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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article ,
"Arfa Daily" wrote:

I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa


I'm with you there. Halogens, too. I love halogen light. I'm a
conservationist and an environmentalist from way back, but I think there
are more suitable ways to save energy. I just hope that the form factor
doesn't change, so that lamps and repair parts will remain available for
my incandescent bulbs.
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

On Dec 30, 8:49*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the

same big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last

there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room

lighting over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when

you come in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at

a time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out

some light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance,

the colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the

light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots,

for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form

factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these

output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth

bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple

of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this

is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my

country (UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by

banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on

enough light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa


The US congress is also talking aout MANDATING CFLs because of the
energy use - translate: Global Warming.
We have a house as full of them as possible and I don't give a hoot
about GW but we DO care about the electric bill. In southen CA
electric rate is $0.25/ KWh so anything that helps is OK by me. There
is a large difference between CFLs from different manufacturers, the
old Philips taking a few seceond to even BEGIN to light and then a
minute to come up to full brilliance. OTOH its one of the first ones I
bought 7 years ago and still going strong. Be aware that some are only
rated to have the base down and unenclosed and they do fail FAST if
you don't follow the instructions.

When light bulbs are outlawed only outlaws......

Happy New Year
GG
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 8:49 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the

same big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last

there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room

lighting over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when

you come in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at

a time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out

some light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance,

the colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the

light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots,

for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form

factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these

output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth

bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple

of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this

is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my

country (UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by

banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on

enough light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa


The US congress is also talking aout MANDATING CFLs because of the
energy use - translate: Global Warming.
We have a house as full of them as possible and I don't give a hoot
about GW but we DO care about the electric bill. In southen CA
electric rate is $0.25/ KWh so anything that helps is OK by me. There
is a large difference between CFLs from different manufacturers, the
old Philips taking a few seceond to even BEGIN to light and then a
minute to come up to full brilliance. OTOH its one of the first ones I
bought 7 years ago and still going strong. Be aware that some are only
rated to have the base down and unenclosed and they do fail FAST if
you don't follow the instructions.

When light bulbs are outlawed only outlaws......

Happy New Year
GG

I'm with you on the GW thing. I think that there's enough evidence to make
the case for it being man-made, dubious at very best. Also, like Smitty, I
think that there are better ways to save. As far as it being an economics
thing, I would guess that is why a 3000 room hotel in Vegas is going over to
them. I can't imagine the corporation that owns this particular hotel ( and
50% of the others on the Strip ) actually caring too much about the eco
aspect. But I really think that these lamps need to get a lot better *in
general* to make mandating their use a truly viable option. I am sure that
there are some very good ones at the leading edge of the technology, but the
ones that I encountered in this particular hotel, sure as hell didn't fall
into any category down at the 'acceptable' end of the scale, let alone the
'good' end.

On the other hand, I did see some stunning examples of the latest LED
technology. You can always see new forms of this in use in Vegas, and a lot
of the hotels seem to be going over to LED floodlamps for their properties,
with spectacularly good results. The Venetian has just completed a new
accommodation tower, which was due to open a few days after we left. During
the last couple of days that we were there, they were carrying out
commissioning tests on the new LED giant TV screen outside. Now there are a
lot of these down The Strip, but this one was so bright, it was blinding.
I'm sure that once they can get the CRI right for making LED based
'incandescent-look-alike' bulbs, they will quickly knock CFLs off their
shaky eco-perch.

Arfa


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

All right, Arfa? Good to have you back.

Yeah, I don't have answers to your questions, but I do know what
you mean about those bulbs. The aging CFL I've got in my bedroom is
utterly appalling; it takes ages to brigten up; sometimes I've walked
past the bedroom having just got up, and thought I hadn't actually
turned the thing on, it's been that dark! I mean, I could just buy a new
one, but I never remember!

What is the mechanism by which they take so long to get going? Is it
some mercury vapour thing whereby the mercury takes ages to go into
gas phase? As you can tell, I have no idea what's going on inside
these bulbs. I thought the pressure was so low that the mercury was
always gaseous even at room temperature, but I'm not sure. That's
pretty embarrassing.

And is the warm-up time affected by age? I don't see how it should be,
but I don't think they're that bad when new. It does seem to be
age-fellated. RELATED. Sorry - she's gone now.

