On 2007-07-04 11:50:35 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 11:08:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
itsmeinnit wrote:
Lord Hall, that was a load of bollox - what do expect from the
Torygraph. Mine does 55 to 60 mpg and the emissions in town is brill.
To drive they are a dream. Everything else after is agricultural.

"...the unbearable smugness of some Toyota Prius owners presents a
tempting target. Quick to point the finger at others, some use their
Prius as public proof of a caring and moral "lifestyle" and put the
moan into sanctimonious..."

Dribble certainly has the attitude. All he needs now is the car...

I saw a picture of Ken Livingstone sitting in one.

I couldn't finish my breakfast.

I know what you mean he is awe inspiring.

An emetic personality.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
If you look at the Prius it is obvious that it is designed to get the
most from the official test.. even the battery is designed to have just
enough capacity to complete the test.

The telling one was Autocar getting only 22 mpg

22mpg! Please eff off as you are a worthless troll.

On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
wrote:
Prius owner are you?

No, I'm not.


The Telegraph should stick to printing planted MI6 stories, their
speciality.

Well at least they got into the thing, and drove it under some sort of
test conditions and compared it with an equivalent small turbodiesel,
and came up with an assessment that isn't entirely based on wishful
thinking.

Which means nothing considering their obvious biased agenda. I don't
need to get into it to know the 'dust to dust' report is skewed.

If

Please eff off as you are a worthless troll.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
Fash wrote:
Forget the prius for a moment (although for sake of argument I'm
convinced lifetime energy balance is bad compared to modern diesel),
I'm more interested in the concept of a hybrid SUV. What's that all
about? They must be mad! on what planet can that be green.

And

Please eff off troll.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader
things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.

For the chinless wonders to get back in? Cameron with old Etonian mates
running the place - the thought of it!!!! Hurray Henry!!!!! More poor
people living on the streets to rip-off again!!!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
convinced lifetime energy balance is bad compared to modern diesel),
I'm more interested in the concept of a hybrid SUV. What's that all
about? They must be mad! on what planet can that be green.


The one where you use it to haul firewood out of the boggy woods?

Heh heh. The Lexus SUV hybrid can't be used off road or to tow. It's a
pure Chelsea Tractor.

Who said anything about towing?

Wood goes in the back..

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader
things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.


Heaven forbid it should become the Labour party.

That would be worse than Blair.

The only one thing he has done is demonstrate that a true 'labour party'
is completely unelectable: If one gets in by default, god help us all.

We don't have a labour force any more, so why do we even pretend we need
a labour party?

On Jul 4, 1:51 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Prius owner are you?
No, I'm not.

The Telegraph should stick to printing planted MI6 stories, their
speciality.

Well at least they got into the thing, and drove it under some sort of
test conditions and compared it with an equivalent small turbodiesel,
and came up with an assessment that isn't entirely based on wishful
thinking.
Which means nothing considering their obvious biased agenda. I don't
need to get into it to know the 'dust to dust' report is skewed.

If you're not an owner have you driven one and read reliable test reports?
Magazines as far apart as Autocar and Which have criticised the
unrealistic running cost claims. Unfortunately since they're based on
official government figures it's not possible to prosecute under the
misleading advertising laws.

But if you're not an owner, why are you so keen on defending the idea?

I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

Regards the 'unrealistic' running costs, that goes for pretty much
every car on the market. I've yet to own a vehicle which ever lived up
to the manufacturer's figures.
Anyway, my point was about references to a skewed report.


--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jul 4, 12:54 am, Matt wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...oring/2007/06/...

Laugh? I split my epicyclic ring.

--

OMG I actually read something from the Torygraph!

Still it's the same old dross a few 'economic truths'...

cheers,
Pete.

On 2007-07-04 14:05:47 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.

For the chinless wonders to get back in? Cameron with old Etonian
mates running the place - the thought of it!!!! Hurray Henry!!!!!
More poor people living on the streets to rip-off again!!!

