One of my most used tools in the garage is my compressor as an air
blower. But I keep thinking how much I would like a portable version..
SOmething like a "Recharable Air Blower" which I could fill from my
compressor.

As an ex-diver, I had an idea.. I have a small (perhaps 1/2l) air
bottle and I figured that with the correct fittings, I could connect
it to my cylinder and fill it. As my project developed, I realised
that if I fitted a standard 'quick release' fitting to the top of the
bottle. I could use it to power ANY tool.. Obviously its not going to
give much air, but certainly enough to drive in a few staples for
example.

The idea is sound, but trying to get the fittings has proved
impossible.

The thread in the bottle is 7/10" (not sure if 7/10" is right, but
thats what my calipers say it is) but no-one that I have found stocks
anyhting like this, which will convert to BSP.. Once its in a BSP
thread, I already have plenty of adaptors which will let me hook it
up.

So, the question is, can I get a adaptor to convert the thread on the
bottle to BSP?

If not, where could I get a small bottle (1L) which is capable of
holding a measly 8bar which has a suitable thread?

I look forwards to your thoughts

Jon

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

One of my most used tools in the garage is my compressor as an air
blower. But I keep thinking how much I would like a portable version..
SOmething like a "Recharable Air Blower" which I could fill from my
compressor.

As an ex-diver, I had an idea.. I have a small (perhaps 1/2l) air
bottle and I figured that with the correct fittings, I could connect
it to my cylinder and fill it. As my project developed, I realised
that if I fitted a standard 'quick release' fitting to the top of the
bottle. I could use it to power ANY tool.. Obviously its not going to
give much air, but certainly enough to drive in a few staples for
example.

The idea is sound, but trying to get the fittings has proved
impossible.

The thread in the bottle is 7/10" (not sure if 7/10" is right, but
thats what my calipers say it is) but no-one that I have found stocks
anyhting like this, which will convert to BSP.. Once its in a BSP
thread, I already have plenty of adaptors which will let me hook it
up.

So, the question is, can I get a adaptor to convert the thread on the
bottle to BSP?

If not, where could I get a small bottle (1L) which is capable of
holding a measly 8bar which has a suitable thread?

I look forwards to your thoughts

Jon

What would normally screw into your gas bottle? Can you get a fitting with
the right thread onto which you could braze a short length of copper pipe,
with a BSP fitting at the other end?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On 27 Mar 2007 01:38:58 -0700, wrote:

If not, where could I get a small bottle (1L) which is capable of
holding a measly 8bar which has a suitable thread?

you could use a fire extinguiser bottle. sometimes available from
scrap merchants i gather.
That will probably have a sensible sized thread on it already. The one
hanging on the wall in my office at work looks very similar to the
fittings on my pub gas co2 bottle (which are avaialble from welding
suppliers).

On 27 Mar, 10:41, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,





wrote:
One of my most used tools in the garage is my compressor as an air
blower. But I keep thinking how much I would like a portable version..
SOmething like a "Recharable Air Blower" which I could fill from my
compressor.

As an ex-diver, I had an idea.. I have a small (perhaps 1/2l) air
bottle and I figured that with the correct fittings, I could connect
it to my cylinder and fill it. As my project developed, I realised
that if I fitted a standard 'quick release' fitting to the top of the
bottle. I could use it to power ANY tool.. Obviously its not going to
give much air, but certainly enough to drive in a few staples for
example.

The idea is sound, but trying to get the fittings has proved
impossible.

The thread in the bottle is 7/10" (not sure if 7/10" is right, but
thats what my calipers say it is) but no-one that I have found stocks
anyhting like this, which will convert to BSP.. Once its in a BSP
thread, I already have plenty of adaptors which will let me hook it
up.

So, the question is, can I get a adaptor to convert the thread on the
bottle to BSP?

If not, where could I get a small bottle (1L) which is capable of
holding a measly 8bar which has a suitable thread?

