pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...
pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


Dont worry, my guess is Blackpool is safe from increases, the home counties
will pick is the tab as usual.

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...
pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

If you've got it - they'll tax it. Won't be happy until we are all drawing
state benefits.

On 2006-10-29 18:45:50 +0000, "The3rd Earl Of Derby" said:

pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

Hopefully, because they are incredibly tacky.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-29 18:45:50 +0000, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
said:
pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get
taxed?

Hopefully, because they are incredibly tacky.

That'll be the chewing gum.

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get
taxed?

Everything that uses electricity will soon be taxed to the hilt and the more
power they use, the higher the tax...hairdryers, irons, kettles, heaters etc
will soon have a hefty tax, along with ovens, toasters and christ knows
what...we're being steered towards using gas, presumably because it's almost
free, although not to us.

Stock up on candles and start growing some trees

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

|pmsl.
|
|New gov policies...
|The green tax code

I expect that all they will do is to tax incandescent bulbs off the market.
As I saw low energy bulbs this week at 99 p each, this will be easy. I may
replace the incandescents in the garage having next to no security with low
energy ones when they fail. Mind you they are used so little that they
are all of 10 years old

|Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

Hopefully, Shopping centres should have only enough light to "see" clearly,
nothing more.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Phil L wrote:

Everything that uses electricity will soon be taxed to the hilt and the more
power they use, the higher the tax...hairdryers, irons, kettles, heaters etc
will soon have a hefty tax, along with ovens, toasters and christ knows
what...we're being steered towards using gas, presumably because it's almost
free, although not to us.

Great - for those who have mains gas. The nearest gas main to me, is
perhaps 100 miles away.

Stock up on candles and start growing some trees

I've already done that!

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...

I expect that all they will do is to tax incandescent bulbs off the
market.
As I saw low energy bulbs this week at 99 p each, this will be easy.

They have been47p in ASDA for months.

On 2006-10-29 20:09:49 +0000, S Viemeister said:

Phil L wrote:

Everything that uses electricity will soon be taxed to the hilt and the
more power they use, the higher the tax...hairdryers, irons, kettles,
heaters etc will soon have a hefty tax, along with ovens, toasters and
christ knows what...we're being steered towards using gas, presumably
because it's almost free, although not to us.

Great - for those who have mains gas. The nearest gas main to me, is
perhaps 100 miles away.

That was thoughtless of Hydro. They could have put in a branch on the
Langeled pipeline to help you out a bit. I guess that you're closer
to Norway than London anyway....

In message , The3rd
Earl Of Derby writes
pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

Rather, does it mean that an invasion force could be built to invade
Ameristan and overthrow G Bush ?

--
geoff

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

|pmsl.
|
|New gov policies...
|The green tax code

I expect that all they will do is to tax incandescent bulbs off the
market.
As I saw low energy bulbs this week at 99 p each, this will be easy.

Even though I consider myself to be fairly eco-friendly, I absolutely hate
these useless CFLs. The specs say that they are equivalent to 100W
incandescents but I think they are dismal and completely inadequate.

Ev.

Ev wrote:
"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

I expect that all they will do is to tax incandescent bulbs off the
market.
As I saw low energy bulbs this week at 99 p each, this will be easy.

Even though I consider myself to be fairly eco-friendly, I absolutely
hate these useless CFLs. The specs say that they are equivalent to
100W incandescents but I think they are dismal and completely
inadequate.

Thy are if you don't give them five minutes to warm up, for those five
minutes it's like being in a cave.

The message k
from "Phil L" contains these words:

Thy are if you don't give them five minutes to warm up, for those five
minutes it's like being in a cave.

That's very dependent on the make and model. We've some that start in
ten seconds or so, others that take more.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:
The message k
from "Phil L" contains these words:

Thy are if you don't give them five minutes to warm up, for those
five minutes it's like being in a cave.

That's very dependent on the make and model. We've some that start in
ten seconds or so, others that take more.

I find the slow warm up is a benefit first thing in the morning in winter.

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Everything that uses electricity will soon be taxed to the hilt and the
more power they use, the higher the tax...hairdryers, irons, kettles,
heaters etc will soon have a hefty tax, along with ovens, toasters and
christ knows what...we're being steered towards using gas, presumably
because it's almost free, although not to us.

