Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.

Thanks for your help.

Jack

wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.

Thanks for your help.

Jack


Shorts are very often shorts because of defects. Most often the ends of
boards have splits. Planing can cause tear out on wild grain but does not
cause splitting, cracks or knots. Carry a small hand plane with you and
smooth the surface of the pieces that you are considering before committing.

wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.

I have bought shorts and been happy with them.

You just have to look more carefully. Sometimes I underestimate how bad a
defect will be, but knots and cracks are certainly visible before planing.

wrote in message
Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.

That depends upon how much is usable for a particular project and what you
paid. Typically when buying rough lumber from a mill you need an experienced
eye, and even then the waste factor can be quite high.

..... AND, you almost always should own a jointer and a planer!

To find out whether you are wasting your time and money you need to figure
how much of what you buy is actually usable in a project.

IOW, if you paid $200 for 100 bf ($2/bf) of red oak, and only 50 bf is
usable, your cost for that 50 bf was actually $4/bf .... on the high side
for FAS red oak in most locales today (which is obviously NOT what you're
paying for).

However, if you only paid $75 for 100 bf ($.75/bf), then you may be getting
a good deal, even with a waste factor of 50%.

Sounds as if you need to be stepping up to a next higher grade of lumber ...
that said, you can pay for jointer and planer pretty quick if you do a lot
of woodworking and get mill prices on rough lumber.

Your best bet may be, sans jointer and planer, to find a hardwood dealer in
your area that will let you pick and choose from the various categories of
surfaced lumber.

Might want to read through this:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...baf04 e689e8c

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.

Thanks for your help.

Jack

I use System 1 Epoxy to fill voids in a piece of wood I want to save. This
is a common practice with mesquite.
I've used it with mesquite, cherry and white oak.
Use clear shipping tape if the split goes through the wood to dam up the
epoxy. Then you come back the next day and plane or scrape the wood.
You never know where a wind check will show up in oak, and sometimes you
have enough time and money in a piece, your justified in filling the void.

Maybe that's what woodworkers do, work the wood. :-)

A $20 Ebay #4 Bailey hand plane, all tuned up will make short work fixing
the blemish.

wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.


Red oak is sort of dicey to dry properly. It's prone to "honeycomb" faults
which don't mean much if you're making flooring out of it. If you're paying
#2 common prices, don't bellyache. If you're paying selects prices, demand
grade lumber for your money.

Most oak hereabout is skip planed to reveal such faults prior to sale.

Thanks for all the replies. I am paying $3 bf for the shorts with
regular stock ranging from 5.50 to 7 bf - These are "select" grade
red oak. The prices are in CDN dollars. I live in Richmond Hill, ON,
Canada - Anybody know if these prices are reasonable and if not where
else I could try? I would prefer to be able to sort through S2S, S3S
or S4S stock, but the only place i know of that carries this is Home
Depot. I will eventually buy a planer and jointer but don't want to
invest too much money before I know if I like the hobby!

Jack

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for all the replies. I am paying $3 bf for the shorts with
regular stock ranging from 5.50 to 7 bf - These are "select" grade
red oak. The prices are in CDN dollars. I live in Richmond Hill, ON,
Canada - Anybody know if these prices are reasonable and if not where
else I could try? I would prefer to be able to sort through S2S, S3S
or S4S stock, but the only place i know of that carries this is Home
Depot. I will eventually buy a planer and jointer but don't want to
invest too much money before I know if I like the hobby!

Jack

The 5.50 to 7 bf is about right for 8/4 (U.S. dollars). 4/4 stock is about 3
bf. These prices are for 1 st and 2 nds in the Gulf Coast area.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for all the replies. I am paying $3 bf for the shorts with
regular stock ranging from 5.50 to 7 bf - These are "select" grade
red oak. The prices are in CDN dollars. I live in Richmond Hill, ON,
Canada - Anybody know if these prices are reasonable and if not where
else I could try? I would prefer to be able to sort through S2S, S3S
or S4S stock, but the only place i know of that carries this is Home
Depot. I will eventually buy a planer and jointer but don't want to
invest too much money before I know if I like the hobby!

