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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa |
#2
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article ,
"Arfa Daily" wrote: I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa I'm with you there. Halogens, too. I love halogen light. I'm a conservationist and an environmentalist from way back, but I think there are more suitable ways to save energy. I just hope that the form factor doesn't change, so that lamps and repair parts will remain available for my incandescent bulbs. |
#3
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
On Dec 30, 8:49*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa The US congress is also talking aout MANDATING CFLs because of the energy use - translate: Global Warming. We have a house as full of them as possible and I don't give a hoot about GW but we DO care about the electric bill. In southen CA electric rate is $0.25/ KWh so anything that helps is OK by me. There is a large difference between CFLs from different manufacturers, the old Philips taking a few seceond to even BEGIN to light and then a minute to come up to full brilliance. OTOH its one of the first ones I bought 7 years ago and still going strong. Be aware that some are only rated to have the base down and unenclosed and they do fail FAST if you don't follow the instructions. When light bulbs are outlawed only outlaws...... Happy New Year GG |
#4
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
wrote in message ... On Dec 30, 8:49 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote: I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa The US congress is also talking aout MANDATING CFLs because of the energy use - translate: Global Warming. We have a house as full of them as possible and I don't give a hoot about GW but we DO care about the electric bill. In southen CA electric rate is $0.25/ KWh so anything that helps is OK by me. There is a large difference between CFLs from different manufacturers, the old Philips taking a few seceond to even BEGIN to light and then a minute to come up to full brilliance. OTOH its one of the first ones I bought 7 years ago and still going strong. Be aware that some are only rated to have the base down and unenclosed and they do fail FAST if you don't follow the instructions. When light bulbs are outlawed only outlaws...... Happy New Year GG I'm with you on the GW thing. I think that there's enough evidence to make the case for it being man-made, dubious at very best. Also, like Smitty, I think that there are better ways to save. As far as it being an economics thing, I would guess that is why a 3000 room hotel in Vegas is going over to them. I can't imagine the corporation that owns this particular hotel ( and 50% of the others on the Strip ) actually caring too much about the eco aspect. But I really think that these lamps need to get a lot better *in general* to make mandating their use a truly viable option. I am sure that there are some very good ones at the leading edge of the technology, but the ones that I encountered in this particular hotel, sure as hell didn't fall into any category down at the 'acceptable' end of the scale, let alone the 'good' end. On the other hand, I did see some stunning examples of the latest LED technology. You can always see new forms of this in use in Vegas, and a lot of the hotels seem to be going over to LED floodlamps for their properties, with spectacularly good results. The Venetian has just completed a new accommodation tower, which was due to open a few days after we left. During the last couple of days that we were there, they were carrying out commissioning tests on the new LED giant TV screen outside. Now there are a lot of these down The Strip, but this one was so bright, it was blinding. I'm sure that once they can get the CRI right for making LED based 'incandescent-look-alike' bulbs, they will quickly knock CFLs off their shaky eco-perch. Arfa |
#5
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
All right, Arfa? Good to have you back.
