:Jerry: wrote:

Indeed, vehicles with automatic transmissions are very dangerous, I
know someone who wrote off *four* brand new cars whilst doing a dealer
PDI check on a new Volvo whilst it was "ticking over in Park" (well he
actually had to rev it up to check the CO readings), on investigation
(by the insurance Co and Volvo UK) it was found that a manufacturing
fault had caused the box to select drive rather than 'Park' even
though the lever *was* in Park.



To write off one car like that - bad luck. Two - well, you'd think he'd
take more care. But FOUR? I'm pretty sure by that stage part of *my*
PDI would be to check for the known fault in the gearbox...

Andy

charles wrote:
In article ,
:Jerry: wrote:
WRONG. driving lamps can also be fitted below the bumper level,
otherwise an awful lot of car manufactures are fitting four fog lights
to the fronts of their cars...

depends on the height of the bumper. The C&U regulations used to specify
that the centre of the lamp had to be 24" above ground to avoid being
classed as fog light. I've no reason to believe this has changed.


Charles,

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

It seems to me there may be aerodynamic restrictions caused just by
light regulations.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:

charles wrote:

In article ,
:Jerry: wrote:

WRONG. driving lamps can also be fitted below the bumper level,
otherwise an awful lot of car manufactures are fitting four fog
lights to the fronts of their cars...
You could well be right, but fog lamps are designated as being focussed
lamps whose centre is less than 24 inches from the ground. Colour of
light does not come into it.

depends on the height of the bumper. The C&U regulations used to specify
that the centre of the lamp had to be 24" above ground to avoid being
classed as fog light. I've no reason to believe this has changed.
If it has been changed, it will only be to accommodate the change from
inches to CMs.

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

Usually in front of any metal bits at the front of the car, so as to
cause the lights to shine forwards.

It seems to me there may be aerodynamic restrictions caused just by
light regulations.

???


Dave

In article ,
Andy Champ wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
:Jerry: wrote:
WRONG. driving lamps can also be fitted below the bumper level,
otherwise an awful lot of car manufactures are fitting four fog lights
to the fronts of their cars...

depends on the height of the bumper. The C&U regulations used to
specify that the centre of the lamp had to be 24" above ground to avoid
being classed as fog light. I've no reason to believe this has changed.


Charles,

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

I seem to remember that there is a maximum distance that the lights have to
be from the edge, but I don't think there was ever anything about how far
recessed they could be.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
As for motorcycles, why do they drive round using
full beam?

I don't, I use dipped beam

That really gives me black spots in my vision. I've started
to put mine on now, when they approach me.

AFAIK you can't buy a motorcycle in the UK where you can switch the
headlights off!

Err ... what ?

off / parking / beam switch works for me


--
geoff

Actually, Arfa Daily *didn't* write that ... d;~}

mea culpa - I was too lazy to go to the OP


--
geoff

In message , Mark
writes
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:39:36 +0100, geoff wrote:

In message , Arfa Daily
writes
As for motorcycles, why do they drive round using
full beam?

I don't, I use dipped beam

That really gives me black spots in my vision. I've started
to put mine on now, when they approach me.

AFAIK you can't buy a motorcycle in the UK where you can switch the
headlights off!

Err ... what ?

off / parking / beam switch works for me

What bike is this and how old?

Honda Fireblade 5 years old

All the new/newish bikes I have seen
recently only have normal/main beam. However this only includes
examples from a few manufacturers.

I was told by a salesman that all bikes legally sold in the UK now do
not have an off switch. Maybe I shouldn't have believed him?


--
geoff

Andy Champ wrote:
:Jerry: wrote:

Indeed, vehicles with automatic transmissions are very dangerous, I
know someone who wrote off *four* brand new cars whilst doing a dealer
PDI check on a new Volvo whilst it was "ticking over in Park" (well he
actually had to rev it up to check the CO readings), on investigation
(by the insurance Co and Volvo UK) it was found that a manufacturing
fault had caused the box to select drive rather than 'Park' even
though the lever *was* in Park.


To write off one car like that - bad luck. Two - well, you'd think he'd
take more care. But FOUR? I'm pretty sure by that stage part of *my*
PDI would be to check for the known fault in the gearbox...

