Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall out
and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad weather has
started and I know the crack will get worse by the time winter has
ended. What I have done and probably will have to re-do-it is I have
got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and went up some ladders and
sealed the crack under bags so keep the water and frost out hopefully,
I just want to know am I doing the right thing or will I make it worse
please help
Thank You

Gloxx1961 wrote:
[snip]
..... I have informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final
reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was
....[snip]

How the hell do they know that? Can they prove it?

If you have a crack that's growing you should get a structural engineer
to give you an opinion as to the cause.

Mike

Gloxx1961 wrote:
Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall out
and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad weather has
started and I know the crack will get worse by the time winter has
ended. What I have done and probably will have to re-do-it is I have
got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and went up some ladders and
sealed the crack under bags so keep the water and frost out hopefully,
I just want to know am I doing the right thing or will I make it worse
please help
Thank You

Many walls crack for many different reasons. I would use a silicone
dispenser and fill it with silicone or tar to keep the rain out and
just hope it doesnt get worse. It may not get worse.
It would be interesting to see a picture of the full wall and the full
house to evaluate the structure. Do you have a fireplace behind the
crack by any chance? One big fire could cause it or a chimney fire.
If your walls are all plumb all round you shouldnt worry too much.

You need to get an experienced person to determine the most likely
cause of the crack. From that you will know whether it is an insurance
issue, or due to some other parties actions - or if it's down to you.

Are we talking about a crack you can fit your hand in? Or just a coin
on edge? Is your house a new build? Is it on flat ground? Are there
neighbouring properties having similar problems? Are there trees too
close to your house? Could there be a leaking drain underground?

There's a lot of possible causes, many of which aren't likely to be
covered by insurance.

Gloxx1961 wrote:
Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002
and that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall
out and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad
weather has started and I know the crack will get worse by the time
winter has ended. What I have done and probably will have to
re-do-it is I have got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and
went up some ladders and sealed the crack under bags so keep the
water and frost out hopefully, I just want to know am I doing the
right thing or will I make it worse please help
Thank You

This should also be apparent inside also, is there one inside? if so you
need a surveyor.

Cracks will run further and further untill it cant go anywhere else ie a
crack in a pane of glass will continue to course through the pane till it
reaches the other side of the frame,the only way to stop that crack is to
drill a hole in the pane of glass at the immediate end of the crack.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"Gloxx1961" wrote:


Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall out
and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad weather has
started and I know the crack will get worse by the time winter has
ended. What I have done and probably will have to re-do-it is I have
got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and went up some ladders and
sealed the crack under bags so keep the water and frost out hopefully,
I just want to know am I doing the right thing or will I make it worse
please help
Thank You

Duck tape and bin bags will not make anything worse. Regarding taking this
up with the insurer that you were with in 2001/2002, that sounds like
rubbish to me. The crack appeared this year. Ask your insurance company to
indicate where in your policy it says that you are not covered for a crack
appearing in a wall during your current policy. How can you submit a claim
to a previous insurer on a policy that is no longer in force? You need to
put in a complaint to your insurance company and if you don't get anywhere
go to http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/ Also, uk.legal is a worth a
try.

You need professional advice for what sounds like heave or subsidence. Your
insurance company should arrange this, otherwise you will have to pay a
surveyor or structural engineer yourself:
http://www.localsurveyorsdirect.co.uk/

MikeH wrote:
Gloxx1961 wrote:
[snip]
.... I have informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final
reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was
...[snip]

How the hell do they know that? Can they prove it?

If you have a crack that's growing you should get a structural engineer
to give you an opinion as to the cause.

Mike

Thanks for your comments that is the problem I am going to have!!
Insurance company sent out loss adjuster who then inturn sent out a
structural engineer but he doesn't really know why it happened and has
only mention it May have been caused by this earthquake. He completely
ruled out subsidance which I was really worried about.

wrote:
Gloxx1961 wrote:
Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall out
and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad weather has
started and I know the crack will get worse by the time winter has
ended. What I have done and probably will have to re-do-it is I have
got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and went up some ladders and
sealed the crack under bags so keep the water and frost out hopefully,
I just want to know am I doing the right thing or will I make it worse
please help
Thank You

Many walls crack for many different reasons. I would use a silicone
dispenser and fill it with silicone or tar to keep the rain out and
just hope it doesnt get worse. It may not get worse.
It would be interesting to see a picture of the full wall and the full
house to evaluate the structure. Do you have a fireplace behind the
crack by any chance? One big fire could cause it or a chimney fire.
If your walls are all plumb all round you shouldnt worry too much.

Thank you for your comments. I do not have chimney brest or fire on
this wall infact there is nothing inside that could have caused this.

wrote:
You need to get an experienced person to determine the most likely
cause of the crack. From that you will know whether it is an insurance
issue, or due to some other parties actions - or if it's down to you.