Yeah, I don't have answers to your questions, but I do know what you mean about those bulbs. The aging CFL I've got in my bedroom is utterly appalling; it takes ages to brigten up; sometimes I've walked past the bedroom having just got up, and thought I hadn't actually turned the thing on, it's been that dark! I mean, I could just buy a new one, but I never remember! What is the mechanism by which they take so long to get going? Is it some mercury vapour thing whereby the mercury takes ages to go into gas phase? As you can tell, I have no idea what's going on inside these bulbs. I thought the pressure was so low that the mercury was always gaseous even at room temperature, but I'm not sure. That's pretty embarrassing. And is the warm-up time affected by age? I don't see how it should be, but I don't think they're that bad when new. It does seem to be age-fellated. RELATED. Sorry - she's gone now. Also, how is it that the light output diminishes with bulb age? Cheers, anyway. Martin - not the brightest bulb on the xmas tree -- M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890 Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie |
#6
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If
you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably won't be annoyed by that. Incandescent lamps produce an extremely broad range of light frequencies, which is part of the reason they are so inefficient. Fluorescent lamps produce a narrower range which tends to be heavy at the blue end of the spectrum unless special phosphors are used, and those fade faster than the "blue" ones. LED lights are narrowest yet, leaving one feeling slightly color-blind. My reading light and my bathroom light are going to stay incandescent as long as I can get them that way. I'm looking forward to seeing, in wide-screen high definition, the results of Hollywood stars dressing under LED lamps. |
#7
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
none wrote:
I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably won't be annoyed by that. Have you heard the RF trash radiated from some of the LED traffic lights? -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#8
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"none" wrote in message
t... Incandescent lamps produce an extremely broad range of light frequencies, which is part of the reason they are so inefficient. But tungsten-halogen lamps are incandescent, and significantly more-efficient than conventional incandescent lamps, because they operate at a higher temperature, and convert more heat into visible light. |
#9
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote: Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... There are some reasonable CFLs out there - but I'd not expect to see them in an hotel room. They mean you to suffer while you save energy - and them money. The GEC RO80 size I use in the workshop inspection light is very good - at least as bright as a 100 watt and the colour rendering passable. But it cost over 15 gbp... -- *Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#10
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote: none wrote: I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably won't be annoyed by that. Have you heard the RF trash radiated from some of the LED traffic lights? LEDs as such don't produce any RF but some types of drivers for them do. -- *Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#11
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"Fleetie" wrote in message ... All right, Arfa? Good to have you back. Yeah, I don't have answers to your questions, but I do know what you mean about those bulbs. The aging CFL I've got in my bedroom is utterly appalling; it takes ages to brigten up; sometimes I've walked past the bedroom having just got up, and thought I hadn't actually turned the thing on, it's been that dark! I mean, I could just buy a new one, but I never remember! What is the mechanism by which they take so long to get going? Is it some mercury vapour thing whereby the mercury takes ages to go into gas phase? As you can tell, I have no idea what's going on inside these bulbs. I thought the pressure was so low that the mercury was always gaseous even at room temperature, but I'm not sure. That's pretty embarrassing. And is the warm-up time affected by age? I don't see how it should be, but I don't think they're that bad when new. It does seem to be age-fellated. RELATED. Sorry - she's gone now. Also, how is it that the light output diminishes with bulb age? Cheers, anyway. Hi Fleetie - good to hear from you. Trust all is well with you ? Go have a look at http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html It might help you out with the concept and operation of these dreadful devices. Happy new year to ya, and stay in touch. Always glad to see you pop up on here. Arfa |
#12
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa I find that the light quality from CFLs varies widely, some are junk, some are quite good. I no longer use any standard incandescent lamps in my house and haven't in years, I do have a few Halogena lamps in decorative fixtures, as far as I know, the ban does not apply to those. I still despise an outright ban on anything of the sort, tax them, fine, but keep them available. It's not possible to forsee all the niche applications where they will still be needed. Of course I recently resurrected a nice old 2 stage vacuum pump and I found a place that sells tungsten wire so maybe I can just make my own lightbulbs if it comes to that |
#13
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
What is the mechanism by which they take so long to get going? Is it some mercury vapour thing whereby the mercury takes ages to go into gas phase? As you can tell, I have no idea what's going on inside these bulbs. I thought the pressure was so low that the mercury was always gaseous even at room temperature, but I'm not sure. That's pretty embarrassing. The higher power/more compact CFLs use a mercury amalgam instead of pure mercury in an effort to control vapor pressure over a wide range of tube temperature. The result is that when the lamp is cold, very little mercury is vaporized and very little light is produced. For some reason some lamps are considerably worse with this than others, to the point of being useless for most indoor lighting, and yes, they do tend to get worse with age. I have some excellent CFLs, but I've also had some junky ones. |