I look forwards to your thoughts

Jon

What would normally screw into your gas bottle? Can you get a fitting with
the right thread onto which you could braze a short length of copper pipe,
with a BSP fitting at the other end?
--
Cheers,
Roger

Its an interesting idea and something that I have thought about.. Its
a steal valve, which connects to a full sized dive bottle.. But there
are a number of reasons why I don't want to do this.

1. Its steel, so brazing to copper is almost certainly not going to
work.
2. It means destroying a perfectly good valve
3. Its got a TINY hold through it (I guess because its designed to
work at 232bar, so volume isn't an issue). Obviously I could drill
this out to make it bigger.

But it is an option should I not be able to locate a source for the
correct parts! My other option is to obtain an old Fire-extinguisher
bottle. But again, I don't know wheere I would be able to connect a
standard BSP thread to it.

Jon

On 27 Mar, 09:38, wrote:
One of my most used tools in the garage is my compressor as an air
blower. But I keep thinking how much I would like a portable version..
SOmething like a "Recharable Air Blower" which I could fill from my
compressor.

Do the maths. You can't do this for workshop pressures and store a
useful amount of energy in a bottle small enough to be portable. For
anything smaller than a zeppelin, you get two nails and it's flattened
again.

Your dive bottle is designed for a squillion psi. Like all HP air
systems outside submarines, it only needs a moderate mass airflow and
so the passageways are deliberately designed to be tiny. If you did
use it, you wouldn't get enough volume airflow out of it to drive an
air tool.

If you use a dive bottle anywhere around its design pressure, you need
to design a HP air system. You're on your own there!

If you even use a dive bottle there are problems. Just turning it into
a plantpot involves paperwork that makes CORGI look like Blue Peter.
You have to destroy the cylinder by the official protocol (making sure
you don't turn you and your bandsaw into a small sticky mess when it
turns out to have still had pressure in it). You're also _really_
prohibited from modifying SCBA kit - if you do anything with it, you
first have to "de-mil" it and make it entirely certain it can't ever
be confused again with use for its original purpose. Then there's the
legal aspect of getting your arse sued off by angry cylinder
companies.... (DAMHIKT)

I only know of one guy who I'd regard as competent (legally and
technically) to dispose of a SCBA cylinder appropriately, and
certainly none of the divers (the cave divers are beyond hope anyway).
And that's picked from a circle of people with fairly fearsome
attitudes to what's possible in a shed.

In practical terms, compressed gas just ain't going to work (unless
you're back to squillion psi). If you _must_, then you need to store
liquid instead. More stored mass means more stored energy. CO2 is
practical here, for small values of practical.

Also a SCBA cylinder is the wrong thing (and a dive bottle is, I
understand, even worse). You can't get the volume airflow out of it.
There's another obvious source though, pub CO2 cylinders.

Hi All

Sort of off topic - but along similar lines......
and you all seem to know what you're talking about..... g

Does anybody know what alternatives might exist to the conventional
'Sodastream' refill bottles.

We rather like a drop of fizzy water - and, back in the UK, it was
fairly easy to get refilled CO2 bottles.

However, out here in the wilds of West Cork (Ireland) - we're faced
with a 1.5hour journey into Cork city to swap out our Sodastream
bottles. OK - so we have a few 'spares' - so we only have to do the
journey every coule of months - but it's a journey that we wouldn't
otherwise do...

So - possible thoughts included

a) Buy / rent / whatever a bigger CO2 bottle (?pub supply?) and the
necessary 'pipery' to dump small doses of CO2 liquid into the
Sodastream bottles ourselves.
Not sure how practical or safe this might be.....

b) Maybe the 'pipery' exists to feed the Sodastream dinks maker
directly from a bigger gas bottle.....?

How does the big CO2 bottle thing work - do you buy one or maybe hire
it....?

Just wondering if anybody's been down this path before, or could make
any suggestions...

Many thanks
Adrian

On 27 Mar 2007 04:38:33 -0700, "Andy Dingley"
wrote:

On 27 Mar, 09:38, wrote:
One of my most used tools in the garage is my compressor as an air
blower. But I keep thinking how much I would like a portable version..
SOmething like a "Recharable Air Blower" which I could fill from my
compressor.