I got the impression the three other cars were innocent bystanders
rather than faulty volvos...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

Usually in front of any metal bits at the front of the car, so as to
cause the lights to shine forwards.

It seems to me there may be aerodynamic restrictions caused just by
light regulations.

???


For low drag you want the front of the car as low and smooth as
possible. Now if you are required to be 2ft high 2ft from the front of
the car for the lights there are strict limits on how low you can make
the front of the car, which must surely affect drag.

Have a look at this modern Audi le Mans racer

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9445/0126ky.jpg

and you'll see that (for aerodynamics) the front is limited only by the
height of the wheel arches and the driver's knees. I doubt the mirrors
are 2ft off the ground - imagine what the shape would be if there were
fixed headlights above the front wheels.

Pop-ups BTW were a fix used by some - Mazda's MX5 probably the most
mass-market - but crash test legislation has largely killed that, and
compulsory "headlights on all the time" would kill it completely.

Andy

In article ,
charles wrote:
when indictor lamps game out colours weren't specified. I remember
having white ones to the front in a 1965 Anglia. But they weren't
single filament bulbs. they were twin filament units in single glass
envelope. Usually 12w and 21w.

I thought we'd gone amber by law long before then.

--
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
As for motorcycles, why do they drive round using
full beam?

I don't, I use dipped beam

That really gives me black spots in my vision. I've started
to put mine on now, when they approach me.

AFAIK you can't buy a motorcycle in the UK where you can switch the
headlights off!

Err ... what ?

off / parking / beam switch works for me


--
geoff

Actually, Arfa Daily *didn't* write that ... d;~}

mea culpa - I was too lazy to go to the OP


--
geoff

No probs, old boy !

Arfa

Andy Champ wrote:
:Jerry: wrote:

Indeed, vehicles with automatic transmissions are very dangerous, I
know someone who wrote off *four* brand new cars whilst doing a dealer
PDI check on a new Volvo whilst it was "ticking over in Park" (well he
actually had to rev it up to check the CO readings), on investigation
(by the insurance Co and Volvo UK) it was found that a manufacturing
fault had caused the box to select drive rather than 'Park' even
though the lever *was* in Park.


To write off one car like that - bad luck. Two - well, you'd think he'd
take more care. But FOUR? I'm pretty sure by that stage part of *my*
PDI would be to check for the known fault in the gearbox...

Andy
Its patently obvious that ":Jerry:" is a man with one brain cell who is
used to waving it around in a company of those who have none at all.

John Rumm wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:
:Jerry: wrote:

Indeed, vehicles with automatic transmissions are very dangerous, I
know someone who wrote off *four* brand new cars whilst doing a
dealer PDI check on a new Volvo whilst it was "ticking over in Park"
(well he actually had to rev it up to check the CO readings), on
investigation (by the insurance Co and Volvo UK) it was found that a
manufacturing fault had caused the box to select drive rather than
'Park' even though the lever *was* in Park.


To write off one car like that - bad luck. Two - well, you'd think
he'd take more care. But FOUR? I'm pretty sure by that stage part of
*my* PDI would be to check for the known fault in the gearbox...

I got the impression the three other cars were innocent bystanders
rather than faulty volvos...

No Volvo is an innocent bystander.

They are all guilty.

Andy Champ wrote:
Dave wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

Usually in front of any metal bits at the front of the car, so as to
cause the lights to shine forwards.

It seems to me there may be aerodynamic restrictions caused just by
light regulations.

???


For low drag you want the front of the car as low and smooth as
possible. Now if you are required to be 2ft high 2ft from the front of
the car for the lights there are strict limits on how low you can make
the front of the car, which must surely affect drag.

Have a look at this modern Audi le Mans racer

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9445/0126ky.jpg

and you'll see that (for aerodynamics) the front is limited only by the
height of the wheel arches and the driver's knees. I doubt the mirrors
are 2ft off the ground - imagine what the shape would be if there were
fixed headlights above the front wheels.

Pop-ups BTW were a fix used by some - Mazda's MX5 probably the most
mass-market - but crash test legislation has largely killed that, and
compulsory "headlights on all the time" would kill it completely.

