Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

--
Regards,
Dick Treen

wrote:
Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.


I think that I would be in touch with the insurance company.

Can anyone confirm that anyone doing such electrical work would require
Part P? If so, you might be able to chase them up through that route.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Rod" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.


I think that I would be in touch with the insurance company.

Can anyone confirm that anyone doing such electrical work would require
Part P? If so, you might be able to chase them up through that route.


The company avoided part p by using an extension lead and not fitting a
fused spur from the CU next to the door.

Adam

ARWadworth wrote:

"Rod" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.


I think that I would be in touch with the insurance company.

Can anyone confirm that anyone doing such electrical work would
require Part P? If so, you might be able to chase them up through that
route.


The company avoided part p by using an extension lead and not fitting a
fused spur from the CU next to the door.

Would that be sufficient? I mean, they *have* fitted a fixed
electrically powered device/appliance - though unsatisfactorily.
(Leastwise, I assume it's not portable. :-) )

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 2008-04-18 14:37:26 +0100, "
said:

Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Have you paid?

If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

On 2008-04-18 14:37:26 +0100, "
said:

Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Have you paid?

If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

On 2008-04-18 14:37:26 +0100, "
said:

Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Have you paid?

If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

On 18 Apr, 15:51, Rod wrote:
wrote:
Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

I think that I would be in touch with the insurance company.

I think the insurance company just "want" to pay, not to project
manage.



Can anyone confirm that anyone doing such electrical work would require
Part P? If so, you might be able to chase them up through that route.

I think Part P has some bearing on the situation. Good job Part P
doesn't restrict the use of extension leads too, or we might be
looking at a team of hamsters
--
Regards,
Dick Treen

was thinking very hard :
Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

Most of these doors can be fitted inside, outside or across the door
opening. Did you ask them to fit it inside to give a wider opening?


I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

They are professionals, you have the right to expect a professional
result.


I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

No doubt they have never heard of Part P, so the idea was simply to
save themselves time and trouble. Insist it is done properly and in
compliance with Part P.



This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Seems excessive, even for an insurance job. Could you you indicate to
the insurco that you are in dispute with the installer over an
unsatisfactory installation and could they without payment for the time
being until it is resolved?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 18 Apr, 18:07, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-18 14:37:26 +0100, "
said:



Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Have you paid?

No, not yet. I have a banker's draft ready to hand over but I'm not
going to do it until I know the job's finished properly.
I may even change the method of payment now I've experienced some
dissatisfaction and also communication difficulties.
It's not a great feeling withholding payment but it beats the
alternative by a long way.


If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

I don't look forward to going into recorded delivery letter mode but
my phone calls and emails aren't getting much response.
Does Special Delivery have useful features?

If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

I think I'll return the banker's draft to source and pay by Visa
instead.

If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a decent job done and just hand over the
money?

--
Regards,
Dick Treen

On 18 Apr, 18:44, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
was thinking very hard :

Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

Most of these doors can be fitted inside, outside or across the door
opening. Did you ask them to fit it inside to give a wider opening?

Yes, I did but it's a fairly standard practice and it should still
have been done properly.


I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

They are professionals, you have the right to expect a professional
result.

I think you're right. The fitters told me that they used to cable from
the Consumer Unit but not any more.
They said the boss told them to try to convince customers that
extension leads are OK. They also claimed that customers usually
accept this.
I find that difficult to believe, unless most customers get charged
considerably less than £2000.00


I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

No doubt they have never heard of Part P, so the idea was simply to
save themselves time and trouble. Insist it is done properly and in
compliance with Part P.

I think they are aware of it but find it an inconvenience. Apparently
the boss is a sparks and will eventually be coming around to do the
right thing, reluctantly it seems

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Seems excessive, even for an insurance job. Could you you indicate to
the insurco that you are in dispute with the installer over an
unsatisfactory installation and could they without payment for the time
being until it is resolved?