Do the maths. You can't do this for workshop pressures and store a
useful amount of energy in a bottle small enough to be portable. For
anything smaller than a zeppelin, you get two nails and it's flattened
again.

Your dive bottle is designed for a squillion psi. Like all HP air
systems outside submarines, it only needs a moderate mass airflow and
so the passageways are deliberately designed to be tiny. If you did
use it, you wouldn't get enough volume airflow out of it to drive an
air tool.

If you use a dive bottle anywhere around its design pressure, you need
to design a HP air system. You're on your own there!

If you even use a dive bottle there are problems. Just turning it into
a plantpot involves paperwork that makes CORGI look like Blue Peter.
You have to destroy the cylinder by the official protocol (making sure
you don't turn you and your bandsaw into a small sticky mess when it
turns out to have still had pressure in it). You're also _really_
prohibited from modifying SCBA kit - if you do anything with it, you
first have to "de-mil" it and make it entirely certain it can't ever
be confused again with use for its original purpose. Then there's the
legal aspect of getting your arse sued off by angry cylinder
companies.... (DAMHIKT)

I only know of one guy who I'd regard as competent (legally and
technically) to dispose of a SCBA cylinder appropriately, and
certainly none of the divers (the cave divers are beyond hope anyway).
And that's picked from a circle of people with fairly fearsome
attitudes to what's possible in a shed.

In practical terms, compressed gas just ain't going to work (unless
you're back to squillion psi). If you _must_, then you need to store
liquid instead. More stored mass means more stored energy. CO2 is
practical here, for small values of practical.

Also a SCBA cylinder is the wrong thing (and a dive bottle is, I
understand, even worse). You can't get the volume airflow out of it.
There's another obvious source though, pub CO2 cylinders.

wouldn't get enough volume airflow out of it to drive an
air tool.

If you use a dive bottle anywhere around its design pressure, you need
to design a HP air system. You're on your own there!


I think that you completely missed my point.. My compressor holds 100L
at 8 bar.. I know from experinece that even a 25L will hold enough air
to do a fair amount of work between charges.

My idea is simply to charge a dive cylinder to 8bar so that I have a
VERY small amount of air, which is mobile.. I realise that I am not
going to get much out of it, but figured that for my needs (i.e a few
second of puff, or an odd staple) it might work.

I realise that a Dive Cylinder is high pressure (232 or 300bar to be
exact), and thats why its got a very tiny hold in the value... .But I
am simply talking about using it for an 8 bar application!

I have actually taken the valve out and now have an threaded opening
in the top of the cylinder which is approx 7/10" wide.

As I said, I am not expecting much. 1/2L of air at 8 bar is going to
give me almost nothing.. But it should be enough for what I want. As I
said i am not expecting to hget hours of air.. Nor even minutes or
perhaps even seconds.. But I should simply be able to blow something
out of it.

Jon

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Hi All

Sort of off topic - but along similar lines......
and you all seem to know what you're talking about..... g

Does anybody know what alternatives might exist to the conventional
'Sodastream' refill bottles.

We rather like a drop of fizzy water - and, back in the UK, it was
fairly easy to get refilled CO2 bottles.

However, out here in the wilds of West Cork (Ireland) - we're faced
with a 1.5hour journey into Cork city to swap out our Sodastream
bottles. OK - so we have a few 'spares' - so we only have to do the
journey every coule of months - but it's a journey that we wouldn't
otherwise do...

So - possible thoughts included

a) Buy / rent / whatever a bigger CO2 bottle (?pub supply?) and the
necessary 'pipery' to dump small doses of CO2 liquid into the
Sodastream bottles ourselves.
Not sure how practical or safe this might be.....

b) Maybe the 'pipery' exists to feed the Sodastream dinks maker
directly from a bigger gas bottle.....?

How does the big CO2 bottle thing work - do you buy one or maybe hire
it....?

Just wondering if anybody's been down this path before, or could make
any suggestions...

