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#1
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi All
Until last week I was using a little (probably 1/3hp) electric motor to power a combination diamond saw / grinder / polisher unit. I guess that the original motor was ex an old washing machine. Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). So - bright idea time ! Saw something on the web about using a cheapie bench grinder as a motor - found one in Homebase, and lo & behold the pulley fitted in place of the grinding wheel. Result ! Sadly not - the new little motor is perfectly happy to spin its own grinding wheels - but refuses to start when faced with the effort of spinning the combination unit - it now sits and buzzes weakly..... darn ! The new thing's rated at 150Watts - which is probably a bit on the light side - but any idea why it'll happily spin up its own wheels but not my combo unit....? Alternatively - what's the chance or fixing the old motor - no magic smoke escaped - so I'm hopeful.... g Thanks Adrian Suffolk UK ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#2
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Mains motors in the workshop
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#3
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Hi All Until last week I was using a little (probably 1/3hp) electric motor to power a combination diamond saw / grinder / polisher unit. I guess that the original motor was ex an old washing machine. Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). So - bright idea time ! Saw something on the web about using a cheapie bench grinder as a motor - found one in Homebase, and lo & behold the pulley fitted in place of the grinding wheel. Result ! Sadly not - the new little motor is perfectly happy to spin its own grinding wheels - but refuses to start when faced with the effort of spinning the combination unit - it now sits and buzzes weakly..... darn ! The new thing's rated at 150Watts - which is probably a bit on the light side - but any idea why it'll happily spin up its own wheels but not my combo unit....? Alternatively - what's the chance or fixing the old motor - no magic smoke escaped - so I'm hopeful.... g Some motors deliver little torque during starting, some produce lots. So not all motors are suited to all loads. Total rank bodge time: 1. wrap string 10 times round the driveshaft, ensuring that each layer is firmly on top of previous layers so the string grips. Pull string medium-hard at same time as throwing the switch. Very crude but effective. 2. If a washing machine motor has a shorted winding, running it in series with another load will get it going. Now and then you'll find it wont self start unless turned, if it stopped on the dead spot. Unfortunately this bodge cant be used in a washing machine, as the motor must start many times per wash cycle without manual assistance. NT |
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#5
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi NT
Thanks for the comments so far On 13 May 2006 08:21:49 -0700, wrote: Adrian Brentnall wrote: Hi All Until last week I was using a little (probably 1/3hp) electric motor to power a combination diamond saw / grinder / polisher unit. I guess that the original motor was ex an old washing machine. Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). So - bright idea time ! Saw something on the web about using a cheapie bench grinder as a motor - found one in Homebase, and lo & behold the pulley fitted in place of the grinding wheel. Result ! Sadly not - the new little motor is perfectly happy to spin its own grinding wheels - but refuses to start when faced with the effort of spinning the combination unit - it now sits and buzzes weakly..... darn ! The new thing's rated at 150Watts - which is probably a bit on the light side - but any idea why it'll happily spin up its own wheels but not my combo unit....? Alternatively - what's the chance or fixing the old motor - no magic smoke escaped - so I'm hopeful.... g Some motors deliver little torque during starting, some produce lots. So not all motors are suited to all loads. So it seems. I even thought I'd get smart (always a mistake!) Tried fitting the pulley to my older bench grinder - it's rated at 300W rather than the 150W that the new ones have. Still no joy - it just won't start under load.. Total rank bodge time: 1. wrap string 10 times round the driveshaft, ensuring that each layer is firmly on top of previous layers so the string grips. Pull string medium-hard at same time as throwing the switch. Very crude but effective. Didn't actually try with the string - but spinning the grinding wheels by hand didn't do it - it refused to pick up.. 2. If a washing machine motor has a shorted winding, running it in series with another load will get it going. Now and then you'll find it wont self start unless turned, if it stopped on the dead spot. Unfortunately this bodge cant be used in a washing machine, as the motor must start many times per wash cycle without manual assistance. NT I don't really want to have to 'kick-start' this one either g Some photos at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm if you have a moment... I'm wondering... looks as if it might have a starter capacitor - but I can't see it at the moment - guessing that it might be mounted beneath the paxolin panel with the mains connections on... Guessing further - looks as if I need to undo the long bolts that hold the two end castings on to get inside - does that sound about right to you ?? Despite having played and worked around electric & electronics all my life I've never really got up close & personal with the innards of one of these before - and don't want to withdraw the two long bolts just for it all to go 'ping' and bits fly everywhere...... Thanks in advance Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#6