The insurance people have agreed to the job at that price in principle
and are just waiting for a receipt from the supplier before they pay
out.
If I can manage to get a decently finished job, perhaps we'll all end
up happy.
Roll on.
--
Regards,
Dick Treen

On 2008-04-18 20:45:36 +0100, "
said:

On 18 Apr, 18:07, Andy Hall wrote:

Have you paid?

No, not yet. I have a banker's draft ready to hand over but I'm not
going to do it until I know the job's finished properly.
I may even change the method of payment now I've experienced some
dissatisfaction and also communication difficulties.

I would do that anyway.


It's not a great feeling withholding payment but it beats the
alternative by a long way.

No it isn't but it's far better to keep control from the outset.
Since the amount is £5k they would ultimately have to sue you with a
Small Claims action in order to get their money. This puts you in a
very strong position.




If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

I don't look forward to going into recorded delivery letter mode but
my phone calls and emails aren't getting much response.
Does Special Delivery have useful features?

Yes. Trackability and proof that someone signed for it. i.e. they
can't claim later that they didn't receive notification.

At this point, I would simply make a note of when you made phone calls
if you remember and keep copies of emails. Then switch everything to
letter mode. Ask them for written confirmation for what they say they
will do. So far the track record is poor in terms of workmanship and
response. there is no reason to believe that it will improve. If
you allow them to respond by phone or in person, you have the risk that
they will claim later that something else was agreed.

Take photos, print copies and include those copies in with the correspondence.

I you need to write a second time, add the name of your firm of
solicitirs as cc. on the letter. Of course you don't have to involve
said solicitors at that stage or at all, but they don't know that. It
just raises the sperm count on the situation.



If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

I think I'll return the banker's draft to source and pay by Visa
instead.

Definitely. Let it cost them the 3% or so. Keep in mind also that
you may want to take some additional action some months down the road
if the workmanship is poor.


If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a decent job done and just hand over the
money?

Yes it would.

I have a very simple principle for doing business. I ask the
supplier what they are going to do and let them tell me. Then I ask
them whether they are sure that that's what they will do because I will
expect them to do it.

Invariably they say yes to all of that. It's surprising how many are
genuinely shocked when called to account on that and it includes
consumer goods retailers, building trade people and many others.

I don't mind suppliers having problems and even initially falling short
of their promises - BUT - I do expect them to fix it and fix it quickly
if that happens.

It really isn't difficult to do a proper job with proper materials and
to be paid for it. It never ceases to amaze me why people, both
suppliers and customers don't understand this concept.

On 2008-04-18 20:45:36 +0100, "
said:

On 18 Apr, 18:07, Andy Hall wrote:

Have you paid?

No, not yet. I have a banker's draft ready to hand over but I'm not
going to do it until I know the job's finished properly.
I may even change the method of payment now I've experienced some
dissatisfaction and also communication difficulties.

I would do that anyway.


It's not a great feeling withholding payment but it beats the
alternative by a long way.

No it isn't but it's far better to keep control from the outset.
Since the amount is £5k they would ultimately have to sue you with a
Small Claims action in order to get their money. This puts you in a
very strong position.




If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

I don't look forward to going into recorded delivery letter mode but
my phone calls and emails aren't getting much response.
Does Special Delivery have useful features?

Yes. Trackability and proof that someone signed for it. i.e. they
can't claim later that they didn't receive notification.

At this point, I would simply make a note of when you made phone calls
if you remember and keep copies of emails. Then switch everything to
letter mode. Ask them for written confirmation for what they say they
will do. So far the track record is poor in terms of workmanship and
response. there is no reason to believe that it will improve. If
you allow them to respond by phone or in person, you have the risk that
they will claim later that something else was agreed.

Take photos, print copies and include those copies in with the correspondence.

I you need to write a second time, add the name of your firm of
solicitirs as cc. on the letter. Of course you don't have to involve
said solicitors at that stage or at all, but they don't know that. It
just raises the sperm count on the situation.



If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

I think I'll return the banker's draft to source and pay by Visa
instead.