Many thanks
Adrian

Adrian,

The issue with the Sodastream using larger bottles is one of pressure
release at the correct time.
The lever/button on mine ( Fizz on line model ) depresses the centre valve
on the bottle to allow gas through.
With a direct connection to the unit you would need some form of valve that
operates in conjunction with the button being pressed.
Now, since we are thinking along the same lines, you could ask a friendly
local engineering shop to thread the base of the existing bottle and add a
suitable connector for a feed from a larger "Pb" sized one.
Alternatively a side mounted adapter would work if welded on.
Also if you can remove the top valve you could possibly have a tail attached
to allow connection to a larger bottle.

The Sodastream website http://tinyurl.com/2393or suggests

"Our new large and extra large Alco2Jet aluminium cylinders work only with
our certain drinksmakers. See below if your drinksmaker is compatible. If
not, call our customer care centre about our upgrade offers: 0800 085 8373"
so you can have delivery direct.

I've used Sodastream regularly since I was 17 and I'm now 47....Good stuff
for cheap and enjoyable drinks.

HI R

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:35:48 +0100, "R" wrote:


"Adrian" wrote in message
.. .
Hi All

Sort of off topic - but along similar lines......
and you all seem to know what you're talking about..... g

Does anybody know what alternatives might exist to the conventional
'Sodastream' refill bottles.

We rather like a drop of fizzy water - and, back in the UK, it was
fairly easy to get refilled CO2 bottles.

However, out here in the wilds of West Cork (Ireland) - we're faced
with a 1.5hour journey into Cork city to swap out our Sodastream
bottles. OK - so we have a few 'spares' - so we only have to do the
journey every coule of months - but it's a journey that we wouldn't
otherwise do...

So - possible thoughts included

a) Buy / rent / whatever a bigger CO2 bottle (?pub supply?) and the
necessary 'pipery' to dump small doses of CO2 liquid into the
Sodastream bottles ourselves.
Not sure how practical or safe this might be.....

b) Maybe the 'pipery' exists to feed the Sodastream dinks maker
directly from a bigger gas bottle.....?

How does the big CO2 bottle thing work - do you buy one or maybe hire
it....?

Just wondering if anybody's been down this path before, or could make
any suggestions...

Many thanks
Adrian

Adrian,

The issue with the Sodastream using larger bottles is one of pressure
release at the correct time.
The lever/button on mine ( Fizz on line model ) depresses the centre valve
on the bottle to allow gas through.
With a direct connection to the unit you would need some form of valve that
operates in conjunction with the button being pressed.

OK - understand

Now, since we are thinking along the same lines, you could ask a friendly
local engineering shop to thread the base of the existing bottle and add a
suitable connector for a feed from a larger "Pb" sized one.
Alternatively a side mounted adapter would work if welded on.
Also if you can remove the top valve you could possibly have a tail attached
to allow connection to a larger bottle.

Ah - I see where you're going with this...


The Sodastream website http://tinyurl.com/2393or suggests

"Our new large and extra large Alco2Jet aluminium cylinders work only with
our certain drinksmakers. See below if your drinksmaker is compatible. If
not, call our customer care centre about our upgrade offers: 0800 085 8373"
so you can have delivery direct.

Yes - but not Ireland.
Frankly - I've found Sodastream Customer Care to about as much use as
whatsits on a bull..... totally clueless......

Last time I asked them they couldn't tell me very much about anything.
So I phoned Tesco, who were equally clueless - claimed that there were
no replacement bottles in Ireland at all....

......then I phoned one of the Cork branches of Tesco who had large
stocks of the things - but it's just a pain to travel to Cork only to
get the cylinders exchanged...

Any thoughts about refilling the Sodastream cylinders from a larger
CO2 bottle ?? Wonder if that's feasible / safe / worth doing ??