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Mains motors in the workshop
"Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote in message ... HI Roger Thanks for the reply On Sat, 13 May 2006 15:51:21 +0100, "Roger Mills" wrote: In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote: Hi All Until last week I was using a little (probably 1/3hp) electric motor to power a combination diamond saw / grinder / polisher unit. I guess that the original motor was ex an old washing machine. Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). So - bright idea time ! Saw something on the web about using a cheapie bench grinder as a motor - found one in Homebase, and lo & behold the pulley fitted in place of the grinding wheel. Result ! Sadly not - the new little motor is perfectly happy to spin its own grinding wheels - but refuses to start when faced with the effort of spinning the combination unit - it now sits and buzzes weakly..... darn ! The new thing's rated at 150Watts - which is probably a bit on the light side - but any idea why it'll happily spin up its own wheels but not my combo unit....? Alternatively - what's the chance or fixing the old motor - no magic smoke escaped - so I'm hopeful.... g Does the original motor have a starter capacitor? If so, there's a fair chance that that's failed, and gone something akin to short circuit. If you replace that, the motor will probably work. I've uploaded some photos of the motor - they're at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm The little cover over the electrical connections has a schematic which seems to show a capacitor - would this be the starter capacitor ? If so - do you know where it is ? - do I have to undo the long bolts which appear to hold the two end castings together - and then does it all become clear ??? g (or do I end up with a bag of bits g) Thanks in advance Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply Looking at the top picture, is that a shiny wire link between terminals z and a at the top? If so then its wired as the RHS of the 3rd picture. This is marked TS 43-58. I assume that this will be stamped on the motor nameplate. I suspect then that (assuming both above correct) that it will use a start winding with a centrifugal (spelling??) switch. I guess the contacts have gone and not powering up the start winding. Follow that bit of metal coming off the live terminal post, think you may find something there. Hope I have helped a bit! |
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#7
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Mains motors in the workshop
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Adrian Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote: I've uploaded some photos of the motor - they're at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm The little cover over the electrical connections has a schematic which seems to show a capacitor - would this be the starter capacitor ? If so - do you know where it is ? - do I have to undo the long bolts which appear to hold the two end castings together - and then does it all become clear ??? g (or do I end up with a bag of bits g) I think the schematics on that cover plate show two alternative configurations - one with a strap between A and Z (which is what you've got) and one with a capacitor (which would be external if it existed). So it looks as if you haven't got one - so much for that idea! Is there anything readable on the larger plate (curved round the main casing)? -- Cheers, Roger ______ Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks. PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP! |
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#8
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi Roger
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:13:56 +0100, "Roger Mills" wrote: In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote: I've uploaded some photos of the motor - they're at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm The little cover over the electrical connections has a schematic which seems to show a capacitor - would this be the starter capacitor ? If so - do you know where it is ? - do I have to undo the long bolts which appear to hold the two end castings together - and then does it all become clear ??? g (or do I end up with a bag of bits g) I think the schematics on that cover plate show two alternative configurations - one with a strap between A and Z (which is what you've got) and one with a capacitor (which would be external if it existed). So it looks as if you haven't got one - so much for that idea! Oh - bother g I was looking forward to replacing a £1 capacitor and it all bursting into life again..... shucks ! Is there anything readable on the larger plate (curved round the main casing)? Just been out to the workshop.. It reads Crompton Parkinson Insulation Class E BS170 A73 AC Motor Spares Cat A3 No TS4543H BHP 0.166 RPM 1425 Volts 220 / 240 Amps 1.6 PH 1 Hz 50 Rating Cont Don't know if that helps ?? Thanks Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#9
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Mains motors in the workshop
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#10
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi Roger
