any suggestions ??

You don't say how much is actually electric of that bill, I would expect
gas to be the majority, but assuming you are only targeting the electric I
would start by grabbing a whole house energy meter (owl, eco-eye, efergy
etc). They are not 100% accurate, they don't need to be, they are only a
quick method of targeting whats taking the power.

Also re-switch the computer and tv gear onto separate gang plugs where
needed so that one whole set can turn off with one switch and leave on the
sky+/recorder as needed. That alone saved me £10 per month.

Your likely to find that things like the bell use almost nothing, and the
bigger items like the fridge/freezer that are using the most, but you may
find others that catch you out. The meter helps find what the usage is,
but is also helpful in enforcing a habit of switching things off, or using
things less (like a kettle etc)

Steve

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:13:17 -0000, "JDT2Q" wrote:

Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about £450 for the past
quarter.

TRVs on radiators are very effective and how you program your roomstat.
Having it lower during the day when you are either out or relatively active and
much lower during the night. Then of course, only heating the water when it's
required. These changes would make a substantial difference, if not already
done.

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:08:49 +0000, Andy Cap
wrote:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:13:17 -0000, "JDT2Q" wrote:

Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about £450 for the past
quarter.

TRVs on radiators are very effective and how you program your roomstat.
Having it lower during the day when you are either out or relatively active and
much lower during the night. Then of course, only heating the water when it's
required. These changes would make a substantial difference, if not already
done.

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:13:17 -0000, JDT2Q wrote:

if the bell transformer consumed 100mA ( not yet measured it so I may be
way out )

Do the maths on P=VA, 24W of losses in a transformer how hot does this
thing run!

You can probably disconnect the transformer and patch batteries in
instead. The bell only takes power when the push is pressed, batteries
last for donkeys years.

my supplier charges 9p per kilowatt hour ( excl VAT )

That's a good ball park price these days.

I'm thinking of swapping power supplies for these 'traditional' items to
SMPU's - easy for the door bell, not as easy for the alarm system.

Might be worth it for the alarm but feel the transformer, I really don't
think there will be much loss in it to be honest.

We have several modern devices powered up 24/7/365, cable modem, router,
network switch and the usual videos, TVs etc.

All those things taking power, the modem/router/switch are probably 30W
all together add in the TV's Videos and other set top boxes and you might
be looking at 2 units/day or £60/year.

I know the real killers are tumble driers, cookers, washing machines etc
as regards electricity consumption.

Tumble dryer as they take quite a bit for a long time. Other things may be
high loads but don't take high power for long. Fridges and freezers
consume quite a bit are they A or A+ rated appliances?

--
Cheers
Dave.

JDT2Q wrote:
Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about £450 for the past
quarter.
I was amassed.
The bill is paid by monthly direct debit and it just about flatted the
accumulated credit in our account since our last bill.
No doubt the supplier will increase my approx £110 per month direct debit as
we are not out of the winter period yet.
The bill is for both gas and electricity.

We switched suppliers a couple of years ago using Uswitch so we are not with
the historical suppliers for the area.
I will be comparing prices again soon once the playing field is level.

Our house is a semi dormer bungalow ( not a very big one ) in the North
West.
We have cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, double glazing, combi
boiler ( 2 yrs old ), and programmable room stat.
Most of our light fittings are CFL's.
We have a dishwasher, tumble drier and electric oven with gas hob.

It's difficult to see how we could economise more than we do on the high
consumption appliances - especially gas.

I am starting to look at the electrical consumption of low consumption
items.
For example, the door bell transformer is lowish consumption but powered up
24/7/365 and it is an old style one and not a Switched Mode Power Supply.
I know from my electronic engineering training that the 'old style'
transformers are relatively inefficient compared to SMPS - iron losses and
such.

This is very much a 'started today' project but on basic calculations if the
bell transformer consumed 100mA ( not yet measured it so I may be way out )
and it's powered up 8736 hrs per year ( all year ) and my supplier charges
9p per kilowatt hour ( excl VAT ) then it's costing us £18.86 per year just
for the bell transformer.
Our alarm system also has a 'traditional' PSU and is powered up all year.
That is likely to consume more than the bell transformer as equipment IS
being powered 24/7 so, on assumed consumption figures ( mA ), we are now up
to more than £37 per year wasted, much of it on iron loss.
I know that most modern electronic devices/appliances use SMPU power
supplies.

I'm thinking of swapping power supplies for these 'traditional' items to
SMPU's - easy for the door bell, not as easy for the alarm system.

We have several modern devices powered up 24/7/365, cable modem, router,
network switch and the usual videos, TVs etc.
I am thinking of putting these on electronic timeswitches to power them down
between, say, 01.00 am to 10.00 am.

