Last week, I had a problem with 3 year old Vaillant EcoMax Pro 18E. It
was dripping water from the bottom of the casing. It turns out the
cause was related to the float in the condensate tank. Because of poor
design, the tank and associated siphoning equipment is prone to
malfunctioning because it gets gunged up and sticks, causing the
condensate to back up and spill over into the casing. It then drips
out the bottom of the casing.

The obvious way to treat this problem is to have someone come and
inspect then clean up all the components and put them back together
again. This of course leads to nice repeat business which the
customer pays for.

It transpires that there is a modified design available as a free
service exchange but unless you know about it and demand it, then its
not likely that any non-Vaillant engineer will fit it - particularly
if its a free lancer you have selected yourself or a sub-contractor
to a sub-contractor that the manufacturer might provide.

But then that's another story that brings to mind words like cowboys,
Rogue Traders and BBC Watchdog.

In my case the cowboy's first question was...'Is this a contact job or
a one off? When you mention you have a drip problem then cowboy will
say......' ' Oh, its a repair job then and parts will be extra. I
havnt got a big stock of parts in the van so I will have to go and get
them' '.

I wasnt going to stand for this nonesense so told him where to get
off. HWMBO was most impressed.

Incidentally its the same condensate tank arrangement that is fitted
to Glowworm 18 Hxi boilers.

Good luck!

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:45:14 -0800, Yvonne wrote:

Last week, I had a problem with 3 year old Vaillant EcoMax Pro 18E. It
was dripping water from the bottom of the casing. It turns out the
cause was related to the float in the condensate tank. Because of poor
design, the tank and associated siphoning equipment is prone to
malfunctioning because it gets gunged up and sticks, causing the
condensate to back up and spill over into the casing. It then drips
out the bottom of the casing.

The obvious way to treat this problem is to have someone come and
inspect then clean up all the components and put them back together
again. This of course leads to nice repeat business which the
customer pays for.

It transpires that there is a modified design available as a free
service exchange but unless you know about it and demand it, then its
not likely that any non-Vaillant engineer will fit it - particularly
if its a free lancer you have selected yourself or a sub-contractor
to a sub-contractor that the manufacturer might provide.
....
In my case the cowboy's first question was...'Is this a contact job or
a one off? When you mention you have a drip problem then cowboy will
say......' ' Oh, its a repair job then and parts will be extra. I
havnt got a big stock of parts in the van so I will have to go and get
them' '.


So let me see if I understand you right:

1. You have a problem with your boiler which turns out to be a fault which
the manufacturers have a free fix for, which engineers who specialise in
your make of boiler should know about.

2. You engage an engineer who isn't a specialist in your make of boiler and
who doesn't know about the manufacturer's free fix, who proposes to charge
you for doing a repair on the boiler as he would if it were any other
boiler repair job (including asking you to pay for him getting and fitting
model-specific parts for the appliance which, not being a specialist in
this make, he couldn't reasonably be expected to keep as van stock).

3. And therefore he's a cowboy ... why exactly?


--
John Stumbles

Extreme moderate

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:45:09 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:45:14 -0800, Yvonne wrote:

Last week, I had a problem with 3 year old Vaillant EcoMax Pro 18E. It
was dripping water from the bottom of the casing. It turns out the
cause was related to the float in the condensate tank. Because of poor
design, the tank and associated siphoning equipment is prone to
malfunctioning because it gets gunged up and sticks, causing the
condensate to back up and spill over into the casing. It then drips out
the bottom of the casing.

The obvious way to treat this problem is to have someone come and
inspect then clean up all the components and put them back together
again. This of course leads to nice repeat business which the customer
pays for.

It transpires that there is a modified design available as a free
service exchange but unless you know about it and demand it, then its
not likely that any non-Vaillant engineer will fit it - particularly if
its a free lancer you have selected yourself or a sub-contractor to a
sub-contractor that the manufacturer might provide.
...
In my case the cowboy's first question was...'Is this a contact job or
a one off? When you mention you have a drip problem then cowboy will
say......' ' Oh, its a repair job then and parts will be extra. I havnt
got a big stock of parts in the van so I will have to go and get them'
'.


So let me see if I understand you right:

1. You have a problem with your boiler which turns out to be a fault
which the manufacturers have a free fix for, which engineers who
specialise in your make of boiler should know about.

2. You engage an engineer who isn't a specialist in your make of boiler
and who doesn't know about the manufacturer's free fix, who proposes to
charge you for doing a repair on the boiler as he would if it were any
other boiler repair job (including asking you to pay for him getting and
fitting model-specific parts for the appliance which, not being a
specialist in this make, he couldn't reasonably be expected to keep as
van stock).