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:55:44 +0100, "Roger Mills" wrote: In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote: Is there anything readable on the larger plate (curved round the main casing)? Just been out to the workshop.. It reads Crompton Parkinson Insulation Class E BS170 A73 AC Motor Spares Cat A3 No TS4543H BHP 0.166 RPM 1425 Volts 220 / 240 Amps 1.6 PH 1 Hz 50 Rating Cont Don't know if that helps ?? It doesn't give *me* any clues as to its mode of operation, I'm afraid - but I don't claim to be the world's leading expert in these matters. You & me both ! g If you feel like doing a little experiment, you could remove the A-Z strap, and fit a strap between A and S instead - and see whether it works when you tell it to go backwards. It might just use a different set of internal windings in this mode, and they might be ok. Now that's an idea.... good thinking.... I was (mis) reading the diagram on the cover plate as being (left side) rotation one way and (right side) rotation 'tother way - but, on re-reading it, it does advise swapping yellow & blue leads to rotate the other way. Maybe I'll give that a try tomorrow..... (if you hear a loud 'bang' then draw your own conclusions g Could you still use it if it rotated the other way - maybe by fitting the belt in a figure of 8 or something if your machinery minds which way it turns? Oh yes - the motor is mounted on a wooden baseboard - so it can easily be rotated through 180-degrees and all will be fine (until the other winding blows !).. I'll give it a try and report back - many thanks.... You'd think that there would be a fair few of these things kicking about - but a quick trawl through eBay shows very few of them. I did read that modern washing machine motors are not as 'usable' as thes old-fashioned ones, as they need their controller box to be useful.... progress, eh ?? Thanks Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#11
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Some motors deliver little torque during starting, some produce lots. So not all motors are suited to all loads. So it seems. I even thought I'd get smart (always a mistake!) Tried fitting the pulley to my older bench grinder - it's rated at 300W rather than the 150W that the new ones have. Still no joy - it just won't start under load.. that can be bodged around, but I dont have any decent solutions. Total rank bodge time: 1. wrap string 10 times round the driveshaft, ensuring that each layer is firmly on top of previous layers so the string grips. Pull string medium-hard at same time as throwing the switch. Very crude but effective. Didn't actually try with the string - but spinning the grinding wheels by hand didn't do it - it refused to pick up.. the string will give you at least 10x the speed, it may be worth a try. 2. If a washing machine motor has a shorted winding, running it in series with another load will get it going. Now and then you'll find it wont self start unless turned, if it stopped on the dead spot. Unfortunately this bodge cant be used in a washing machine, as the motor must start many times per wash cycle without manual assistance. NT I don't really want to have to 'kick-start' this one either g Some photos at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm if you have a moment... I'm wondering... looks as if it might have a starter capacitor - but I can't see it at the moment - guessing that it might be mounted beneath the paxolin panel with the mains connections on... I doubt it has one by the look of it. A cord grip would be wise. Guessing further - looks as if I need to undo the long bolts that hold the two end castings on to get inside - does that sound about right to you ?? Not really, that would separate bits you dont want to separate. Can you get the curved side cover off? If its a brushed motor that would get you access to brushes, and hopefully you could find some other brushes to replace them. But there's not much else you can do in there, assuming youre not looking to rewind the thing. Despite having played and worked around electric & electronics all my life I've never really got up close & personal with the innards of one of these before - and don't want to withdraw the two long bolts just for it all to go 'ping' and bits fly everywhere...... you would need to be able to put it together again Its probably a wound stator wound rotor brushed universal motor, meaning it has no separate starting circuit and high start torque. If so, attention to brushes may fix it, and string starting wouldnt. But I cant be sure thats the type of beast it is, so the string is worth a go. Its odd the diagram shows a cap tho. NT |
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#12
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Mains motors in the workshop
In message , Adrian
Brentnall writes You'd think that there would be a fair few of these things kicking about - but a quick trawl through eBay shows very few of them. I did read that modern washing machine motors are not as 'usable' as thes old-fashioned ones, as they need their controller box to be useful.... progress, eh ?? You might find that a cheap tumble dryer motor is more what you're looking for. Thanks Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply -- Clint Sharp |
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#13
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Mains motors in the workshop
I had a single phase induction motor of unknown origin that I used to