Only plumbing counter assistants with hacksaws

On Jul 4, 1:53 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article .com,
Fash wrote:

Forget the prius for a moment (although for sake of argument I'm
convinced lifetime energy balance is bad compared to modern diesel),
I'm more interested in the concept of a hybrid SUV. What's that all
about? They must be mad! on what planet can that be green.

And they are exempt from the congestion charge - despite producing far
more CO than many a small car.

I think the new system takes CO output into consideration to close
that loophole.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
If you look at the Prius it is obvious that it is designed to get the
most from the official test.. even the battery is designed to have
just enough capacity to complete the test.

The telling one was Autocar getting only 22 mpg

22mpg! Please eff off as you are a worthless troll.

So you're now admitting you can't read - but can certainly write rubbish.

Seek treatment soon.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
Fash wrote:
Forget the prius for a moment (although for sake of argument I'm
convinced lifetime energy balance is bad compared to modern diesel),
I'm more interested in the concept of a hybrid SUV. What's that all
about? They must be mad! on what planet can that be green.

And they are exempt from the congestion charge - despite producing far
more CO than many a small car.

More to the point they are not penalised for being a "large vehicle" -
which might at least have some bearing on congestion[1].

To link traffic congestion and CO2 seems rather nonsensical! (that is
assuming that you accept the "congestion charge" is actually about
controlling congestion, rather than just a bit of lefty social
engineering and tax raising.

[1] The large vehicle argument would seem best supported by when their
is a bus strike - traffic flows so much better!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
If you look at the Prius it is obvious that it is designed to get the
most from the official test.. even the battery is designed to have
just enough capacity to complete the test.

The telling one was Autocar getting only 22 mpg

22mpg! Please eff off as you are a worthless troll.

So

Please eff off as you are a worthless troll.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
That is tripe. Kerbside emissions are lethal. Pollution in cities has
to be reduced drasically as more lungs are exposed. The Prius engine is
off when standing still at lights or crawling in traffic (well most of
the time, as it may come in occassionally to re-charge). Brake regen
assists greatly too.

CO2 isn't lethal otherwise we'd all be dead. All current petrol engined
cars actually clean the atmosphere in towns of many noxious substances.
But then I'd not expect you to know anything about such things. They don't
tell you that in Prius ads.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 14:05:47 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader
things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.

For the chinless wonders to get back in? Cameron with old Etonian mates
running the place - the thought of it!!!! Hurray Henry!!!!! More poor
people living on the streets to rip-off again!!!

Only plumbing counter assistants with hacksaws

No, they will rip everyone off, including naive Little Middle Englanders.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-07-04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
Fash wrote:
Forget the prius for a moment (although for sake of argument I'm
convinced lifetime energy balance is bad compared to modern diesel),
I'm more interested in the concept of a hybrid SUV. What's that all
about? They must be mad! on what planet can that be green.

And they are exempt from the congestion charge - despite producing far
more CO than many a small car.

CO?

)

Twoche ;-)

--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
convinced lifetime energy balance is bad compared to modern diesel),
I'm more interested in the concept of a hybrid SUV. What's that all
about? They must be mad! on what planet can that be green.


The one where you use it to haul firewood out of the boggy woods?

Heh heh. The Lexus SUV hybrid can't be used off road or to tow. It's a
pure Chelsea Tractor.

Who said anything about towing?

Wood goes in the back..

Probably just as bad in a boggy wood. Ok if you can find it in Tesco's
carpark, though.

--
*I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .com,
wrote:
On Jul 4, 1:51 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Prius owner are you?
No, I'm not.

The Telegraph should stick to printing planted MI6 stories,
their speciality.

Well at least they got into the thing, and drove it under some
sort of test conditions and compared it with an equivalent small
turbodiesel, and came up with an assessment that isn't entirely
based on wishful thinking.
Which means nothing considering their obvious biased agenda. I don't
need to get into it to know the 'dust to dust' report is skewed.

