"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...

By "gas installation job" do you means mains gas (if available) or
propane cylinders outside? The latter shouldn't cost a great deal and
...

No, I meant in most cases it's a job for a Corgi installer. Naturally
if there's no mains gas it costs even more.

You may be surprised - a couple of propane bottles, a regulator and a
length of pipe is remarkably easy to arrange, and really quite cheap.
Definitely cheaper than getting BG to install a hob, though that's
probably not saying much.

But the gas costs more and there's the inconvenience and ****ible expense
of exchanging the empty bottle for a new one.

Gas hobs use bugger all. Which means a) the cost is small and b) the hassle
of swapping bottles is small. Not sure what you mean about expense of
swapping empty bottle for new one - that's the gas, surely?

(What happens here is SWMBO takes the empty cylinder off, puts it in her
bike trailer, cycles to the gas supplier, gets a new one, cycles home and
fits it. I suspect if we wanted the gas supplier would deliver and possibly
even connect for not much money at all.)

cheers,
clive

TheScullster wrote:
Hi all

My mrs was complaining last night about the size of the old leccy
bill. Can anyone give their experience of similar property cost and
usage please?
Last quarter cost was about 311GBP.

Detached 4 Bed house
2 Adults 2 kids
Mostly energy saver bulbs
Gas heating - no electric fans/fires
Electric Cooking
2 TVs
2 Computers
Tumble drier, washing m/c and dishwasher all in daily use

Try to keep lights to a minimum but you know what kids are!

Any thoughts?

Phil

Get rid of the leccy cooker and buy a gas one, it's dirt cheap, regardless
of the recent price hikes.

"Clive George" wrote in message
...

But the gas costs more and there's the inconvenience and ****ible expense
of exchanging the empty bottle for a new one.

Gas hobs use bugger all.

They do use it though. Even just using two hobs in our caravans entails
changing the cylinders from time to time.

Which means a) the cost is small

Propane is still more expensive than mains gas.

and b) the hassle of swapping bottles is small.

It takes time for the trip to whever you have to change them.

Not sure what you mean about expense of swapping empty bottle for new
one - that's the gas, surely?

Few people could carry a cylinder of any sensible size even when it's empty,
that means that there's an motoring expense for most of us. You also need
(by law) some means of strapping down the cylinder in your vehicle.

(What happens here is SWMBO takes the empty cylinder off, puts it in her
bike trailer, cycles to the gas supplier, gets a new one, cycles home and
fits it. I suspect if we wanted the gas supplier would deliver and
possibly even connect for not much money at all.)

She wouldn't be able to do that with a cylinder of any size, which means
that you're paying more for the gas to start with. And doesn't her time have
a value? Or will you say that she needs they exercise.

Get on your own bike!

Mary

cheers,
clive

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Clive George" wrote in message
...

But the gas costs more and there's the inconvenience and ****ible
expense of exchanging the empty bottle for a new one.

Gas hobs use bugger all.

They do use it though. Even just using two hobs in our caravans entails
changing the cylinders from time to time.

You probably use rather smaller cylinders than we do, hence need to change
more often.

Which means a) the cost is small

Propane is still more expensive than mains gas.

What do you think the running costs of a propane gas hob per year are? It's
about 30 quid/year for us - ie any savings from mains gas are tiny. Of
course if there was mains gas available, I'd use it, but I'm talking about
when there isn't.

and b) the hassle of swapping bottles is small.

It takes time for the trip to whever you have to change them.

Once every six months. That's not much hassle.

Not sure what you mean about expense of swapping empty bottle for new
one - that's the gas, surely?

Few people could carry a cylinder of any sensible size even when it's
empty, that means that there's an motoring expense for most of us. You
also need (by law) some means of strapping down the cylinder in your
vehicle.

The cylinders we use aren't the 47kg ones - most people could carry ours.
Motoring expense? Only if you make a special journey, rather than combining
it with say a trip to the supermarket.
Ok, possibly not elderly/infirm - but I did mention that our gas supplier
would probably deliver for what would be a very small fee.
Strapping down cylinder? Stick it in the boot or the footwell, sorted.
Carrying it a couple of miles to the gas shop is a bit different from taking
it for a several hundred mile caravan tour.