#14
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote: none wrote: I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably won't be annoyed by that. Have you heard the RF trash radiated from some of the LED traffic lights? LEDs as such don't produce any RF but some types of drivers for them do. Yes, Dave. I am VERY aware of that. One of the problems of selecting SMPS for our line of US $20,000 to $80,000 Telemetry receivers was their radiated noise. About 95% of the samples were rejected for this reason. The noise sounds like a bad SMPS, and the noise is carried on the power lines for about two miles, from each of the new lights. That leaves VERY few places that you can listen to AM or shortwave. The Vicor supplies were quiet, but had a horrible failure rate. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#15
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article , Arfa Daily
writes I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Snap. Somerfield were selling boxes of 10 60W incandescent for a quid, so I stocked up with enough for the next 20 years. -- (\__/) Bunny says NO to Windows Vista! (='.'=) http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html (")_(") |
#16
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
James Sweet wrote:
Of course I recently resurrected a nice old 2 stage vacuum pump and I found a place that sells tungsten wire so maybe I can just make my own lightbulbs if it comes to that Hmmm, a refiliament service? good idea if you could do some stage lighting bubbles, they can cost £75 each! Ron(UK) -- Lune Valley Audio Public Address Systems Hire Sales Maintenance www.lunevalleyaudio.com |
#17
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#18
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article ,
N Cook wrote: For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-) -- *In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#19
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"N Cook" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote in message ... I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out of them ... d;~} Arfa |
#20
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , N Cook wrote: For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-) For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent lamps. http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99 It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED. Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately. -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA |
#21
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Rich Webb wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , N Cook wrote: For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-) For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent lamps. http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99 It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED. Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately. News just in, as they say http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7167860.stm Ron(UK) |
#22
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Arfa Daily wrote in message ... "N Cook" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote in message ... I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it. Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor, but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of nights, I gave up trying. Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ... Arfa For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out of them ... d;~} Arfa I just tried a red broad felt tip pen on half a CFL. Gave a poor streaky finish but certainly a much improved red caste on that side, but noticeably reduced brightness, so horses for courses. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#23
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT, Arfa Daily wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. Do you suppose that joint went out and bought Top Dollar CFLs, or the very cheapest -- like their toilet paper? :-) One thing I noticed is that, since they last so much longer than an incandescent, they get dusty/dirty! I had ocassion to clean the decorative glass shields on the light fixture above the bathroom mirror. It was a 'rack assembly' with 4 lights. I had to unscrew the CFLs to get the glass shields out. So, as long as I had to handle them anyway, I used a damp, soapy rag to wipe down the tubes of each CFL. The dust and grime being removed was quite apparent as I did it. And, upon reassembly, the light in the room _was_ noticably brighter. Incandescents just don't often last that long to get that grimy. Jonesy -- Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | linux 38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2 *** Killfiling google posts: http://jonz.net/ng.htm |
#24
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. That will just make things worse. Compact fluorescent lamps all use trichromatic phosphors, they emit in fairly narrow peaks in blue, green, and reddish orange, you can't create wavelengths that aren't there with filters. Highest CRI I've seen from a compact lamp is 82, though you can get linear lamps with 90+ CRI but they're slightly less efficient. |
#25
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article ,
Allodoxaphobia wrote: Incandescents just don't often last that long to get that grimy. I've got two PAR38 150 watt lamps in downlighters either side of the window which are on most nights - albeit via a dimmer. And they're about 20 years old. Removed once in a while for cleaning. -- Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#26
