As a follow-up to my recent post on minimum bedroom sizes; I want to
create a bedroom by moving the bathroom to an internal room, and the
major issue with doing this seems to involve moving the toilet.
Could the panel let me know if there's a flaw in my plan?

The new loo will basically be advanced forward from the current
location by about 6 feet, then right about 4 feet, where it will be in
the middle of the bathroom, against a stud partition (behind which is
the middle of the old bathroom, soon to be a bedroom). I want to take
the soil pipe straight back from the loo, through/under the partition,
and between the new bedroom floor and the ceiling below, parallel to
the joists, and through the external wall, where it will emerge 6 feet
away from the old exit point. It will join the soil stack at the same
place as before.

I reckon I'll have enough fall on the soil pipe as it runs under the
bedroom floor; but if not I could always break through the ceiling
below (a kitchen; OK?) which is pretty high and very poor condition,
and could easily take a suspended ceiling 3 or 4 inches lower.

At the moment the bit that most worries me is how to connect the
toilet to the soilpipe under the bedroom floor. Should the loo have a
vertical or horizontal soil pipe exit?; am I likely to be able to bury
it all in the 4" stud partition and/or under the floor? Are there
ways to do this (other than Saniflow - no thanks!) which I don't know
about? Unfortunately because this is a corner terrace there is very
little outside wall at the back of the house to play with, so I can't
site the toilet in a corner, which would allow boxing in of the soil
pipe in the bathroom or bedroom. It has to traverse the bedroom in
the middle.

Hope I've explained the problem and the layout clearly! Thanks for
any advice. (Watch for my follow up in a few weeks on ventilation
requirements!)

David

David wrote:

As a follow-up to my recent post on minimum bedroom sizes; I want to
create a bedroom by moving the bathroom to an internal room, and the
major issue with doing this seems to involve moving the toilet.
Could the panel let me know if there's a flaw in my plan?

The new loo will basically be advanced forward from the current
location by about 6 feet, then right about 4 feet, where it will be in
the middle of the bathroom, against a stud partition (behind which is
the middle of the old bathroom, soon to be a bedroom). I want to take
the soil pipe straight back from the loo, through/under the partition,
and between the new bedroom floor and the ceiling below, parallel to
the joists, and through the external wall, where it will emerge 6 feet
away from the old exit point. It will join the soil stack at the same
place as before.

I reckon I'll have enough fall on the soil pipe as it runs under the
bedroom floor; but if not I could always break through the ceiling
below (a kitchen; OK?) which is pretty high and very poor condition,
and could easily take a suspended ceiling 3 or 4 inches lower.

At the moment the bit that most worries me is how to connect the
toilet to the soilpipe under the bedroom floor. Should the loo have a
vertical or horizontal soil pipe exit?; am I likely to be able to bury
it all in the 4" stud partition and/or under the floor? Are there
ways to do this (other than Saniflow - no thanks!) which I don't know
about? Unfortunately because this is a corner terrace there is very
little outside wall at the back of the house to play with, so I can't
site the toilet in a corner, which would allow boxing in of the soil
pipe in the bathroom or bedroom. It has to traverse the bedroom in
the middle.

Hope I've explained the problem and the layout clearly! Thanks for
any advice. (Watch for my follow up in a few weeks on ventilation
requirements!)

David


This was covered elsewhere. You need IMHO a horizontal outlet from the
pan to get as much height as possible, and an overall run with at least
a 1:60 slope. I'd advise running basin/bath wastes seperately. Pipe must
be 4". You are supposed to have a rodding eye where it bends 9o degrees
- essentially outside in your cae.

The Natural Philosopher wrote in message ...
David wrote:

The new loo will basically be advanced forward from the current
location by about 6 feet, then right about 4 feet, where it will be in
the middle of the bathroom, against a stud partition (behind which is
the middle of the old bathroom, soon to be a bedroom). I want to take
the soil pipe straight back from the loo, through/under the partition,
and between the new bedroom floor and the ceiling below, parallel to
the joists, and through the external wall, where it will emerge 6 feet
away from the old exit point. It will join the soil stack at the same
place as before.