drive a circular saw. It functioned fine for 25 years until the smoke got out ! But during that 25 years it would regularly do exactly what yours is doing because sawdust got into the centrifugal switch. It was not a sealed motor and on occasions a bit of sawdust would end up between the contacts when the motor was running down and consequently it would go into the 'buzz' mode the next time I started it. Immediate switch off the power. I was fortunate in that I could just push a spring plate through the slots on the motor end with a screwdriver and the problem was solved and away it would go when the power was next applied. In time however the damage to the insulation accumulated such that the smoke got out as I said. The cf switch operated a capacitor fed starter winding. I've now got a 3hp motor out of an old pressure washer which is sealed and has an electronic timer for the starter; interestingly the saw is quite a different load from a pressure pump and the machine ate fuses until I got the timing right. I may be wrong but I think starter caps for cf switched starter windings are smaller than those for constant run ones. Having looked at your pictures, I'm wondering if there is a cf switch under the end plate with 3 screws - I don't think there would be any problems taking off that cover plate and having a look. What I would discourage you from doing is putting poer on to it until you've found the problem as each time you do so you're weakening the insulation in the widings. Replacement may not be so easy as this is a four pole motor to give 1500 revs - most inexpensive motors of this type are 2 pole and hence 3000 revs. At one point Screwfix had motors and I think Machine Mart did too. Rob |
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#14
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Mains motors in the workshop
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#15
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
You'd think that there would be a fair few of these things kicking about - but a quick trawl through eBay shows very few of them. If you need a new on, machinemart have a reasonable selection. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#16
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Mains motors in the workshop
On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:50:47 +0100, Andy Wade
wrote: Bzzzt. It's very clearly a spilt-phase induction motor - the type with an auxiliary starer winding connected via a centrifugal switch (& no capacitor). Tim Morley probably hit the nail on the head a few articles ago, but no-one seems to be listening. Adrian, I think you'll need to strip the motor down and inspect/clean the switch. Take the long through studs out, get the front end-plate off and withdraw the armature from the front, and the rest should be fairly obvious. Alternatively a local rewinds place (see YP) could probably repair it for a lot less than the cost of a new motor. I'd start with the metal cap next to the terminals. Three screws, and much likely to be easy to put back together than taking the motor apart (though it may still come to that). That's about where I'd expect a centrifugal switch to be, too. Thomas Prufer |
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#17
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Mains motors in the workshop
HI Tim
On Sat, 13 May 2006 18:42:40 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE wrote: "Adrian Brentnall" adrian-the papers and the wrote in message ... HI Roger Thanks for the reply On Sat, 13 May 2006 15:51:21 +0100, "Roger Mills" wrote: In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Adrian Brentnall adrian-the papers and the wrote: Hi All Until last week I was using a little (probably 1/3hp) electric motor to power a combination diamond saw / grinder / polisher unit. I guess that the original motor was ex an old washing machine. Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). So - bright idea time ! Saw something on the web about using a cheapie bench grinder as a motor - found one in Homebase, and lo & behold the pulley fitted in place of the grinding wheel. Result ! Sadly not - the new little motor is perfectly happy to spin its own grinding wheels - but refuses to start when faced with the effort of spinning the combination unit - it now sits and buzzes weakly..... darn ! The new thing's rated at 150Watts - which is probably a bit on the light side - but any idea why it'll happily spin up its own wheels but not my combo unit....? Alternatively - what's the chance or fixing the old motor - no magic smoke escaped - so I'm hopeful.... g Does the original motor have a starter capacitor? If so, there's a fair chance that that's failed, and gone something akin to short circuit. If you replace that, the motor will probably work. I've uploaded some photos of the motor - they're at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm The little cover over the electrical connections has a schematic which seems to show a capacitor - would this be the starter capacitor ? If so - do you know where it is ? - do I have to undo the long bolts which appear to hold the two end castings together - and then does it all become clear ??? g (or do I end up with a bag of bits g) Thanks in advance Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply Looking at the top picture, is that a shiny wire link between terminals z and a at the top? Yes indeed - well spotted g If so then its wired as the RHS of the 3rd picture. This is marked TS 43-58. I assume that this will be stamped on the motor nameplate. Last night in the dark I read it as TS4543 - but the nameplate's been bashed about a bit so I'll take a closer look today in daylight ! I suspect then that (assuming both above correct) that it will use a start winding with a centrifugal (spelling??) switch. I guess the contacts have gone and not powering up the start winding. Follow that bit of metal coming off the live terminal post, think you may find something there. Right ! When the motor worked, there was a definite 'clunk' as it spun up to speed - that would have been the centrifugal switch, perhaps ?? Hope I have helped a bit! Yes thanks ! Now I need to get 'inside' this motor to see what's going on..... The only obvious things I can see holding it all together are the four long bolts - unless there's something clever holding the covers on underneath the mounting feet - I'll have another look & report back... Many thanks - I missed your post last night and it wasn't unti some kind soul pointed it out that I read it..... Thanks Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#18
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Mains motors in the workshop