If you're not an owner have you driven one and read reliable test
reports? Magazines as far apart as Autocar and Which have criticised
the unrealistic running cost claims. Unfortunately since they're based
on official government figures it's not possible to prosecute under
the misleading advertising laws.

But if you're not an owner, why are you so keen on defending the idea?

I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

But the main misrepresenting is in the hype and advertising.

Regards the 'unrealistic' running costs, that goes for pretty much every
car on the market. I've yet to own a vehicle which ever lived up to the
manufacturer's figures. Anyway, my point was about references to a
skewed report.

The fact remains that the way of calculating official mpg results is even
more inaccurate with hybrids. That's one of the reasons they were
developed. But the main one was to produce very low emissions under
certain circumstances at the point of use. Ie, specifically for some parts
of the Californian market. Hence the petrol, rather than diesel, engine.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jul 4, 3:15 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:



On Jul 4, 1:51 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Prius owner are you?
No, I'm not.

The Telegraph should stick to printing planted MI6 stories,
their speciality.

Well at least they got into the thing, and drove it under some
sort of test conditions and compared it with an equivalent small
turbodiesel, and came up with an assessment that isn't entirely
based on wishful thinking.
Which means nothing considering their obvious biased agenda. I don't
need to get into it to know the 'dust to dust' report is skewed.

If you're not an owner have you driven one and read reliable test
reports? Magazines as far apart as Autocar and Which have criticised
the unrealistic running cost claims. Unfortunately since they're based
on official government figures it's not possible to prosecute under
the misleading advertising laws.

But if you're not an owner, why are you so keen on defending the idea?
I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

But the main misrepresenting is in the hype and advertising.

That does not mean that the report is not skewed which is what my post
was about. The 'hype' is subjective anyway.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
That is tripe. Kerbside emissions are lethal. Pollution in cities has
to be reduced drasically as more lungs are exposed. The Prius engine is
off when standing still at lights or crawling in traffic (well most of
the time, as it may come in occassionally to re-charge). Brake regen
assists greatly too.

CO2

Please eff off as you are a worthless troll.

In article . com,
wrote:
I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

But the main misrepresenting is in the hype and advertising.

That does not mean that the report is not skewed which is what my post
was about. The 'hype' is subjective anyway.

Perhaps you'd give details of how you think the article was skewed?

--
*Gun Control: Use both hands.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:
I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

But the main misrepresenting is in the hype and advertising.

That does not mean that the report is not skewed which is what my post
was about. The 'hype' is subjective anyway.

Perhaps

Sane people would just read it, so please eff off as you are a worthless
troll.

On Jul 4, 3:31 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

But the main misrepresenting is in the hype and advertising.
That does not mean that the report is not skewed which is what my post
was about. The 'hype' is subjective anyway.

Perhaps you'd give details of how you think the article was skewed?

I was referring to the 'dust to dust' report. See my first post.


--
*Gun Control: Use both hands.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-07-04 15:08:21 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 14:05:47 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.

For the chinless wonders to get back in? Cameron with old Etonian
mates running the place - the thought of it!!!! Hurray Henry!!!!!
More poor people living on the streets to rip-off again!!!

Only plumbing counter assistants with hacksaws

No, they will rip everyone off, including naive Little Middle Englanders.

Nah. Lower taxes.

BTW. I just heard on the radio that your friend Boris is thinking of
standing for mayor of London. That would bring some new excitement.

On Jul 4, 1:08 pm, "dennis@home"
wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 4, 12:54 am, Matt wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...oring/2007/06/...

Laugh? I split my epicyclic ring.

--

Not that stupid dust to dust report. Of course if you include R&D
costs of new technology it is going to cost more. The point is that it
will eventually lower.

It doesn't include research and engineering but it does include
manufacturing which is relevant /if/ you want to lower CO2.

Yes it does include energy expended in R&D. Even if CNW did their best
to hide that part.


Accusing Prius drivers of being smug yet it's dicks like this
journalist and his ilk that seem so obsessed with the likes of Prius
drivers. Is it masturbatory material for them?