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"Rich Webb" wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , N Cook wrote: For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-) For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent lamps. http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99 It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED. Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately. I have a nice spectrometer-grade grating, but you CAN just use one of the transparent (unsilvered) blank CDs that you often get at the top of a stack of recordable CD blanks, and just look through it. The red response from CFLs is interesting. The red is quite narrowband from what I've seen. It also is in CRT TVs. The latter use a yttrium compound to produce red, I believe. For good colour rendition, you need a nice broad, continuous spectrum, from far-red to far-blue. You COULD produce "white" using just a red laser, a green one, and a blue one (i.e. all VERY narrowband) so you've effectively got just 3 wavelengths present! BUT the colour rendition would be AWFUL if you used it as room illumination, AND you could come up with coloured cards, or filters, that looked (say) green in sunlight, and looked TOTALLY BLACK under this laser "white" light - for obvious reasons. Martin -- M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890 Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie |
#27
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
You COULD produce "white" using just a red laser, a green one, and a blue one (i.e. all VERY narrowband) so you've effectively got just 3 wavelengths present! BUT the colour rendition would be AWFUL if you used it as room illumination, AND you could come up with coloured cards, or filters, that looked (say) green in sunlight, and looked TOTALLY BLACK under this laser "white" light - for obvious reasons. It won't look totally black, colored cards or filters are not nearly narrow enough for that, but the color rendering will not be perfect if the emission bands don't exactly match the sensors in the eye. You can in fact have very good color rendition with three fairly narrow emitters, but the problem is finding a good red phosphor. The modern Yttrium based phosphor used in color CRTs and trichromatic fluoescent lamps is orange-red, rather than a pure deep red. It's much more efficient and longer lasting than the old true red phosphor but the CRI will not exceed the mid 80s using it. Generally speaking, a light source that does a good job rendering reds will have good all around color rendition, red is the hard part. |
#28
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"James Sweet" wrote
It won't look totally black, colored cards or filters are not nearly narrow enough for that, but the color rendering will not be perfect if the emission bands don't exactly match the sensors in the eye. I disagree a bit, but this is indeed a very complex field. As you say, there are also the response curves of the eye's sensors to consider, but in this case, IF you could find a narrowband-ISH (say) green filter that looked green in sunlight, but whose green peak didn't match the (e.g. 532nm) wavelength of the green laser, it'd look damn near black. Actually I first thought about this a long time ago, and it's something I'd love to try! Mostly unrelated, but I believe that the eye's "red" sensor doesn't actually peak in what we call "red". It's more orange, IIRC. It's just that the other 2 sensors drop off so much "earlier" (as lambda increases), that at the red end of visible, that's the only one with ANY response, so we do get a different unique overall perceived colour (i.e. what we think of as "deep red"). Also, there's the thing about the eye's "red" sensor also having response in far-blue/violet, which leads to the confusing things that happen when we look at sources in that part of the spectum, as well as the confusion that arises between violet/purple. It's interesting stuff! Martin -- M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890 Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie |
#29
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article ,
Rich Webb wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , N Cook wrote: For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste. Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-) For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent lamps. http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99 It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED. There's no such thing as a 'white' LED. And even the closest is far far worse than a decent fluorescent. Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately. -- *I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#30
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message ... On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT, Arfa Daily wrote: I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. Do you suppose that joint went out and bought Top Dollar CFLs, or the very cheapest -- like their toilet paper? :-) snip Well, I have to say that I had no complaint with their toilet paper. They actually use Quilted Northern, which is what I buy myself, when I stay in a private place in Florida. Not being a native American, I have no idea whether this is considered to be a laughable 'cheapo' brand over there, but it seems to compare pretty reasonably with the brand that I usually buy here, which is *not* a cheap and cheerful one. So I'm not sure what that says about the CFLs that they are using. I don't expect for one minute that they will be the most expensive ones that you can get, but by the same token, with the buying power that an organisation like MGM / Mirage have got, there is no reason to suspect that they would be bottom end Dollar Store jobs either. If in fact they are, then I think that they will quickly run into trouble with failures. However, the basic point that I was making was how that just by changing the room's lighting, they have made what was a perfectly acceptable room, in which you were able to read at night, into a dim depressing cave. Perhaps the hope is that you will spend more time in the casino, and less in the room ... ;~} Arfa |
#31
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Arfa Daily wrote:
Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out of them ... d;~} Gromit? I just picked up a DVD of "Wallace & Gromit", "The Curse of the Were-Rabbit" -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#32