(What happens here is SWMBO takes the empty cylinder off, puts it in her
bike trailer, cycles to the gas supplier, gets a new one, cycles home and
fits it. I suspect if we wanted the gas supplier would deliver and
possibly even connect for not much money at all.)

She wouldn't be able to do that with a cylinder of any size, which means
that you're paying more for the gas to start with.

She can do it with a cylinder which provides us with 6 months gas. Can't
remember if it's a 13kg or 19kg one. Whatever it is, the gas isn't
expensive, no matter how much you may insist it is - it's not a camping
size, which probably skews it towards a sensible price.

And doesn't her time have a value? Or will you say that she needs they
exercise.

Are you sure you're not Andy Hall? You're sounding somewhat like him with
excuses for not doing things because they take too much of ones valuable
time. You're creating problems where there aren't any - any idea why?
(FWIW time on bike = quality time, so the journey isn't wasted)

cheers,
clive

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:23:24 -0000, "Clive George"
wrote:


|
|What do you think the running costs of a propane gas hob per year are? It's
|about 30 quid/year for us

We use that amount in the caravan, which is only used a few weeks in a
year.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:23:24 -0000, "Clive George"
wrote:


|
|What do you think the running costs of a propane gas hob per year are?
It's
|about 30 quid/year for us

We use that amount in the caravan, which is only used a few weeks in a
year.

Hob only? What size cylinders? How much do they cost to refill?

cheers,
clive

Dave Liquorice wrote:
The dishwasher will take a bit when heating the water, dishwashers are
generally cold fill only. The washer may well be hot and cold and won't
be heating the water electrically unless doing a really hot wash,
unlikely for most washes these days.

In fact it's often the opposite (almost) on newer machines - ours is
cold fill only on most programs, only using the hot on 60+. Even then
it barely has time to run hot before it's full, so much of the heating
is electric.

Chris


--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

On 2007-01-12, Mary Fisher wrote:

Is that a "real" electric bill or an estimate? Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

But you pay bills in arrears ...

If you pay monthly based on the supplier's supposed estimate of your
annual consumption, the company will overestimate it in order to get
your account to run up a credit balance --- which is effectively an
interest-free loan. This is especially true if you give them a Direct
Debit mandate so they can unilaterally raise the monthly payment:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_j...478152,00.html

For the companies they are a boon. They dramatically improve their
cash positions, are easy to administer, and significantly lower the
cost of collecting their revenue. They also exploit customer
inertia because studies show they are less likely to switch
suppliers.

But according to one former executive of a utility company who did
not wish to be named, debit payments have become very lucrative for
the companies using them.

"They sell it on the basis that it easier for the customer ---
which is true --- but what they don't tell you is that it is now a
major source of income for them. They always try to sign up
customers to direct debits in spring when usage is at its
lowest. This gives the customer a chance to build up a healthy
balance, which not only improves their cash flow, but it also gives
them a large sum to use to generate an income. Some firms give
customers paying by direct debit a discount, but many don't."



Estimated meter readings are almost always high as well, for the same
reason.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Grunff wrote:
TheScullster wrote:

Thanks Grunff, but what's a CF bulb?

A Compact Fluorescent - a low energy bulb.


carbon fibre?
:-)

Compact Flash?

(if faulty, could be....)

--
Adrian C

"Dave Liquorice" typed


On 12 Jan 2007 07:32:38 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

It works out about £30/quarter less than our previous supplier.
Possibly not the cheapest, but my statement is accurate!

I can well believe it. There was a thread not that long ago where prices
of 15p/unit where quoted, I couldn't believe that such rates were out
there until I looked. I guess inertia, horror stories of fupped up
paperwork and lack of understanding of the "opened up market" means, stop
people shopping around.

My 'primary' units are 16.66p (1/7 of my usage), my secondary are 9.24p.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"TheScullster" typed



"Robert Laws" wrote


Sorry if this is an obvious question, but are you sure the bills are
based on real readings. Sometimes estimated readings can be very wrong.

No these are based on genuine readings according to er indoors.
As a point of interest, we have just received notification that our supply
company want to change the meter on the 18th of this month.
That could prove interesting!

Phil


We had ours changed last year. Ok apart from having to reboot computers.