I reckon I'll have enough fall on the soil pipe as it runs under the
bedroom floor; but if not I could always break through the ceiling
below (a kitchen; OK?) which is pretty high and very poor condition,
and could easily take a suspended ceiling 3 or 4 inches lower.

At the moment the bit that most worries me is how to connect the
toilet to the soilpipe under the bedroom floor. Should the loo have a
vertical or horizontal soil pipe exit?; am I likely to be able to bury
it all in the 4" stud partition and/or under the floor? Are there
ways to do this (other than Saniflow - no thanks!) which I don't know
about? Unfortunately because this is a corner terrace there is very
little outside wall at the back of the house to play with, so I can't
site the toilet in a corner, which would allow boxing in of the soil
pipe in the bathroom or bedroom. It has to traverse the bedroom in
the middle.

Hope I've explained the problem and the layout clearly! Thanks for
any advice. (Watch for my follow up in a few weeks on ventilation
requirements!)

This was covered elsewhere. You need IMHO a horizontal outlet from the
pan to get as much height as possible, and an overall run with at least
a 1:60 slope. I'd advise running basin/bath wastes seperately. Pipe must
be 4". You are supposed to have a rodding eye where it bends 9o degrees
- essentially outside in your cae.

Thanks NP - yes, I read several threads about this before posting, but
couldn't find anything about my specific issue of going through the
stud partition, in the middle of the room. I'd already worked out
that a fall of no more than 2" across the bedroom should be OK; I
think the problem is really how to get the pipe down through the
partition to below floor level in the first place without encroaching
on the bedroom...

Regards
David

David wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote in message
...
David wrote:

The new loo will basically be advanced forward from the current
location by about 6 feet, then right about 4 feet, where it will be
in
the middle of the bathroom, against a stud partition (behind which
is
the middle of the old bathroom, soon to be a bedroom). I want to
take
the soil pipe straight back from the loo, through/under the
partition,
and between the new bedroom floor and the ceiling below, parallel to
the joists, and through the external wall, where it will emerge 6
feet away from the old exit point. It will join the soil stack at
the same place as before.

I reckon I'll have enough fall on the soil pipe as it runs under the
bedroom floor; but if not I could always break through the ceiling
below (a kitchen; OK?) which is pretty high and very poor condition,
and could easily take a suspended ceiling 3 or 4 inches lower.

At the moment the bit that most worries me is how to connect the
toilet to the soilpipe under the bedroom floor. Should the loo
have a vertical or horizontal soil pipe exit?; am I likely to be
able to bury
it all in the 4" stud partition and/or under the floor? Are there
ways to do this (other than Saniflow - no thanks!) which I don't
know about? Unfortunately because this is a corner terrace there
is very little outside wall at the back of the house to play with,
so I can't
site the toilet in a corner, which would allow boxing in of the soil
pipe in the bathroom or bedroom. It has to traverse the bedroom in
the middle.

Hope I've explained the problem and the layout clearly! Thanks for
any advice. (Watch for my follow up in a few weeks on ventilation
requirements!)

This was covered elsewhere. You need IMHO a horizontal outlet from
the
pan to get as much height as possible, and an overall run with at
least
a 1:60 slope. I'd advise running basin/bath wastes seperately. Pipe
must
be 4". You are supposed to have a rodding eye where it bends 9o
degrees - essentially outside in your cae.

Thanks NP - yes, I read several threads about this before posting, but
couldn't find anything about my specific issue of going through the
stud partition, in the middle of the room. I'd already worked out
that a fall of no more than 2" across the bedroom should be OK; I
think the problem is really how to get the pipe down through the
partition to below floor level in the first place without encroaching
on the bedroom...

Regards
David

If your partition wall is not thick enough for the soil pipe then obviously
it will have to be external to the wall.
I assume your toilet is to be a modern low level suite and not a hidden
cistern?
If you already have the toilet and the exit is horizontal there should be
enough space between it and the back of the cistern for a vertical pipe with
a 90 deg bend at the top anyway esp if you use a "space saver" coupler.
If you have yet to buy the toilet, consider a vertical outlet one.

