Hi All,

We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me, and
I don't think the company has done the work properly.

What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
"oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar

Cheers!!
Raj

abd08 wrote:
Hi All,

We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
and I don't think the company has done the work properly.

What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
"oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar

Cheers!!
Raj

Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
bridge. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Is it galvanised or painted?

Is it bolted together or welded?

Can you tell exactly where the rust originates? The bolts/welds, on
treads on ground or wall attachment points?

Was it supplied fully finished or primer only?

abd08 wrote:
Hi All,

We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me, and
I don't think the company has done the work properly.


It may well be normal.

What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
"oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar


I think you do have to repaint every year.

You might want to go over it and remove all old paint and use a chromate
type primer on it though. It may be that it wasnt given a decent set of
primer in the first place.

Cheers!!
Raj

Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
bridge. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Every 20 years now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_r...e_Forth_Bridge

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
abd08 wrote:
Hi All,

We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
and I don't think the company has done the work properly.

What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape, such
that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z, this
isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me off with
"oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year" or similar

Cheers!!
Raj

Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
bridge. ;-)

Urban Myth

MBQ

wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
abd08 wrote:
Hi All,

We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
and I don't think the company has done the work properly.

What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape,
such that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z,
this isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me
off with "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year"
or similar

Cheers!!
Raj

Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the
forth bridge. ;-)

Urban Myth

MBQ

Do ya reckon?

Paint will blister (more so on iron) from the suns heat which will then be
enough for rain(water)to penetrate below the surface and find its way onto
the steel,this will then start lifting the paint more heavily as time
progresses.

Hence why maintenance of the outside of a property has to be maintained
where and when its needed every year to keep it in good condition.

I'll stick with my opinion,thanks

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote in message
. uk...
wrote:
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
abd08 wrote:
Hi All,

We had our fire escape newly installed about a year ago, and it is
already starting to rust in places. This doesn't seem normal to me,
and I don't think the company has done the work properly.

What do you think I need to check physically on the fire escape,
such that I can basically tell the guy "you should have done X,Y,Z,
this isn't good enough etc etc", and so he doesn't try and fob me
off with "oh, didn't you know you have to repaint these every year"
or similar

Cheers!!
Raj

Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the
forth bridge. ;-)

Urban Myth

MBQ

Do ya reckon?

Paint will blister (more so on iron) from the suns heat which will then be
enough for rain(water)to penetrate below the surface and find its way onto
the steel,this will then start lifting the paint more heavily as time
progresses.

Hence why maintenance of the outside of a property has to be maintained
where and when its needed every year to keep it in good condition.

I'll stick with my opinion,thanks

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite



I recently saw a programme on TV; about ..... the Forth Rail Bridge !
Apparently it's in the process of being encased in a 'plastic ' coating.

A moments googling ( actually 0.22 Seconds) revealed
;-http://www.forthbridges.org.uk/railbridgemain.htm

quote
The coating system employed for the steelwork requires blast cleaning to
bare metal; an application of zinc based primer to prevent corrosion (35
microns); a glass flake epoxy intermediate coat providing a barrier (400
microns); and, a polyurethane gloss top coat to give an attractive "Forth
Bridge Red" finish (35 microns) on all of its estimated 400,000m². This
system which has been tried and tested in an offshore environment is
designed to give a 20*year life which means the bridge may be free of its
legendary painters after 2009 for a short while!
/quote

So; it's not an urban legend that the rail bridge needed an permanent team
of painters to maintain it's surface -even if it was longer than annual
visits between coats; but it will be an urban legend after 2009.

--

Brian

The Natural Philosopher wrote:



I think you do have to repaint every year.



Wrong! Please read the posting by Brian Sharrock. He is quite right. I
once worked for the company that supplies that system and, providing
prep is meticulas, 20 years in a salt laden atmosphere is quite normal.

Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.

Bookworm wrote:

Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.

On a thread hijack......

what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint a
non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?

Ours is suffering badly where the previous owners used to bodge it up
with normal gloss paint once in a while.

and... :¬) what would be the best method of preperation to halt
existing rust?

I am thinking a compressed air "needle gun" for initial attack of paint
& rust flakes.

'tis a job for this summer.
:¬(

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://Water-Rower.co.uk - Worlds best prices on the Worlds best Rower.

Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:
Bookworm wrote:

Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.

On a thread hijack......

what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint
a non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?

Ours is suffering badly where the previous owners used to bodge it up
with normal gloss paint once in a while.

and... :¬) what would be the best method of preperation to halt
existing rust?


For painting iron/steel exterior items I've always used "Hammerite" paint.
As for halting rust...hmmm! thats a case of how bad its got a hold? for
surface rust I used a bottle of stuff from a car accesory shop, wasn't
cheap and came in a quarter of a pint plastic bottle,for the life of me I
cant remember the name but it contained a chemical that nuetralised the
rust with a protective finish for painting over.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Pet @ wrote:
On a thread hijack......

what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint a
non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?

Finnegan's "Brown Velvet" then some sort of gloss.


Ours is suffering badly where the previous owners used to bodge it up
with normal gloss paint once in a while.

and... :¬) what would be the best method of preperation to halt
existing rust?

I am thinking a compressed air "needle gun" for initial attack of paint
& rust flakes.

Wire cup brush on 9" angle grinder. Use a knotted cup brush to get rid
of heavy deposits.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Pet @ wrote:
On a thread hijack......
what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint
a non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?

Finnegan's "Brown Velvet" then some sort of gloss.

Sorry, that's now called "No. 1".

