Terry Fields wrote:
Rod wrote:

Wherever the heat in the microwave comes from (food, steam, absorbed
microwaves, power supply inefficiency, etc.), it costs in terms of
electric power input. What we want, at the end of cooking, is a hot
potato and a cold oven. Shame we haven't managed that yet!

Oh yes we have!....it was used in WWII and was known as a 'Victory
Cooker'.

The casserole was brought up to cooking temperature, then placed in a
cardboard box stuffed with straw and covered over. Forty-five minutes
later, the hot, cooked dish was served and eaten.

I cook rice in a very similar fashion, by bringing the water to the
boil, adding the rice, and turning the heat off. Eleven minutes
later...perfect rice. I can give the exact method if anyone is
interested.

Perhaps we should look backwards in time for energy-saving techniques!

Indeed. An aga has zero opportunity cost for cooking. As has any range
type stove with a hot plate.


Another good one, is to tack a metal bottle of water to your exhaust
manifold. Instant coffee when you stop.

If your hose is thermostatically controlled, and electrical waste heat
only reduces CH bills anyway If its being heated at all...

On 6 Feb 2009 12:49:49 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2009-02-05, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:03:16 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Another issue is the well-known possibility of the contents of a mug
become superheated with the potential consequences on any user who does
not take precautions.

And a side issue is that virtually all instant 'coffee' is pretty
awful to drink.

Douwe Egberts is OK. And their instant decaff is the only one I've ever
come across that tastes the same as the "full fat" version.

I can't see any point in decaffeinated coffee.

It's a bit like alcohol-free beer. (well, it isn't, BYKWIM).

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2009-02-05, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

When the reason for this came to light, all sorts of
people started claiming skin problems too.

You've obviously never seen the state of my wife's hands if she handles
some washing powders.

One family member works in a hospital, and almost certainly
due to frequently using alcohol hand wipes, she finds she
can't handle detergents anymore. She can't even go near a
decent washing up liquid and has to use one of the
eco-doesn't-actually-dissolve-any-grease ones.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:06:38 +0000, chris French wrote:

Used on of those travel kettles that plugs into the car once, took about
15 minutes to boil or something equally silly :-)

I have one and use it, sits wedged in a box in the passenger foot well,
plug it in just under 20 miles from where I want to stop. It's mug full of
water is nicely hot by the time I arrive. Draws about 10A@12v so about
120W.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Terry Fields posted
Oh yes we have!....it was used in WWII and was known as a 'Victory
Cooker'.

The casserole was brought up to cooking temperature, then placed in a
cardboard box stuffed with straw and covered over. Forty-five minutes
later, the hot, cooked dish was served and eaten.

This reminds me of a field technique that used to be taught in the Army,
called the "Maori oven". You dig a hole, line the bottom with large
stones, and cover it with firewood. Light the fire and let it burn out.
Wrap your edibles - typically gutted rabbit or deer - in clay and dump
them on the hot stones. Cover in the pit with more stones, or earth and
sand if necessary. Wait two hours and the rabbits are perfectly cooked.

You can use petrol if there's no wood

I cook rice in a very similar fashion, by bringing the water to the
boil, adding the rice, and turning the heat off. Eleven minutes
later...perfect rice. I can give the exact method if anyone is
interested.

The same method appears in Ken Hom's chinese cookbook.

Perhaps we should look backwards in time for energy-saving techniques!

--
Les

In message , Big Les Wade
writes
Terry Fields posted
I cook rice in a very similar fashion, by bringing the water to the
boil, adding the rice, and turning the heat off. Eleven minutes
later...perfect rice. I can give the exact method if anyone is
interested.

The same method appears in Ken Hom's chinese cookbook.


i've tried all the methods around of cooking rice, but none give as
consistently good results as our rice cooker.

I was sceptical about it's usefulness, but it's great
--
Chris French

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2009-02-05, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

When the reason for this came to light, all sorts of
people started claiming skin problems too.
You've obviously never seen the state of my wife's hands if she handles
some washing powders.

One family member works in a hospital, and almost certainly
due to frequently using alcohol hand wipes, she finds she
can't handle detergents anymore. She can't even go near a
decent washing up liquid and has to use one of the
eco-doesn't-actually-dissolve-any-grease ones.


Which alcohol? Ethanol or isopropanol?

I fell across an article the other day blaming erythromelalgia on
isopropanol (IIRC, in a carpet cleaning product).

