Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris

wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris


Typical incompetent confusion between planning and building control.

Jim A

wrote:
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris


Done!

Happy Christmas to all.

Steve.

wrote:

Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris

I cant see it happening, governments look to increase control to push
people into unwanted spends, they dont normally move in the opposite
direction. Especially not when theres a safety excuse or real reason,
both of which there would be in this case.

Need a more well thought through petition.


NT

Steve wrote:

wrote:
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris


Done!

Happy Christmas to all.

Steve.

Ditto

Tim

wrote:


I cant see it happening, governments look to increase control to push
people into unwanted spends, they dont normally move in the opposite
direction. Especially not when theres a safety excuse or real reason,
both of which there would be in this case.

Need a more well thought through petition.


What is happening, with the Building Regulations, is that Local/Central
Government is moving towards a system of 'self-certification'. In doing
so, it's shifting the responsibility for compliance-checking away from
'over-stretched' Council's.

Just my twopenny worth

Bypass wrote:
wrote:

I cant see it happening, governments look to increase control to push
people into unwanted spends, they dont normally move in the opposite
direction. Especially not when theres a safety excuse or real reason,
both of which there would be in this case.

Need a more well thought through petition.

What is happening, with the Building Regulations, is that Local/Central
Government is moving towards a system of 'self-certification'. In doing
so, it's shifting the responsibility for compliance-checking away from
'over-stretched' Council's.

Just my twopenny worth

Who ends up certifying, householder or a professional they engage? The
game is to get people to give as much money to the wealthier sectors of
society as poss, and since this also lines up with safety issues in
this case, both real and imagined, this approach fits normal government
practice like a glove.


NT

wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Don't be silly.
I wouldn't trust some builders to do stuff without building regulations
approval, certainly not most DIYers.
Its all very well saying that (eg.) an opening needs a lintel but who is
going to check?

dennis@home wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Don't be silly.
I wouldn't trust some builders to do stuff without building regulations
approval, certainly not most DIYers.
Its all very well saying that (eg.) an opening needs a lintel but who is
going to check?


Would you, for example, trust a builder to move a wash hand basin and
amend the waste pipe to suit? Yes, I would think so. Well, that task
requires Building Regulations approval.

I think you can find a valid point to suit both sides of any argument.

In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:

wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Don't be silly.
I wouldn't trust some builders to do stuff without building regulations
approval, certainly not most DIYers.
Its all very well saying that (eg.) an opening needs a lintel but who is
going to check?

A year or so back, I asked some colleagues what sort of questions
solicitors had asked about conformance to building regs when they
were selling their houses. For that sample size of just two, the
only building regs the solicitors were interested in checking up on
were structural alterations, and underground drainage alterations.
There were no questions about replacement windows, boilers, etc.
I don't know if this is the norm or not.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:


A year or so back, I asked some colleagues what sort of questions
solicitors had asked about conformance to building regs when they
were selling their houses. For that sample size of just two, the
only building regs the solicitors were interested in checking up on
were structural alterations, and underground drainage alterations.
There were no questions about replacement windows, boilers, etc.
I don't know if this is the norm or not.


I think you'll find that there have been some significant amendments to
the BR's within the past year. Revisions to the Approved Documents
typically come into effect on the 1 April.

"Bypass" wrote in message
om...
dennis@home wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Don't be silly.
I wouldn't trust some builders to do stuff without building regulations
approval, certainly not most DIYers.
Its all very well saying that (eg.) an opening needs a lintel but who is
going to check?


Would you, for example, trust a builder to move a wash hand basin and
amend the waste pipe to suit? Yes, I would think so. Well, that task
requires Building Regulations approval.

Not acording to the head of building control who happens to be my neigbour
it doesn't.
It may have to meet water byelaws but its not inspected unless you dig
underground drains.

Mind you he also told me not to bother with part UP either as it was just
too much work for them to cope with. ;-)

wrote:
wrote:

Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris

I cant see it happening, governments look to increase control to push
people into unwanted spends, they dont normally move in the opposite
direction. Especially not when theres a safety excuse or real reason,
both of which there would be in this case.

Need a more well thought through petition.

Some sympathy with both points, but anything which resists the encroaching
red-tape is worth a try.

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 12:47:51 +0000, a particular chimpanzee named
Bypass randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

What is happening, with the Building Regulations, is that Local/Central
Government is moving towards a system of 'self-certification'. In doing
so, it's shifting the responsibility for compliance-checking away from
'over-stretched' Council's.

If only...

What happens is that Councils spend time chasing certificates rather
than looking after real work.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

In article om,
writes
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/



Nice idea, but don't expect anything to come of it.

The situation behind another petition on there (save our waterways) was
the subject of a Prime Minister's Question recently, and despite it
being in the top ten petitions Bliar was unaware of the circumstances,
so his office obviously pay great attention to what is being placed
there.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

Bypass wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:


A year or so back, I asked some colleagues what sort of questions
solicitors had asked about conformance to building regs when they
were selling their houses. For that sample size of just two, the
only building regs the solicitors were interested in checking up on
were structural alterations, and underground drainage alterations.
There were no questions about replacement windows, boilers, etc.
I don't know if this is the norm or not.


I think you'll find that there have been some significant amendments to
the BR's within the past year. Revisions to the Approved Documents
typically come into effect on the 1 April.

Ah! April Fools day.

You don't score any points to see that the fools are us :-(

Dave

Adrian Simpson wrote:
In article om,
writes

Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Nice idea, but don't expect anything to come of it.

The situation behind another petition on there (save our waterways) was
the subject of a Prime Minister's Question recently, and despite it
being in the top ten petitions Bliar was unaware of the circumstances,
so his office obviously pay great attention to what is being placed
there.