"BillR" wrote in message ...
David wrote:

Thanks NP - yes, I read several threads about this before posting, but
couldn't find anything about my specific issue of going through the
stud partition, in the middle of the room. I'd already worked out
that a fall of no more than 2" across the bedroom should be OK; I
think the problem is really how to get the pipe down through the
partition to below floor level in the first place without encroaching
on the bedroom...

If your partition wall is not thick enough for the soil pipe then obviously
it will have to be external to the wall.
I assume your toilet is to be a modern low level suite and not a hidden
cistern?
If you already have the toilet and the exit is horizontal there should be
enough space between it and the back of the cistern for a vertical pipe with
a 90 deg bend at the top anyway esp if you use a "space saver" coupler.
If you have yet to buy the toilet, consider a vertical outlet one.

We do have a toilet (reasonably new, staandard low level), with
horizontal pan outlet, but am prepared to replace it with one having a
vertical outlet if that's what it takes; and it sounds like it might.
Might depend on what's below the floor under the partition I suppose
(sorry I'm a bit vague but I don't actually get the keys to the place
till the weekend! - so watch this space for a panicked posting on
Saturday!)

David

(David) wrote in message . com...
As a follow-up to my recent post on minimum bedroom sizes; I want to
create a bedroom by moving the bathroom to an internal room, and the
major issue with doing this seems to involve moving the toilet.
Could the panel let me know if there's a flaw in my plan?

Further to the above, another issue I have is the fact that the
existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated in
the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what?

My plan is to build a cupboard around the boiler, and probably to put
up a new, small, stud partition alongside it such that the boiler will
be located in a cupboard at the end of the landing rather than in what
will be a bedroom. Are there any pitfalls (ventilation, regulations
etc?) which I need to be aware of, eg having a boiler in the bedroom
or landing? It's a combi job (Sime Friendly Format 100E).

Thanks
David

(David) wrote in message . com...

As a follow-up to my recent post on minimum bedroom sizes; I want to
create a bedroom by moving the bathroom to an internal room, and the
major issue with doing this seems to involve moving the toilet.
Could the panel let me know if there's a flaw in my plan?

I sure hope there's a floor in your plan, as using the loo with no
floor is a dodgy business.

Further to the above, another issue I have is the fact that the
existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated in
the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what?

Simple way to use space efficiently.

My plan is to build a cupboard around the boiler, and probably to put
up a new, small, stud partition alongside it such that the boiler will
be located in a cupboard at the end of the landing rather than in what
will be a bedroom. Are there any pitfalls (ventilation, regulations
etc?) which I need to be aware of, eg having a boiler in the bedroom
or landing? It's a combi job (Sime Friendly Format 100E).


Boiler in bedroom is fine, but be aware they put out a lot of heat,
acting like a radiator. When you chop up your room you're gonig to
change the heat distribution, just be aware of that and plan for some
sensible balance.

I just re-read: you will presumably need a good dose of cupboard
ventilation.


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote
| Further to the above, another issue I have is the fact that the
| existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated in
| the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what?
| Simple way to use space efficiently.

Until you drop a spanner or bit of boiler and smash the pan.

Sigh.

Owain

On 8 Oct 2003 15:44:52 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:

(David) wrote in message . com...

As a follow-up to my recent post on minimum bedroom sizes; I want to
create a bedroom by moving the bathroom to an internal room, and the
major issue with doing this seems to involve moving the toilet.
Could the panel let me know if there's a flaw in my plan?

I sure hope there's a floor in your plan, as using the loo with no
floor is a dodgy business.

Further to the above, another issue I have is the fact that the
existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated in
the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what?

Simple way to use space efficiently.

My plan is to build a cupboard around the boiler, and probably to put
up a new, small, stud partition alongside it such that the boiler will
be located in a cupboard at the end of the landing rather than in what
will be a bedroom. Are there any pitfalls (ventilation, regulations
etc?) which I need to be aware of, eg having a boiler in the bedroom
or landing? It's a combi job (Sime Friendly Format 100E).