I know the real killers are tumble driers, cookers, washing machines etc as
regards electricity consumption.

Basically I'm looking for any other ideas to reduce our consumption based on
the info I have given.

All of the low consumption items take little power individually but added
together and viewed over 12 months powered up time, savings with possible
power unit conversion could be worth while.

BTW I have loads of redundant SMPS units to use so no capital outlay.

Time to get out my AC current meter and calculate just what each is costing
us - then add it up.

Any suggestions ??


Only a comment from David Mackay's book 'without hot air'

'A little of a little makes a little'

Dont waste your time trying to shave 5% off 5% of your costs.

Better to go for 2% of 50%..

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:43:06 +0000, Mark
wrote:

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house. Worth considering
though, according to personal circumstances.

In article ,
"JDT2Q" writes:
Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about £450 for the past
quarter.
I was amassed.
The bill is paid by monthly direct debit and it just about flatted the
accumulated credit in our account since our last bill.
No doubt the supplier will increase my approx £110 per month direct debit as
we are not out of the winter period yet.
The bill is for both gas and electricity.

We switched suppliers a couple of years ago using Uswitch so we are not with
the historical suppliers for the area.
I will be comparing prices again soon once the playing field is level.

Our house is a semi dormer bungalow ( not a very big one ) in the North
West.
We have cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, double glazing, combi
boiler ( 2 yrs old ), and programmable room stat.
Most of our light fittings are CFL's.
We have a dishwasher, tumble drier and electric oven with gas hob.

It's difficult to see how we could economise more than we do on the high
consumption appliances - especially gas.

I'm assuming your 2 year old combi is a condensing one?
To make that most efficient, turn down the heating water temperature.
Ideally, you want it low enough that the room stat almost, but never
quite has to click off, although that's an ideal you might struggle
to achieve in practice. That point will vary with outside temperature,
and you'll need to boost it back up temporarily when getting house
warmed up from cold. (This is what a weather compensation control
system will do for you automatically.)

When you are out of the house for periods of time, are you still heating
it? (Having had remote control over my heating for nearly 10 years now,
I'm somewhat amazed this still isn't a standard feature in all new
heating systems.)

I am starting to look at the electrical consumption of low consumption
items.
For example, the door bell transformer is lowish consumption but powered up
24/7/365 and it is an old style one and not a Switched Mode Power Supply.
I know from my electronic engineering training that the 'old style'
transformers are relatively inefficient compared to SMPS - iron losses and
such.

This is very much a 'started today' project but on basic calculations if the
bell transformer consumed 100mA ( not yet measured it so I may be way out )
and it's powered up 8736 hrs per year ( all year ) and my supplier charges
9p per kilowatt hour ( excl VAT ) then it's costing us £18.86 per year just
for the bell transformer.

You will be way out. It's probably giving off something like 1W.
Using a ballbark figure of £1/W/year, that's going to cost you
about £1.

Our alarm system also has a 'traditional' PSU and is powered up all year.
That is likely to consume more than the bell transformer as equipment IS
being powered 24/7 so, on assumed consumption figures ( mA ), we are now up
to more than £37 per year wasted, much of it on iron loss.
I know that most modern electronic devices/appliances use SMPU power
supplies.

I'm thinking of swapping power supplies for these 'traditional' items to
SMPU's - easy for the door bell, not as easy for the alarm system.

Some SMPSU's are highly efficient (e.g. most recent mobile phone
ones, which just aren't worth switching off anymore). However,
many are not, and without data on the efficiency, you might not
gain anything. I buy SMPSU's quite often for projects I build,
and mostly I just have go by trial and error to find efficient
ones, and discard the less efficient ones I happen to come by.

We have several modern devices powered up 24/7/365, cable modem, router,
network switch and the usual videos, TVs etc.
I am thinking of putting these on electronic timeswitches to power them down
between, say, 01.00 am to 10.00 am.

Modern TV's, videos, etc which are made for multiple countries will
be very low power on standby, as many of those countries now require
that. Things that are made only for use in the UK, such as set top
boxes, cable modems, etc can be very poor, as we don't have any such
requirements. That can also apply to separate UK-specific wall-wart
power supplies for things like routers/switches. (E.g. Netgear products
in the UK seem to come with horribly inefficient wall-wart supplies,
but the identical product bought elsewhere can be obtained with an
efficient SMPSU.)