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article ,
Rod writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
One family member works in a hospital, and almost certainly
due to frequently using alcohol hand wipes, she finds she
can't handle detergents anymore. She can't even go near a
decent washing up liquid and has to use one of the
eco-doesn't-actually-dissolve-any-grease ones.

Which alcohol? Ethanol or isopropanol?

I fell across an article the other day blaming erythromelalgia on
isopropanol (IIRC, in a carpet cleaning product).

Whatever is on the NHS alcohol hand wipes (I don't know).

If you have a pointer to the article, that would be interesting.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Rod writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
One family member works in a hospital, and almost certainly
due to frequently using alcohol hand wipes, she finds she
can't handle detergents anymore. She can't even go near a
decent washing up liquid and has to use one of the
eco-doesn't-actually-dissolve-any-grease ones.
Which alcohol? Ethanol or isopropanol?

I fell across an article the other day blaming erythromelalgia on
isopropanol (IIRC, in a carpet cleaning product).

Whatever is on the NHS alcohol hand wipes (I don't know).

If you have a pointer to the article, that would be interesting.


Thought that before I posted - but initially couldn't find it. But
slight change in search terms and voila!

Vet Hum Toxicol. 2004 Feb;46(1):24-5.

Acute neuropathy and erythromelalgia following topical exposure to
isopropanol.
Rajabally YA, Mortimer NJ.

Department of Neurology, University Hospitals of Leicester, Royal
Infirmary, Leicester, United Kingdom.

Adverse effects resulting from topical exposure to isopropanol appears
exceptional in adults with intact skin. We describe the case of a young
woman who developed an acute sensori-motor axonal polyneuropathy after
walking bare-feet for several hours on carpets soaked by a disinfectant
containing isopropanolol. The persistence and severity of symptoms
raised the possibility of her neuropathy being partly related to
immunizations she received 1 mo earlier. The occurrence shortly after
contact, however, strongly suggested responsibility of the dermal
isopropanol exposure. This case being, to our knowledge, the second
reported, peripheral nerve toxicity appears possible in adults on
prolonged topical exposure, probably in susceptible individuals.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14748412

Erythromelalgia is usually regarded as a rare skin/vascular problem
(around 32.5 to 10 in a million). Alcohol consumption (ethanol) is often
a problem for sufferers.

http://www.erythromelalgia.org/tea/skins/cms/index.php

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:03:16 +0000 Rod wrote :
Another issue is the well-known possibility of the contents of
a mug become superheated with the potential consequences on
any user who does not take precautions. (Of course, much less
likely to be a real problem when done by someone familiar with
the oven.)

If you're familiar with your microwave you set the time so as to
deliver at drinking temperature. More energy efficient than
leaving a kettle to boil and waiting for your black coffee to
cool down

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

Frank Erskine wrote:

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:27:16 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

One beefburger 1130W

They're using Watts now, rather than kcals?

:-)

--
Frank Erskine

Open box. Prick packaging and stand well clear .
My dad told me they were issued with self-heating tins of food after
the D day landings. Always curious how they worked.

In article ,
writes:

Open box. Prick packaging and stand well clear .
My dad told me they were issued with self-heating tins of food after
the D day landings. Always curious how they worked.

Reminds me of the Anthony Worrell Thompson sausages,
complete with a picture of the chef, with the caption
"prick with a fork".

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 06 Feb 2009 13:04:38 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2009-02-05, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

When the reason for this came to light, all sorts of
people started claiming skin problems too.

You've obviously never seen the state of my wife's hands if she handles
some washing powders.

One family member works in a hospital, and almost certainly
due to frequently using alcohol hand wipes, she finds she
can't handle detergents anymore. She can't even go near a
decent washing up liquid and has to use one of the
eco-doesn't-actually-dissolve-any-grease ones.

Sensitivity to alcohol wipes is more common than many think and often
ignored by administrators and infection control specialists. I have a
family member working in a hospital who has problems with the alcohol
hand wipes but in this case they cause eczema. She's stopped using
them and now only uses soap, massively less convenient when treating
patients but she really has no other option.


--

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On 06 Feb 2009 13:04:38 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2009-02-05, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

When the reason for this came to light, all sorts of
people started claiming skin problems too.

You've obviously never seen the state of my wife's hands if she handles
some washing powders.

One family member works in a hospital, and almost certainly
due to frequently using alcohol hand wipes, she finds she
can't handle detergents anymore. She can't even go near a
decent washing up liquid and has to use one of the
eco-doesn't-actually-dissolve-any-grease ones.