HI Andy
On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:50:47 +0100, Andy Wade wrote: wrote: the string will give you at least 10x the speed, it may be worth a try. Sounds flipping dangerous to me. Just about do-able - but not really how I'd like it to work g Its probably a wound stator wound rotor brushed universal motor, meaning it has no separate starting circuit and high start torque. Bzzzt. It's very clearly a spilt-phase induction motor - the type with an auxiliary starer winding connected via a centrifugal switch (& no capacitor). Tim Morley probably hit the nail on the head a few articles ago, but no-one seems to be listening. I'd missed Tim's post until you pointed it out - just read it - makes sense - thanks.. Adrian, I think you'll need to strip the motor down and inspect/clean the switch. Take the long through studs out, get the front end-plate off and withdraw the armature from the front, and the rest should be fairly obvious. Alternatively a local rewinds place (see YP) could probably repair it for a lot less than the cost of a new motor. OK - I'll have a look. As I just replied to Tim, there was a definite 'clunk' as it started (when it worked) - so that bears out the centrifugal switch theory. The motor was very second-hand from a friend - think it cost me a tenner - so if a cost-effective 'DIY' repair is possible then that'd be great. I use this kit for slicing up & grinding / polishing my kiln-fused glass work - and I've got another 'fair' coming up next weekend - so if it's possible to get it flying again sooner that'd be great.... I'll take a look and report back - many thanks ! Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#19
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Mains motors in the workshop
HI Thomas
Thanks for the comments On Sun, 14 May 2006 08:17:31 +0200, Thomas Prufer wrote: On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:50:47 +0100, Andy Wade wrote: Bzzzt. It's very clearly a spilt-phase induction motor - the type with an auxiliary starer winding connected via a centrifugal switch (& no capacitor). Tim Morley probably hit the nail on the head a few articles ago, but no-one seems to be listening. Adrian, I think you'll need to strip the motor down and inspect/clean the switch. Take the long through studs out, get the front end-plate off and withdraw the armature from the front, and the rest should be fairly obvious. Alternatively a local rewinds place (see YP) could probably repair it for a lot less than the cost of a new motor. I'd start with the metal cap next to the terminals. Three screws, and much likely to be easy to put back together than taking the motor apart (though it may still come to that). That's about where I'd expect a centrifugal switch to be, too. I did quickly whip this cover off - all I could see was the end of a bearing and 3 or 4 felt pads delivering oil to it. I'll take another look in a bit before I start the big dismantling effort ! Thanks Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#20
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi Rob
On 13 May 2006 15:50:21 -0700, "robgraham" wrote: I had a single phase induction motor of unknown origin that I used to drive a circular saw. It functioned fine for 25 years until the smoke got out ! g you'd think that Screwfix would supply a can of magic smoke - so's you could 'refill' things like this ?? But during that 25 years it would regularly do exactly what yours is doing because sawdust got into the centrifugal switch. It was not a sealed motor and on occasions a bit of sawdust would end up between the contacts when the motor was running down and consequently it would go into the 'buzz' mode the next time I started it. Immediate switch off the power. I was fortunate in that I could just push a spring plate through the slots on the motor end with a screwdriver and the problem was solved and away it would go when the power was next applied. OK - interesting In time however the damage to the insulation accumulated such that the smoke got out as I said. The cf switch operated a capacitor fed starter winding. Right I've now got a 3hp motor out of an old pressure washer which is sealed and has an electronic timer for the starter; interestingly the saw is quite a different load from a pressure pump and the machine ate fuses until I got the timing right. I'm a bit cross with myself over this 'bench grinder as a motor' thing - I was concerned that the pulley would fit on the shaft - never thought that the darn thing wouldn't have enough torque to start up ! Ah well - they were only 12.99 each g When we get moved to our new house I shall mount them all on a workbench - the old one and the (two) new ones - won't that look impressive g I may be wrong but I think starter caps for cf switched starter windings are smaller than those for constant run ones. Having looked at your pictures, I'm wondering if there is a cf switch under the end plate with 3 screws - I don't think there would be any problems taking off that cover plate and having a look. Don't think so - but I'll take another look in a mo. What I would discourage you from doing is putting poer on to it until you've found the problem as each time you do so you're weakening the insulation in the widings. OK Replacement may not be so easy as this is a four pole motor to give 1500 revs - most inexpensive motors of this type are 2 pole and hence 3000 revs. Spoeed isn't a big problem - I've got a pair of stepped pulleys - so I can get the right speed regardless of the motor speed (within reason !) At one point Screwfix had motors and I think Machine Mart did too. Thanks - if all else fails.... g Regards Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#21
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Mains motors in the workshop
Don't know if this will help or not.