Are we talking about a crack you can fit your hand in? Or just a coin
on edge? Is your house a new build? Is it on flat ground? Are there
neighbouring properties having similar problems? Are there trees too
close to your house? Could there be a leaking drain underground?

There's a lot of possible causes, many of which aren't likely to be
covered by insurance.

Thank you for your comments

well insurance company did send out Loss Adjusters and they inturn
sent out structural engineer who actually said it May have been caused
by this earthquake he's not sure why I should have a vertical crack in
wall, house built in the late 40's earlly 50s
no trees not asked neighbours but we are on clay soil. the crack in
some part where the mortar has fallen out you can get two fingers in
the crack. I mean I know what needs to be done but I have to wait for
insurances to see who might pay for it.

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
Gloxx1961 wrote:
Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002
and that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall
out and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad
weather has started and I know the crack will get worse by the time
winter has ended. What I have done and probably will have to
re-do-it is I have got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and
went up some ladders and sealed the crack under bags so keep the
water and frost out hopefully, I just want to know am I doing the
right thing or will I make it worse please help
Thank You

This should also be apparent inside also, is there one inside? if so you
need a surveyor.

Cracks will run further and further untill it cant go anywhere else ie a
crack in a pane of glass will continue to course through the pane till it
reaches the other side of the frame,the only way to stop that crack is to
drill a hole in the pane of glass at the immediate end of the crack.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite


Thank you for your comments

I do not have any cracks inside where the crack is on the outside.
I know what needs to be done but just having to wait to see if insurers
will pay out my insurer seems to have passed it on to the previous
insurer I have been intouch with them but they just might say its over
five years your not insured with us tough!!!

Phil Anthropist wrote:
"Gloxx1961" wrote:


Hi hope someone can tell me if I am doing the right thing. Last
year my brother noticed a crack on my side wall it was only 3ft in
length it just looked like the mortar was crumbling he told me to keep
an eye on it. I looked at it again earlier this year (Feb) and I was
shocked to find the crack its now over 10ft high and has gone through
two small half bricks into the upstairs part of the wall, the initial
crack hasn't gone through the damp proof course just gone upwards
mostly following the mortar except fot the two half bricks. I have
informed insurance company in Febuary but only got a final reply that
this crack was due to earthquake movement that happend in 2001/2002 and
that I wasn't insured with them at the time and to take it up with
insuer that I was. In the mean time the mortar has started to fall out
and I am worried that I will be piggy in the middle the bad weather has
started and I know the crack will get worse by the time winter has
ended. What I have done and probably will have to re-do-it is I have
got Duck tape waterproof and some bin bags and went up some ladders and
sealed the crack under bags so keep the water and frost out hopefully,
I just want to know am I doing the right thing or will I make it worse
please help
Thank You

Duck tape and bin bags will not make anything worse. Regarding taking this
up with the insurer that you were with in 2001/2002, that sounds like
rubbish to me. The crack appeared this year. Ask your insurance company to
indicate where in your policy it says that you are not covered for a crack
appearing in a wall during your current policy. How can you submit a claim
to a previous insurer on a policy that is no longer in force? You need to
put in a complaint to your insurance company and if you don't get anywhere
go to http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/ Also, uk.legal is a worth a
try.

You need professional advice for what sounds like heave or subsidence. Your
insurance company should arrange this, otherwise you will have to pay a
surveyor or structural engineer yourself:
http://www.localsurveyorsdirect.co.uk/

Thank you for your comments

I am glad you mentioned about the bin bags and duck tape and
yes like you I am thinking on those same lines, why do we pay insurance
otherwise!!! and thanks for the legal stuff. The structual engineer
who came out through the Loss Adjusters has ruled out subsidence which
is what I was worried about.

It sounds unusual for a house of that age to suddenly develop cracks.
New enough to have substantial foundations, old enough to have done any
settling.

Most importantly, has the movment stopped? Are you/the engineer
accurately monitoring the width of the crack from month to month? Did
the engineer suggest the likelihood of further movement?

You may need to pay for the services of a local engineer with
particular expertise in this sort of thing, rather than the insurance
company's.

Gloxx1961 wrote:


Thanks for your comments that is the problem I am going to have!!
Insurance company sent out loss adjuster who then inturn sent out a
structural engineer but he doesn't really know why it happened and has
only mention it May have been caused by this earthquake. He
completely ruled out subsidance which I was really worried about.

:-) Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate.

You mean minor earth tremors.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"Gloxx1961" wrote:
Thank you for your comments

I am glad you mentioned about the bin bags and duck tape and
yes like you I am thinking on those same lines, why do we pay insurance
otherwise!!! and thanks for the legal stuff. The structual engineer
who came out through the Loss Adjusters has ruled out subsidence which
is what I was worried about.