Sensitivity to alcohol wipes is more common than many think and often
ignored by administrators and infection control specialists. I have a
family member working in a hospital who has problems with the alcohol
hand wipes but in this case they cause eczema. She's stopped using
them and now only uses soap, massively less convenient when treating
patients but she really has no other option.

I'm impressed that s/he actually treats patients instead of canting to other
staff about holidays etc.
I firmly believe that nursing is now just a job/when can I get out of
here/roll on end of shift.
My 93 year old Mom is currently in an assessment ward to see what she needs
when she comes home.
She can't go to the loo - i'll get some orange juice - orange juice never
materialises.
She needs some tissues - i'll get her some - never appears etc etc etc.
And when you tell a nurse that she needs to use the loo, looks could kill.
You daren't complain for fear of even worse/less treatment.
rant over

In message , Huge
writes
On 2009-02-05, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
PeterC writes:
On 5 Feb 2009 09:40:56 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2009-02-05, Clot wrote:

Why oh why can she not understand that closing doors between rooms
conserves
the heat?

It's a woman thing. The same principle that turning the thermostat up makes
the house warm up faster.

When we had a centrally controlled heating system installed at work, the
works Engineer was worried about the women in the stores as they were
always moaning about the temperature being high or low and weren't allowed
to alter the 'stat. I advised him to leave the 'stat there and tell the
women that although there was central control there was some control on the
'stat and that they may use it.
They seemed quite happy with the arrangement.

A bit like the pedestrian crossing buttons on traffic lights in New York.
They disconnected them all ~30 years ago to stop pedestrians screwing up
the traffic light sequencing, but there was an outcry when they installed
some new lights with no buttons. So they fit [disconnected] new buttons
on all new installations now.

I first came across this phenomenon about 25 years ago, when I was doing
process control for KP. We converted crisp weighing machines from manual
controls to computerised. The operators didn't realise that the controls
on the machines were disconnected, and continued to use them, remaining
utterly convinced that they still worked. We didn't shatter their illusions,
since it kept them happy...

Ah - but they were all nuts


--
geoff

wrote:

My dad told me they were issued with self-heating tins of food after
the D day landings. Always curious how they worked.

The tins had a pull-tab (IIRC) on the lid, which when activated
started a small pyrotechnic charge in a tube that ran through the
centre of the tin. It took about five minutes to burn through to the
bottom, leaving a nice hot meal.

I understand the Army are now going over to two types of
boil-in-the-bag meals...halal and vegetarian.

wrote:

To test a new design, I'd been going round the house earlier today
making a truepower consumption list. The 30 year old Sharp '600W'
microwave running empty ... 1106W (pf 0.96). One beefburger 1130W (pf
0.95). One mug of water, the same.

How does the kettle perform with the beefburger?

Daniele

In article , "Terry Fields"
wrote:

wrote:

My dad told me they were issued with self-heating tins of food after
the D day landings. Always curious how they worked.

The tins had a pull-tab (IIRC) on the lid, which when activated
started a small pyrotechnic charge in a tube that ran through the
centre of the tin. It took about five minutes to burn through to the
bottom, leaving a nice hot meal.

Some I've used had a piercing pin that punctured a membrane between
water and quicklime (AFAICR) in a tin that surrounded a smaller inner
tin containing the food. Worked extremly well but limited choice of
contents.

Found it - http://www.hotcan.com/

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

John Weston wrote:

In article , "Terry Fields"
wrote:

wrote:

My dad told me they were issued with self-heating tins of food after
the D day landings. Always curious how they worked.

The tins had a pull-tab (IIRC) on the lid, which when activated
started a small pyrotechnic charge in a tube that ran through the
centre of the tin. It took about five minutes to burn through to the
bottom, leaving a nice hot meal.

Some I've used had a piercing pin that punctured a membrane between
water and quicklime (AFAICR) in a tin that surrounded a smaller inner
tin containing the food. Worked extremly well but limited choice of
contents.

Found it - http://www.hotcan.com/

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

Thanks!. Sounds like the technology aligns with the period .
(He'd mentioned something about sticking a bayonet in to start 'em
off.)

Terry Fields wrote:

wrote:

My dad told me they were issued with self-heating tins of food after
the D day landings. Always curious how they worked.

The tins had a pull-tab (IIRC) on the lid, which when activated
started a small pyrotechnic charge in a tube that ran through the
centre of the tin. It took about five minutes to burn through to the
bottom, leaving a nice hot meal.