Also, how is it that the light output diminishes with bulb age?

Cheers, anyway.

Martin - not the brightest bulb on the xmas tree
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie




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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If
you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably
won't be annoyed by that.
Incandescent lamps produce an extremely broad range of light
frequencies, which is part of the reason they are so inefficient.
Fluorescent lamps produce a narrower range which tends to be heavy at
the blue end of the spectrum unless special phosphors are used, and
those fade faster than the "blue" ones. LED lights are narrowest yet,
leaving one feeling slightly color-blind.
My reading light and my bathroom light are going to stay incandescent as
long as I can get them that way.
I'm looking forward to seeing, in wide-screen high definition, the
results of Hollywood stars dressing under LED lamps.
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

none wrote:

I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If
you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably
won't be annoyed by that.



Have you heard the RF trash radiated from some of the LED traffic
lights?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

"none" wrote in message
t...

Incandescent lamps produce an extremely broad range of light
frequencies, which is part of the reason they are so inefficient.


But tungsten-halogen lamps are incandescent, and significantly
more-efficient than conventional incandescent lamps, because they operate at
a higher temperature, and convert more heat into visible light.


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is
the sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my
country (UK) and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to
accept by banning sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be
stocking up on enough light bulbs to see my days out ...


There are some reasonable CFLs out there - but I'd not expect to see them
in an hotel room. They mean you to suffer while you save energy - and them
money.

The GEC RO80 size I use in the workshop inspection light is very good - at
least as bright as a 100 watt and the colour rendering passable. But it
cost over 15 gbp...

--
*Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
none wrote:

I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If
you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably
won't be annoyed by that.



Have you heard the RF trash radiated from some of the LED traffic
lights?


LEDs as such don't produce any RF but some types of drivers for them do.

--
*Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
All right, Arfa? Good to have you back.

Yeah, I don't have answers to your questions, but I do know what
you mean about those bulbs. The aging CFL I've got in my bedroom is
utterly appalling; it takes ages to brigten up; sometimes I've walked
past the bedroom having just got up, and thought I hadn't actually
turned the thing on, it's been that dark! I mean, I could just buy a new
one, but I never remember!

What is the mechanism by which they take so long to get going? Is it
some mercury vapour thing whereby the mercury takes ages to go into
gas phase? As you can tell, I have no idea what's going on inside
these bulbs. I thought the pressure was so low that the mercury was
always gaseous even at room temperature, but I'm not sure. That's
pretty embarrassing.

And is the warm-up time affected by age? I don't see how it should be,
but I don't think they're that bad when new. It does seem to be
age-fellated. RELATED. Sorry - she's gone now.

Also, how is it that the light output diminishes with bulb age?

Cheers, anyway.


Hi Fleetie - good to hear from you. Trust all is well with you ? Go have a
look at

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html

It might help you out with the concept and operation of these dreadful
devices.

Happy new year to ya, and stay in touch. Always glad to see you pop up on
here.

Arfa


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same
big name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there
a year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting
over to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you
come in the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at
a time. When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out
some light, the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first
glance, the colour temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to
incandescent, the light actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to
it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these
output, again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth
bothering about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a
couple of nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough
light bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa



I find that the light quality from CFLs varies widely, some are junk, some
are quite good. I no longer use any standard incandescent lamps in my house
and haven't in years, I do have a few Halogena lamps in decorative fixtures,
as far as I know, the ban does not apply to those.

I still despise an outright ban on anything of the sort, tax them, fine, but
keep them available. It's not possible to forsee all the niche applications
where they will still be needed.

Of course I recently resurrected a nice old 2 stage vacuum pump and I found
a place that sells tungsten wire so maybe I can just make my own lightbulbs
if it comes to that


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


What is the mechanism by which they take so long to get going? Is it
some mercury vapour thing whereby the mercury takes ages to go into
gas phase? As you can tell, I have no idea what's going on inside
these bulbs. I thought the pressure was so low that the mercury was
always gaseous even at room temperature, but I'm not sure. That's
pretty embarrassing.



