Hello,

You may remember me posting about my oil fired boiler. The plumber has
just left. When removing the side panels he small a small amount of
smoke escaping and thinks the weld that joins the bottom and side of
the boiler has failed and that the only action is to replace the
boiler.

So, I've never shopped for a new boiler before, can anyone give me and
hints or tips? What makes to shop for and which to avoid etc? If
possible I would like to try and DIY the install and have someone
check and commission it. I figure that might half the cost that way.

I wondered about a wall mounted one to free some room but does this
make it awkward to reach to service? How do you lift the damn things
anyway? I thought they weighed 100kg.

What about external ones? Are they any good? I would be worried about
freezing.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Hello again,

I forgot to ask, where can I find the regulations relating to oil
fired boilers? Would it be the on site guide that gets mentioned here
a lot or somewhere else?

Thanks.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:00:32 GMT, Stephen wrote:

I forgot to ask, where can I find the regulations relating to oil
fired boilers? Would it be the on site guide that gets mentioned here
a lot or somewhere else?

Have a dig about on the OFTEC site: http://www.oftec.co.uk

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 5 Aug, 16:00, Stephen
wrote:
Hello again,

I forgot to ask, where can I find the regulations relating to oil
fired boilers? Would it be the on site guide that gets mentioned here
a lot or somewhere else?

Thanks.

Look up the OFTEC website.

On 5 Aug, 15:43, Stephen
wrote:
Hello,

You may remember me posting about my oil fired boiler. The plumber has
just left. When removing the side panels he small a small amount of
smoke escaping and thinks the weld that joins the bottom and side of
the boiler has failed and that the only action is to replace the
boiler.

I've never yet found that failure mode!
Does the burner flange need a new seal or a wipe of fire cement?


So, I've never shopped for a new boiler before, can anyone give me and
hints or tips? What makes to shop for and which to avoid etc? If
possible I would like to try and DIY the install and have someone
check and commission it. I figure that might half the cost that way.

Try Firebird boilers, Boulter boilers, Trianco boilers They are all
very much the same.
Riello (RBL) make bloody good burners so if you have the option of a
model of burner to choose on the boiler I suggest you opt for one of
their range


I wondered about a wall mounted one to free some room but does this
make it awkward to reach to service? How do you lift the damn things
anyway? I thought they weighed 100kg.

Not as heavy as that for the wall mounted ones that are available but
they are heavy nonetheless. Generaly the wall mounted ones are not as
good to work on or service.

What about external ones? Are they any good? I would be worried about
freezing.

They have freeze protection as long as fuel and electricity supplies
remain on.
The big problem is what hapens in winter when you want some work
carried out. Before retiring I would never go to work on one in the
winter or if it was raining. If you chose this range expect to have to
learn how to work on it yourself in the rain or ice and snow.
They are the misbegotten spawn of the devil!

..

"cynic" wrote in message
...
On 5 Aug, 15:43, Stephen
wrote:
Hello,

You may remember me posting about my oil fired boiler. The plumber has
just left. When removing the side panels he small a small amount of
smoke escaping and thinks the weld that joins the bottom and side of
the boiler has failed and that the only action is to replace the
boiler.

I've never yet found that failure mode!
Does the burner flange need a new seal or a wipe of fire cement?


So, I've never shopped for a new boiler before, can anyone give me and
hints or tips? What makes to shop for and which to avoid etc? If
possible I would like to try and DIY the install and have someone
check and commission it. I figure that might half the cost that way.

Try Firebird boilers, Boulter boilers, Trianco boilers They are all
very much the same.
Riello (RBL) make bloody good burners so if you have the option of a
model of burner to choose on the boiler I suggest you opt for one of
their range


I wondered about a wall mounted one to free some room but does this
make it awkward to reach to service? How do you lift the damn things
anyway? I thought they weighed 100kg.

Not as heavy as that for the wall mounted ones that are available but
they are heavy nonetheless. Generaly the wall mounted ones are not as
good to work on or service.

What about external ones? Are they any good? I would be worried about
freezing.

They have freeze protection as long as fuel and electricity supplies
remain on.
The big problem is what hapens in winter when you want some work
carried out. Before retiring I would never go to work on one in the
winter or if it was raining. If you chose this range expect to have to
learn how to work on it yourself in the rain or ice and snow.
They are the misbegotten spawn of the devil!

.
I have a Warmflow external boiler and it is fine no noise or smell and have
neighbours with Grant outdoor boilers outside his holiday cottages Mine
came complete with flue on the box, they have a frost stat , work fine

"Leveled" wrote in message
...

Before retiring I would never go to work on one in the
winter or if it was raining. If you chose this range expect to have to
learn how to work on it yourself in the rain or ice and snow.
They are the misbegotten spawn of the devil!
.
I have a Warmflow external boiler and it is fine no noise or smell and
have neighbours with Grant outdoor boilers outside his holiday cottages
Mine came complete with flue on the box, they have a frost stat , work
fine

Outdoor boilers are a great idea, Keep the stuff out of the house. Fitting
an external oil combi is a great idea - all outside. The only outdoor gas
appliance is the Rinnai water heater. The Italians make an externally
fitted gas boiler, but not available here. An externally mounted gas combi
would sell like hot cakes.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT), cynic
wrote:

I've never yet found that failure mode!
Does the burner flange need a new seal or a wipe of fire cement?