My electricity bill is precisely half the OP's.

Our insulated 3-bedroom semi houses two adults, a gas cooker, no tumble
drier, gas CH, a cold-fill washer used 2-3 times per week and no
dishwasher.

Seems about right to me.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:14:01 UTC, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:

We had ours changed last year. Ok apart from having to reboot computers.

Our was changed a few months ago, to one of the new digital ones with
the flashing light. No perceptible change in recorded consumption.

And we *didn't* reboot any of the computers!

I don't think the original bill is that far out from what I'd expect,
but the tumble dryer gives room for improvement.

This has saved us quite a bit, making up for the 6 computers permanently
on...

https://www.sheilamaid.com/
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 2007-01-12 19:11:37 +0000, Adam Funk said:

On 2007-01-12, Mary Fisher wrote:

Is that a "real" electric bill or an estimate? Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

But you pay bills in arrears ...

If you pay monthly based on the supplier's supposed estimate of your
annual consumption, the company will overestimate it in order to get
your account to run up a credit balance --- which is effectively an
interest-free loan. This is especially true if you give them a Direct
Debit mandate so they can unilaterally raise the monthly payment:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian_j...478152,00.html

For the companies they are a boon. They dramatically improve their
cash positions, are easy to administer, and significantly lower the
cost of collecting their revenue. They also exploit customer
inertia because studies show they are less likely to switch
suppliers.

But according to one former executive of a utility company who did
not wish to be named, debit payments have become very lucrative for
the companies using them.

"They sell it on the basis that it easier for the customer ---
which is true --- but what they don't tell you is that it is now a
major source of income for them. They always try to sign up
customers to direct debits in spring when usage is at its
lowest. This gives the customer a chance to build up a healthy
balance, which not only improves their cash flow, but it also gives
them a large sum to use to generate an income. Some firms give
customers paying by direct debit a discount, but many don't."



Estimated meter readings are almost always high as well, for the same
reason.

It's very easy to turn the tables on this game. I've done it
effectively with energy suppliers through changes of supplier as
follows:

- Look at the pattern of energy use and the quarterly billed cost over
the previous year
I find that electricity usage varies relatively little from year to
year - most variation is with gas usage
depending on the weather for the most part.

- The suggested monthly payments are generally padded by a good 10-20%,
the estimates are sometimes.

- I take the actual usage figures, and offer the supplier a monthly
payment based on a twelfth of the previous year's usage and at the
prevailing price at the time of annual review, less about 2-3%.
Typically they squeak and have to speak to the supervisor. My
response is a take it or leave it - there are always other suppliers
within a few pounds, and it can quite easily be that another ends up
cheaper if pattern of use through weather changes.

- The effect of this at the end of the year is that unless it is a
light usage year and no price increases, I owe them some amount of
money. This is a far more satisfactory state of affairs than
lending it to them. If they make a price increase during the year,
they do not start receiving payment for it until the following year.

- At the next annual review, I repeat the process but add the
outstanding balance into the projected payment for the year. This has
the effect of amortising that payment over the year. Again more
squeaking, but always accepted.

- I do a supplier review quarterly, but rather than looking purely at
the presented figures, factor in the loss of interest on paying off the
incumbent supplier as well; although generally that is not a
substantial sum.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:10:36 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

I can well believe it. There was a thread not that long ago where
prices of 15p/unit where quoted, I couldn't believe that such rates
were out there until I looked.

My 'primary' units are 16.66p (1/7 of my usage), my secondary are
9.24p.

There are tarrifs out there with secondary or normal rates at the 15p
level. Not just the primary ones. I still don't understand what
attraction there is for these "no standing charge" tarrifs is. I guess if
your not going to use all your primary allocation each quarter and your
useage is higher than that that makes EBICO uneconomic there might be a
small gain.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Chris Hodges" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The dishwasher will take a bit when heating the water, dishwashers are
generally cold fill only. The washer may well be hot and cold and won't
be heating the water electrically unless doing a really hot wash,
unlikely for most washes these days.

In fact it's often the opposite (almost) on newer machines - ours is cold
fill only on most programs, only using the hot on 60+. Even then it
barely has time to run hot before it's full, so much of the heating is
electric.

