For years and years - probably 25 or more - I had a bog-standard B&D jigsaw.
I'm sure the older posters will remember the one. It was blue a plastic,
single speed, 'straight ahead only' job. It gave sterling service, and the
only thing I ever did to it was to renew the sleeve bearings that the up and
down bit ran in (we had a B&D shop in the town at the time, which sold spare
parts). A couple of years ago, the motor finally gave up when I was forcing
it to cut through some reinforced concrete or similarly abusive job that we
all expect our tools to cope with from time to time ( :-) ), so I thought
right, time for a new one and a bit of an upgrade !

Now remember that the old one had gone on an on. I also have an old B&D
hammer drill that handles anything from MDF to concrete lintels without
complaint, and a vertical stand to go with it, a modern B&D 1200 watt
circular saw, that I have no complaint with at all, and a B&D router that's
not the most accurate bit of kit in the world, but is adequate, and
reliable. So I had no compelling reason to change from B&D. I know that they
are by no means 'professional' quality tools, and you wouldn't trust them to
make you a living every day, but I have always found them pretty fair, with
a good price to performance ratio, and perfectly satisfactory for serious
DIY projects.

So I bought a KS638SE scroller jigsaw.

Not to put too fine a point on it, it is the biggest pile-of-**** power tool
I have ever had the misfortune to own ...

No matter what blade you've got in it, and how appropriate it is for the job
in hand, it is almost impossible to make the thing cut a straight line in
any material thicker or harder than a piece of cardboard. It is similarly
impossible to get a vertical cut through any material thicker than a quarter
inch. The scroller knob clicks up, and even flies apart, releasing its
spring, if you as much as look at it wrong. The blade anti-bend-backwards
wheel's slide mount adjustment locking screw, comes loose, allowing the
wheel to move back away from the blade, on any job that needs a cut taking
longer than about 30 seconds to complete.

This morning, I was using it to make a cut-out to accommodate pipes, in a
Contiboard shelf from inside a standard kitchen base unit. Melamine covered
chipboard about 12mm thick. Hardly a challenging material. New coarse-cut
blade in it. Had all the above problems, and what should have been a two
minute job, took about twenty. I got so mad with it that I came close to
just tossing it in the bin there and then.

So have I just been unlucky to buy what was a poor model ? Has anyone else
got one of these that they'd care to comment on ? Have B&D brought out a
better one since that anyone would care to comment on ? Or anyone got any
suggestions regarding any other makes and models that are suitable for
occasional, but 'serious' DIY work, without carrying a TTP price tag ?

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

So have I just been unlucky to buy what was a poor model ? Has anyone else
got one of these that they'd care to comment on ? Have B&D brought out a
better one since that anyone would care to comment on ? Or anyone got any
suggestions regarding any other makes and models that are suitable for
occasional, but 'serious' DIY work, without carrying a TTP price tag ?


For various reasons (none exactly my choice), two out of the past three
jigsaws I owned were B&D. (Neither the model you mention - both a bit
older.) Both absolute garbage. Wouldn't cut straight. Wouldn't hold
blades properly. Bits fell off. Noisy. Wimpy. Everything that could be
wrong was.

Last one was a Wickes £10 special. In many ways excellent. But still
doesn't cut quite straight and the blade retainer is absolute junk. (I
have temporarily bodged it while counting the pennies until I justify a
Makita 4351. Which is easy to my level of proof.)

Must haves for me now are a) variable speed; b) SDS blade fixing; c)
decent make.

Unless something changes very significantly, the logo 'B&D' is an
absolute guarantee that I will not buy something. Even more so than
Power Pro.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Arfa Daily wrote:

So have I just been unlucky to buy what was a poor model ? Has anyone else
got one of these that they'd care to comment on ? Have B&D brought out a

Par for the course I am afraid... Better "low end" ones may not fly
apart in the same way, but the inability to cut straight and true is
common.

better one since that anyone would care to comment on ? Or anyone got any
suggestions regarding any other makes and models that are suitable for
occasional, but 'serious' DIY work, without carrying a TTP price tag ?

A Jigsaw is one of those power tools where is really does pay to get a
decent one, even if all you plan to do is basic DIY - the difference
really is startling.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:

So have I just been unlucky to buy what was a poor model ? Has
anyone else got one of these that they'd care to comment on ? Have
B&D brought out a

Par for the course I am afraid... Better "low end" ones may not fly
apart in the same way, but the inability to cut straight and true is
common.

better one since that anyone would care to comment on ? Or anyone
got any suggestions regarding any other makes and models that are
suitable for occasional, but 'serious' DIY work, without carrying a
TTP price tag ?

A Jigsaw is one of those power tools where is really does pay to get a
decent one, even if all you plan to do is basic DIY - the difference
really is startling.

Yup 100% agreed. I learned that the hard way. Eventually John Rumm made me
buy the Makita :-)

"Its a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it". Eats 38mm worktop for breakfast,
square cut, easy to follow a line. Well worth the dosh.