I'm not quite sure what a boiler flange is. There is a hole (an
intentional one) on the front of the boiler that the blast tube,
nozzle, etc fit to. Is that the flange? If so, there did not seem to
be any smoke coming from there. The smoke definitely came from the
side at floor level.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:38:18 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Have a dig about on the OFTEC site: http://www.oftec.co.uk

I have had a look but some of it is password protected. I think that
connecting the HW and CH is within my DIY capabilities; it's only
compression joints after all but I need to know regulations about
where I can and cannot put it. The plumber told me that I cannot have
a flue straight through the wall because it is too near a door. I
never knew that. So I need to learn more about flues and what I can
have and where.

I was also told that if I had a condensing boiler I would have to line
the flue, which would be expensive, so I should look for a
non-condensing boiler but I thought all new boilers were condensing? I
was told a non-condensing would be just as efficient, but if so, why
do people bother making condensing ones?

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:00:07 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Outdoor boilers are a great idea, Keep the stuff out of the house. Fitting
an external oil combi is a great idea - all outside.

Making space in the kitchen is a definite plus point but OTOH I'm
still concerned about an external one on a cold day during a power
cut, wouldn't it freeze then? And I had not appreciated what others
have said about it being uncomfortable to work on in winter weather.

I do not have a combi. I have a HW cylinder. Perhaps combis are better
that you only heat what you need. I doubt we use a cylinder a day.
What advantages are there to having cylinders: better flow rate and
the ability to connect a shower?

Thanks,
Stephen.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:00:07 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Outdoor boilers are a great idea, Keep the stuff out of the house.
Fitting
an external oil combi is a great idea - all outside.

Making space in the kitchen is a definite plus point but OTOH I'm
still concerned about an external one on a cold day during a power
cut, wouldn't it freeze then? And I had not appreciated what others
have said about it being uncomfortable to work on in winter weather.

I do not have a combi. I have a HW cylinder. Perhaps combis are better
that you only heat what you need. I doubt we use a cylinder a day.
What advantages are there to having cylinders: better flow rate and
the ability to connect a shower?

Thanks,
Stephen.

You can get anti-freeze for the system but we never have, the box and pipes
are insulated: and I hope we don't get long power cuts, it depends where you
live we didn't have a frost to freeze pipes last year or this

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog...ntifreeze.html

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:26:19 +0100, "Leveled" wrote:

You can get anti-freeze for the system but we never have, the box and pipes
are insulated: and I hope we don't get long power cuts, it depends where you
live we didn't have a frost to freeze pipes last year or this

I guess I was being paranoid. Like you say, we rarely have frost or
power cuts, especially at the same time.

Sorry if this is a silly question: what is the difference between a
kitchen or utility boiler?

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:
Sorry if this is a silly question: what is the difference between a
kitchen or utility boiler?

Thanks,
Stephen.
generally the latter are ugly, and possibly caseless.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:38:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Sorry if this is a silly question: what is the difference between a
kitchen or utility boiler?

generally the latter are ugly, and possibly caseless.

In the case of ours it means the kitchen one is white the utility black.
No other difference.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:38:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

what is the difference between a
kitchen or utility boiler?

generally the latter are ugly,

Thanks. I thought it was just cosmetic but wanted to be sure. If
anyone can give me pointers whether to get condensing or
non-condensing and any hints or tips about what make/model, I would be
grateful. The old one was 70,000BTU = I think 21kW?

Thanks.

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:56:31 -0700 (PDT), cynic
wrote:


Try Firebird boilers, Boulter boilers, Trianco boilers They are all
very much the same.
Riello (RBL) make bloody good burners so if you have the option of a
model of burner to choose on the boiler I suggest you opt for one of
their range

Hello again,

I was looking at BHL.co.uk (are they any good; can you recommend
anyone else?) and they sell Grant Vortex boilers - I had never heard
of them - but the literature says they have Riello burners, so is that
the one to go for?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:08:28 GMT, Stephen
wrote:

Grant Vortex boilers - I had never heard
of them - but the literature says they have Riello burners

Sorry to add to my own post but I have found the Worcester Bosch
Greenstar Camray also has Reillo burners. From the various
manufacturers' web sites I have not learned much. They also seem to
sell white boxes with four 22mm connections. How do I choose between
them? Just look for the cheapest or the one with the highest
efficiency percentage?

Am I right to think I should not "upgrade" to a higher powered boiler?
Would this be inefficient because it would lead to cycling?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:30:19 GMT, Stephen
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:08:28 GMT, Stephen
wrote:

Grant Vortex boilers - I had never heard
of them - but the literature says they have Riello burners


Sorry to keep posting to myself. Just to say that although I had not
heard of Grant - it's hardly surprising because I haven't needed to
shop for a boiler before - they seem to top the sedbuk tables. Does
this mean it's the one to buy? Any reliability problems?