I was going to make this last point at the end of your first
sentence :-(

I've never been inside one (!) but ISTM that a DW fill is about
three cups full of water for each part of the cycle (perhaps
someone knows if that is right).

Using hot water will mean that all you do is draw off the cold
into the machine, leaving the hot to stand in the pipes going
cold before the next fill.

I can't see that using hot fill is going to be more efficient
than a cold fill for 99% of houses?

tim

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
On 2007-01-12, Mary Fisher wrote:

Is that a "real" electric bill or an estimate? Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

But you pay bills in arrears ...

If you pay monthly based on the supplier's supposed estimate of your
annual consumption, the company will overestimate it in order to get
your account to run up a credit balance --- which is effectively an
interest-free loan. This is especially true if you give them a Direct
Debit mandate so they can unilaterally raise the monthly payment:

This has been discussed lots of times, once recently. You have control over
direct debits. There's no need to pay more than you need.

Mary

On 2007-01-12 23:25:07 +0000, "tim....." said:


"Chris Hodges" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The dishwasher will take a bit when heating the water, dishwashers are
generally cold fill only. The washer may well be hot and cold and won't
be heating the water electrically unless doing a really hot wash,
unlikely for most washes these days.

In fact it's often the opposite (almost) on newer machines - ours is
cold fill only on most programs, only using the hot on 60+. Even then
it barely has time to run hot before it's full, so much of the heating
is electric.

I was going to make this last point at the end of your first
sentence :-(

I've never been inside one (!) but ISTM that a DW fill is about
three cups full of water for each part of the cycle (perhaps
someone knows if that is right).

Using hot water will mean that all you do is draw off the cold
into the machine, leaving the hot to stand in the pipes going
cold before the next fill.

I can't see that using hot fill is going to be more efficient
than a cold fill for 99% of houses?

tim

There is also a purpose to having a cold fill for dishwashers. That
is that if you immediately hit items with hot water, you are likely to
set any proteins on them making removal much harder.

It is therefore much better to fill with cold water and have that
pumped and sprayed around as it's gradually heated.

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:46:53 +0000 someone who may be Adam Funk
wrote this:-

Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

Indeed, but not always. I am currently having a row with a utility
company because I want to pay them more than on their "highly
accurate [1]" estimated bill. This appears to cause them great
confusion. As far as I can see they are all incompetent.

[1] their phrase, not mine.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:46:53 +0000 someone who may be Adam Funk
wrote this:-

Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

Indeed, but not always. I am currently having a row with a utility
company because I want to pay them more than on their "highly
accurate [1]" estimated bill. This appears to cause them great
confusion. As far as I can see they are all incompetent.

That hasn't been my experience. We've found all our utilities to be fair and
efficient, sensible and polite at all times.

Mary

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:14:01 GMT someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht wrote this:-

Our insulated 3-bedroom semi houses two adults, a gas cooker, no tumble
drier, gas CH, a cold-fill washer used 2-3 times per week and no
dishwasher.

Tumble driers do gobble up energy. If someone feels they have to
have one then they are well advised to get a gas fired one.

Alternatively clothes can be put on a line outside or inside, a rack
(the victorian style someone has pointed to is great in the right
place), or a heated rail.


Used properly dishwashers are not particularly energy or water
intensive. Heating up a bowl of water takes energy as well. For
small households that means having a small dishwasher rather than a
big one.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2007-01-13 09:42:16 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:46:53 +0000 someone who may be Adam Funk
wrote this:-

Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

Indeed, but not always. I am currently having a row with a utility
company because I want to pay them more than on their "highly
accurate [1]" estimated bill. This appears to cause them great
confusion. As far as I can see they are all incompetent.

[1] their phrase, not mine.

Why on earth would one want to do that?

It's understood that they are incompetent.

If they don't want to show up and read the meter and underestimate readings
and those readings are low than actual, then they should expect to receive less
money. When they do read the meter, the situation will be corrected
and they'll get their
money.

If they want to lend money interest free, that makes buying from them
somewhat more attractive.

On 2007-01-13 10:07:19 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:14:01 GMT someone who may be Helen Deborah
Vecht wrote this:-

Our insulated 3-bedroom semi houses two adults, a gas cooker, no tumble
drier, gas CH, a cold-fill washer used 2-3 times per week and no
dishwasher.