I would be suspicious about a report from an insurance-paid structural
engineer as they are not independent. As for loss adjustors, their job is to
minimise pay-outs and to always decide in favour of the company and not the
customer. If they can they will take you to the cleaners.

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote:
:-) Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate.

You mean minor earth tremors.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Really?
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2275158.stm (4.8 on the Richter scale).

Phil Anthropist wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote:
:-) Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate.

You mean minor earth tremors.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Really?
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2275158.stm (4.8 on the Richter
scale).

That was not an earthquake,an earthquake is a full blown destructive
occurence whereby it Bings down buildings,cause the earth to open up,tidal
floods.

Like I said earth tremor,nothing more.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote:
That was not an earthquake,an earthquake is a full blown destructive
occurence whereby it Bings down buildings,cause the earth to open up,tidal
floods.

Like I said earth tremor,nothing more.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Complete rubbish.

Phil Anthropist wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote:
That was not an earthquake,an earthquake is a full blown destructive
occurence whereby it Bings down buildings,cause the earth to open
up,tidal floods.

Like I said earth tremor,nothing more.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Complete rubbish.

Its not rubbish,small or huge felt tremors usally precede an earth quake ie
a warning sign if you like.
We didn't have an earthquake so therefor it was a tremor.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Thanks for your comments that is the problem I am going to have!!
Insurance company sent out loss adjuster who then inturn sent out a
structural engineer but he doesn't really know why it happened and has
only mention it May have been caused by this earthquake. He completely
ruled out subsidance which I was really worried about.

I think you need an independant LOSS ASSESOR as well. Adjusters work for
the insurance company to keep their payouts to a minimum. Loss Assesors
work for you, for a fee I think, and try to get you as much as possible.
Ask Citizens advice if they keep a list.

HTH

Dave

Gloxx1961 wrote:

I do not have any cracks inside where the crack is on the outside.
I know what needs to be done but just having to wait to see if insurers
will pay out my insurer seems to have passed it on to the previous
insurer I have been intouch with them but they just might say its over
five years your not insured with us tough!!!

I cant see what the insurance company can do about a crack in a wall
anyway. If the crack widens to the extent that the house needs a new
wall that is a different matter and there would be serious costs in
that. But a crack in a wall is very common and not to be alarmed about
unless it is progressive and threatening to fall apart.
Again as I said you should look at the alignment of the walls and see
if there is any movement there or any other crack in the joining walls
that you didnt notice before.
It may just be bad building work in that wall that caused the crack. It
doesnt appear on the inside wall so thats good news.
That crack may have been in the wall for many years but the outside
mortar may have recently come away to reveal it.
No need to pay an engineer to tell you something so obvious when you
have all the free advice you need here.
get us a few pics of it and we can advise for free. for now you should
fill it anyway as I already advised and monitor it for any development.

Remember that there are cracks in most houses and sometimes even new
houses.

wrote:
Gloxx1961 wrote:

I do not have any cracks inside where the crack is on the outside.
I know what needs to be done but just having to wait to see if insurers
will pay out my insurer seems to have passed it on to the previous
insurer I have been intouch with them but they just might say its over
five years your not insured with us tough!!!

I cant see what the insurance company can do about a crack in a wall
anyway. If the crack widens to the extent that the house needs a new
wall that is a different matter and there would be serious costs in
that. But a crack in a wall is very common and not to be alarmed about
unless it is progressive and threatening to fall apart.
Again as I said you should look at the alignment of the walls and see
if there is any movement there or any other crack in the joining walls
that you didnt notice before.
It may just be bad building work in that wall that caused the crack. It
doesnt appear on the inside wall so thats good news.
That crack may have been in the wall for many years but the outside
mortar may have recently come away to reveal it.
No need to pay an engineer to tell you something so obvious when you
have all the free advice you need here.
get us a few pics of it and we can advise for free. for now you should
fill it anyway as I already advised and monitor it for any development.

Remember that there are cracks in most houses and sometimes even new
houses.

Thanks again for comments I have to admit I did panic when last year
crack was only 3ft high and then noticed it had gone upwards to over
10ft high I know the mortar is falling out and needs replacing
(pointing up) I just wished I had never involved the insurance company
now I could have found the money for that but has it get worse it and
the other insurance company will want to look at it I can not touch it,
as for photos at the moment I have put bin bags up with duck tape and
so far in the wind and rain is still up. I just wish I knew of this
site before. Thanks for the advice I do appreciate it

In message , The3rd
Earl Of Derby writes
Gloxx1961 wrote:


Thanks for your comments that is the problem I am going to have!!
Insurance company sent out loss adjuster who then inturn sent out a
structural engineer but he doesn't really know why it happened and has
only mention it May have been caused by this earthquake. He
completely ruled out subsidance which I was really worried about.