Buying a car that uses more fuel is not saving CO2.
If you like the car fine.. but don't claim you (as in Prius drivers) are
helping the environment when it is obviously untrue.
The same is true for electric cars and hydrogen powered cars.. they don't
actually help to reduce CO2 only the pollution on the road.

I do not drive a Prius, but don't let me stop you from making
assumptions. I've also not claimed anything about helping the
enviroment. But carry on with your straw man argument. Try reading
posts before you pigeon hole people.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 15:08:21 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 14:05:47 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 13:14:43 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:


"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

Or saying the Tory party is good for the UK.

Its not been too bad for the last 10 years, now Brown is the leader
things
may change.. who knows it may even become the Labour party.

That should pave the way nicely.

For the chinless wonders to get back in? Cameron with old Etonian
mates running the place - the thought of it!!!! Hurray Henry!!!!!
More poor people living on the streets to rip-off again!!!

Only plumbing counter assistants with hacksaws

No, they will rip everyone off, including naive Little Middle Englanders.

Nah. Lower taxes.

BTW. I just heard on the radio that your friend Boris is thinking of
standing for mayor of London. That would bring some new excitement.

Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

On 2007-07-04 16:27:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

It's Ken that's the red though.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 16:27:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

It's Ken that's the red though.

That's good enough for me. What we need is a good Lhandaner in charge

On 2007-07-04 16:42:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 16:27:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

It's Ken that's the red though.

That's good enough for me. What we need is a good Lhandaner in charge

Perhaps Shirley Porter would be interested. She's pretty good.
After all, she only did the same kinds of things as certain members and
former members of the government have apparently been doing.

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

The large vehicle argument would seem best supported by when their
is a bus strike - traffic flows so much better!

Cut congestion at a stroke - do away with bus lanes. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 16:42:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 16:27:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

It's Ken that's the red though.

That's good enough for me. What we need is a good Lhandaner in charge

Perhaps Shirley Porter would be interested.

She is Israeli..already.

In article . com,
wrote:
Perhaps you'd give details of how you think the article was skewed?

I was referring to the 'dust to dust' report. See my first post.

Well, yes. But not how you actually think that part is flawed. Toyota said
it was but refused to give any data to back that up.

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-07-04 17:26:04 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 16:42:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-07-04 16:27:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

It's Ken that's the red though.

That's good enough for me. What we need is a good Lhandaner in charge

Perhaps Shirley Porter would be interested.

She is Israeli..already.

Born in Clapton, my life.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 17:26:04 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 16:42:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-04 16:27:14 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
said:


Johnson? A Ruskie? In charge of London? That idiot?

It's Ken that's the red though.

That's good enough for me. What we need is a good Lhandaner in charge

Perhaps Shirley Porter would be interested.

She is Israeli..already.

Born in Clapton, my life.

near enough.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
What a load of bollox - they are sneering socially responsible people
too. I got a Prius because it is superb to drive,

Which proves either:-

You've never driven one.
Never driven any other modern car.

(c) All of the above.

Matt wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ng/2007/06/30/
nosplit/mfprius30.xml

Laugh? I split my epicyclic ring.

The only thing missing from the article was any observation on the fact
that the state of charge of the Prius battery is never checked in these
tests.

Other than that it's interesting how many points made here (all denied
by Drivel) are made in that article.

wrote:

On Jul 4, 3:31 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

I don't need to be an owner to defend something that is being
misrepresented.

But the main misrepresenting is in the hype and advertising.
That does not mean that the report is not skewed which is what my post
was about. The 'hype' is subjective anyway.

Perhaps you'd give details of how you think the article was skewed?

I was referring to the 'dust to dust' report. See my first post.

Oh here we go. Make accusations of 'bias' then run away when challenged
to give details of said bias.

dennis@home wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Roll on BEV's though. And more nuclear power stations.

Prius is a total abortion really.

What's a BEV?



Battery powered..

Doesn't the cost of alkalines mount up rather quickly? And what about
the pollution potential of all those batteries in landfill?

How far can you get on a pair of AAs?