Andy

Less than nineteen inches?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7381078.stm

(I don't think the jet engine is mandatory.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:
Rod wrote:
:Jerry: wrote:


First rule taught to all in the motor trade, ALWAYS depress the
clutch (or put the left foot on the brake if the vehicle is an
automatic) BEFORE operating the starter, a sloppy / mal-adjusted
gear leaver can give the 'appearance' of being in neutral (or park)
but not actually being so.

snip

I was told, when I first started driving, to engage the clutch when
starting because it relieves load on the battery/starter. This may have
been more of an issue with cars of the time, but it's a habit I've never
got out of.

Rob

On 2008-06-21 03:09:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

John Rumm wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:
:Jerry: wrote:

Indeed, vehicles with automatic transmissions are very dangerous, I
know someone who wrote off *four* brand new cars whilst doing a dealer
PDI check on a new Volvo whilst it was "ticking over in Park" (well he
actually had to rev it up to check the CO readings), on investigation
(by the insurance Co and Volvo UK) it was found that a manufacturing
fault had caused the box to select drive rather than 'Park' even though
the lever *was* in Park.


To write off one car like that - bad luck. Two - well, you'd think
he'd take more care. But FOUR? I'm pretty sure by that stage part of
*my* PDI would be to check for the known fault in the gearbox...

I got the impression the three other cars were innocent bystanders
rather than faulty volvos...

No Volvo is an innocent bystander.

They are all guilty.

Especially the ones where the driver has a hat

In article ,
Rob wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:
Rod wrote:
:Jerry: wrote:


First rule taught to all in the motor trade, ALWAYS depress the
clutch (or put the left foot on the brake if the vehicle is an
automatic) BEFORE operating the starter, a sloppy / mal-adjusted
gear leaver can give the 'appearance' of being in neutral (or park)
but not actually being so.

snip

I was told, when I first started driving, to engage the clutch when
starting because it relieves load on the battery/starter. This may have
been more of an issue with cars of the time, but it's a habit I've never
got out of.

I was also taught the same. On a cold morning you don't want the battery
(which will have reduced output because it's cold) having to stir up the
oil in the gear box as well as the engine. Maybe I learned this because in
general, where I lived, it froze at night in the winter.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

John Rumm wrote:

I got the impression the three other cars were innocent bystanders
rather than faulty volvos...


That does make more sense I admit. Perhaps the "someone" wasn't :jerry:
after all!

Andy

Rod wrote:

Less than nineteen inches?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7381078.stm

(I don't think the jet engine is mandatory.)


They may claim it's road legal, but IMHO the headlights are too low.

Oh, and the jet is a fake. They *aren't* road legal!

Andy

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:27:24 +0100, Rob wrote:

I was told, when I first started driving, to engage the clutch when
starting because it relieves load on the battery/starter.

How does engaging the clutch reduce the load? The default state (pedal not
pressed) of the clutch is engaged and the input shaft of the gear box is
driven.

Now if you *disengaged* the clutch, by pressing the clutch pedal, drive is
removed from the gearbox input shaft.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
Rod wrote:

Less than nineteen inches?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7381078.stm

(I don't think the jet engine is mandatory.)


They may claim it's road legal, but IMHO the headlights are too low.

AFAICS they need to be a minimum of 500 mm from the ground to be dipped beam
headlamps.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uks...en_9.htm#nsch4

That makes the car possibly legal if there are pop dipped beam units fitted.

Of course it isn't a new car so it may just predate any of the laws.

Its a stupid design for a car anyway and the designer is just showing how
stupid he is.
If you want a go kart buy a go kart.

dennis@home wrote:

Its a stupid design for a car anyway and the designer is just showing
how stupid he is.

In you not so humble opinion I take it?

The designer has demonstrated significant skill in packaging, and the
finish while not to everyone's taste appears to be rather good. I think
the design should be applauded - there is no reason cars should all be
dull and uninteresting lumps.

If you want a go kart buy a go kart.

That would be a Woosh then....

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:

Its a stupid design for a car anyway and the designer is just showing how
stupid he is.