:-) Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate.

You mean minor earth tremors.

WTF does climate have to do with earthquakes ?


--
geoff

In message , The3rd
Earl Of Derby writes
Phil Anthropist wrote:
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote:
That was not an earthquake,an earthquake is a full blown destructive
occurence whereby it Bings down buildings,cause the earth to open
up,tidal floods.

Like I said earth tremor,nothing more.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Complete rubbish.

Its not rubbish,small or huge felt tremors usally precede an earth quake ie
a warning sign if you like.
We didn't have an earthquake so therefor it was a tremor.

Earthquakes occur at plate boundaries - places like Sumatra / Java, San
Andreas in California which are active ATM just happen to be where it's
warm, but Iceland has them too

--
geoff

raden wrote:

WTF does climate have to do with earthquakes ?

Everything.


To the OP:

As it happens, the insurance company need to be cajoled into doing what
they were paid to do. Letting them bog one down in prevaricative and
ignorant remarks, is only digging one's self in deeper **** with the
*******s.

They have a duty to live up to and you need to know who put out that
false remark in order to follow up their criminal neglect at their head
office. If they refuse to tell you how they jumped to that conclusion
without prior knowledge they aught to have warned you about years ago,
then they are in the **** themselves.

Not that that will help you if you are with a bogus insurance company.

Call in the local papers and Watchdog. Throw bigger **** right back at
the arseholes. Stop them farting on your castle. Rip the *******s a new
one. The engineer should never have added any suppositions in his
report. You might have a small case against him in that if things go
wrong.
http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...varicative&r=5

In the meantime the crack is going to work its way up to the eaves and
the house will then be being held up by the roof and by gravity. The
insurance people will do everything they can to get out of their
predicament and sending in a loss adjuster was just the start of it.

Think what the term loss adjuster means. They are slime eating hitmen.
Get your own experts in future. You should have insisted on an
impartial expert witness.

You might be able to live with putting lintles in every so often to
bridge the gap and rebuilding the brickwork above each stage but the
house needs underpinning by the sound of it.

In message .com,
Weatherlawyer writes

raden wrote:

WTF does climate have to do with earthquakes ?

Everything.

Please explain ...


--
geoff

In message , raden
writes
In message .com,
Weatherlawyer writes

raden wrote:

WTF does climate have to do with earthquakes ?

Everything.

Please explain ...


Funny how they seem to occur from the north pole to the south pole

http://projects.crustal.ucsb.edu/und...obe/globe.html

strange that ...


--
geoff

raden wrote:

Funny how they seem to occur from the north pole to the south pole

http://projects.crustal.ucsb.edu/und...obe/globe.html

strange that ...

And always at or near the surface too. But what has that to do with the
weather?

This present wet spell will end at about the same time that a large
magnitude earthquake strikes in one of the places you mentioned. Keep
your abuse to yourself until then.

In message om,
Weatherlawyer writes

raden wrote:

Funny how they seem to occur from the north pole to the south pole

http://projects.crustal.ucsb.edu/und...obe/globe.html

strange that ...

And always at or near the surface too. But what has that to do with the
weather?

I was replying to

"Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate. "


--
geoff

The message
from raden contains these words:

WTF does climate have to do with earthquakes ?

Everything.

Please explain ...

He's not completely barking. The hydrology of an area can have
considerable impact on earthquakes - they're more common after heavy
rain, for example.

On a larger scale, Scotland is still going up and Kent going down as a
result of the disappearance of the ice sheet ten thousand years ago. The
removal of the overburden of ice has had enormous geologial impact and
will continue to do so as the ice retreats.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message
from raden contains these words:

Funny how they seem to occur from the north pole to the south pole

Have you noticed how the continents all look like blobs of custard
splotted onto the globe and allowed to run down? It's Continental Drip.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Think what the term loss adjuster means. They are slime eating hitmen.
Get your own experts in future. You should have insisted on an
impartial expert witness.

Thats why I told the OP to try to get hold of an independant Loss Asssesor.

Dave

raden wrote:

I was replying to

"Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate. "

Colder than Alaska?

Weatherlawyer wrote:
raden wrote:
I was replying to

"Earthquake? GB doesn't get earthquakes, its too cold a climate. "

Colder than Alaska?


I was told by a loss adjuster that nowadays the insurance company
definition of "crack" is something you can get your fist into. You are
right to have reported it to them, but I would now leave the ball in
their court. Since that mid 70s drought they have been reluctant to
underpin and, in the end, it's their decision and not yours.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Stuart Noble
saying something like:

I was told by a loss adjuster that nowadays the insurance company
definition of "crack" is something you can get your fist into.

" "
--

Dave