3. And therefore he's a cowboy ... why exactly?

I couldn't have put it better myself. I fit mostly Vaillants and service
a lot of different boilers. I would not have known that this was a stock
fault with a free(?) upgrade part (non of the ones I look after have
shown this problem yet [1]).



[1] Partly because an annual service for these would usually include
sniffing the flue gases and cleaning out the condensate trap.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
So let me see if I understand you right:

1. You have a problem with your boiler which turns out to be a fault
which the manufacturers have a free fix for, which engineers who
specialise in your make of boiler should know about.

2. You engage an engineer who isn't a specialist in your make of boiler
and who doesn't know about the manufacturer's free fix, who proposes to
charge you for doing a repair on the boiler as he would if it were any
other boiler repair job (including asking you to pay for him getting and
fitting model-specific parts for the appliance which, not being a
specialist in this make, he couldn't reasonably be expected to keep as
van stock).

3. And therefore he's a cowboy ... why exactly?

I couldn't have put it better myself.

A bit like what I was trying to explain to RDS or whoever he was, who
didn't seem to be interested in taking on another point of view


--
geoff

So let me see if I understand you right:

1. You have a problem with your boiler which turns out to be a fault which
the manufacturers have a free fix for, which engineers who specialise in
your make of boiler should know about.

Correct. You've got that bit right.

2. You engage an engineer who isn't a specialist in your make of boiler and
who doesn't know about the manufacturer's free fix, who proposes to charge
you for doing a repair on the boiler as he would if it were any other
boiler repair job (including asking you to pay for him getting and fitting
model-specific parts for the appliance which, not being a specialist in
this make, he couldn't reasonably be expected to keep as van stock).

Not correct. I did not engage an engineer who isn't a specialist. I
contacted Vaillant and booked a visit with them for one of their own
engineers. Apparantly, because they were busy, they delegated it to
one of their sub-contractors who then engaged a sub-contractor of
their own - and he was the cowboy. Got it?

I fit mostly Vaillants and service
a lot of different boilers. I would not have known that this was a stock
fault with a free(?) upgrade part (non of the ones I look after have
shown this problem yet [1]).

[1] Partly because an annual service for these would usually include
sniffing the flue gases and cleaning out the condensate trap.

After the Cowboy's visit, I contacted Vaillant and they sent out one
of their own engineers to do the job properly and he advised that
there was a general problem with the condensate arrangement. Hence the
frre upgrade.

On 2007-11-26 13:44:48 +0000, Yvonne said:


I fit mostly Vaillants and service
a lot of different boilers. I would not have known that this was a stock
fault with a free(?) upgrade part (non of the ones I look after have
shown this problem yet [1]).

[1] Partly because an annual service for these would usually include
sniffing the flue gases and cleaning out the condensate trap.

After the Cowboy's visit, I contacted Vaillant and they sent out one
of their own engineers to do the job properly and he advised that
there was a general problem with the condensate arrangement. Hence the
frre upgrade.

So you got it fixed. What are you complaining about?

Yvonne wrote:

one of their sub-contractors who then engaged a sub-contractor of
their own - and he was the cowboy. Got it?

OK, got the scene, but you have still not explained why he was a cowboy.

He did not know about the free part, which given the circumstances you
describe it not at all surprising. However, this is obviously a failing
of Vaillant's chain of delegation, and not that of the man tasked with
the repair.

Was he unprofessional, lacking appropriate skills or tooling, not CORGI
registered, attempting to over charge etc?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
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\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:40:22 -0800, Yvonne wrote:

Not correct. I did not engage an engineer who isn't a specialist. I
contacted Vaillant and booked a visit with them for one of their own
engineers. Apparantly, because they were busy, they delegated it to
one of their sub-contractors who then engaged a sub-contractor of
their own - and he was the cowboy. Got it?

OK, but why do you call him a cowboy? Was it just because he accepted the
twice-delegated job? Did he claim to be fully trained & supported
by Vaillant when he wasn't?

--
John Stumbles

I've got nothing against racists - I just wouldn't want my daughter to marry one

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:33:35 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:40:22 -0800, Yvonne wrote:

Not correct. I did not engage an engineer who isn't a specialist. I
contacted Vaillant and booked a visit with them for one of their own
engineers. Apparantly, because they were busy, they delegated it to one
of their sub-contractors who then engaged a sub-contractor of their own
- and he was the cowboy. Got it?

OK, but why do you call him a cowboy? Was it just because he accepted
the twice-delegated job? Did he claim to be fully trained & supported by
Vaillant when he wasn't?

I can understand the customer's concern thinking that they would get a
Vaillant operative (who would know about upgrades etc.).
The problem lies with Vaillant being too busy to have full control over
their after sales service not with the guy who turned up.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html