Screwfix sell the old Makita 4340 (?) as the 'Site' brand
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/44822/...gsaw-720W-240V


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

A Jigsaw is one of those power tools where is really does pay to get a
decent one, even if all you plan to do is basic DIY - the difference
really is startling.

Yup 100% agreed. I learned that the hard way. Eventually John Rumm made me
buy the Makita :-)

Yeah, had to really twist his arm as well! ;-)

"Its a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it". Eats 38mm worktop for breakfast,
square cut, easy to follow a line. Well worth the dosh.

Screwfix sell the old Makita 4340 (?) as the 'Site' brand
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/44822/...gsaw-720W-240V

Or, even better:

https://tools4trade.com/shop_product...aspx?pid=71038


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
So have I just been unlucky to buy what was a poor model ? Has anyone
else got one of these that they'd care to comment on ? Have B&D brought
out a better one since that anyone would care to comment on ? Or anyone
got any suggestions regarding any other makes and models that are
suitable for occasional, but 'serious' DIY work, without carrying a TTP
price tag ?

As others have said you seem to really get what you pay for with jigsaws -
perhaps more so than with any other power tool.

I've got loads of oldish B&D tools which are pretty good - all from the
now discontinued Tradesman range. But these days B&D seem to be right at
the bottom of the range - worse, indeed, than the real el cheapos from the
likes of Lidl. It's sad when a once respected name trade down so far.

I can't really help with current models of jigsaw - mine is a expensive
Bosch SDS pendulum type and several years old. But I'd guess you'll have
to pay at least 100 quid to get a half decent one.

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
So have I just been unlucky to buy what was a poor model ? Has anyone
else got one of these that they'd care to comment on ? Have B&D brought
out a better one since that anyone would care to comment on ? Or anyone
got any suggestions regarding any other makes and models that are
suitable for occasional, but 'serious' DIY work, without carrying a TTP
price tag ?

As others have said you seem to really get what you pay for with jigsaws -
perhaps more so than with any other power tool.

I've got loads of oldish B&D tools which are pretty good - all from the
now discontinued Tradesman range. But these days B&D seem to be right at
the bottom of the range - worse, indeed, than the real el cheapos from the
likes of Lidl. It's sad when a once respected name trade down so far.

I can't really help with current models of jigsaw - mine is a expensive
Bosch SDS pendulum type and several years old. But I'd guess you'll have
to pay at least 100 quid to get a half decent one.

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Thanks for all the comments. It's kinda the conclusion that I had come to.
However, I have to say that the original B&D I had (the 25 year old one) was
excellent, even though it was cheap. It cut straight and square, and didn't
seem to have any problem cutting any thickness up to the maximum that the
blade could cope with. The up to date B&D circular saw that I have, is also
of a good quality, and is a faultless performer, so not all of their current
tools are rubbish. Perhaps they're just not good at jigsaws anymore ... Ya
liv 'n' lern, as they say d;~}

Arfa

On 2008-07-15 02:14:42 +0100, "Arfa Daily" said:


Thanks for all the comments. It's kinda the conclusion that I had come to.
However, I have to say that the original B&D I had (the 25 year old one) was
excellent, even though it was cheap. It cut straight and square, and didn't
seem to have any problem cutting any thickness up to the maximum that the
blade could cope with. The up to date B&D circular saw that I have, is also
of a good quality, and is a faultless performer, so not all of their current
tools are rubbish. Perhaps they're just not good at jigsaws anymore ... Ya
liv 'n' lern, as they say d;~}

Arfa

It's something where cost reducing the mechanism leads to a major drop
off in behaviour. I had a B&D one somewhat newer than your but not as
bad and had come to the conclusion that all jigsaws were limited in
terms of control and being able to follow a line. Initially I thought
it was something that I was doing and tried various things, all to no
avail.

I consigned the jig saw, generically as a fairly limited tool
restricted to doing certain rough work and so quite limited for my
applications.

Some while later, I tried a Bosch GST series at a tool show just to see
whether there was any difference with a c. £100 product. Was there.
I was amazed. I could get accurate work, excellent control and
results were really good. So I bought one.


Sometimes manufacturers do lose the plot and have a period of bringing
out ****ty tools of one type. There does seem to be a generic thing
here though. The low end jigsaws seem to range from disappointing to
down right rubbish.