TS 43-58 is the "motor frame number". Just a spec that can be referenced for; bolt hole spacing, distance from shaft centerline to bottom of frame, housing length etc. Rating Cont.. Is just the "duty cycle". It can be run continuosly at it's rated output without cooking itself. If you multiply the Amps X Volts you'll get the Wattage. As you can see your new motor is only about one-half as strong as your old motor. Old evaporative coolers (swamp coolers) are a good source for the type of motor your're describing, as are clothes dryers. I don't know if you guys use evap coolers over there, as I'm in the US. |
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#22
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote :
Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). If there is no sign of damage/ burnt windings on the motor, then I would guess that it is the starting capacitor which has failed. The grinder motor which you bought to try to replace it, doesn't have anything like as much torque as the capacitor start motor you had - hence its difficulty at startup. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
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#23
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Mains motors in the workshop
cbruce wrote:
Don't know if this will help or not. TS 43-58 is the "motor frame number". Just a spec that can be referenced for; bolt hole spacing, distance from shaft centerline to bottom of frame, housing length etc. thats a new one on me, how does that work? Rating Cont.. Is just the "duty cycle". It can be run continuosly at it's rated output without cooking itself. If you multiply the Amps X Volts you'll get the Wattage. not so As you can see your new motor is only about one-half as strong as your old motor. Old evaporative coolers (swamp coolers) are a good source for the type of motor your're describing, as are clothes dryers. I don't know if you guys use evap coolers over there, as I'm in the US. unfortunately no, theyre no use in our climate. Drier motors are also no use, for a different reason. NT |
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#24
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:50:47 +0100, Andy Wade wrote: wrote: the string will give you at least 10x the speed, it may be worth a try. Sounds flipping dangerous to me. Just about do-able - but not really how I'd like it to work g It would only be dangerous if you did something really stupid like wind the string round your finger. Its a standard method of starting generators. The main point of the string test is to see if you have some kind of starting fault but it runs ok once its got some speed. Its far quicker and easier than taking it apart, still not knowing if it'll work aftewards. Secondarily, it also gives you an immediately working system you can do your glasswork on. Testing the motor does not 'weaken' the insulation, as long as you dont leave it powered stallled for long enough to start to burn. NT |
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#25
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote: Hi All Until last week I was using a little (probably 1/3hp) electric motor to power a combination diamond saw / grinder / polisher unit. I guess that the original motor was ex an old washing machine. I can't believe that you got so many replies for a thread about a motor that has obviously seen better decades. Why on earth you thought youy could replace it with the tiny little thing required to spin a grinding wheel is beyond me. Get another motor, or have that one rewound. |
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#26
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Mains motors in the workshop
HI Harry
On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:34:10 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote: Adrian Brentnall wrote : Anyway - last week, said motor gave a gasp and died. Now all it will do is buzz weakly - and won't turn - mains lights in the workshop dim while it's buzzing (not a good sign, I think). If there is no sign of damage/ burnt windings on the motor, then I would guess that it is the starting capacitor which has failed. I did take it apart this morning - all surprisingly easy - just undo the four long bolts and the two end caps came off, complete with bearings, and the rotor slid out. Far too easy !g The centrifugal switch seemed to be operating OK - so I treated the contacts to a bit of attentions with some wet and dry paper, then a quick squirt of contact cleaner - and - lo and behold - on reassembling it everything worked first time !! Brilliant ! The grinder motor which you bought to try to replace it, doesn't have anything like as much torque as the capacitor start motor you had - hence its difficulty at startup. Fair enough - now I just have to think of a reason why I need three grinders ! Thinking about it - one would be very handy as the 'power souce' behind a flexible drive thingy that would take little grindstones, wire-brushes etc - must do some looking around..... more toys ! Thanks all Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#27