Adrian

A good start is to educate the public so the wrong is no longer
publicly justifiable, then they have to let it go to maintain votes.
However with this particular petition they don t seem to have figured
out the solution yet. That one doesnt have a prayer.


NT

submitted this idea :
Need a more well thought through petition.

Agreed and a facility to insert individual comments to the signature.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:

wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Don't be silly.
I wouldn't trust some builders to do stuff without building regulations
approval, certainly not most DIYers.
Its all very well saying that (eg.) an opening needs a lintel but who is
going to check?

A year or so back, I asked some colleagues what sort of questions
solicitors had asked about conformance to building regs when they
were selling their houses. For that sample size of just two, the
only building regs the solicitors were interested in checking up on
were structural alterations, and underground drainage alterations.
There were no questions about replacement windows, boilers, etc.
I don't know if this is the norm or not.

The buyers of both the houses that I have sold since the window
rules changed have asked me to supply the relevent details (with
certificates if necessary) about my double glazing (the second
also asked me if I had ever claimed on the warranty).

The one which I sold after the electricity rules changed did not ask
about this.

tim

wrote in message
ps.com...
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris
I am sure most DIY'ers are ignoring Part P anyway. Spoke with an electrician
who did a relevant Part P course before Part P came in so that he could 1)
carry on his normal line of work and 2) peform all the necessary tests for
DIY'ers.

In the two years since Part P came in, he has had one phone call about
testing someones installation, and after he gave a quote (£125 I think)
heard no more. So basically zilch on the testing front. As for Prat P
compliance testing of DIY installations being a great money earner as
promised the the trade mags in 2004 he had a few words to say about
that......

Mind you my council want £325 for Part P testing.....

In free.uk.diy.home Ian_m wrote:

Mind you my council want £325 for Part P testing.....

I don't think that's allowed. The 'Part P testing' has to be part of
the standard building regs charges, they can't add anything extra. A
number of uk.d-i-y posters have pointed this out to councils who have
tried to charge them and the councils have backed down.

--
Chris Green

On Dec 23 2006, 10:23 am, wrote:
Spotted this - obviously of interest to DIY'ers. (and anyone who just
hates the nanny state in general).

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/deregulateDIY/

Chris

That's stupid. There are a lot of things that can be done as DIY
without planning permission that could be potentially dangerous if they
did not adhere to the building regs.

MBQ

wrote:

I don't think that's allowed. The 'Part P testing' has to be part of
the standard building regs charges, they can't add anything extra. A
number of uk.d-i-y posters have pointed this out to councils who have
tried to charge them and the councils have backed down.


Are you sure you have this right?

You won't get any electrician to carry out your testing, for Part P
certification, without making a charge.

I think you mean that the Building Regulations inspection fee, should be
based on the total cost of construction, less the cost of the
self-certification works, such as Part P electrical?

In article ,
Bypass writes:
wrote:

I don't think that's allowed. The 'Part P testing' has to be part of
the standard building regs charges, they can't add anything extra. A
number of uk.d-i-y posters have pointed this out to councils who have
tried to charge them and the councils have backed down.

Are you sure you have this right?

Yes -- it now says so in the reissued Part P itself, because many
councils were breaking the rules.

You won't get any electrician to carry out your testing, for Part P
certification, without making a charge.

Any electrician isn't allowed to do the testing. It has to be done
by the council. They can subcontract it, but that's up to them to
pay for out of the building control fee -- that's what the fee is
for. The expectation is that the building control officers would
do the inspecting themselves. Councils are forbidden from charging
for the inspection, or requiring you to get it done at your expense,
both of which were being tried on by many councils.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In free.uk.diy.home Bypass wrote:
wrote:

I don't think that's allowed. The 'Part P testing' has to be part of
the standard building regs charges, they can't add anything extra. A
number of uk.d-i-y posters have pointed this out to councils who have
tried to charge them and the councils have backed down.


Are you sure you have this right?

You won't get any electrician to carry out your testing, for Part P
certification, without making a charge.

It's not the DIYer's responsibility to get the Part P testing done.
The DIYer simply goes to the council and says "I've done some work
that needs checking under part P building regulations", the council
then checks it and, as I understand it, there are standard costs for
the check.


I think you mean that the Building Regulations inspection fee, should be
based on the total cost of construction, less the cost of the
self-certification works, such as Part P electrical?

If it's "self-certified" by an electrician then s/he must have done
the work, the cost (if any) will have been included in the cost of the
work. You can't get an 'outside' electrician to certify some work
that they haven't done and then show the certificate to the council.
If you have uncertified work done then the only way to get it past
building regs is to get the council building regs people to check it.
If they use an outside electrician then that's entirely up to them but
has no effect on what they can charge you.

--
Chris Green

wrote in message
...
In free.uk.diy.home Bypass wrote:
wrote:

snip

If it's "self-certified" by an electrician then s/he must have done
the work, the cost (if any) will have been included in the cost of the
work. You can't get an 'outside' electrician to certify some work
that they haven't done and then show the certificate to the council.
If you have uncertified work done then the only way to get it past
building regs is to get the council building regs people to check it.
If they use an outside electrician then that's entirely up to them but
has no effect on what they can charge you.

Anyway its a mess. I have the following state in my kitchen:

- The installer(s) did perform electrical tests of the work done (I have a
test sheet), but issued no Part P paperwork to me or council as his
understanding (which I now know is incorrect) is that he can self certify
and needs to issue no paperwork. The kitchen supplier says its up to their
contractors to issue correct paperwork and inform council, sub-contractors
say they inform the kitchen supplier who then should inform the council of
work undertaken.

- The under unit fanned radiator (cost £100) I fitted and electrically
tested is requiring a £325 charge from council to get tested and certified.