More and more of our gas is imported and paid for. Much of that goes
towards electricity generation.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Even though I consider myself to be fairly eco-friendly, I absolutely
hate these useless CFLs. The specs say that they are equivalent to
100W incandescents but I think they are dismal and completely
inadequate.

Thy are if you don't give them five minutes to warm up, for those five
minutes it's like being in a cave.

Even when fully warmed up their output just isn't the equivalent as
stated. I replaced a 100 watt large globe bulb with one claimed to be 100w
and it wasn't. And I doubt the globe one was the most efficient type of
incandescent bulb either. They probably use the same criterion as boiler
makers do for efficiency. ;-)

--
*No sentence fragments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Phil L" wrote in message
.uk...
Ev wrote:
"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

I expect that all they will do is to tax incandescent bulbs off the
market.
As I saw low energy bulbs this week at 99 p each, this will be easy.

Even though I consider myself to be fairly eco-friendly, I absolutely
hate these useless CFLs. The specs say that they are equivalent to
100W incandescents but I think they are dismal and completely
inadequate.

Thy are if you don't give them five minutes to warm up, for those five
minutes it's like being in a cave.


Not just that, if you're walking out of the living room into the hall and up
the stairs etc, the CF lamps are just too slow for the purpose. Same with
the loo, you often need good light in the loo yet only need it for a short
while and having to hang about while the lamp warms up can be a drag. The
same can be said of kitchens etc.

I also have a 25W pygmy lamp in my understairs cupboard, I appreciate the
fact it comes on instantaneously to full brightness as I usually can get
what I was looking for ( beer ) in only two or three seconds.

Question: how come the strip fluorescents in my kitchen come on with only a
2 second-odd delay to a decent initial brightness, whereas compacts are so
much slower?

Anyway, looks like a trip to the shops for a gross of assorted filament
lamps before they make 'em illegal.

Andy.

The message
from "Bioboffin" contains these words:

That's very dependent on the make and model. We've some that start in
ten seconds or so, others that take more.

I find the slow warm up is a benefit first thing in the morning in winter.

We have Ikea R50 spots in our bedside reading lamps. Very gentle on the
brain, they are, taking about 30 seconds to get even half-way.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message
from "Andy" contains these words:

Same with the loo, you often need good light in the loo

Me, I can find the bum-cartridge without the lights on.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

raden wrote:

In message , The3rd
Earl Of Derby writes

pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get
taxed?

Rather, does it mean that an invasion force could be built to invade
Ameristan and overthrow G Bush ?

Coronation Street, or one of the aussi imports ;-)

Mind you. East Enders would kill off any intelligent being.

Oh! Sorry, I wasn't thinking. Bush is not intelligent :-(


On the other hand, I see from the news, that he has dropped so low in
popularity polls, that he is set to take a hiding from the mid term
elections.

Pity we don't have them; to get rid of our guvmint.

Dave

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
Even when fully warmed up their output just isn't the equivalent as
stated. I replaced a 100 watt large globe bulb with one claimed to be 100w
and it wasn't. And I doubt the globe one was the most efficient type of
incandescent bulb either. They probably use the same criterion as boiler
makers do for efficiency. ;-)

I've said this several times before, but the reason for this is
they are compared with softone filament lamps, which are painted
and lower efficiency, and are not what most people use.
Ignore the quoted equivalent on the box, and just assume a 4:1
ratio. For any kind of integral reflector bulb, it's probably
worse, i.e. somewhere nearer 3:1.

Also, you may want to replace old ones before they completely die.
I have a number which still work at 5 years old, but the phosphor
is noticably wearing out making them dimmer than new ones.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

|Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

Hopefully, Shopping centres should have only enough light to "see" clearly,
nothing more.

The tax will of course achieve the exact opposite, as govt
interference often does. If lighting becomes expensive, shops will keep
all the ads on because they generate enough revenue to justify the
spend, whereas any lights in otherwise dark areas will be switched off.
It'll be 25w in the loos, and darkness in the alleyways and carparks.


NT

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2006-10-29 20:09:49 +0000, S Viemeister
said:
Great - for those who have mains gas. The nearest gas main to me, is
perhaps 100 miles away.