The Worcester comes a close second at 94% versus 95%.

They say the condensate drain must be connected by 22mm plastic. Is
this the same stuff that you use for overflows on the header tanks?
Screwfix lists it as 21.5mm; have the boiler manufacturers just
rounded it up? How do you connect this to a standard 40mm drain: a
tundish?

Last question (for tonight): regarding flues are balanced flues best
or doesn't flue type make a difference? I see that there are vertical
and horizontal flues; I think I can figure what they mean

But I am unsure about high level and low level; what's that all about?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:14:37 GMT, Stephen
wrote:

The Worcester comes a close second at 94% versus 95%.

Sorry, the Worcester 18/25 model is actually 93% compared to the
Grant's 95%, I was looking at the wrong Worcs. model before.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:00:07 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Outdoor boilers are a great idea, Keep the stuff out of the house.
Fitting
an external oil combi is a great idea - all outside.

Making space in the kitchen is a definite plus point but OTOH I'm
still concerned about an external one on a cold day during a power
cut, wouldn't it freeze then? And I had not appreciated what others
have said about it being uncomfortable to work on in winter weather.

I do not have a combi. I have a HW cylinder. Perhaps combis are better
that you only heat what you need. I doubt we use a cylinder a day.
What advantages are there to having cylinders: better flow rate and
the ability to connect a shower?

Oil combis tend to have higher flow rates than gas combis for the equiv kW.
They hold more hot water in the water jacket and this is used as a thermal
store for the instant DHW side giving higher flowrates. Many hold 30 to 50
litres of hot water.

You have mains pressure showers. Most will fill a bath quickly enough too.
If the DHW side fits the bill get an external oil combi. As I say, all is
outside in an insulated box. The way to go. No smell, no nosie, "safer" and
more space.

I have seen the odd small insulated boxes or "sheds" with gas combis in and
the pipes to the house via 110mm drain pipes filled with insulation.

Many servicemen like the external boilers as they don't have to worry about
making a mess inside a house.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:00:07 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Outdoor boilers are a great idea, Keep the stuff out of the house.
Fitting
an external oil combi is a great idea - all outside.

Excellent information. So, an inside boiler it is.

Please fit and external combi inside. Please fit one with a flue in your
bedroom. You get a hit from that.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:30:19 GMT, Stephen
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:08:28 GMT, Stephen
wrote:

Grant Vortex boilers - I had never heard
of them - but the literature says they have Riello burners


Sorry to keep posting to myself. Just to say that although I had not
heard of Grant - it's hardly surprising because I haven't needed to
shop for a boiler before - they seem to top the sedbuk tables. Does
this mean it's the one to buy? Any reliability problems?

The Worcester comes a close second at 94% versus 95%.

They say the condensate drain must be connected by 22mm plastic. Is
this the same stuff that you use for overflows on the header tanks?

yes.

Screwfix lists it as 21.5mm; have the boiler manufacturers just
rounded it up? How do you connect this to a standard 40mm drain: a
tundish?

No, just connect it. The makers instructions usually tells you.

Last question (for tonight): regarding flues are balanced flues best
or doesn't flue type make a difference? I see that there are vertical
and horizontal flues; I think I can figure what they mean

All are balanced. It is just the siting of the flue. Many can be extended.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:38:18 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Have a dig about on the OFTEC site: http://www.oftec.co.uk

I have had a look but some of it is password protected. I think that
connecting the HW and CH is within my DIY capabilities; it's only
compression joints after all but I need to know regulations about
where I can and cannot put it. The plumber told me that I cannot have
a flue straight through the wall because it is too near a door. I
never knew that. So I need to learn more about flues and what I can
have and where.

I was also told that if I had a condensing boiler I would have to line
the flue, which would be expensive, so I should look for a
non-condensing boiler but I thought all new boilers were condensing? I
was told a non-condensing would be just as efficient, but if so, why
do people bother making condensing ones?

Condensing boilers use less fuel. Flues are extendable - see makers blurb.

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:22:39 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Oil combis tend to have higher flow rates than gas combis for the equiv kW.
They hold more hot water in the water jacket and this is used as a thermal
store for the instant DHW side giving higher flowrates. Many hold 30 to 50
litres of hot water.

That's interesting. If plumbing a new house would you always fit a
combi? I like the idea you only heat what you need but OTOH the
advantage of the cylinder is that you can heat with the immersion,
which might be cheaper than oil if you have economy 7.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:22:39 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Oil combis tend to have higher flow rates than gas combis for the equiv
kW.
They hold more hot water in the water jacket and this is used as a thermal
store for the instant DHW side giving higher flowrates. Many hold 30 to
50
litres of hot water.

That's interesting. If plumbing a new house would you always fit a
combi? I like the idea you only heat what you need but OTOH the
advantage of the cylinder is that you can heat with the immersion,
which might be cheaper than oil if you have economy 7.

If you are mixing fuels to heat then a thermal store/heat bank is the way to
do it. You can heat the house & DHW via electricity or oil.