Definitely. Let it cost them the 3% or so. Keep in mind also that
you may want to take some additional action some months down the road
if the workmanship is poor.


If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a decent job done and just hand over the
money?

Yes it would.

I have a very simple principle for doing business. I ask the
supplier what they are going to do and let them tell me. Then I ask
them whether they are sure that that's what they will do because I will
expect them to do it.

Invariably they say yes to all of that. It's surprising how many are
genuinely shocked when called to account on that and it includes
consumer goods retailers, building trade people and many others.

I don't mind suppliers having problems and even initially falling short
of their promises - BUT - I do expect them to fix it and fix it quickly
if that happens.

It really isn't difficult to do a proper job with proper materials and
to be paid for it. It never ceases to amaze me why people, both
suppliers and customers don't understand this concept.

On 2008-04-18 20:45:36 +0100, "
said:

On 18 Apr, 18:07, Andy Hall wrote:

Have you paid?

No, not yet. I have a banker's draft ready to hand over but I'm not
going to do it until I know the job's finished properly.
I may even change the method of payment now I've experienced some
dissatisfaction and also communication difficulties.

I would do that anyway.


It's not a great feeling withholding payment but it beats the
alternative by a long way.

No it isn't but it's far better to keep control from the outset.
Since the amount is £5k they would ultimately have to sue you with a
Small Claims action in order to get their money. This puts you in a
very strong position.




If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

I don't look forward to going into recorded delivery letter mode but
my phone calls and emails aren't getting much response.
Does Special Delivery have useful features?

Yes. Trackability and proof that someone signed for it. i.e. they
can't claim later that they didn't receive notification.

At this point, I would simply make a note of when you made phone calls
if you remember and keep copies of emails. Then switch everything to
letter mode. Ask them for written confirmation for what they say they
will do. So far the track record is poor in terms of workmanship and
response. there is no reason to believe that it will improve. If
you allow them to respond by phone or in person, you have the risk that
they will claim later that something else was agreed.

Take photos, print copies and include those copies in with the correspondence.

I you need to write a second time, add the name of your firm of
solicitirs as cc. on the letter. Of course you don't have to involve
said solicitors at that stage or at all, but they don't know that. It
just raises the sperm count on the situation.



If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

I think I'll return the banker's draft to source and pay by Visa
instead.

Definitely. Let it cost them the 3% or so. Keep in mind also that
you may want to take some additional action some months down the road
if the workmanship is poor.


If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a decent job done and just hand over the
money?

Yes it would.

I have a very simple principle for doing business. I ask the
supplier what they are going to do and let them tell me. Then I ask
them whether they are sure that that's what they will do because I will
expect them to do it.

Invariably they say yes to all of that. It's surprising how many are
genuinely shocked when called to account on that and it includes
consumer goods retailers, building trade people and many others.

I don't mind suppliers having problems and even initially falling short
of their promises - BUT - I do expect them to fix it and fix it quickly
if that happens.

It really isn't difficult to do a proper job with proper materials and
to be paid for it. It never ceases to amaze me why people, both
suppliers and customers don't understand this concept.

On 2008-04-18 20:45:36 +0100, "
said:

On 18 Apr, 18:07, Andy Hall wrote:

Have you paid?

No, not yet. I have a banker's draft ready to hand over but I'm not
going to do it until I know the job's finished properly.
I may even change the method of payment now I've experienced some
dissatisfaction and also communication difficulties.

I would do that anyway.


It's not a great feeling withholding payment but it beats the
alternative by a long way.

No it isn't but it's far better to keep control from the outset.
Since the amount is £5k they would ultimately have to sue you with a
Small Claims action in order to get their money. This puts you in a
very strong position.




If not then don't, write to them, post by Special Delivery and advise
them of your displeasure, giving them 7 days to fix.

I don't look forward to going into recorded delivery letter mode but
my phone calls and emails aren't getting much response.
Does Special Delivery have useful features?

Yes. Trackability and proof that someone signed for it. i.e. they
can't claim later that they didn't receive notification.