In you not so humble opinion I take it?

The designer has demonstrated significant skill in packaging,

Poor skill as it happens, it a stupid design.
I bet Ford could do one much lower if there was *any* reason to.
He could have driven lying down and used mirrors then he could have fitted a
roll bar and actually built a car that might be legal, once you put in the
pop up lights and other stuff to pass the mot.
Building it on something like an old mini subframe just so you don't have to
pass any of the current laws isn't significant packaging skill.

and the finish while not to everyone's taste appears to be rather good. I
think the design should be applauded - there is no reason cars should all
be dull and uninteresting lumps.

That one is so uninteresting you wouldn't notice it.
Ooops, that was the problem.
Now where's my lorry tyre jack?

I wonder if he has a flag on a stick for his C5?


If you want a go kart buy a go kart.

That would be a Woosh then....

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:48:00 +0100 Andy Champ wrote :
do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

On cars like the new Micra they are some way back.

The frog-eye Sprite was so designed IIRC because of a minimum rule re
headlight height

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:48:00 +0100 Andy Champ wrote :
do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

On cars like the new Micra they are some way back.

The frog-eye Sprite was so designed IIRC because of a minimum rule re
headlight height


Not at all sure they are any further back from the front of a Micra
than, for example, on my old Saab. However, I am assuming that the rules
include the full depth of the bumper which was significant on the Saab
and not very on a Micra.

I had a feeling that a Jaguar or a Citroen might have had the greatest
distance. So I went to have a look on Google image search for Citroen
and found this example from one of their concept cars:

http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/concept_cars/citroen_c-airlounge.html

On the same page, I also noticed this - which made me smile. (You might
want to be careful where you are and who you are with if/when you look
at this.):

http://www.logohallucination.com/2006/11/15/woman-heap-vs-citroen/

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
Tony Bryer wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:48:00 +0100 Andy Champ wrote :

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?


On cars like the new Micra they are some way back.

The frog-eye Sprite was so designed IIRC because of a minimum rule re
headlight height


Not at all sure they are any further back from the front of a Micra
than, for example, on my old Saab. However, I am assuming that the rules
include the full depth of the bumper which was significant on the Saab
and not very on a Micra.

I had a feeling that a Jaguar or a Citroen might have had the greatest
distance. So I went to have a look on Google image search for Citroen
and found this example from one of their concept cars:

http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/concept_cars/citroen_c-airlounge.html

But I can't see where the toilet rolls are.

On the same page, I also noticed this - which made me smile. (You might
want to be careful where you are and who you are with if/when you look
at this.):

http://www.logohallucination.com/2006/11/15/woman-heap-vs-citroen/

Might take you an hour to sample the goods and you will exit this with a
bad back, but...

Who cares.

Dave

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:27:24 +0100, Rob wrote:

I was told, when I first started driving, to engage the clutch when
starting because it relieves load on the battery/starter.

How does engaging the clutch reduce the load? The default state (pedal not
pressed) of the clutch is engaged and the input shaft of the gear box is
driven.

Now if you *disengaged* the clutch, by pressing the clutch pedal, drive is
removed from the gearbox input shaft.


Yes, 'push it in' as I would have it. On my old Mini I was told it did
something with the transfer gears as well.

Rob

Rod gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

do you happen to know if there are restrictions on how close to the
front of the car headlights have to be?

On cars like the new Micra they are some way back.

The frog-eye Sprite was so designed IIRC because of a minimum rule re
headlight height

Not at all sure they are any further back from the front of a Micra
than, for example, on my old Saab. However, I am assuming that the rules
include the full depth of the bumper which was significant on the Saab
and not very on a Micra.

I had a feeling that a Jaguar or a Citroen might have had the greatest
distance.

Seen where the main beam is on a Fiat Multipla?

In message , charles
writes
[]
I seem to remember that there is a maximum distance that the lights have to
be from the edge, but I don't think there was ever anything about how far
recessed they could be.

I believe that the from-the-side rule (probably American) is why the
later Land Rovers have the headlights in the front of the wings rather
than nearer the centre as in older models.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

All I ask is to _prove_ that money can't make me happy.