The higher power/more compact CFLs use a mercury amalgam instead of pure
mercury in an effort to control vapor pressure over a wide range of tube
temperature. The result is that when the lamp is cold, very little mercury
is vaporized and very little light is produced. For some reason some lamps
are considerably worse with this than others, to the point of being useless
for most indoor lighting, and yes, they do tend to get worse with age. I
have some excellent CFLs, but I've also had some junky ones.


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
none wrote:

I've also noticed that some CFLs emit radio-frequency interference. If
you're not a ham radio operator or a listener to AM radio, you probably
won't be annoyed by that.


Have you heard the RF trash radiated from some of the LED traffic
lights?


LEDs as such don't produce any RF but some types of drivers for them do.



Yes, Dave. I am VERY aware of that. One of the problems of
selecting SMPS for our line of US $20,000 to $80,000 Telemetry receivers
was their radiated noise. About 95% of the samples were rejected for
this reason. The noise sounds like a bad SMPS, and the noise is carried
on the power lines for about two miles, from each of the new lights.
That leaves VERY few places that you can listen to AM or shortwave. The
Vicor supplies were quiet, but had a horrible failure rate.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article , Arfa Daily
writes

I for one, will be stocking up on enough light
bulbs to see my days out ...


Snap. Somerfield were selling boxes of 10 60W incandescent for a quid,
so I stocked up with enough for the next 20 years.

--
(\__/) Bunny says NO to Windows Vista!
(='.'=) http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html
(")_(")



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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

James Sweet wrote:


Of course I recently resurrected a nice old 2 stage vacuum pump and I found
a place that sells tungsten wire so maybe I can just make my own lightbulbs
if it comes to that



Hmmm, a refiliament service? good idea if you could do some stage
lighting bubbles, they can cost £75 each!


Ron(UK)

--
Lune Valley Audio
Public Address Systems
Hire Sales Maintenance
www.lunevalleyaudio.com
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same

big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come

in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some

light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the

colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these

output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country (UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough

light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa



For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article ,
N Cook wrote:
For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.


Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter
can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-)

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same

big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting
over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come

in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a
time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some

light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the

colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form
factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these

output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country
(UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough

light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa



For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.


Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out
of them ... d;~}

Arfa


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
N Cook wrote:
For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.


Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter
can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-)


For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set
there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really
easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent
lamps.

http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99

It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing
really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to
compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED.

Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

Rich Webb wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
N Cook wrote:
For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint
over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.


Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter
can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-)


For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set
there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really
easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent
lamps.

http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99

It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing
really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to
compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED.

Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately.



News just in, as they say http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7167860.stm

Ron(UK)
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the

same
big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there

a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting
over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you

come
in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a
time.
When the rotten things have finally warmed up enough to give out some

light,
the room appears dingy and uninviting. Although at first glance, the

colour
temperature and CRI look a 'reasonable' match to incandescent, the

light
actually has a most unpleasant 'sick' quality to it.

Above the beds, there are standard 'large format' reflector spots, for
reading. These have now been replaced by lamps with a similar form
factor,
but which contain a double spiral CFL element. The light that these

output,
again once they have warmed up enough to produce light worth bothering
about, is singularly unsuitable for reading by, and after a couple of
nights, I gave up trying.

Now if this is the level that the technology has reached, and this is

the
sort of product that forthcoming government legislation in my country
(UK)
and several others I believe, is aiming to force us to accept by

banning
sales of incandescents, then I for one, will be stocking up on enough

light
bulbs to see my days out ...

Arfa



For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint

over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.


Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out
of them ... d;~}

Arfa



I just tried a red broad felt tip pen on half a CFL.
Gave a poor streaky finish but certainly a much improved red caste on
that side, but noticeably reduced brightness, so horses for courses.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/





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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT, Arfa Daily wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a time.


Do you suppose that joint went out and bought Top Dollar CFLs, or the
very cheapest -- like their toilet paper? :-)

One thing I noticed is that, since they last so much longer than an
incandescent, they get dusty/dirty! I had ocassion to clean the
decorative glass shields on the light fixture above the bathroom mirror.

It was a 'rack assembly' with 4 lights. I had to unscrew the CFLs to
get the glass shields out. So, as long as I had to handle them anyway,
I used a damp, soapy rag to wipe down the tubes of each CFL. The dust
and grime being removed was quite apparent as I did it. And, upon
reassembly, the light in the room _was_ noticably brighter.