Jack


That sounds very high considering that they are Cut Offs. A few miles North
of Houston M&G Sawmill sells 8'-9' lengths 4"-10" wide FAS/SEL for $1.75 BF
Kiln Dried, Band Saw cut.

He ships, you may want to check him out.

http://www.mgsawmill.com/product.htm

You might try to see who local cabinet shops are buying from. Just a
few phone calls or dropping in will likely get you some good intel. Not
all but some suppliers will sell via will call and others even let you
pick. Maybe you can't select the boards but you will probably pay half
of what you are paying now.

wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. I am paying $3 bf for the shorts with
regular stock ranging from 5.50 to 7 bf - These are "select" grade
red oak. The prices are in CDN dollars. I live in Richmond Hill, ON,
Canada - Anybody know if these prices are reasonable and if not where
else I could try? I would prefer to be able to sort through S2S, S3S
or S4S stock, but the only place i know of that carries this is Home
Depot. I will eventually buy a planer and jointer but don't want to
invest too much money before I know if I like the hobby!

Jack

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for all the replies. I am paying $3 bf for the shorts with
regular stock ranging from 5.50 to 7 bf - These are "select" grade
red oak. The prices are in CDN dollars. I live in Richmond Hill, ON,
Canada - Anybody know if these prices are reasonable and if not where
else I could try? I would prefer to be able to sort through S2S, S3S
or S4S stock, but the only place i know of that carries this is Home
Depot. I will eventually buy a planer and jointer but don't want to
invest too much money before I know if I like the hobby!


Select, in lumberman parlance doesn't really allow "shorts.' It's part of
the grade description. What you have most likely are relatively clear cuts
taken between defects which would normally lower the grade of the board.
Six-foot by 4 inch is the minimum cut for select, if memory serves.

Sounds like the kiln operator is the source of your problems. Consider
buying green if you can stand the smell the first few weeks. Sticker in the
basement for the winter and it'll be usable next spring. Call some
sawmills.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for all the replies. I am paying $3 bf for the shorts with
regular stock ranging from 5.50 to 7 bf - These are "select" grade
red oak. The prices are in CDN dollars. I live in Richmond Hill, ON,
Canada - Anybody know if these prices are reasonable and if not where
else I could try? I would prefer to be able to sort through S2S, S3S
or S4S stock, but the only place i know of that carries this is Home
Depot. I will eventually buy a planer and jointer but don't want to
invest too much money before I know if I like the hobby!

Jack

Try Dale Wallace of Wallace Woodworking . He's a one man mill on Hwy # 12
just north of the turnoff for Port Perry. It's a blue building with a barn
and a cinder block building on the east side. I've not been there in a few
years but as far as I know he's still in business. His PH # is
1-905-655-3096 and pager # 1-905-721-5363. e-mail is
Give him a call. You may also want to try Peacock lumber in Oshawa but I
would try Dale first. Hope this helps.
Jim

On 22 Nov 2006 06:07:39 -0800, "
wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and I have been purchasing red oak "shorts" from
a local mill. This is kiln dried rough lumber and I don't have a
planer/jointer so I have to get the mill to do this for me. The
problem I am having is that the wood looks fine before planing, but
after it is full of splits, cracks, knots, etc. I find it very
difficult to determine if wood has defects in its rough state. Is this
normal? Is it caused by the planing operation? Is it because "shorts"
are actually rejects? I would really like to know as I am wasting alot
of money.

Hi Jack,

Without knowing exactly what you're dealing with, I'd be willing to
guess that those "shorts" are the pieces the sawmill cuts off the ends
of the finished planks to remove the checking (cracks caused while
drying).

I know wood is kind of expensive, but you'll probably be happier
buying full lengths. I don't know what kind of quantities the mill
will sell you, but there is usually a hardwood dealer in most areas
that will sell you as little as a single plank at a time.