I understand the Army are now going over to two types of
boil-in-the-bag meals...halal and vegetarian.

Interesting.
Wot, no British beef then?. Jeez, I want 'ard men in my army, not god
fearing wusses

wrote in message
...

Thanks!. Sounds like the technology aligns with the period .
(He'd mentioned something about sticking a bayonet in to start 'em
off.)


They don't like it up em.

Harry Stottle wrote:
wrote in message
...

Thanks!. Sounds like the technology aligns with the period .
(He'd mentioned something about sticking a bayonet in to start 'em
off.)


They don't like it up em.

Don't panic.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:10:27 +0000, Rod wrote:

Cost of heating oven to temperature plus keeping it hot for (45 mins.
less the time taking for it to get to temperature).

Well I was measureing the temp of our oven the other week. The duty cycle
once up to temp was roughly 1 on, 2 off and the set point didn't make a
great deal of difference (unless you changed it...).

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:17:08 +0000, Terry Fields wrote:

I cook rice in a very similar fashion, by bringing the water to the
boil, adding the rice, and turning the heat off. Eleven minutes
later...perfect rice. I can give the exact method if anyone is
interested.

SImilar method here, 1 part rice 2 parts water by volume plus a splash
more water into a pan, bring to just boiling turn off the heat and wait 10
mins for cooked rice. This on a solid hotplate 'lectric cooker not so sure
it would work quite so well on a gas ring. The solid hot plate stores a
fair bit of heat.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:10:27 +0000, Rod wrote:

Cost of heating oven to temperature plus keeping it hot for (45 mins.
less the time taking for it to get to temperature).

Well I was measureing the temp of our oven the other week. The duty cycle
once up to temp was roughly 1 on, 2 off and the set point didn't make a
great deal of difference (unless you changed it...).


Thanks for that.

So putting a bit more Celotex round it might help?

(*NOT* serious - but I wish that the oven were less expensive to run.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:06:38 +0000, chris French
wrote:

In message , PeterC
writes
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:53:10 GMT, wrote:

On 5 Feb,
"Clot" wrote:


Thanks. A sobering surprise. Kettle/ Micro - ballpark the same for a single
cup of coffee, Cuppa Soup or similar.

I did a test with my electric kettle v my gas kettle on the hob a few years
back. Both came in at the same figure for costs, based on the meter readings.
I was surprised. I didn't think the gas heated kettle would be so
inefficient.

The electric heater is immersed in the water an so all of the heat is used;
with gas, a lot of the heat goes up the sides.

A small electric element in a kettle is wasteful, as heat is lost as soon
as the outside of the kettle is above room temperature - taken to an
extreme, something like a 50W element might never boil the water. Often low
power wastes energy.

Used on of those travel kettles that plugs into the car once, took about
15 minutes to boil or something equally silly :-)

I had a mains kettle that would "work" with the 2A limited supply we
had at uni. It never boiled the water.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

On 05 Feb 2009 10:28:38 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Cap writes:
On 04 Feb 2009 22:17:52 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:


Anything below high setting and the rads run cool.

It may be that the valve pins are getting stuck in.
Can happen with some types as they age.

I'm no CH expert but I don't get this issue.

Surely the whole point of the TRV is to restrict the flow, so that less water
flows and the radiator emit less heat !

The suggestion that the radiator attain the same high temperature would surely
infer some timing factor, rather than a temperature regulation or am I seriously
missing the point ?

It seems to be a common misconception that the TRV sets the radiator
temperature. It doesn't - it sets the room temperature. The radiator
temperature is likely to swing all over the place in its effort to
maintain the room temperature, particularly given that the hot supply
to the radiator is likely to be cycling on and off from the boiler too.

However the closeness of the TRV to the radiator has often make me
suspect that they may shut off the rad before the room has reached the
selected temperature.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

Mark wrote:
On 05 Feb 2009 10:28:38 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Cap writes:
On 04 Feb 2009 22:17:52 GMT, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:


Anything below high setting and the rads run cool.
It may be that the valve pins are getting stuck in.
Can happen with some types as they age.
I'm no CH expert but I don't get this issue.

Surely the whole point of the TRV is to restrict the flow, so that less water
flows and the radiator emit less heat !