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out of them ... d;~} Gromit? I just picked up a DVD of "Wallace & Gromit", "The Curse of the Were-Rabbit" Just so ! In Wallace and Gromit - A Fine Day Out, Gromit makes toast for Wallace, and Wallace declares "Cracking toast Gromit !", meaning really good. The phrase has now become firmly lodged in the language over here, and is often used to say that anything is good, or a good idea. The words 'cracking' and 'Gromit' are also used on their own, like I did, for much the same purpose. For what it's worth, although I enjoyed "Curse", for me, the best ones are still the original TV 'shorts' that were turned out by Nick Parks each Christmas. Have you seen them all ? I think that "The Wrong Trousers" is my favourite. All of the story twists and turns are so well observed. Arfa |
#33
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Arfa Daily wrote:
Just so ! In Wallace and Gromit - A Fine Day Out, Gromit makes toast for Wallace, and Wallace declares "Cracking toast Gromit !", meaning really good. The phrase has now become firmly lodged in the language over here, and is often used to say that anything is good, or a good idea. The words 'cracking' and 'Gromit' are also used on their own, like I did, for much the same purpose. For what it's worth, although I enjoyed "Curse", for me, the best ones are still the original TV 'shorts' that were turned out by Nick Parks each Christmas. Have you seen them all ? Some, but I don't know how many were made. I saw them when I had Direct TV, but with this 20 channel basic Cable service there is very little, other than local channels. I think that "The Wrong Trousers" is my favourite. That was a good one. All of the story twists and turns are so well observed. Arfa -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#34
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... "Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message ... On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT, Arfa Daily wrote: I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time. Do you suppose that joint went out and bought Top Dollar CFLs, or the very cheapest -- like their toilet paper? :-) snip Well, I have to say that I had no complaint with their toilet paper. They actually use Quilted Northern, which is what I buy myself, when I stay in a private place in Florida. Not being a native American, I have no idea whether this is considered to be a laughable 'cheapo' brand over there, but it seems to compare pretty reasonably with the brand that I usually buy here, which is *not* a cheap and cheerful one. .... At least pre-moistened toilet paper never caught on over here. I see ASDA is now selling "recycled toilet tissue" Some local trivia and lavatorial humour, thrown together by your's truly http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/graff.htm |
#37
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article 39,
bz wrote: wrote in news:23303-477D5872-1992@storefull- 3258.bay.webtv.net: Energy Saving Bulbs 'Can Cause Migranes' Warn Experts. www.standeyo.com .......Larry Slightly different CFL 'headache'. Wife bought a couple of 4 packs of '40 watt equivalent' CFL bulbs [mfgr unknown]. I put 3 of them in a fixture in the kitchen. Even with the kitchen dimmer at minimum, and the other kitchen lights very dim, the CFLs are almost full brightness. Shows that they are rather efficient but dimming them may be a bit of a headache. Of course. Their inbuilt power supply tries to overcome any waveform modification a dimmer produces. And you're lucky the dimmer survived. Also, I note that the package warns about possible radio frequency interference and advises not to use near vital communications equipment. Argh! I am going to look for some LED lights. Which will produce even more nasty light than CFLs. There are more productive ways of saving energy at home without having to pay the price of inferior results. -- *I don't work here. I'm a consultant Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#38
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
In article 39, bz wrote:
wrote in news:23303-477D5872-1992@storefull- 3258.bay.webtv.net: Energy Saving Bulbs 'Can Cause Migranes' Warn Experts. www.standeyo.com .......Larry Slightly different CFL 'headache'. Wife bought a couple of 4 packs of '40 watt equivalent' CFL bulbs [mfgr unknown]. I put 3 of them in a fixture in the kitchen. Even with the kitchen dimmer at minimum, and the other kitchen lights very dim, the CFLs are almost full brightness. Shows that they are rather efficient but dimming them may be a bit of a headache. Also, I note that the package warns about possible radio frequency interference and advises not to use near vital communications equipment. Argh! I am going to look for some LED lights. The dimmable CFL's typicall cost $15 to $20 ea. Most packages clearly indicate what type they are. greg |
#39
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
I have one CFL light bulb in my kitchen and one in my bathroom, I never
turn those two lights off.I use them only because they last for years.The other light bulbs in my house are General Electric Reveal incandescent light bulbs.In my opinion, CFL light bulbs should be outlawed in America. cuhulin |
#40
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Bit OT. CFLs revisited.
wrote in message ... I have one CFL light bulb in my kitchen and one in my bathroom, I never turn those two lights off.I use them only because they last for years.The other light bulbs in my house are General Electric Reveal incandescent light bulbs.In my opinion, CFL light bulbs should be outlawed in America. cuhulin In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly, just as the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of incandescents, a movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of the great unwashed ( and the dumb politicians ) the potential hazards of using, accidentally breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely hope that it gains sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this dreadful knee-jerk technology, to knock its viability as a direct replacement for incandescents, firmly on the head ... Arfa |
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