A number of the anciliary devices which come with their own wall
warts, I instead power from the PC's power supply (drawn off from
a spare disk drive power connector). You can only safely do this
for items which are completely isolated (e.g. ethernet switch,
WiFi access point, etc) or devices which you know share a common
0V ground reference with the PC. Don't do it with anything which
interfaces to a phone/ADSL/cable line. You'll also need to select
items which can run from 5VDC or 12VDC.

I know the real killers are tumble driers, cookers, washing machines etc as
regards electricity consumption.

Washing machines aren't, unless you do frequent hot washes (which
you shouldn't be). Tumble driers and electric hobs can be.

Basically I'm looking for any other ideas to reduce our consumption based on
the info I have given.

All of the low consumption items take little power individually but added
together and viewed over 12 months powered up time, savings with possible
power unit conversion could be worth while.

BTW I have loads of redundant SMPS units to use so no capital outlay.

They may not necessarily be particularly efficient.

Time to get out my AC current meter and calculate just what each is costing
us - then add it up.

Get one of the plug-in power meters. There are several around now
for less than £10. Measuring current draw alone won't tell you
much with most modern kit.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

JDT2Q wrote:
Hi group,

Today I completed the monthly on line meter readings submission for my
energy supplier and was presented with a bill for about £450 for the
past quarter.
I was amassed.

Our house is a semi dormer bungalow ( not a very big one ) in the
North West.
We have cavity wall insulation, loft insulation,

How much loft insulation? Depending on how long ago it was done your loft
could be well below current recommendations. In terms of value for money,
it's a good place to start if it needs topping up.

Tim

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:25:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Cap
wrote this:-

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house.

Thermal store. Come in, press button, radiators warm in less than a
minute. Assuming it is warmer inside then by the time one has
adjusted to inside conditions the house is being warmed.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Andy Cap posted
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:43:06 +0000, Mark
wrote:

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house. Worth considering
though, according to personal circumstances.

You can get fancy electronic (or even electromechanical) room
thermostats where you can set a temperature profile to vary during the
day.

I'm not sure how easy they are to use though. Probably not very :/

--
Les

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:25:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Cap
wrote this:-

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in
and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house.

Thermal store. Come in, press button, radiators warm in less than a
minute. Assuming it is warmer inside then by the time one has
adjusted to inside conditions the house is being warmed.

Low water content system.. push button wait 90 sec and heating is hot.
*No* thermal store used so less energy wasted.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:13:23 +0000, Big Les Wade wrote:


You can get fancy electronic (or even electromechanical) room
thermostats where you can set a temperature profile to vary during the
day.

I'm not sure how easy they are to use though. Probably not very :/

Yep. Got that. Not quite the same as turning it off though.

The problem with hi-tech solutions, is cost/savings. If you're going to be dead
before pay-back time, I'd rather spend the money on pleasurable things ! ;-)

In article ,
David Hansen writes:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:25:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Cap
wrote this:-

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house.

Thermal store. Come in, press button, radiators warm in less than a
minute. Assuming it is warmer inside then by the time one has
adjusted to inside conditions the house is being warmed.

You'll get the same with most combi's, as the heating side ends
up having to be way over-spec'ed for house in order to provide
any hot water flow.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 04 Feb 2009 12:50:28 GMT someone who may be
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote this:-

Thermal store. Come in, press button, radiators warm in less than a
minute. Assuming it is warmer inside then by the time one has
adjusted to inside conditions the house is being warmed.

You'll get the same with most combi's, as the heating side ends
up having to be way over-spec'ed for house in order to provide
any hot water flow.

Not quite as fast, but certainly a lot faster than a "traditional"
setup.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Get one of the plug-in power meters. There are several around now
for less than £10. Measuring current draw alone won't tell you
much with most modern kit.

But bear in mind that the cheap ones will probably be highly inaccurate when
measuring light loads. So they won't give realistic results for measuring
the power of things on stand by.

--
Mike Clarke

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:25:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Cap
wrote this:-

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm
in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house.

Thermal store. Come in, press button, radiators warm in less than a
minute. Assuming it is warmer inside then by the time one has
adjusted to inside conditions the house is being warmed.

Low water content system.. push button wait 90 sec and heating is hot.
*No* thermal store used so less energy wasted.

You need to understand thermal storage. A two cyl' stat thermal store does
not cycle the boiler and one long efficient burn. Large boilers on direct
rad systems are prone to excessive boiler cycling. This is very inefficient
and the controls wear down fast.

The CH can be on a Smart pump with TRVs on all rads. No central nuisance
wall thermostat.

JDT2Q wrote:

Time to get out my AC current meter and calculate just what each is costing
us - then add it up.

Any suggestions ??