Boiler in bedroom is fine, but be aware they put out a lot of heat,
acting like a radiator. When you chop up your room you're gonig to
change the heat distribution, just be aware of that and plan for some
sensible balance.

I just re-read: you will presumably need a good dose of cupboard
ventilation.


Regards, NT
I have just boxed in a boiler into a new airing cupboard, but only
after checking that the manual supplied with the boiler indicated that
this was acceptable - and specified a small minumum clearance round
it. I am also aware that I may have to empty the airing cupboard for
the annual boiler inspection (or in the event of a problem requiring
access)

I would second the warning of another respondent to think about the
heat leaking from the boiler if you are having it in a bedroom -
although I am not sure how much of the heat escaping from our airing
cupboard comes from the pipes to the boiler and how much from the hot
water cylinder (all insulated.)

Brian S Gray wrote in message . ..

I have just boxed in a boiler into a new airing cupboard, but only
after checking that the manual supplied with the boiler indicated that
this was acceptable - and specified a small minumum clearance round
it. I am also aware that I may have to empty the airing cupboard for
the annual boiler inspection (or in the event of a problem requiring
access)

I would second the warning of another respondent to think about the
heat leaking from the boiler if you are having it in a bedroom -
although I am not sure how much of the heat escaping from our airing
cupboard comes from the pipes to the boiler and how much from the hot
water cylinder (all insulated.)

Boilers put out a lot of heat, they're like radiators only hotter. So
if one goes in a cupboard, not only will it need some good
ventilation, but also I would think something to prevent some fool
stacking bedding up against it.
I would be inclined to section off that bit of the cupboard and put
lots of vent grill in - or possibly have the cupboard not go the full
height, with the boiler above it.


From: Owain )
"N. Thornton" wrote

| existing bathroom (the new bedroom) has a boiler in it, situated
in
| the corner directly above the existing loo. Bizarre or what?

| Simple way to use space efficiently.

Until you drop a spanner or bit of boiler and smash the pan.

This is elementarily avoided.


Regards, NT

Brian S Gray wrote in message . ..

My plan is to build a cupboard around the boiler, and probably to put
up a new, small, stud partition alongside it such that the boiler will
be located in a cupboard at the end of the landing rather than in what
will be a bedroom. Are there any pitfalls (ventilation, regulations
etc?) which I need to be aware of, eg having a boiler in the bedroom
or landing? It's a combi job (Sime Friendly Format 100E).

I have just boxed in a boiler into a new airing cupboard, but only
after checking that the manual supplied with the boiler indicated that
this was acceptable - and specified a small minumum clearance round
it. I am also aware that I may have to empty the airing cupboard for
the annual boiler inspection (or in the event of a problem requiring
access)

Thanks. Yes good point, in fact I've been trying to get hold of a
manual to check this in parallel with my original post, without
success. I also don't know what the overall room ventilation
requirements are.

Would anybody happen to have a manual, or be able to suggest where I
could get one? I can't even track down the UK distributors at the
moment. (Boiler is a Sime combi, Friendly Format 100E).

Nobody's commented on whether I can locate my boxed-in boiler on the
landing (my preferred location); I've never seen this done before and
wonder whether it's a no-no (eg fire risk?)

Thanks
David

"David" wrote in message
om...
SNIP

Thanks. Yes good point, in fact I've been trying to get hold of a
manual to check this in parallel with my original post, without
success. I also don't know what the overall room ventilation
requirements are.

Would anybody happen to have a manual, or be able to suggest where I
could get one? I can't even track down the UK distributors at the
moment. (Boiler is a Sime combi, Friendly Format 100E).

Nobody's commented on whether I can locate my boxed-in boiler on the
landing (my preferred location); I've never seen this done before and
wonder whether it's a no-no (eg fire risk?)