Tumble driers do gobble up energy. If someone feels they have to
have one then they are well advised to get a gas fired one.

... provided that one can find a well made and reliable one. I have
never identified
such a product



Alternatively clothes can be put on a line outside or inside, a rack
(the victorian style someone has pointed to is great in the right
place), or a heated rail.

... and produce condensation in their hermetically sealed homes.



Used properly dishwashers are not particularly energy or water
intensive. Heating up a bowl of water takes energy as well. For
small households that means having a small dishwasher rather than a
big one.

... or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a dishwasher
able to run part loads.

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:27:02 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Alternatively clothes can be put on a line outside or inside, a rack
(the victorian style someone has pointed to is great in the right
place), or a heated rail.

.. and produce condensation in their hermetically sealed homes.

I can't think of any hermetically sealed homes. In fact I can think
of very few hermetically sealed buildings either.

Of course those drying clothes inside need to make suitable
ventilation arrangements.

Used properly dishwashers are not particularly energy or water
intensive. Heating up a bowl of water takes energy as well. For
small households that means having a small dishwasher rather than a
big one.

.. or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a dishwasher
able to run part loads.

Even clothes washing machines don't halve the energy consumption
with a half load button. It is even more difficult with a dishwasher
due to the lower water content.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Andy Hall wrote:

.. or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a
dishwasher
able to run part loads.



Or get off your fat arse and do the washing up in the sink. You never
know, you might meet the wife

On 2007-01-13 11:41:12 +0000, David Hansen
said:


Used properly dishwashers are not particularly energy or water
intensive. Heating up a bowl of water takes energy as well. For
small households that means having a small dishwasher rather than a
big one.

.. or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a dishwasher
able to run part loads.

Even clothes washing machines don't halve the energy consumption
with a half load button. It is even more difficult with a dishwasher
due to the lower water content.

It doesn't need to be halved.

If it's reduced somewhat then that's reasonable. On mine, it reduces
to about 2/3 of normal.

In any event, the electricity consumption is quite small because water
content is small in modern machines.
I checked the spec. on mine and even on the most intensive 75 degree
program it only uses 17 litres and 1.7kWh, which I don't regard as a
lot at all.

On 2007-01-13 12:01:31 +0000, Stuart Noble said:

Andy Hall wrote:

.. or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a dishwasher
able to run part loads.



Or get off your fat arse and do the washing up in the sink.

Not as hygienic. It's difficult to deal with water at 75 degrees,
even with Marigolds.

You never know, you might meet the wife

I'd rather meet her somewhere else other than at the sink. She agrees.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-13 12:01:31 +0000, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:

.. or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a
dishwasher
able to run part loads.



Or get off your fat arse and do the washing up in the sink.

Not as hygienic. It's difficult to deal with water at 75 degrees,
even with Marigolds.

I thought the current thinking was that we have rather too much hygiene
in the home.
Babies put everything in their mouths to check the taste. One wonders
how any of us survive.


You never know, you might meet the wife

I'd rather meet her somewhere else other than at the sink. She agrees.

But you asked her just to make sure :-)

On 2007-01-13 15:00:13 +0000, Stuart Noble said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-01-13 12:01:31 +0000, Stuart Noble said:

Andy Hall wrote:

.. or use more crockery and run the machine less often, or use a dishwasher
able to run part loads.



Or get off your fat arse and do the washing up in the sink.

Not as hygienic. It's difficult to deal with water at 75 degrees,
even with Marigolds.

I thought the current thinking was that we have rather too much hygiene
in the home.
Babies put everything in their mouths to check the taste. One wonders
how any of us survive.

There's truth in what you say, of course. However, washing things in
hand hot water where there has been food around is likely to impart
quite a lot of bacteria




You never know, you might meet the wife

I'd rather meet her somewhere else other than at the sink. She agrees.

But you asked her just to make sure :-)

Naturally, although she did ask for the ball and chain to be undone first.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-01-13 09:42:16 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:46:53 +0000 someone who may be Adam Funk
wrote this:-

Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

Indeed, but not always. I am currently having a row with a utility
company because I want to pay them more than on their "highly
accurate [1]" estimated bill. This appears to cause them great
confusion. As far as I can see they are all incompetent.