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi
On 14 May 2006 03:18:02 -0700, wrote: Adrian Brentnall wrote: On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:50:47 +0100, Andy Wade wrote: wrote: the string will give you at least 10x the speed, it may be worth a try. Sounds flipping dangerous to me. Just about do-able - but not really how I'd like it to work g It would only be dangerous if you did something really stupid like wind the string round your finger. Its a standard method of starting generators. The main point of the string test is to see if you have some kind of starting fault but it runs ok once its got some speed. Its far quicker and easier than taking it apart, still not knowing if it'll work aftewards. Secondarily, it also gives you an immediately working system you can do your glasswork on. Testing the motor does not 'weaken' the insulation, as long as you dont leave it powered stallled for long enough to start to burn. Actually - some good news ! Took the motor apart (surprisingly easy !) - and cleaned the contacts on the centrifugal switch. Didn't think to take an electrical measurement 'before' - but after cleaning the resistance changed as the switch closed .... A couple of updated photos of the innards at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm in case anybody's interested... g Reassembled the thing and it fired up 1st time - grrrrrreeeat ! Many thanks for the advice - looks like we're back in business Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#28
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi Owain
On Sun, 14 May 2006 12:01:20 +0100, Owain wrote: Adrian Brentnall wrote: I had a single phase induction motor of unknown origin that I used to drive a circular saw. It functioned fine for 25 years until the smoke got out ! g you'd think that Screwfix would supply a can of magic smoke - so's you could 'refill' things like this ?? It's probably manufacturer-specific magic smoke that's needed though - generic smoke simply isn't good enough. Doh ! - hadn't thought of that..... g Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#29
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Mains motors in the workshop
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Actually - some good news ! Took the motor apart (surprisingly easy !) - and cleaned the contacts on the centrifugal switch. Didn't think to take an electrical measurement 'before' - but after cleaning the resistance changed as the switch closed .... A couple of updated photos of the innards at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm in case anybody's interested... g Reassembled the thing and it fired up 1st time - grrrrrreeeat ! Many thanks for the advice - looks like we're back in business Adrian good job, another 40 years of service coming up. NT |
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#30
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Mains motors in the workshop
Hi
On 14 May 2006 05:27:54 -0700, wrote: Adrian Brentnall wrote: Actually - some good news ! Took the motor apart (surprisingly easy !) - and cleaned the contacts on the centrifugal switch. Didn't think to take an electrical measurement 'before' - but after cleaning the resistance changed as the switch closed .... A couple of updated photos of the innards at http://www.inspired-glass.co.uk/electric-motor.htm in case anybody's interested... g Reassembled the thing and it fired up 1st time - grrrrrreeeat ! Many thanks for the advice - looks like we're back in business Adrian good job, another 40 years of service coming up. Lord no ! - I wanna retire before then g Can't play with the saw-grinder now - been press-ganged into weeding the polytunnel ! Thanks Adrian ======return email munged================= take out the papers and the trash to reply |
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#31
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Mains motors in the workshop
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#32
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Mains motors in the workshop
On 14 May 2006 03:27:28 -0700, "Weatherlawyer"
I can't believe that you got so many replies for a thread about a motor that has obviously seen better decades. Is this another case of newness disease? That motor is the best option in all every respect. NT |
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#33
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Mains motors in the workshop
Who all enjoyed doing so with the thought that it will be their turn
next time to ask a questiona and get a thread full of replies (I hope - always the bridsmaid with just one posting and no answers!) Rob |
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