Isn't it a shame we are reduced to this now, the moment we start costing
baths, showers, boiling water for coffee, flushing the loo and other
every day things the enjoyment goes out of life.

When standby first became popular it enabled us to turn TVs on without
leaving the chair, well worth paying for.

Regretfully we all will cut back dramatically but end up paying the same
(or more) and the power companies will make the same profits for
supplying less of the product.

Geoff Lane

On 4 Feb, 12:50, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
David Hansen writes:

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:25:11 +0000 someone who may be Andy Cap
wrote this:-

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house.

Thermal store. Come in, press button, radiators warm in less than a
minute. Assuming it is warmer inside then by the time one has
adjusted to inside conditions the house is being warmed.

You'll get the same with most combi's, as the heating side ends
up having to be way over-spec'ed for house in order to provide
any hot water flow.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Makes me wonder.

My combi boiler is range rated at 14kw, if I was to put it on 28kw
would the rads warm up quicker?

Andy Cap wrote:

TRVs on radiators are very effective and how you program your roomstat.

My TRVs don't seem effective at all, probably cheap ones used by builder
doing my extension a few years back.

Geoff Lane

Mark wrote:

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

Trouble is reheating a cold house can be counterproductive.

Geoff Lane

Andy Cap wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:43:06 +0000, Mark
wrote:

I always switch the CH off when I am out.

I might do that, or at least set it lower, if I wasn't retired, but I'm in and
out all day and like to come back to a relatively cosy house. Worth considering
though, according to personal circumstances.

Maybe an electric blow heater to reheat then CH to maintain temperature
could be an option.

Geoff Lane

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:39:18 +0000 someone who may be Geoff Lane
wrote this:-

Trouble is reheating a cold house can be counterproductive.

Counterproductive?

Certainly some types of construction react slowly to heat input. The
two extremes are an underground building or castle and a hut.
Different heating systems are best in these types of building.
However, most houses are somewhere between these extremes.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Geoff Lane writes:
Andy Cap wrote:

TRVs on radiators are very effective and how you program your roomstat.

My TRVs don't seem effective at all, probably cheap ones used by builder
doing my extension a few years back.

In what way do they seem ineffective?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:13:23 +0000, Big Les Wade
wrote:


You can get fancy electronic (or even electromechanical) room
thermostats where you can set a temperature profile to vary during the
day.

I'm not sure how easy they are to use though. Probably not very :/

About £50 ISTR. Dead easy to use if you can program a video recorder.
especially useful if you're (semi) retired like me as you can
gradually work downwards half a degree (or finer) at a time until you
find a comfortable setting, and it has manual override available at
any time. Mine has 5 timer periods per day: wouldn't be without it
now.

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:38:10 +0000, Geoff Lane
wrote:

My TRVs don't seem effective at all, probably cheap ones used by builder
doing my extension a few years back.

Geoff Lane

Mine definitely make a real difference. The bedrooms and landing, I keep on 2
and they are just cool, but never feel cold or damp. The bathroom is on 5 and is
toasty. The downstairs hall hasn't got one and as you come down the stairs, you
can feel the difference and the lounge is also set to 5.

What I do is occasionally turn them all up and down rapidly. I don't know if it
makes any difference, but I *think* is might just stop them sticking and frees
any crap that might have become trapped in the restricted valve space.

Anyhow, I'm convinced they have been very worthwhile addtion.

Andy C

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:49:14 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:



How much loft insulation? Depending on how long ago it was done your loft
could be well below current recommendations. In terms of value for money,
it's a good place to start if it needs topping up.
My thought exactly: a day too late tho - great time to see how long
the snow stays on your roof and to find "hotspots". Almost all the
dormer bungalows around here lost their snow WAY before
'regular-roofed' houses, and the benefit of my recently increased loft
insulation was readily apparent. May well be that the insulation in
the OPs 'roof' isn't very effective at all - nowhere near current
standards.

If you have flat rooves built a while ago (in the 70's in my case)
you'll have an inch of fibreglass and that's it. That's costing me
£100 a year at least I reckon. I have 50m2 of ground floor extension
like that - it'll cost me a well over a grand to back-fill with
Celotex/reboard & plaster so it's not quite worth it yet.

Oh, and tumble driers: absolute energy oigs. If you have Economy 7
make sure you run them overnight. I have an 'A' rated drier which
dries with cold air - takes 4x as long but uses 1/3rd the energy. I
run that overnight on economy 7.

Our dishwasher and washing machine use hot water from the combi boiler
on short pipe runs (WM is right next to the boiler) and so don't use
(peak rate) electricity to heat their water.