That was thoughtless of Hydro.

Indeed.

I guess that you're closer to
Norway than London anyway....

Driving conditions to London are better than to Norway, though.......

Sheila

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Even when fully warmed up their output just isn't the equivalent as
stated. I replaced a 100 watt large globe bulb with one claimed to be 100w
and it wasn't.

I've said this several times before, but the reason for this is
they are compared with softone filament lamps, which are painted
and lower efficiency, and are not what most people use.
Ignore the quoted equivalent on the box, and just assume a 4:1
ratio. For any kind of integral reflector bulb, it's probably
worse, i.e. somewhere nearer 3:1.

I tihnk people would rather just whine.


NT

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

Does this mean town shopping centers lit up like blackpool will get taxed?

Good heavens no! It'll only be the powerless proles like us who will
get taxed. The large corps. and vested interests (think: party funding)
won't have to pay a penny, in case it hurts their "competitiveness".

Don't forget, this is only meant to be a token gesture to look as
if something's being done. Even reducing our CO2 levels to those of
North Korea won't make a blind bit of difference on a global scale.

Pete

--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

"Andy" wrote in message
...

"Phil L" wrote in message
.uk...
Ev wrote:
"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:45:50 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

pmsl.

New gov policies...
The green tax code

I expect that all they will do is to tax incandescent bulbs off the
market.
As I saw low energy bulbs this week at 99 p each, this will be easy.

Even though I consider myself to be fairly eco-friendly, I absolutely
hate these useless CFLs. The specs say that they are equivalent to
100W incandescents but I think they are dismal and completely
inadequate.

Thy are if you don't give them five minutes to warm up, for those five
minutes it's like being in a cave.


Not just that, if you're walking out of the living room into the hall and
up the stairs etc, the CF lamps are just too slow for the purpose. Same
with the loo, you often need good light in the loo yet only need it for a
short while and having to hang about while the lamp warms up can be a
drag. The same can be said of kitchens etc.

I also have a 25W pygmy lamp in my understairs cupboard, I appreciate the
fact it comes on instantaneously to full brightness as I usually can get
what I was looking for ( beer ) in only two or three seconds.

Question: how come the strip fluorescents in my kitchen come on with only
a 2 second-odd delay to a decent initial brightness, whereas compacts are
so much slower?

I was once told that fluorescent tubes use the same amount of power during
start-up as they do in 45mins normal running time. In other words, in power
terms it's not worth switching on or off a fluorescent tube unless it will
be on/off for at least 45 minutes. Does this apply to CFL's too? How much
power do they consume before they're up to full output?

Peter


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Peter Taylor wrote:

I was once told that fluorescent tubes use the same amount of power during
start-up as they do in 45mins normal running time. In other words, in power
terms it's not worth switching on or off a fluorescent tube unless it will
be on/off for at least 45 minutes.

For a 3 second startup time and a 60w tube, ignoring ballast losses, to
meet that claim the starting power would need to be 45 x 60 / 3 x 60w =
54kW (around 200A per tube). Coincidentally, more power than rotates a
turning bridge.


NT

In article .com,
wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Even when fully warmed up their output just isn't the equivalent as
stated. I replaced a 100 watt large globe bulb with one claimed to
be 100w and it wasn't.

I've said this several times before, but the reason for this is
they are compared with softone filament lamps, which are painted
and lower efficiency, and are not what most people use.
Ignore the quoted equivalent on the box, and just assume a 4:1
ratio. For any kind of integral reflector bulb, it's probably
worse, i.e. somewhere nearer 3:1.

I tihnk people would rather just whine.

Given the savings they are claimed to produce is based on a lie, why not?

--
*Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:20:21 -0000 someone who may be "Andy"
wrote this:-

Not just that, if you're walking out of the living room into the hall and up
the stairs etc, the CF lamps are just too slow for the purpose. Same with
the loo, you often need good light in the loo yet only need it for a short
while and having to hang about while the lamp warms up can be a drag.

No need to hang around waiting for lamps to warm up in several small
toilets that I frequent.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:30:03 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

I tihnk people would rather just whine.

Given the savings they are claimed to produce is based on a lie, why not?