At this point, I would simply make a note of when you made phone calls
if you remember and keep copies of emails. Then switch everything to
letter mode. Ask them for written confirmation for what they say they
will do. So far the track record is poor in terms of workmanship and
response. there is no reason to believe that it will improve. If
you allow them to respond by phone or in person, you have the risk that
they will claim later that something else was agreed.

Take photos, print copies and include those copies in with the correspondence.

I you need to write a second time, add the name of your firm of
solicitirs as cc. on the letter. Of course you don't have to involve
said solicitors at that stage or at all, but they don't know that. It
just raises the sperm count on the situation.



If so, you did pay by credit card didn't you?

I think I'll return the banker's draft to source and pay by Visa
instead.

Definitely. Let it cost them the 3% or so. Keep in mind also that
you may want to take some additional action some months down the road
if the workmanship is poor.


If you paid by card then write as above and lodge a charge dispute with
the card company. They are on the hook with the supplier.

If you paid other than by card, make a note never to do so again
because it weakens your position. Again write to the supplier but be
prepared to initiate a Small Clams action (amount is £5000) to get
the situation rectified.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a decent job done and just hand over the
money?

Yes it would.

I have a very simple principle for doing business. I ask the
supplier what they are going to do and let them tell me. Then I ask
them whether they are sure that that's what they will do because I will
expect them to do it.

Invariably they say yes to all of that. It's surprising how many are
genuinely shocked when called to account on that and it includes
consumer goods retailers, building trade people and many others.

I don't mind suppliers having problems and even initially falling short
of their promises - BUT - I do expect them to fix it and fix it quickly
if that happens.

It really isn't difficult to do a proper job with proper materials and
to be paid for it. It never ceases to amaze me why people, both
suppliers and customers don't understand this concept.

pretended :
On 18 Apr, 18:44, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
was thinking very hard :

Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed at
the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They are
external to the door.

Most of these doors can be fitted inside, outside or across the door
opening. Did you ask them to fit it inside to give a wider opening?

Yes, I did but it's a fairly standard practice and it should still
have been done properly.


I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

They are professionals, you have the right to expect a professional
result.

I think you're right. The fitters told me that they used to cable from
the Consumer Unit but not any more.
They said the boss told them to try to convince customers that
extension leads are OK. They also claimed that customers usually
accept this.
I find that difficult to believe, unless most customers get charged
considerably less than £2000.00


I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

No doubt they have never heard of Part P, so the idea was simply to
save themselves time and trouble. Insist it is done properly and in
compliance with Part P.

I think they are aware of it but find it an inconvenience. Apparently
the boss is a sparks and will eventually be coming around to do the
right thing, reluctantly it seems

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and told
them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from eBay for
700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped me doing
this was because it was an insurance job.

Seems excessive, even for an insurance job. Could you you indicate to
the insurco that you are in dispute with the installer over an
unsatisfactory installation and could they without payment for the time
being until it is resolved?

The insurance people have agreed to the job at that price in principle
and are just waiting for a receipt from the supplier before they pay
out.
If I can manage to get a decently finished job, perhaps we'll all end
up happy.
Roll on.

Once the bill is paid in full, it will be very difficult to get them to
return to rectify defects. Until your complaints have been resolved to
your full satisfaction, ask them to hold back at least a worthwhile
part of the payment.

I paid £450 for a 7' x 7' door to install my self a few months ago,
that is an electric insulated panel one with full remote control - I
would expect an installer to pay substantially less for similar. Which
gives some idea how much of the £2000 is labour and profit.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

ARWadworth wrote:
"Rod" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Hi, a local firm recently came and fitted me an electric roller door
on my garage. It's set further back than the original and where this
has exposed concrete block work in the door opening, timber boards
have been used to cover. I noticed that the boards were plain
untreated timber as they were being put in. Then they were masticed
at the edges and the exposed face was painted with woodstain. They
are external to the door.

I know this is poor workmanship but is it actually against some kind
of regulations for a commercial firm to use these practices?