[1] their phrase, not mine.

Why on earth would one want to do that?

because the rate goes up next month and you will have
to pay for some electricity that you have already used
at the new rate, if the current bill is low.

tim

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On 11 Jan 2007 22:20:00 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

That should of course be "Sheila Maid". And our bill is about £250 a
quarter, possibly less now we're with Ebico.

Are you sure? EBICO are good for low users but not so good for those that
will always use the first N units of a "no standing charge" tarrif and at
£230/qtr you will be doing that easyly. You may as well shop for the
lowest unit price you can find and ignore the standing charge element.

I have EquiPower for the barn and cottage as they are very low use whilst
being refurbished and the standing charges of normal tarrifs dwarfed the
useage. Scottish Power provides our main consumption. Standard Equipower
is 9.81p/unit here v 7.191p/unit on Scottish. Scottish standing charge is
12.39p/day so if I use more than 4.73 units/day on Equipower that is the
more expensive tarrif. Your spend of £250/qtr probably means about 25
units/day that works out at about 50p/day more expensive or £45/qtr...

You seem to have done extraordinarily well.

For me EBICO is 9.53p and the best offer from Uswitch is
8.91 plus a standing charge of 15.00 per quater. (so the break
even is 2500 units per quarter, which is rather a lot)

Yes, I may be able to find something cheaper. But it's the
finding that's the problem. (It's only after I decided who to
switch to that I discoved that Uswitch doesn't have all
companies in their database)

tim

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
TheScullster wrote:

As a point of interest, we have just received notification that
our supply company want to change the meter on the 18th of this
month. That could prove interesting!

Make a note of the serial number and reading of
both the old and new meters at time of changeover.
If they make a cockup on the next bill you are
stuffed without this independant record.

they should give you an official form with it on.

TBH if they make a mistake you are stuffed without this form.

tim

On 2007-01-13 18:59:33 +0000, "tim....." said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message ...
On 2007-01-13 09:42:16 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:46:53 +0000 someone who may be Adam Funk
wrote this:-

Utility companies
routinely overestimate so they can get interest-free loans from their
customers.

Indeed, but not always. I am currently having a row with a utility
company because I want to pay them more than on their "highly
accurate [1]" estimated bill. This appears to cause them great
confusion. As far as I can see they are all incompetent.

[1] their phrase, not mine.

Why on earth would one want to do that?

because the rate goes up next month and you will have
to pay for some electricity that you have already used
at the new rate, if the current bill is low.

tim

It was really the *pay* aspect that I was querying.

Granted it makes sense to provide a reading at reality if the estimate
is too low at the point of price change
in order to lock in a lower rate for what was actually used.

However, *paying* them for it is a completely separate issue.

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:19:56 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

I thought the current thinking was that we have rather too much
hygiene in the home.

Some homes, we don't allow any products that have built in bactericides
into the house. We wipe the work surfaces down everyday but with the
washing up sponge that shock horror gets replaced when it wears out.

Washing up is done by hand in hand hot water. Just like may parents did
and their parents before them. We have survived, presumably much to the
surprise of the "How clean is your house?" lot.

But then don't underestimate the ignorance of the public. Saw a wonderful
bit of marketing exploiting this the other day. A little packet of wipes
impregnated with something to kill bacteria. It proudly announced that it
kills 99.5% of all bacteria within 5 seconds "even MSRA". Er pardon, MRSA
is easy to kill in the enviroment. The hard bit is killing it in a person
without killing the person...

However, washing things in hand hot water where there has been food
around is likely to impart quite a lot of bacteria

But they are bacteria that would be on your hands and utensils anyway.
Your immune system will alreday know about and be able to deal with them.
Also they aren't going to multiply very well on a "clean" and dry plate.

Naturally, although she did ask for the ball and chain to be undone
first.

But not the chastity belt?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:25:09 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:19:56 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

I thought the current thinking was that we have rather too much
hygiene in the home.

Some homes, we don't allow any products that have built in bactericides
into the house. We wipe the work surfaces down everyday but with the
washing up sponge that shock horror gets replaced when it wears out.

Washing up is done by hand in hand hot water. Just like my parents did
and their parents before them. We have survived, presumably much to the
surprise of the "How clean is your house?" lot.