The message
from "The3rd Earl Of Derby" contains these words:

Outside iron does have to be painted every year...take a look at the forth
bridge. ;-)

Or galvanised. Might be well worth it!

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

The message
from ;¬)" contains these
words:

what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint a
non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?

I'd be tempted to take it off and get it galvanised.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:15:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

You might want to go over it and remove all old paint and use a chromate
type primer on it though.

Where are you going to even _find_ a chromate primer these days ? Apart
from being horribly toxic, they're also far from the best choice for
steel.

A fire escape ought to have been galvanised to begin with. If it wasn't,
then it needs a good coat of zinc-based primer (Davids 182, or some
others) onto clean bare metal.

Pet @ www.gymratz.co.uk ;¬) wrote:
Bookworm wrote:

Thats why North Sea Oil Rigs aren't painted with Dulux.

On a thread hijack......

what would you (or anyone else) recommend for the best stuff to paint a
non-galvanised, rusting, outside steel balcony with then Bookworm. ?

Ours is suffering badly where the previous owners used to bodge it up
with normal gloss paint once in a while.

and... :¬) what would be the best method of preperation to halt
existing rust?

I am thinking a compressed air "needle gun" for initial attack of paint
& rust flakes.

'tis a job for this summer.
:¬(

Chromate primer, or zinc primer.

Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
oxide into iron chromate - a tougher proposition by half..then maybe a
zinc loaded primer to pseudo galvanize.

Ideally you would then use something like a tow pack epoxy paint al la
marine (yacht) paint..

Cleaning is simply down to getting everything loose off. - wire
brush,sandblasting, Nitromors etc.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:15:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

You might want to go over it and remove all old paint and use a chromate
type primer on it though.

Where are you going to even _find_ a chromate primer these days ? Apart
from being horribly toxic, they're also far from the best choice for
steel.

I was thinking of anti-rust treatments like Jenolite

A fire escape ought to have been galvanised to begin with. If it wasn't,
then it needs a good coat of zinc-based primer (Davids 182, or some
others) onto clean bare metal.

Not so good if its already corroded.

Agreed galvanisation is the best starting point, but f its been drilled
or welded or assembles with non galvanised bolts, or non steel ones...

To those who think that Hammerite works, think again. Utter rubbish the
one time I tried it.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Pet @ wrote:
On a thread hijack......



Wire cup brush on 9" angle grinder. Use a knotted cup brush to get rid
of heavy deposits.


Just polishes the rust. Gritblast to SA2.5 is only way to remove rust.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
oxide into iron chromate

Iron phosphate, isn't it?

Bookworm wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Pet @ wrote:
On a thread hijack......

Wire cup brush on 9" angle grinder. Use a knotted cup brush to get rid
of heavy deposits.

Just polishes the rust.

Not IME.


Gritblast to SA2.5 is only way to remove rust.

Well, grit blasting is probably the best idea. It depends on how much
the OP has to do.... it might cost a few hundred, I'd imagine. It would
get all the fiddly bits done nicely...

Chris Bacon wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
oxide into iron chromate

Iron phosphate, isn't it?
Ah.. you may well be right, in which case I have been talking ********..

On 10 May 2006 10:19:36 +0200, Chris Bacon wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
oxide into iron chromate

Iron phosphate, isn't it?

Phosphides and tannates. At least you get tannates if you use the good
stuff (usually white) rather than Jenolite or plain phosphoric acid.

Not bad as a preparation of existing rust you can't remove, but it has
limited resistance to rusting in the future. In particular it doesn't
have the electrolytic protection that zinc coating (plate or paint)
offers.

Chromates are useful for aluminium (the yellow-green stuff) but they're
horribly toxic.

On 10 May 2006 00:50:58 -0700, "Bookworm" wrote:

Wire cup brush on 9" angle grinder. Use a knotted cup brush to get rid
of heavy deposits.

Just polishes the rust. Gritblast to SA2.5 is only way to remove rust.

A wire brush on an angle grinder is a lot more effective than a slower
one on a drill. But use a good quality knotted brush, a thick apron and
a faceshield (not just goggles) or you get peppered.

Grit blasting is certainly the best, and the only practical way to get
into the corners - but a portable rig is messy and far from cheap to
hire. Even a larger "hobby" compressor would struggle with this sort of
work too.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 10 May 2006 10:19:36 +0200, Chris Bacon wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ive had best success with stuff like 'jenolite' which IIRC turns iron
oxide into iron chromate
Iron phosphate, isn't it?

Phosphides and tannates. At least you get tannates if you use the good
stuff (usually white) rather than Jenolite or plain phosphoric acid.

Not bad as a preparation of existing rust you can't remove, but it has
limited resistance to rusting in the future. In particular it doesn't
have the electrolytic protection that zinc coating (plate or paint)
offers.

Chromates are useful for aluminium (the yellow-green stuff) but they're
horribly toxic.

I've used jenolite FIRST to stabilise the rust, then a zinc primer.

Andy Dingley wrote:

Grit blasting is certainly the best, and the only practical way to get
into the corners - but a portable rig is messy and far from cheap to
hire. Even a larger "hobby" compressor would struggle with this sort of
work too.

Having used a grit blaster attachment many many moons ago, I have
already ruled that out.

The Balcony thing is just too big and fiddly.
The amount of grit required and the mess on the floor would be a
nightmare. It's about 9m x 3m. See following
http://www.gymratz.co.uk/pete/newhouse/back.jpg

No-one has commented on the use of a needle gun.
I was thinking something like the following
http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=30118&t=zoom

Or buy one along with a compressor.
:¬)



--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
http://Water-Rower.co.uk - Worlds best prices on the Worlds best Rower.