The suggestion that the radiator attain the same high temperature would surely
infer some timing factor, rather than a temperature regulation or am I seriously
missing the point ?
It seems to be a common misconception that the TRV sets the radiator
temperature. It doesn't - it sets the room temperature. The radiator
temperature is likely to swing all over the place in its effort to
maintain the room temperature, particularly given that the hot supply
to the radiator is likely to be cycling on and off from the boiler too.

However the closeness of the TRV to the radiator has often make me
suspect that they may shut off the rad before the room has reached the
selected temperature.

The best you can say about a TRV is that it is better than nothing. Abd
its relatively cheap.

Accurate it aint..

"Mark" wrote in message
...

However the closeness of the TRV to the radiator has often make me
suspect that they may shut off the rad before the room has reached the
selected temperature.

How can that happen?
You turn the valves up a bit at a time until you get the temp right.
It may be 3 it may be 4.1 but it works.

You don't just say I will set it at 70F and dial in 3.1

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:17:08 +0000, Terry Fields wrote:

I cook rice in a very similar fashion, by bringing the water to the
boil, adding the rice, and turning the heat off. Eleven minutes
later...perfect rice. I can give the exact method if anyone is
interested.

SImilar method here, 1 part rice 2 parts water by volume plus a splash
more water into a pan, bring to just boiling turn off the heat and wait 10
mins for cooked rice. This on a solid hotplate 'lectric cooker not so sure
it would work quite so well on a gas ring. The solid hot plate stores a
fair bit of heat.

I use between 90g (smallish portions for two) and 120g (large-ish
portions for two) of rice.

Bring 500ml water (and perhaps a bay leaf or portion of peas) to boil
in a largish saucepan. When boiling, add the rice and stir through two
revs only. Place lid on saucepan and turn off heat.

After 11 minutes, tip rice into a strainer that fits on top of the
saucepan, place strainer on saucepan, cover with lid and let drain for
2 minutes. Remove bay leaf and serve.

Note: Don't wash the rice, this method is aimed at dislodging the
minimum amount of surface starch (which makes the rice stick together,
hence the limited amount of stirring).

Have used this on a ceramic hob cooker (which holds the heat) and an
old-fashioned 'ring' which didn't. Seemed to work fine for both.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:29:02 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Mark" wrote in message
.. .

However the closeness of the TRV to the radiator has often make me
suspect that they may shut off the rad before the room has reached the
selected temperature.

How can that happen?
You turn the valves up a bit at a time until you get the temp right.
It may be 3 it may be 4.1 but it works.

You don't just say I will set it at 70F and dial in 3.1

I was thinking on the lines that the area around the rad will be
warmer than the average room temperature. That, and with possible
conduction from the pipes, causes the TRV to shut off while the room
is colder. This could lead to a cycling on/off until the room is
eventually hot enough to keep the TRV off. Adjusting the TRV won't
help this.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

Mark wrote:

On 05 Feb 2009 10:28:38 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

It seems to be a common misconception that the TRV sets the radiator
temperature. It doesn't - it sets the room temperature. The radiator
temperature is likely to swing all over the place in its effort to
maintain the room temperature, particularly given that the hot supply
to the radiator is likely to be cycling on and off from the boiler too.

However the closeness of the TRV to the radiator has often make me
suspect that they may shut off the rad before the room has reached the
selected temperature.

In the last cold snap I tired an experiment, in that I put a 6" desk
fan running at its lowest speed under the 800 x 600 double radiator in
the lounge, in an open-plan sixties design house.

The result was astonishing. In ten minutes, the thermometer at the
other end of the lounge showed an increase of 1 degC (21.5 to
22.5degC), the temperature felt far more even across the lounge, and
the TRV ran the system exactly: a setting of '4' gives the calibrated
21 degC, '5' gives 24 degC, and the interpolation is also correct:
'4.5' gives 22.5 degC.

The TRV is out of the direct air stream, and the lounge is noticeably
more comfortable (but not necessarily warmer).

On Feb 4, 9:42*pm, chris French
wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writes



"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
...
me here wrote:

*Bake taters in the microwave: uses 25% of
the enrgy (IIRC) ditto with veg.

Don't taste as good though, can't beat crispy skins

I use a combi quick and crispy.
Most veg tastes better in the microwave, especially frozen peas.

IMO, most veg doesn't taste better from the microwave, frozen peas and
such like are fine, *but most things such as carrots and *broccoli I
don't like the texture somehow. Much prefer them steamed

That's effectively how you cook them in the microwave if you do it
properly. No more than a tablespoon or two of water.

MBQ