I'm already in dispute with the company for their attempting to get
away with powering the door by means of an extension lead, trailed
from the opposite corner of the garage. There is a consumer unit
servicing the house right next to the door, which was ignored.

This is a 2,000 quid job, or just under. I phoned the firm up and
told them if I'd wanted a d-i-y job I'd've bought the door from
eBay for 700 quid and fitted it myself. The only thing that stopped
me doing this was because it was an insurance job.


I think that I would be in touch with the insurance company.

Can anyone confirm that anyone doing such electrical work would
require Part P? If so, you might be able to chase them up through
that route.


The company avoided part p by using an extension lead and not fitting
a fused spur from the CU next to the door.

Communication is the problem here surely? I've 'avoided' Part P on quite
a few occassions when fitting new security lights. I've done so by clearly
saying that I can't run a new circuit to the light, but I could run a cable
& terminate it with a 13 amp plug (suitably fused), which can be plugged
into a nearby switched socket outlet.

As long as the customer understands this & agrees before hand there isn't
a problem.

Having said that, if it wasn't specified in advance & the boarding does
sound like a bodge job, I can see why the OP isn't happy.

Under promise, over deliver.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've 'avoided' Part P on quite a few occassions when fitting new
security lights. I've done so by clearly saying that I can't run a
new circuit to the light, but I could run a cable & terminate it with
a 13 amp plug (suitably fused), which can be plugged into a nearby
switched socket outlet.

This does not get round Part P. The Approved Document is quite clear on
the point - see note (h) on page 9.

--
Andy

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've 'avoided' Part P on quite a few occassions when fitting new security
lights. I've done so by clearly saying that I can't run a
new circuit to the light, but I could run a cable & terminate it with
a 13 amp plug (suitably fused), which can be plugged into a nearby
switched socket outlet.

This does not get round Part P. The Approved Document is quite clear on
the point - see note (h) on page 9.

But note (i) just below it says you can.

Either way it seems that the garage doors are notifiable.

Adam

On 2008-04-19 08:29:45 +0100, "ARWadworth"
said:


"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I've 'avoided' Part P on quite a few occassions when fitting new
security lights. I've done so by clearly saying that I can't run a
new circuit to the light, but I could run a cable & terminate it with
a 13 amp plug (suitably fused), which can be plugged into a nearby
switched socket outlet.

This does not get round Part P. The Approved Document is quite clear
on the point - see note (h) on page 9.

But note (i) just below it says you can.

Either way it seems that the garage doors are notifiable.

Adam

Either way, hooking up what is intended to be a permanently installed
electrical system with an extension lead is not a workmanlike solution.

ARWadworth wrote:

But note (i) just below it says you can.

Unless you're feeding it from a circuit in a kitchen or special location.

Either way it seems that the garage doors are notifiable.

But just adding a fused spur to an existing circuit in a garage isn't,
and that's probably all that was needed. Of course 'not notifiable'
doesn't mean Part P does not apply. The work still has to be safe, and
therefore needs to be installed by someone with some Clue about what
they're doing, and tested.

Clearly that didn't happen in this case of a misguided attempt to
sidestep the regulations. The result is a much lower standard of
installation than would have occurred prior to Part P coming in.
Exactly what some of us here predicted would happen.

Another Part P nonsense I heard about recently is this. A friend's son
and his partner had new a washing machine delivered, and had ordered
'installation'. Electrical connection of the old m/c was hard-wired,
with an above-worktop switched FCU feeding a flex outlet below the
worktop - or some similar arrangement. Installer-man turns up, connects
the plumbing and drainage, then pronounces the electrical connection
arrangement to be "totally illegal". "No I'm not allowed to connect it
to that, and nor are you." With that, to add meaning to his words he
removed and pocketed the fuse _and_fuse_carrier_ from the FCU and
buggered off. A case of theft, surely. (FAOD this would have been
like-for-like replacement so wouldn't have constituted electrical
installation work within the meaning of the act in any case.)

--
Andy

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