Thanks
Adrian

could you use an oxygen cylinder similar to those on small portapack
oxy/acetylene welder,I think they are 5/8" bull nose,if you can also source
on old regulator the take out the bull nose and I think the thread into the
regulator body is 1/4" bsp.The cylinder is probaly rated at 100 bar.
wrote in message
ups.com...
One of my most used tools in the garage is my compressor as an air
blower. But I keep thinking how much I would like a portable version..
SOmething like a "Recharable Air Blower" which I could fill from my
compressor.

As an ex-diver, I had an idea.. I have a small (perhaps 1/2l) air
bottle and I figured that with the correct fittings, I could connect
it to my cylinder and fill it. As my project developed, I realised
that if I fitted a standard 'quick release' fitting to the top of the
bottle. I could use it to power ANY tool.. Obviously its not going to
give much air, but certainly enough to drive in a few staples for
example.

The idea is sound, but trying to get the fittings has proved
impossible.

The thread in the bottle is 7/10" (not sure if 7/10" is right, but
thats what my calipers say it is) but no-one that I have found stocks
anyhting like this, which will convert to BSP.. Once its in a BSP
thread, I already have plenty of adaptors which will let me hook it
up.

So, the question is, can I get a adaptor to convert the thread on the
bottle to BSP?

If not, where could I get a small bottle (1L) which is capable of
holding a measly 8bar which has a suitable thread?

I look forwards to your thoughts

Jon

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:35:41 +0100, AJH
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:37:44 +0100, Tom Woods
wrote:

That will probably have a sensible sized thread on it already. The one
hanging on the wall in my office at work looks very similar to the
fittings on my pub gas co2 bottle (which are avaialble from welding
suppliers).

Exactly the same on the one attached to my mig welder ;-)

Thats what i meant!

Do the maths. You can't do this for workshop pressures and store a
useful amount of energy in a bottle small enough to be portable. For
anything smaller than a zeppelin, you get two nails and it's flattened
again.


Well. I have to say.. You were right

I managed to find a supplier of 'adaptors' and after shelling out £6
for a couple of parts to convert my bottle thread to one suitable to
fit my quick fit connector. I assembled the puzzle of parts with
copious amount of PTFE and connected it to my compressor.

I opened the tap, heard the air going in, removed it and connected my
air blower tool.. When I pulled the trigger, I litterally got a single
PUFF!! Nothing more than a long breath of air blown from your mouth.

I was clearly wrong about this.. A 1/2L bottle is not nearly big
enough to give any amount of air worth talking about.

My decision now is simply to scrap the idea as stupid, or seek out a
slightly larger bottle (perhasp 2L+) and try again!

Jon

On Mar 28, 1:35 pm, wrote:
Do the maths. You can't do this for workshop pressures and store a
useful amount of energy in a bottle small enough to be portable. For
anything smaller than a zeppelin, you get two nails and it's flattened
again.

Well. I have to say.. You were right

I managed to find a supplier of 'adaptors' and after shelling out £6
for a couple of parts to convert my bottle thread to one suitable to
fit my quick fit connector. I assembled the puzzle of parts with
copious amount of PTFE and connected it to my compressor.

I opened the tap, heard the air going in, removed it and connected my
air blower tool.. When I pulled the trigger, I litterally got a single
PUFF!! Nothing more than a long breath of air blown from your mouth.

I was clearly wrong about this.. A 1/2L bottle is not nearly big
enough to give any amount of air worth talking about.

My decision now is simply to scrap the idea as stupid, or seek out a
slightly larger bottle (perhasp 2L+) and try again!

Jon

I'm sure I've seen what look more like 2L divers emergency air bottles
and they must contain more than a long breath of air.

wrote in message
oups.com...

I was clearly wrong about this.. A 1/2L bottle is not nearly big
enough to give any amount of air worth talking about.

..5L at 8 bars is 4 litres. Aka "bugger all".

My decision now is simply to scrap the idea as stupid, or seek out a
slightly larger bottle (perhasp 2L+) and try again!

Even 2L won't give you that much. 8 bar is just too low pressure.

cheers,
clive

On 28 Mar 2007 05:35:38 -0700, wrote:

My decision now is simply to scrap the idea as stupid, or seek out a
slightly larger bottle (perhasp 2L+) and try again!