So I think the conclusion is that if you do have use for a jigsaw at
all, then this is one where deciding whether you want to buy a Bosch or
Makita is justified. Otherwise don't bother and manage some other way,
unless you just want a £20 job for cutting the occasional rough hole
out of something.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:487c53c7@qaanaaq...
On 2008-07-15 02:14:42 +0100, "Arfa Daily" said:


Thanks for all the comments. It's kinda the conclusion that I had come
to.
However, I have to say that the original B&D I had (the 25 year old one)
was
excellent, even though it was cheap. It cut straight and square, and
didn't
seem to have any problem cutting any thickness up to the maximum that the
blade could cope with. The up to date B&D circular saw that I have, is
also
of a good quality, and is a faultless performer, so not all of their
current
tools are rubbish. Perhaps they're just not good at jigsaws anymore ...
Ya
liv 'n' lern, as they say d;~}

Arfa

It's something where cost reducing the mechanism leads to a major drop off
in behaviour. I had a B&D one somewhat newer than your but not as bad
and had come to the conclusion that all jigsaws were limited in terms of
control and being able to follow a line. Initially I thought it was
something that I was doing and tried various things, all to no avail.

I consigned the jig saw, generically as a fairly limited tool restricted
to doing certain rough work and so quite limited for my applications.

Some while later, I tried a Bosch GST series at a tool show just to see
whether there was any difference with a c. £100 product. Was there. I
was amazed. I could get accurate work, excellent control and results
were really good. So I bought one.


Sometimes manufacturers do lose the plot and have a period of bringing out
****ty tools of one type. There does seem to be a generic thing here
though. The low end jigsaws seem to range from disappointing to down
right rubbish.

So I think the conclusion is that if you do have use for a jigsaw at all,
then this is one where deciding whether you want to buy a Bosch or Makita
is justified. Otherwise don't bother and manage some other way, unless
you just want a £20 job for cutting the occasional rough hole out of
something.



Well, that's sort of the way I was thinking when I bought this one a couple
of years back, when the old 25 year jobby finally gasped its last. It was by
no means 'cheap', and certainly not the cheapest that B&D did at the time. I
guess that my mistake was to think that I was 'upgrading' by getting one
with extra features like the scroller. I suppose that the extra money over
the cheapo 'fixed' one that was in the range, did not cover the extra
features, so in order for B&D to match their decided price / performance
point, something had to give, and it was the basic mechanism ...

That said, I have a B&Q 12v cordless drill that cost about 20 quid, and was
bought for a specific job to use as an electric screwdriver on close to 1000
LCD TV sets that had got to be dismantled, and the speaker in them changed.
I thought that it would do that job, and be about clapped out at the end.
Eight or so years later, it is still used many times every single day as a
screwdriver, and pretty frequently as an electric drill as well, and
continues to give good service, so sometimes, cheap doesn't also mean
"nasty" ... :-)

Arfa

On 2008-07-15 10:10:30 +0100, "Arfa Daily" said:

Well, that's sort of the way I was thinking when I bought this one a couple
of years back, when the old 25 year jobby finally gasped its last. It was by
no means 'cheap', and certainly not the cheapest that B&D did at the time. I
guess that my mistake was to think that I was 'upgrading' by getting one
with extra features like the scroller. I suppose that the extra money over
the cheapo 'fixed' one that was in the range, did not cover the extra
features, so in order for B&D to match their decided price / performance
point, something had to give, and it was the basic mechanism ...


That's the irony. You can pay £50-60 and still get a crappy one.

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
However, I have to say that the original B&D I had (the 25 year old one)
was excellent, even though it was cheap. It cut straight and square,
and didn't seem to have any problem cutting any thickness up to the
maximum that the blade could cope with.

I have a B&D one from about that age lying around somewhere and the roller
guide for the blade only lasted a short while. After it had failed any
attempt at accuracy did too. The other beauty with the Bosch is not
needing that stupid little allen key to change a blade - or indeed any
tool at all.

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
However, I have to say that the original B&D I had (the 25 year old one)
was excellent, even though it was cheap. It cut straight and square,
and didn't seem to have any problem cutting any thickness up to the
maximum that the blade could cope with.

I have a B&D one from about that age lying around somewhere and the roller
guide for the blade only lasted a short while. After it had failed any
attempt at accuracy did too. The other beauty with the Bosch is not
needing that stupid little allen key to change a blade - or indeed any
tool at all.

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

My original old one did not have any kind of blade guide roller at all Dave,
but never-the-less, still managed to cut a straight line in anything from
chocolate cake to nuclear fuel rods !

The blade was fixed into the 'sewing machine' type holder, with a slot-head
screw. The current one has a spring-loaded quick release blade mount, so
requires no tool to effect a blade change. That's about the only thing on it
that seems to work ok. I guess that bit had a different designer, or was
bought in ready assembled, from a company that knew what they were doing ...

Arfa

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

Yup 100% agreed. I learned that the hard way. Eventually John Rumm made me
buy the Makita :-)

"Its a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it". Eats 38mm worktop for breakfast,
square cut, easy to follow a line. Well worth the dosh.

Years ago I bit the bullet and bought a DeWalt jigsaw that cost me a
fair old bit at the time. Never regretted it, even though I was doing a
fair bit of site work at the time necessitated it being 110V, that's
just a slight inconvenience now.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House