Incandescents just don't often last that long to get that grimy.

Jonesy
--
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38.24N 104.55W | @ config.com | Jonesy | OS/2
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For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.



That will just make things worse. Compact fluorescent lamps all use
trichromatic phosphors, they emit in fairly narrow peaks in blue, green, and
reddish orange, you can't create wavelengths that aren't there with filters.

Highest CRI I've seen from a compact lamp is 82, though you can get linear
lamps with 90+ CRI but they're slightly less efficient.


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In article ,
Allodoxaphobia wrote:
Incandescents just don't often last that long to get that grimy.


I've got two PAR38 150 watt lamps in downlighters either side of the
window which are on most nights - albeit via a dimmer. And they're about
20 years old. Removed once in a while for cleaning.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

"Rich Webb" wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
N Cook wrote:
For your own personal use.
Assuming your lamps are bright enough, then you could always mix up some
varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to make a weak colour wash to paint over
your CFLs to adjust the colouration to your own taste.


Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter
can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-)


For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set
there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really
easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent
lamps.

http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99

It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing
really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to
compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED.

Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately.


I have a nice spectrometer-grade grating, but you CAN just use one
of the transparent (unsilvered) blank CDs that you often get at
the top of a stack of recordable CD blanks, and just look through it.

The red response from CFLs is interesting. The red is quite
narrowband from what I've seen. It also is in CRT TVs. The latter
use a yttrium compound to produce red, I believe.

For good colour rendition, you need a nice broad, continuous
spectrum, from far-red to far-blue.

You COULD produce "white" using just a red laser, a green one,
and a blue one (i.e. all VERY narrowband) so you've effectively
got just 3 wavelengths present! BUT the colour rendition would
be AWFUL if you used it as room illumination, AND you could come
up with coloured cards, or filters, that looked (say) green in
sunlight, and looked TOTALLY BLACK under this laser "white" light -
for obvious reasons.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie


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You COULD produce "white" using just a red laser, a green one,
and a blue one (i.e. all VERY narrowband) so you've effectively
got just 3 wavelengths present! BUT the colour rendition would
be AWFUL if you used it as room illumination, AND you could come
up with coloured cards, or filters, that looked (say) green in
sunlight, and looked TOTALLY BLACK under this laser "white" light -
for obvious reasons.



It won't look totally black, colored cards or filters are not nearly narrow
enough for that, but the color rendering will not be perfect if the emission
bands don't exactly match the sensors in the eye. You can in fact have very
good color rendition with three fairly narrow emitters, but the problem is
finding a good red phosphor. The modern Yttrium based phosphor used in color
CRTs and trichromatic fluoescent lamps is orange-red, rather than a pure
deep red. It's much more efficient and longer lasting than the old true red
phosphor but the CRI will not exceed the mid 80s using it.

Generally speaking, a light source that does a good job rendering reds will
have good all around color rendition, red is the hard part.


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"James Sweet" wrote
It won't look totally black, colored cards or filters are not nearly narrow enough for that, but the color rendering will not be
perfect if the emission bands don't exactly match the sensors in the eye.


I disagree a bit, but this is indeed a very complex field. As you say,
there are also the response curves of the eye's sensors to consider, but
in this case, IF you could find a narrowband-ISH (say) green filter that
looked green in sunlight, but whose green peak didn't match the (e.g. 532nm)
wavelength of the green laser, it'd look damn near black.

Actually I first thought about this a long time ago, and it's something
I'd love to try!

Mostly unrelated, but I believe that the eye's "red" sensor doesn't actually
peak in what we call "red". It's more orange, IIRC. It's just that the other
2 sensors drop off so much "earlier" (as lambda increases), that at the red end
of visible, that's the only one with ANY response, so we do get a different
unique overall perceived colour (i.e. what we think of as "deep red").

Also, there's the thing about the eye's "red" sensor also having response in
far-blue/violet, which leads to the confusing things that happen when we look
at sources in that part of the spectum, as well as the confusion that arises
between violet/purple.

It's interesting stuff!


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article ,
Rich Webb wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
N Cook wrote:
For your own personal use. Assuming your lamps are bright enough,
then you could always mix up some varnish and some red + ? dye/ink to
make a weak colour wash to paint over your CFLs to adjust the
colouration to your own taste.