It is interesting that much the same group of people moan about new
innovations and instead want to take us back to the 1960s (nuclear
power stations, incandescent lamps, etc). All these new innovations
are supposedly fraudulent, according to the moaners.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
.. .

I was once told that fluorescent tubes use the same amount of power during
start-up as they do in 45mins normal running time. In other words, in
power terms it's not worth switching on or off a fluorescent tube unless
it will be on/off for at least 45 minutes. Does this apply to CFL's too?
How much power do they consume before they're up to full output?

That would be by the same people that say you use more energy to heat a
house up in the morning than you do if you leave the heating on all night?

I suggest you learn some basic physics so you can ignore them.

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
Given the savings they are claimed to produce is based on a lie, why
not?

It is interesting that much the same group of people moan about new
innovations and instead want to take us back to the 1960s (nuclear
power stations, incandescent lamps, etc). All these new innovations
are supposedly fraudulent, according to the moaners.

I was moaning about effectively fraudulent claims which do no good to the
'cause' in the long run. All they do is give fuel to the above.

--
*You sound reasonable......time to up my medication

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2006-10-30 03:02:27 +0000, S Viemeister said:

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2006-10-29 20:09:49 +0000, S Viemeister said:
Great - for those who have mains gas. The nearest gas main to me, is
perhaps 100 miles away.


That was thoughtless of Hydro.

Indeed.

I guess that you're closer to Norway than London anyway....

Driving conditions to London are better than to Norway, though.......


Well there is that, but the scenery's a lot better when you get there -
people are more agreeable as well :-)

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:08:25 UTC, David Hansen
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:30:03 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

I tihnk people would rather just whine.

Given the savings they are claimed to produce is based on a lie, why not?

It is interesting that much the same group of people moan about new
innovations and instead want to take us back to the 1960s (nuclear
power stations, incandescent lamps, etc). All these new innovations
are supposedly fraudulent, according to the moaners.

What's an old innovation? :-)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...


I suggest you learn some basic physics so you can ignore them.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I was told that by an electrician back
in the 70's and never felt the need to question it. You could try
enlightening me yourself though, instead of being patronising - how DO you
work out how much energy a fluorescent fitting uses during start up? It
seems to me quite possible, based upon my obviously extremely limited
knowledge in these things, that an incandescent lamp turned on for a brief
look in a cupboard could conceivably use less energy than a fl lamp.

Peter



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 2006-10-30 11:49:08 +0000, S Viemeister said:

Andy Hall wrote:

On 2006-10-30 03:02:27 +0000, S Viemeister said:
Driving conditions to London are better than to Norway, though.......

Well there is that, but the scenery's a lot better when you get there -
people are more agreeable as well :-)

The scenery visible through my living room window is incomparable!

I can imagine......


But someday, I'd like to visit Norway.

Recommended but expensive, sadly....



When I'm in London, I'm visiting family, and they're all very agreeable.

Sheila

Guy King typed


The message
from "Andy" contains these words:

Same with the loo, you often need good light in the loo

Me, I can find the bum-cartridge without the lights on.

Me, sometimes I need no light in the loo but sometimes I need good light
in the same bathroom.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
.. .
"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...


I suggest you learn some basic physics so you can ignore them.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I was told that by an electrician
back in the 70's and never felt the need to question it. You could try
enlightening me yourself though, instead of being patronising - how DO you
work out how much energy a fluorescent fitting uses during start up? It
seems to me quite possible, based upon my obviously extremely limited
knowledge in these things, that an incandescent lamp turned on for a brief
look in a cupboard could conceivably use less energy than a fl lamp.

Is 45 minutes a brief look?

Yes it is better to use incandesent lamps if you only use them for a minute
or two.
Not because they save power but because you don't have to wait for them to
warm up.

You shouldn't really believe everything electricians tell you.
Generaly they are no cleverer than anyone else, they just know how to wire
some electrical circuits.
They seldom know how the things actually work.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
.. .
"dennis@home" wrote in message
.uk...


I suggest you learn some basic physics so you can ignore them.

You could try enlightening me yourself though, instead of being
patronising - how DO you work out how much energy a fluorescent
fitting uses during start up?

So what's the answer then Dennis?


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com