Do the maths.

If you really have to, do it by experiment. Fill your compressor tank
and switch off. Then use that until it's empty. Divide that by the
capacity of that tank over the capacity of your portable tank.

There's a _reason_ why SCBA kit needs to run at a squillion psi.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:09:36 +0100, Adrian
wrote:

Now, since we are thinking along the same lines, you could ask a friendly
local engineering shop to thread the base of the existing bottle and add a
suitable connector for a feed from a larger "Pb" sized one.
Alternatively a side mounted adapter would work if welded on.
Also if you can remove the top valve you could possibly have a tail attached
to allow connection to a larger bottle.

Ah - I see where you're going with this...

I would be tempted to go for this approach.

Any thoughts about refilling the Sodastream cylinders from a larger
CO2 bottle ?? Wonder if that's feasible / safe / worth doing ??

as an idea of price. I've bought a pub co2 bottle for my mig welder
(from a welding shop). It cost about £45 for a full bottle and all the
required regulators and pipework (more regulators than you probably
need since i can adjust the flow rate and i dont think a sodastream
would need to - you can possibly just get away with the on/off tap
built into the top of the gas bottle).
It now costs me £12.50 to get the bottle refilled with 4.5kg or so of
gas.

Hi Tom

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:22:36 +0100, Tom Woods
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:09:36 +0100, Adrian
wrote:

Now, since we are thinking along the same lines, you could ask a friendly
local engineering shop to thread the base of the existing bottle and add a
suitable connector for a feed from a larger "Pb" sized one.
Alternatively a side mounted adapter would work if welded on.
Also if you can remove the top valve you could possibly have a tail attached
to allow connection to a larger bottle.

Ah - I see where you're going with this...

I would be tempted to go for this approach.

Any thoughts about refilling the Sodastream cylinders from a larger
CO2 bottle ?? Wonder if that's feasible / safe / worth doing ??

as an idea of price. I've bought a pub co2 bottle for my mig welder
(from a welding shop). It cost about £45 for a full bottle and all the
required regulators and pipework (more regulators than you probably
need since i can adjust the flow rate and i dont think a sodastream
would need to - you can possibly just get away with the on/off tap
built into the top of the gas bottle).
It now costs me £12.50 to get the bottle refilled with 4.5kg or so of
gas.

That sounds like a very cost-effective way of buying gas.....

I've got a vague recollection of seeing somewhere on the net (possibly
in the States) where they sold a length of pipe with a 'sodastream'
valve on the end of it - the other end to connect to a high capacity
gas bottle.... must try & remember where that was !

Thanks
Adrian

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Hi Tom

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:22:36 +0100, Tom Woods
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:09:36 +0100, Adrian
wrote:

Now, since we are thinking along the same lines, you could ask a
friendly
local engineering shop to thread the base of the existing bottle and add
a
suitable connector for a feed from a larger "Pb" sized one.
Alternatively a side mounted adapter would work if welded on.
Also if you can remove the top valve you could possibly have a tail
attached
to allow connection to a larger bottle.

Ah - I see where you're going with this...

I would be tempted to go for this approach.

Any thoughts about refilling the Sodastream cylinders from a larger
CO2 bottle ?? Wonder if that's feasible / safe / worth doing ??

as an idea of price. I've bought a pub co2 bottle for my mig welder
(from a welding shop). It cost about £45 for a full bottle and all the
required regulators and pipework (more regulators than you probably
need since i can adjust the flow rate and i dont think a sodastream
would need to - you can possibly just get away with the on/off tap
built into the top of the gas bottle).
It now costs me £12.50 to get the bottle refilled with 4.5kg or so of
gas.

That sounds like a very cost-effective way of buying gas.....

I've got a vague recollection of seeing somewhere on the net (possibly
in the States) where they sold a length of pipe with a 'sodastream'
valve on the end of it - the other end to connect to a high capacity
gas bottle.... must try & remember where that was !

I saw that idea.....Google Paintball gun gas etc