Problem with these lamps is often holes in the spectrum which a filter
can't really cure. And they're dim enough already. ;-)


For the curious, the non-believers, and the "I need a new geek toy" set
there's a very inexpensive "student" spectrometer that makes it really
easy to see just how discrete the spectra is (are?) on many florescent
lamps.


http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=99


It's kind of flimsy (vacuum-formed plastic shell) but the damned thing
really works. Quite interesting (Must. Resist. "Eye-opening") to
compare a narrow CFL spectrum to a white LED.


There's no such thing as a 'white' LED. And even the closest is far far
worse than a decent fluorescent.

Don't know of a UK source, unfortunately.


--
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT, Arfa Daily wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the same
big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting
over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you come
in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a
time.


Do you suppose that joint went out and bought Top Dollar CFLs, or the
very cheapest -- like their toilet paper? :-)

snip

Well, I have to say that I had no complaint with their toilet paper. They
actually use Quilted Northern, which is what I buy myself, when I stay in a
private place in Florida. Not being a native American, I have no idea
whether this is considered to be a laughable 'cheapo' brand over there, but
it seems to compare pretty reasonably with the brand that I usually buy
here, which is *not* a cheap and cheerful one. So I'm not sure what that
says about the CFLs that they are using. I don't expect for one minute that
they will be the most expensive ones that you can get, but by the same
token, with the buying power that an organisation like MGM / Mirage have
got, there is no reason to suspect that they would be bottom end Dollar
Store jobs either. If in fact they are, then I think that they will quickly
run into trouble with failures.

However, the basic point that I was making was how that just by changing the
room's lighting, they have made what was a perfectly acceptable room, in
which you were able to read at night, into a dim depressing cave. Perhaps
the hope is that you will spend more time in the casino, and less in the
room ... ;~}

Arfa




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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

Arfa Daily wrote:

Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming out
of them ... d;~}



Gromit? I just picked up a DVD of "Wallace & Gromit", "The Curse of
the Were-Rabbit"


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

Wot a cracking idea, Gromit ! I could then have even LESS light coming
out
of them ... d;~}



Gromit? I just picked up a DVD of "Wallace & Gromit", "The Curse of
the Were-Rabbit"



Just so ! In Wallace and Gromit - A Fine Day Out, Gromit makes toast for
Wallace, and Wallace declares "Cracking toast Gromit !", meaning really
good. The phrase has now become firmly lodged in the language over here, and
is often used to say that anything is good, or a good idea. The words
'cracking' and 'Gromit' are also used on their own, like I did, for much the
same purpose. For what it's worth, although I enjoyed "Curse", for me, the
best ones are still the original TV 'shorts' that were turned out by Nick
Parks each Christmas. Have you seen them all ? I think that "The Wrong
Trousers" is my favourite. All of the story twists and turns are so well
observed.

Arfa


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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

Arfa Daily wrote:

Just so ! In Wallace and Gromit - A Fine Day Out, Gromit makes toast for
Wallace, and Wallace declares "Cracking toast Gromit !", meaning really
good. The phrase has now become firmly lodged in the language over here, and
is often used to say that anything is good, or a good idea. The words
'cracking' and 'Gromit' are also used on their own, like I did, for much the
same purpose. For what it's worth, although I enjoyed "Curse", for me, the
best ones are still the original TV 'shorts' that were turned out by Nick
Parks each Christmas. Have you seen them all ?



Some, but I don't know how many were made. I saw them when I had
Direct TV, but with this 20 channel basic Cable service there is very
little, other than local channels.


I think that "The Wrong Trousers" is my favourite.



That was a good one.


All of the story twists and turns are so well observed.

Arfa



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:49:38 GMT, Arfa Daily wrote:
I have just returned from a Christmas trip to Vegas, staying in the

same
big
name Strip-side hotel that I always do. However, since I was last there

a
year ago, they seem to have had a big drive to turn the room lighting
over
to CFLs. Now, instead of getting a decent light in the room when you

come
in
the door, it's like someone is going round lighting candles one at a
time.