Exactly. Presumably the food that we eat is free from harmful
bacteria, so the crockery and cutlery (and pots 'n' pans) should be
likewise, unless of course it's left to fester for a few days.

--
Frank Erskine

Frank Erskine typed


Exactly. Presumably the food that we eat is free from harmful
bacteria, so the crockery and cutlery (and pots 'n' pans) should be
likewise, unless of course it's left to fester for a few days.

Even if the washing up is left to fester, few bugs will survive on
clean, dry crocks.

You do eventually wash the dishes, I take it?

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:22:53 GMT, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:

Frank Erskine typed


Exactly. Presumably the food that we eat is free from harmful
bacteria, so the crockery and cutlery (and pots 'n' pans) should be
likewise, unless of course it's left to fester for a few days.

Even if the washing up is left to fester, few bugs will survive on
clean, dry crocks.

You do eventually wash the dishes, I take it?

Possibly. IICBA.

;-)

--
Frank Erskine

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:27:03 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

It was really the *pay* aspect that I was querying.

Query all you like. However, I wanted to pay them the right amount
rather then a low estimate. If that's what a customer of mine wants
to do then I'm happy to facilitate this.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2007-01-14 08:51:49 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:27:03 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

It was really the *pay* aspect that I was querying.

Query all you like. However, I wanted to pay them the right amount
rather then a low estimate. If that's what a customer of mine wants
to do then I'm happy to facilitate this.

Curious....

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...

... we don't allow any products that have built in bactericides
into the house.

Nor do we. Except that I use wooden boards which some believe have a natural
disinfectant. We have different ones for different purposes but the
vegetable one is the meat one on its other side.

We wipe the work surfaces down everyday

I do it when it needs it, it could be several times a day if I'm baking.

but with the
washing up sponge that shock horror gets replaced when it wears out.

We use one of several cotton dishcloths, they're thrown out when the holes
outstrip the fabric.

Washing up is done by hand in hand hot water.

Or even lower.

Just like may parents did
and their parents before them.

Until you get as far back as rubbing with sand :-)

We have survived, presumably much to the
surprise of the "How clean is your house?" lot.

Don't know what that last bit is about but we've survived. We never get any
(what I call minor) illnesses, we prefer the dramatic when people bring
chocolates and champagne with their sympathy. Over the last 25 years we've
had a heart attack, a brain tumour and one each of cancer. That's all. Well,
except for dental decay, poorer hearing, an ingrowing toenail and needing
specs. I don't think any of those would have been caused by poor hygiene.

But then don't underestimate the ignorance of the public. Saw a wonderful
bit of marketing exploiting this the other day. A little packet of wipes
impregnated with something to kill bacteria. It proudly announced that it
kills 99.5% of all bacteria within 5 seconds "even MSRA". Er pardon, MRSA
is easy to kill in the enviroment. The hard bit is killing it in a person
without killing the person...

Indeed.

However, washing things in hand hot water where there has been food
around is likely to impart quite a lot of bacteria

But they are bacteria that would be on your hands and utensils anyway.

And you'll have ingested the food which was on the plates, cutlery or other
items.

Your immune system will alreday know about and be able to deal with them.
Also they aren't going to multiply very well on a "clean" and dry plate.

I don't know of any bacteria which can feed on glazed or even unglazed
pottery. Before anyone says that bacteria get into the pores of unglazed
pottery I'll add that we often cook in it and eat and drink from it. Our
ancestors did too and weren't affected.

Mary

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:59:17 -0000 someone who may be "Mary Fisher"
wrote this:-

Nor do we. Except that I use wooden boards which some believe have a natural
disinfectant. We have different ones for different purposes but the
vegetable one is the meat one on its other side.

I chop vegetables and meat (cooked and uncooked) on the same boards,
with the same knives and am still alive. However, I do wash them
between such uses and wash my hands regularly while cooking.

We use one of several cotton dishcloths, they're thrown out when the holes
outstrip the fabric.

Indeed, though they do get a trip in the washing machine every once
in a while.

We have survived, presumably much to the
surprise of the "How clean is your house?" lot.

Don't know what that last bit is about

I am told it is a television programme. If it is I have never been
bored enough to watch it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54