Kettles: only boil what you need; keep lids on when you boil veg.
rinse hand-wash dishes in cold water after a swill in a bowl of hot,
not under running hot water. Do a lot of hand washing up at once:
start with the cleanest things (glasses, cutting boards, cups) then
move gradually to the dirtier things, even at the end of the wash the
water should be warm enought to deal with grease in frying pans and
roasting trays.

Don't heat the whole damn oven to cook a couple of silly burgers just
because the instuctions say you can. Fry them or buy something that
isn't so wasteful on energy. Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of
the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with veg.


However, in my experience the biggest consumer of energy in the whole
house is the wife. While I wear two shirts, a sweater and two pairs
of socks, she wants to swan around in her nighty.

100mA at 240V would be 24W. You would have smoke from your bell transformer if
it was chewing up that much power. It is more likely using an eighth that much
power - 3W perhaps, costing a couple of quid a year. Your bills seem to be out
by a large factor, so forget these tiny amounts for now.

Check you are not being charged for imperial gas measurements, given a metric
meter, or your gas supply is not supplying your neighbours, or something.

-- Jason

Watch and read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/...ch_for_ga.html

Especially important is the bit at the bottom about checking your meter against
your bill.

-- JJ

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Lane writes:
Andy Cap wrote:

TRVs on radiators are very effective and how you program your roomstat.
My TRVs don't seem effective at all, probably cheap ones used by builder
doing my extension a few years back.

In what way do they seem ineffective?

On occasions it is definitely chilly and the rads feel cool until I
loosen the securing collar which actually opens the valve fully. I have
tried switching thermostats but same effect.

Anything below high setting and the rads run cool.

Geoff Lane

me here wrote:


Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of
the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with veg.

Don't taste as good though, can't beat crispy skins

Geoff Lane

"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
...
me here wrote:


Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of
the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with veg.

Don't taste as good though, can't beat crispy skins

I use a combi quick and crispy.
Most veg tastes better in the microwave, especially frozen peas.

Geoff Lane

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
...
me here wrote:


Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of
the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with veg.

Don't taste as good though, can't beat crispy skins

I use a combi quick and crispy.

Most veg tastes better in the microwave, especially frozen peas.

IMO, most veg doesn't taste better from the microwave, frozen peas and
such like are fine, but most things such as carrots and broccoli I
don't like the texture somehow. Much prefer them steamed
--
Chris French

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:34:47 +0000, Geoff Lane wrote:

Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with
veg.

Don't taste as good though, can't beat crispy skins

Cook 'em through in the microwave and crisp the skins in the oven. You'll
still use less power as the oven will only be on for 15 mins rather than
the 45 to an hour for baking spuds normally.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:13:23 +0000, Big Les Wade wrote:

You can get fancy electronic (or even electromechanical) room
thermostats where you can set a temperature profile to vary during the
day.

I'm not sure how easy they are to use though. Probably not very :/

Can be tedious rather than difficult to initially program (they do come
with a default profile though) but once set they are more or less fit and
forget. You just need to give a bit of thought to the evices programing
and your life style. Most have some form of easy manual temperature and
time adjustment from the current settings. They all vary a bit so you need
to shop about reading instruction manuals to find one that fits your
desired feature list.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Geoff Lane writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Lane writes:
Andy Cap wrote:

TRVs on radiators are very effective and how you program your roomstat.
My TRVs don't seem effective at all, probably cheap ones used by builder
doing my extension a few years back.

In what way do they seem ineffective?

On occasions it is definitely chilly and the rads feel cool until I
loosen the securing collar which actually opens the valve fully. I have
tried switching thermostats but same effect.

Anything below high setting and the rads run cool.

It may be that the valve pins are getting stuck in.
Can happen with some types as they age.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:34:47 +0000, Geoff Lane wrote:

Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with
veg.
Don't taste as good though, can't beat crispy skins

Cook 'em through in the microwave and crisp the skins in the oven. You'll
still use less power as the oven will only be on for 15 mins rather than
the 45 to an hour for baking spuds normally.


What proportion of the cost if running an oven is used in getting it up
to heat? It always seem to me that it takes one hell of a lot to get it
up to, say, 170, but from then on it only cuts in intermittently.

So what is the difference between:

Cost of heating oven to temperature plus keeping it hot for 15 mins.

and

Cost of heating oven to temperature plus keeping it hot for 45 mins.

(I'd still guess that the pre-cook in microwave would be cheaper. But
possibly by quite a small margin. I certainly find our microwave itself
gets quite warm in cooking potatoes for a few minutes.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article ,
me here writes:
Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of
the enrgy (IIRC)

Remember to not eat the skins if you only microwaved them.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]