Do you suppose that joint went out and bought Top Dollar CFLs, or the
very cheapest -- like their toilet paper? :-)

snip

Well, I have to say that I had no complaint with their toilet paper. They
actually use Quilted Northern, which is what I buy myself, when I stay in

a
private place in Florida. Not being a native American, I have no idea
whether this is considered to be a laughable 'cheapo' brand over there,

but
it seems to compare pretty reasonably with the brand that I usually buy
here, which is *not* a cheap and cheerful one.


....

At least pre-moistened toilet paper never caught on over here.
I see ASDA is now selling "recycled toilet tissue"

Some local trivia and lavatorial humour, thrown together by your's truly
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/graff.htm



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Energy Saving Bulbs 'Can Cause Migranes' Warn Experts.
www.standeyo.com

.......Larry



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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

wrote in news:23303-477D5872-1992@storefull-
3258.bay.webtv.net:

Energy Saving Bulbs 'Can Cause Migranes' Warn Experts.
www.standeyo.com

.......Larry


Slightly different CFL 'headache'.

Wife bought a couple of 4 packs of '40 watt equivalent' CFL bulbs [mfgr
unknown].

I put 3 of them in a fixture in the kitchen.
Even with the kitchen dimmer at minimum, and the other kitchen lights very
dim, the CFLs are almost full brightness.

Shows that they are rather efficient but dimming them may be a bit of a
headache.

Also, I note that the package warns about possible radio frequency
interference and advises not to use near vital communications equipment.

Argh!

I am going to look for some LED lights.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

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In article 39,
bz wrote:
wrote in news:23303-477D5872-1992@storefull-
3258.bay.webtv.net:


Energy Saving Bulbs 'Can Cause Migranes' Warn Experts.
www.standeyo.com

.......Larry


Slightly different CFL 'headache'.


Wife bought a couple of 4 packs of '40 watt equivalent' CFL bulbs [mfgr
unknown].


I put 3 of them in a fixture in the kitchen. Even with the kitchen
dimmer at minimum, and the other kitchen lights very dim, the CFLs are
almost full brightness.


Shows that they are rather efficient but dimming them may be a bit of a
headache.


Of course. Their inbuilt power supply tries to overcome any waveform
modification a dimmer produces. And you're lucky the dimmer survived.

Also, I note that the package warns about possible radio frequency
interference and advises not to use near vital communications equipment.


Argh!


I am going to look for some LED lights.


Which will produce even more nasty light than CFLs. There are more
productive ways of saving energy at home without having to pay the price
of inferior results.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Default Bit OT. CFLs revisited.

In article 39, bz wrote:
wrote in news:23303-477D5872-1992@storefull-
3258.bay.webtv.net:

Energy Saving Bulbs 'Can Cause Migranes' Warn Experts.
www.standeyo.com

.......Larry


Slightly different CFL 'headache'.

Wife bought a couple of 4 packs of '40 watt equivalent' CFL bulbs [mfgr
unknown].

I put 3 of them in a fixture in the kitchen.
Even with the kitchen dimmer at minimum, and the other kitchen lights very
dim, the CFLs are almost full brightness.

Shows that they are rather efficient but dimming them may be a bit of a
headache.

Also, I note that the package warns about possible radio frequency
interference and advises not to use near vital communications equipment.

Argh!

I am going to look for some LED lights.


The dimmable CFL's typicall cost $15 to $20 ea. Most packages clearly indicate
what type they are.

greg
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I have one CFL light bulb in my kitchen and one in my bathroom, I never
turn those two lights off.I use them only because they last for
years.The other light bulbs in my house are General Electric Reveal
incandescent light bulbs.In my opinion, CFL light bulbs should be
outlawed in America.
cuhulin

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wrote in message
...
I have one CFL light bulb in my kitchen and one in my bathroom, I never
turn those two lights off.I use them only because they last for
years.The other light bulbs in my house are General Electric Reveal
incandescent light bulbs.In my opinion, CFL light bulbs should be
outlawed in America.
cuhulin


In my opinion, they should be outlawed world-wide. Period. Suddenly, just as
the government here in the UK looks set to ban sales of incandescents, a
movement is rearing up to bring to the attention of the great unwashed ( and
the dumb politicians ) the potential hazards of using, accidentally
breaking, and safely disposing of CFLs. I sincerely hope that it gains
sufficient momentum to cast enough doubt over this dreadful knee-jerk
technology, to knock its viability as a direct replacement for
incandescents, firmly on the head ...

Arfa


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