I have the manual to hand for the Friendly but alas not the Friendly
Format. However its likely to be equivalent since from memory the casing
construction and insulation is similar. This DOES require compartment
ventilation to BS 5440:2

The landing has no particular problem for the installation of this model as
long as you can meet the maximum flue length required. Varies slightly
dependant on rear, left or right flue entry but about 2.3 metres max
equivalent length

In article ,
N. Thornton wrote:
Boilers put out a lot of heat, they're like radiators only hotter.

Hmm. I've got an old floorstanding Potterton Kingfisher 80 which is in the
airing cupboard - just over twice the volume of the boiler casing. It is
well ventilated, but I'd not say it gives off more heat than a rad -
unless you mean a small one. Keeps the bathroom nice and warm, though.

The casing, incidently, never gets as hot as a rad.

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"John" wrote in message ...
"David" wrote in message
om...
SNIP

Thanks. Yes good point, in fact I've been trying to get hold of a
manual to check this in parallel with my original post, without
success. I also don't know what the overall room ventilation
requirements are.

Would anybody happen to have a manual, or be able to suggest where I
could get one? I can't even track down the UK distributors at the
moment. (Boiler is a Sime combi, Friendly Format 100E).

Nobody's commented on whether I can locate my boxed-in boiler on the
landing (my preferred location); I've never seen this done before and
wonder whether it's a no-no (eg fire risk?)


I have the manual to hand for the Friendly but alas not the Friendly
Format. However its likely to be equivalent since from memory the casing
construction and insulation is similar. This DOES require compartment
ventilation to BS 5440:2

The landing has no particular problem for the installation of this model as
long as you can meet the maximum flue length required. Varies slightly
dependant on rear, left or right flue entry but about 2.3 metres max
equivalent length

Cheers, John.
Flue length isn't an issue since the beast is already in situ; all I'm
doing is building cupboards/partitions around it.

What would be really helpful is if you could let me have any contact
details for Sime (mfr and/or UK distributor) from your manual; sounds
really lame I know, but I can't locate them anywhere!

David

"David" wrote in message
om...
"John" wrote in message
...
"David" wrote in message
om...
SNIP

Thanks. Yes good point, in fact I've been trying to get hold of a
manual to check this in parallel with my original post, without
success. I also don't know what the overall room ventilation
requirements are.

Would anybody happen to have a manual, or be able to suggest where I
could get one? I can't even track down the UK distributors at the
moment. (Boiler is a Sime combi, Friendly Format 100E).

Nobody's commented on whether I can locate my boxed-in boiler on the
landing (my preferred location); I've never seen this done before and
wonder whether it's a no-no (eg fire risk?)


I have the manual to hand for the Friendly but alas not the Friendly
Format. However its likely to be equivalent since from memory the
casing
construction and insulation is similar. This DOES require compartment
ventilation to BS 5440:2

The landing has no particular problem for the installation of this
model as
long as you can meet the maximum flue length required. Varies slightly
dependant on rear, left or right flue entry but about 2.3 metres max
equivalent length

Cheers, John.
Flue length isn't an issue since the beast is already in situ; all I'm
doing is building cupboards/partitions around it.

What would be really helpful is if you could let me have any contact
details for Sime (mfr and/or UK distributor) from your manual; sounds
really lame I know, but I can't locate them anywhere!


I regret to advise you that Sime UK went tits-up a few months ago so you
will not find them anymore. (They used to be in Chesterfield). The parent
Company IIRC is Italian
On a brighter note most of the spares are generic and can be sourced
elsewhere

In message , John
writes

Flue length isn't an issue since the beast is already in situ; all I'm
doing is building cupboards/partitions around it.

What would be really helpful is if you could let me have any contact
details for Sime (mfr and/or UK distributor) from your manual; sounds
really lame I know, but I can't locate them anywhere!


I regret to advise you that Sime UK went tits-up a few months ago so you
will not find them anymore. (They used to be in Chesterfield). The parent
Company IIRC is Italian
On a brighter note most of the spares are generic and can be sourced
elsewhere


I believe that Sime are up and running again, but from Italy rather than
any UK base
--
geoff